Should ZOS balance PvE and PvP separately?

[Deleted User]

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

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BigBragg

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

I don't think doubling Wrobel's workload would accomplish anything good.

MehrunesFlagon

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

BigBragg wrote: »

I don't think doubling Wrobel's workload would accomplish anything good.

Hire more staff. Surely they can afford such things with as much crown store items they sell.

Ch4mpTW

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

ZOS should either separate the 2 in regards to balancing, or just go on ahead and remove PvP all together. Polls were done on if people enjoyed themselves more in PvE or PvP. And every single time, it showed that more people enjoyed spending their time in PvE. Why ZOS continues to go about making PvE'ers suffer (the majority of their player base), to fix something that will never have true balance is beyond me. I have no clue why they have the logic that they do, or where it even came from. But what I do know, is that we're approaching a new "chapter" in ESO history. And yet, PvE and PvP balancing has not been seperated. It's beyond ridiculous at this point.

notimetocare

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

ZOS should either separate the 2 in regards to balancing, or just go on ahead and remove PvP all together. Polls were done on if people enjoyed themselves more in PvE or PvP. And every single time, it showed that more people enjoyed spending their time in PvE. Why ZOS continues to go about making PvE'ers suffer (the majority of their player base), to fix something that will never have true balance is beyond me. I have no clue why they have the logic that they do, or where it even came from. But what I do know, is that we're approaching a new "chapter" in ESO history. And yet, PvE and PvP balancing has not been seperated. It's beyond ridiculous at this point.

Most pvers wont suffer. Most dont do more than vet dungeons
Only idiots would think to remove an entire part of the game...

notimetocare

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

I don't think doubling Wrobel's workload would accomplish anything good.

Hire more staff. Surely they can afford such things with as much crown store items they sell.

Aside from the massive numbers of people not contributing at all to balance it to nothing

Gandrhulf_Harbard

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

notimetocare wrote: »

Only idiots would think to remove an entire part of the game...

Nobody is talking about removing PvP.

We are suggesting that it is maintained separately from PvE.

All The Best

eirinnpryderi

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

BigBragg wrote: »

I don't think doubling Wrobel's workload would accomplish anything good.

Why not triple it instead? Is @Wrobel fault that the game is so broken currently, PVP is totally different from PVE, even the required sets and their traits are different

MrBeatDown_

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

Yes. PvP and PvE need to be different in order for the game to perform smoother for both instances.

For example, AOE healing, Poisons, Proc Sets, Aoe Damage, and a few other things, When stacked up in a pvp zerg, cause packet loss, lag, and high ping. All these stacking numbers that the server has to calculate in cyrodiil cause the game to perform like garbage during prime time. It not only has negative effects for cyrodiil, but it also causes so much strain on the server that the pve people feel the pain of bad performance also.

The concept of cyrodiil is great, but i still believe that each character should have to fend for itself. They really need to remove group buffs and healing from cyrodiil in order to speed up the processes and calculations of whats happening in pvp. Combat needs to be faster. Battles need to end quicker because people will die faster with less calculations to be made. People can still stack up if they want too, but that really is a horrible method for group pvp and should not be rewarded since it is damaging the game. They really need to consider making group buffs and healing a PVE ONLY deal.

Adding a new class to the game with a AOE healing Debuff skill really is a big mistake. Adding more Aoe calculations to the problem of cyrodiil zerging is just going to make it that much worse. Now all the zergling groups will have to have at least 2 wardens to spam more AOE calculations into the zergball fest.

Cyrodiil just has WAY to many calculations to make for it to perform like it should.

Im so tired of dying because my skills wont go off and Potions cant be consumed. Res erecting at a keep and watching several skills go off that i casted before i died, while still taking damage from the group that killed me. This happens all the time in cyrodiil. The server cant keep up with it.

I VOTE YES!

Tandor

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Yes and they could but I don't think they have the staff to do it . Just my opinion .

And yet they managed One Tamriel?

