PTS Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance Improvements

Dracane

Gobsta wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

AsheronRealaidain wrote: »

Sooo will Curse go back to being able to scale with Thaumaturge now or ??? Why do you guys want to destroy one of the most important magicka sorc skills in our rotation? 3.5 seconds is perfect. This change makes no sense at all.

You also made destro ults do more damage with a lightning staff? 5% damage nerf but an 8% AoE buff with lightning?

STOP PUSHING PETS.

So confused.

Curse is still not affected by thaumaturge, I just

Dracane wrote: »

Haunting curses approach would fit daedric prey so much better.
Velocious curse should remain as it is.

So is it safe to say from your findings Curse got a blanket nerf?

Are there any positives that you can forsee? (besides curse being on the back bar if that is even a positive).

I can't. 6 seconds is very beneifical for daedric prey.
But this doesn't fit velocious curse at all.

Glarin

Y u do dis? Y u touch curse?

Akimbro

@Glarin wrote: »

Y u do dis? Y u touch curse?

Because it was in a good place. Things in good places don't last very long here

Potenza

Please remove the Haunting Curse change. It is not understood why it was changed - really, did someone complain? You know, its not just pvp that it hurts, its gonna hurt the pve'rs too. 6 seconds for the first explosion and another 6 seconds for the second? In pvp the second one in 12 seconds never gets off and is moot because the fights long over so its just a total nerf on the first explosion. In pve the DPS loss is going to be huge over time fighting a long boss fight. This was just a bad idea.

WuffyCerulei

I am happy with the changes to the pets, as they've been kind of unloved. However, the drop in Ultimate storage will severely affect sorcs who use Overload. Many magicka sorcerers who run vMA use Overload and need the higher end of Ultimate to run it.
Also, there was no need to change Velocious Curse. Its affect was fine and dandy, and yes, it is the most used morph of Daedric Curse. In the time Haunting Curse would go off, a person could throw out about 4 Velocious Curses, thus doing double the damage in roughly the same amount of time. The Haunting Curse change should instead go to Daedric Prey, as that morph is almost NEVER used. Pets, especially in PvP, don't last long, so the damage bonus of Daedric Prey would rarely be used.
After the drastic shield nerfs magicka sorcs got early on in 2016, the last thing they need is a nerf to one of their main damage-dealing skills.

Hexys

If I would be in charge of magicka sorcerer I would make these changes to the class skills itself:

1. Hardened ward to 8 seconds
2. Crystal fragment proc cost reduction from 50% to 25%
3. Streak cost increase fatigue from 50% to 25% or from 4 seconds to 2 seconds
4. Ball of lightning removes snares/roots
5. Deadric minefield will have a cast time instead of instant cast
6. Velicious Curse on 3.5 seconds as it is on live
7. Dark Deal increased cost fatigue of 50% with a 4 seconds cooldown

For the rest the sorcerer class is doing just fine!

Potenza

I need to point out how huge of the loss in pve this Haunting Curse is going to cause in case some of you don't realize.

The way it was while fighting a boss you would cast VC then wait 3.5 seconds or listen for the explosion then immediately cast it again. It was part of the rotation and you would get two explosions in 7 seconds. With this change you only get two explosions every 12 seconds - this is a 5 second loss which will add up to a ton of dps lost at the end of a boss fight.
That's a 5 second loss per rotation! If you have a dps counter - don't share it in chat - its gonna look bad.

yell0wdart

I can't understand the reasoning behind the Velocious Curse and ultimate resource max nerfs. I love this game, but some of these changes are completely non-sensical. It's getting more and more difficult to justify my ESO Plus subs, if that money's just being spent on ridiculous changes that nobody's asking for.

lygerseye

Just weighing in with the rest of the avalanche of opinion: leave Velicious Curse alone. The proposed change into Haunted Curse will only encourage people to remove it from their rotations. Committing 12 seconds of time to a single target is not an effective way to play. Even if you could stack the echo, it's still too much time to devote to a single target, especially in PVP.

STEVIL

overload (ulti max) i am ok with. not sure any other ulti can run instantly over and over as long as ulti exists? Can i run elemental rage again as soon as it ends if i started with 1000ulti? Alternatively, allow ulti to 1000 but put in a cooldown after 250 ulti is burned in overload.

Frost: i like the idea but i can agree with some comments that the taunt should be added to say the drain or clench.