MMORPGs tend to be better balanced in my experience when skills are adjusted separately for PvP and PvE.

Alphawolf01A

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

If things like health, healing rate, shields etc. can be temporarily nerfed when going into BG or Cyro from PVE, why can't other nerfs be implemented while in PVP for balance and then revert back when in PVE. Context sensitive nerfs instead of "robbing Peter to pay Paul" I'm tired of the "fix 1 problem by breaking 3 more thing" mentality.

Turelus

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

Personally I am still in favour of them behaving the same, although some minor concessions are fine (like outlined by OP).

I just don't want to play in a system where X skill does Y in PvE but acts completely different and does Z in PvP.

darkblue5

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

To a large degree this has been achieved by skills getting balanced by where they are most relevant. Most of the remaining skills are overperforming or underperforming in both. Lots of "Nerfed due to PvP/PvE" complaints are about nerfs to things that are overperforming in both style of play.

Alphawolf01A

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

The skills don't need to be completely different between PVP and PVE. The numbers and percentages could change depening on the activity. This way they could "balance" PVP without breaking PVE.

The truth is, PVP will never be truely balanced. It's impossible, there are too many variables. Face it, PVPers love to wreck other players, until they get wrecked by someone else, then it's, "nerf this, nerf that. that's OP."

The more they balance for PVP, the harder it gets to do vet level endgame activities, because of severely weakened builds and abilities.

Massacre_Wurm

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

No , it did nothing good for GW2. PVP there is awful.

kongkim

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

NO.. Its the same game.
I want my skills to do the same.

Uryel

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

They should. Some skills that are perfectly functional in PvE are apparently the cause of endless whining in PvP. Or classes, even. And when the nerf bat hits, it hits in favor of PvP with no regards for PvE whatsoever. That's botched beyond senseless.

Also, they can. The game can already tell when you are in a PvP area. It won't let you summon your assistants if you are. So basically, there isn't even a large change to code to enable it. It's already there. They just need to stop being lazy / self righteous, and manage two sets of abilities separately.

Aptonoth

Yes this should become common practice.

Alucardo

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

Personally I think it's a bad idea. For some, PvE is just a means to level and gear up so that they can PvP, which isn't necessarily a bad thing because it teaches you how to use your class. But then what? You get into Cyrodiil and all your skills behave differently because you're in PvP.
I've also had no issue doing dungeons and trials. Hell, I've even done it in my PvP gear. Sure you get the odd bad run because someone doesn't know the mechanics, or is just generally bad at the game, but it's got nothing to do with the abilities - it's how you use them.
Let's not complicate things by splitting them up. On top of that you're adding more calculations to check if the player is in a pvp instance. While that doesn't sound like much, remember it's calculating that for every single skill activated for every person. Just leave it alone and adapt for the love of god.

Alphawolf01A

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

kongkim wrote: »

NO.. Its the same game.
I want my skills to do the same.

They aren't the same game. That is why there are pvp areas(Cyro) and activities(BG). If they were the same it would be open world PVP all the time. It's not.

kongkim

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

Alphawolf01A wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

NO.. Its the same game.
I want my skills to do the same.

They aren't the same game. That is why there are pvp areas(Cyro) and activities(BG). If they were the same it would be open world PVP all the time. It's not.

Haha that is simply not true. Not at all. not even close...
You have a character that you can play and level up, were you learn how the skill works and find good rotations ect.
And you can play both pve and pvp with that character.

HappyLittleTree

Zos should look at that racist skeleton polymorph

#saxhleellivematter #khajiitlivematter

MehrunesFlagon

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

kongkim wrote: »

NO.. Its the same game.
I want my skills to do the same.

and I honestly think anyone with a bit of sense would balance them separately.It'snot that hard to remember two different things.

MehrunesFlagon

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

Alucardo wrote: »

Personally I think it's a bad idea. For some, PvE is just a means to level and gear up so that they can PvP, which isn't necessarily a bad thing because it teaches you how to use your class. But then what? You get into Cyrodiil and all your skills behave differently because you're in PvP.
I've also had no issue doing dungeons and trials. Hell, I've even done it in my PvP gear. Sure you get the odd bad run because someone doesn't know the mechanics, or is just generally bad at the game, but it's got nothing to do with the abilities - it's how you use them.
Let's not complicate things by splitting them up. On top of that you're adding more calculations to check if the player is in a pvp instance. While that doesn't sound like much, remember it's calculating that for every single skill activated for every person. Just leave it alone and adapt for the love of god.

Ok this is what we call dumbing it down. I think everyone can see where that has gotten us.

Alphawolf01A

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

kongkim wrote: »

Alphawolf01A wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

NO.. Its the same game.
I want my skills to do the same.

They aren't the same game. That is why there are pvp areas(Cyro) and activities(BG). If they were the same it would be open world PVP all the time. It's not.

Haha that is simply not true. Not at all. not even close...
You have a character that you can play and level up, were you learn how the skill works and find good rotations ect.
And you can play both pve and pvp with that character.

Yes, you can have a character that can do both, but not well. "Jack of all trades, master of none" A good PVP build may not work as well in PVE and vice-versa. Most people do dedicated builds for each role and game type. the attempts at balance usually breaks one or the other.

kongkim

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

NO.. Its the same game.
I want my skills to do the same.

and I honestly think anyone with a bit of sense would balance them separately.It'snot that hard to remember two different things.

Its fine you think i have no sense.
But if you think PVP will become balance by making to different games were thing work differently, you are simply wrong.
There are no MMO games out there with 100% balance pvp.
The only way to do this is be making all classes have skills that more or less do the same. And all people have access to the same things at all times.
And i don't think that is what most people would like, as it would be a boring hell with no diversity.

Genomic

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

About the time when ESO was just released a highly experienced MMO dev wrote an article about how nerfing PvE for the sake of PvP was one of the most damaging MMO dev mistakes. I wish I could find that article again and post it here, but the dev's name escapes me.

Alucardo

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Personally I think it's a bad idea. For some, PvE is just a means to level and gear up so that they can PvP, which isn't necessarily a bad thing because it teaches you how to use your class. But then what? You get into Cyrodiil and all your skills behave differently because you're in PvP.
I've also had no issue doing dungeons and trials. Hell, I've even done it in my PvP gear. Sure you get the odd bad run because someone doesn't know the mechanics, or is just generally bad at the game, but it's got nothing to do with the abilities - it's how you use them.
Let's not complicate things by splitting them up. On top of that you're adding more calculations to check if the player is in a pvp instance. While that doesn't sound like much, remember it's calculating that for every single skill activated for every person. Just leave it alone and adapt for the love of god.

Ok this is what we call dumbing it down. I think everyone can see where that has gotten us.

Dumbing it down? I'm asking to leave it where it is, not make it any dumber. Balancing them separately isn't making things any smarter, it's just unnecessary code bloat and having to learn your class twice. I fail to see the positive there.

Alphawolf01A

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

I think he meant that the devs should have had the sense to balance them seperately, not meaning you lack sense

Kadoin

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

You'll still get nerfed in both and see overbuffing in both. All such a change will do is create more barriers between PvP and PvE. The funny part is that people seem to think that PvP and PvE builds don't suffer from the same brokeness, yet PvP is what helps you find exactly what kind of broken builds to use in PvE.

The tank build I use in PvE when parties suck too much to use the meta one is the same one I use in PvP.
The heal build I use in PvE when parties suck too much to use the meta one is the same one I use in PvP.
The DPS build I use in PvE for solo content like vMA is the same, hybridized one I use in PvP (yeah, I actually did that ).

The reality of it is that something that is broken in one place is almost always broken in another (like infiniblocking before it was nerfed, infinite mag builds with no need to heavy attack + infinite stam through passives or skills that exchange it & tanking before nerfs, etc.). Just because a majority of the player base refuses to test or actually create their own build and exploit these things does not mean it isn't a problem and should be overlooked by the dev team.