Curse: not fond of the change. dont think it results in a functional morph. if you want to get rid of the 3.5s variant do something else.
1 - make veloc curse an instant effect with adjusted damage and no aoe - the oft desired sorc spammable.
2 - remove the aoe and replace it with a DOT on the target from the first casting to the end hit. just divide the aoe over the first 5 seconds for instance but only vs the prime target.
3 - Make it still 6s but a much larger burst area
4- target suffers a minor force style debuff taking more crit damage while its up.

lotsa options.

more to come.

FriedEggSandwich

Turning velocious curse into a 12s dot with 2 ticks is a terrible idea, what were you thinking?!
Reducing the ultimate limit is a terrible idea, what were you thinking?!
Thanks for the atro buff.

covenant_merchant

Guys, do you think they will listen though ? Personally I'll never get past the Anger stage, but when have they ever listened to feedback on sorcerers. Them pushing pets should give you a good idea that they don't care.

They haven't nerfed destro ulti per se, they haven't done any reasonable thing to procs, and specifically tremorscale, and yet they chose to ruin the magicka sorc class and push it towards either zergballs or pokemon trainer builds. I mean curse doesn't impact zergball play, you slot blockade / impulse/encase instead. It impacts players who are trying to find solo/small group non-laggy fights. Great way to ruin that ZOS.

In before every sorc out there will run in raid groups, and Mage's salty tears will be seen all over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-IACAVyjOo

*cough* hypocrite *cough*

Joy_Division

Normally I don't like beating a dead horse, but in this case it is necessary.

The whole point of the Velocious Curse morph was to shorten the duration. I do not main a sorc and while I will acknowledge the 3.5 second cast time made for a sucession of potentially dangerous bursts because it is unblockable, I did not feel this was ever too strong or that I lacked the tools to defend against it. If anything, with the shield nerf, I'd almost argue that sorcerer's need that quick potential burst.

FriedEggSandwich

Joy_Division wrote: »

Normally I don't like beating a dead horse, but in this case it is necessary.

The whole point of the Velocious Curse morph was to shorten the duration. I do not main a sorc and while I will acknowledge the 3.5 second cast time made for a sucession of potentially dangerous bursts because it is unblockable, I did not feel this was ever too strong or that I lacked the tools to defend against it. If anything, with the shield nerf, I'd almost argue that sorcerer's need that quick potential burst.

I agree with you, but just wanted to elaborate by saying it's only been unblockable since the last patch though, and that change was out of the blue albeit welcome. If they thought that change made it too strong I'd rather it just went back to being blockable again. It's so strange that they should buff it in one patch and nerf it more in the next. No other skill I'm aware of has had such hasty balancing despite plenty needing it.

jlboozer

Shield duration should be At least 10 sec, 6 sec is too short

Icarus42

Without velocious curse 3.5 you have effectively destroyed the duel wield sorc.
We were already on the ropes and you nerfed our damage output by a third with this, this I dont even know. I mean I was hoping it was a typo or some silly joke!! What is the point of it, to make it easier for people to weave it into their rotations in pve or something?? What is the point of the second tick when you are already dead waiting 6 seconds for the first one to go off!!
I just want to know the reasoning behind this because I am just blown away that this idea was even considered in the first place. I mean what are we supposed to do now make a pet build or join the destruction staff movement in favor of any of the native sorc skills? Or is it that you want people to switch over to stamina or leave? Do you know how much time and effort we put into making these builds in the first place? Crafting two sharpened legendary swords farming etc. is no easy feat, and with one fell swoop boom sorry you need to make a different build again? Sorc skills were already in a bad state as far as diversity as I stated above you only left us a few options. If this makes it through to live I will say so long and thanks for all the fish, r.i.p DW SORC xoxoxoxo

there i got that out been bothering me all day

Icarus42

People need to get involved and protest this. There I am done.

Icarus42

One more thing, just figured out my new sorc build, here it is



https://youtu.be/RBeBwIzwpeE

Mettaricana

Un nerf hurricaine was uneeded

Make bound armaments and armor a slotted affect and activating them gives minor brut and sorcery like 20 secs

AshTal

Curse now sucks - I think its clear that we all went for 3.5 Velocious Curse because pet damage is crap. The bonus to pets while nice the clanfear has always been a tank not a damage dealer - no one uses pet damage to win battles if you tried you would be beating a normal mob for 3 hours before it simply vanished. I still think Pets will suck in PvP.

Pets are still a good way to cripple our versatility because we need them on both bars - while this is in place we go from having 10 slots to having 6 (don't count ultimate's) Pets have to give more given what they take up.

I just don't see how these changes can be called balanced, the problem has been stamina proc set builds in PvP and there is nothing being done for sorcs to make them able to compete.

Micah123

ZOS. Do Not Let The Change To Curse Go Live. DONT DO IT. Why change it. What's the point. Show me a clear reason a skill that has been unchanged since release (other than becoming unblockable) now needs to be changed. People aren't complaining about curse. Who thought of this idea. I'd love to hear a legitimate explanation of the thinking behind this. That way we (The customer, in my case subscribing customer) can explain why you reasoning is flawed.

People are complaining about proc set stacking, heavy armor, and your joke of a change to DK dragon blood. No one was looking for a fix to curse because it isn't broken or OP.

Stop ruining the things that are working and balanced and start fixing the things that are clearly over/under preforming.

Had to say something so at least I know when ZOS doesn't revert this change I will be at peace with ending my subscription.

JKith

Three things:
1- Overload nerf is TOO much. Reduce it to 750 or 800. Going down to 500 is WAY too much.
2- Not sure why curse has to be destroyed, it was fine, it was not OP and an integral part of a lot of builds..
3- Good destro changes, I like those. Especially the frost tank, its new and fun.

So bottom line.

1 - If you feel the need to change ultimate, change it to 750 and NOT 500,... 500 completely destroys overload,... while 750 nerfs it.
2 - Leave curse unchanged.

FriedEggSandwich

As this is a feedback thread, and might potentially be read by devs, I thought it might be appropriate to outline why I will never use pets no matter how viable they become. I simply don't want to micromanage AI in the chaotic open world pvp. Simple as that; it isn't a playstyle I enjoy. I'm sure there are other players who feel the same. I want pets to be viable for the players who do want to use them, but I don't want to see all other class skills reduced to crap to try to encourage pet use among those who don't use them. I've been a sorc main since launch but I will switch class before I use pets in pvp.

gibous

Curse rekt. Pets buffed. PFFT!

Sorcs have no dots or debuffs to speak of. Sorc is a class designed around timing high direct damage. Look at frags, the timing is RNG for a procced frag. Look at curse, it pops after several seconds - and look at fury which has a timing component.

Stop pushing the pets - or make them more interesting and skill-based. Let me summon a kamikaze twilight, not requiring a toggle, and then let me activate it to fly into my target for burst damage. I don't hate the idea of pets, I hate how they work. They are ticklers, they tickle the enemy. They are counter to the sorc design. They are counter to engaging play - as is the new curse. It's like, OK run the pets, run the curse. That leaves you with like 2 abilities to actively cast. LOL WHY! You think I can't keep uptime on curse? You think I'm playing sorc with one hand or my feet or something?

People want to control their characters they don't want toggle-and-forget. Or make the pets work like the nightblade's shade. Just require 1 slot and have to be re-cast if they die or expire. Uptime awareness involves much more interesting and rewarding play.

Delete haunting, restore velocious!

CadaCosa

Do NOT change Velocious Curse.
Leave it alone please.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

leepalmer95

Change curse back to what it was.


Add the haunting curse to daedric prey because it's literally seems perfect for that morph. Pets do bonus damage while the curse is active. Pet builds press so many buttons and need to keep track of so much this would help reduce that a little.

Ankael07

If the changes to curse HAS to go live you can alternatively make the skill unpurgable, remove the limit on how many can be placed or just make the second curse a different one so we can combine it with the first curse to have a proper burst.

zerosingularity

For the record, short tests indicate in PvE that this new curse will provide better sustain and damage (since less curse casts = more force pulse weaves) and 1 cast=2 curses. The change should be minor, but might help sorc damage and sustain a little bit. Actual good players (not me) should test this though.

Also note, the damage of curse depends on your bar, so it can be on a lightning staff back bar, and detonate on a fire staff front bar for more damage. Now if only we didn't need 8000 toggles...

FriedEggSandwich

zerosingularity wrote: »

For the record, short tests indicate in PvE that this new curse will provide better sustain and damage (since less curse casts = more force pulse weaves) and 1 cast=2 curses. The change should be minor, but might help sorc damage and sustain a little bit. Actual good players (not me) should test this though.

Also note, the damage of curse depends on your bar, so it can be on a lightning staff back bar, and detonate on a fire staff front bar for more damage. Now if only we didn't need 8000 toggles...

More sustain maybe but, unless the skill has had a base damage buff, less damage because 2 curses in 12s < 3.43 curses in 12s. The 8% damage from inferno staff would have applied to velocious curse too. So we have to wait longer for less damage. This is going to be a pain to test correctly because velocious curse doesn't exist on pts and the new inferno passive doesn't exist on live. I welcome sustain buffs but not at the expense of damage and useability.