Should ZOS balance PvE and PvP separately?

Gilvoth

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

i do not believe the server can handle that kind of technology nor that amount of information.
it will destory eso to cause that much math.

Betheny

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

^dumbest thing I've read today.

Sausage

You do realize balacing PVE and PVP takes people? What Zen doesnt ahve.

ninjaguyman

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

The way ZOS currently balances PVE and PVP is through battlespirit and balancing skills so they can fit both worlds at the same time.

and for the most part battlespirit does as its supposed to as pve bosses can have millions of health while players may have only 20-30k. however since battlespirit is applied basically across the board, there are some skills that just under perform due to having there damage/healing reduced by a whopping 50%. dk dragon blood comes to mind. and maybe even over perform, breath of life spam comes to mind. for these kinds of things there should be some slight tweak made specifically for skills so they are more balanced. How should they be changed? well idk, im not an expert in gamewide balance.

idk when that quote was from, but in general, I agree with zos that skills should 'feel' the same in both pve and pvp. we're not asking for huge changes to every skill so they operate differently in pve and pvp. well, atleast im not. but I am in support of making slight changes to skills specifically in pvp.

Enslaved

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

As shown in ambush example. This "balancing" what we will have in next patch do seem lazy af.

Cinbri

After 2 years you hope game mechanic will drasticly change?!

StereoLiz

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

We need balace both on PvP and PvE. But! Bosses mobs can't go here on forum and tell what set or skill are OP in their opinion. When we hear PvE player feedback its only "give me more, more, more damage". Only pvp feedbacks show really unbalanced things.

Dragonking06

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

People need to calm down and just wait to see what the patch will do when it drops.There's no point in everyone turning into doomsayers when ZOS brings out a balance tweak you think will ruin your PvP/PvE fun when you haven't even seen what it does yet.

Now back to the matter of the Poll, I'd like to see maybe a few other skills behave differently concerning stuns, but nothing so drastic. The transition from PvE to PvP and back should be as seamless as possible.

So, No.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

I am bumping this thread because the recent patch notes for Morrowind have brought this topic up again. It feels that more and more skills are getting nerfed or changed because they perform either too well in PvE or too well in PvP.

The recent crystal frags nerf seems like a PVE nerf to pull Sorc DPS down a bit, but it nerfs one of the few good damage dealing skills for sorcs in PvP.

I would really like to know the community's take on this issue now that even further changes have brought this issue into the forefront.

Because of these reasons I feel a bump is justified on this thread and that the usual conditions (outdated information, confusion, etc) that moderation locked older or bumped threads are NOT present in this particular thread.

So for the purpose of preserving the comments and votes that have already gone into this poll that is still completely relevant, I ask moderation not to close this thread.

TheBonesXXX

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

All things related to PvP should come from Cyrodiil, Imp City, and Battlegrounds. Remove all PvE from Cyrodiil, give us PvP stats, crafting stations, and what have you.

Remove instances from Imp city and make them PvP. Make Kena and Warden PvP two pieces, let PvPers have white gold tower.

Caligamy_ESO

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

Most of us have been saying this from the beginning. If they really wanted ESO combat to feel the same in both PVP and PVE then I ask them, what the hell is up with my cure power in PVP, or why are my sorc shields lower in PVP? Certainly doesn't even remotely feel the same there....

Balance for the sake of PVP in this game, which is quite terrible, is a blight on the PVE community.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

Digerati wrote: »

The problem:
A large group of soft people are constantly begging for nerfs. Many of these same people turn around and complain about the effects of the nerf..

90% of the nerfs to PvE over the period since 1T have come from PvP Whines.

I agree ZOS should stop listening to the PvP whiners; no game that has ever pandered to this vocal minority has ever managed to attain any degree of build stability.

All The Best

AtraisMachina

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

No ***

NecroEnzo

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

I'm going to diverge from what I've been advocating on the forums. This is due to the fact that I truly feel that PvP and PvE don't HAVE to be balanced through junk like Battle Spirit; I think that it's the simplest route because what I've seen leads me to believe the developers are spineless, and won't challenge market trends because they fear for their jobs/financing for the game. They might lack creativity, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt in that department, as what I've seen in game companies: is not that people aren't ready to try something radical... it's that there's some bully who utilizes job hierarchy, and himself is terrified of reactions of higher-ups and investors, when told their investment is taking a radical new direction (EVEN WHEN MOST MMORPGS ARE CONSISTENTLY FALLING BEHIND CELL PHONE GAMES IN TERMS OF PROFIT).

For a long time I've been playing/working on online games (more play than work, I assure you), and the PvE MMORPG scene always bugged me. Why can't I CC a boss? Why does the legendary tactician target the tank while he isn't snared and is clearly free to go attack the healer? Why do people value "progression" when they aren't progressing: It takes the same amount of time/effort to kill a boss with higher numbers and better gear, and only serves to trivialize old content?

Primarily I always blame the playerbase: Quitters, sore losers, and the like who would bring the bar lower rather than reach higher. Secondly, I blame developers for catering to them. However, the statistics show: some of my favorite games died due to developers who stood their ground (Like Dark Vale Games and their PvP hit Forge). I've tried arguing for things like skill based crafting, but the players who excel at button pushing excel at button pushing, and players that can't find a niche and feel good about themselves and the game eventually give up. So we're often stuck with the level-up/go get a more powerful item with help from your friends scenario. In this game, people complain about vMA both ways: Make it easier, Make it HARDER. I know this may seem like digressing, but really the PvE/PvP conundrum always seems to have this issue laying in the background: are we balancing these two environments, or are we balancing two environments because of player capacity - where PvP is Darwinian, and PvE has some welfare options?

That being said (and a lot of it), I don't think we need junk like relative progression. It's costly; it costs the developers more content that WILL be devoured by players in less time than it will take to create NEW content. vMA and trials are great examples of how things should be done: A scoring system, with a normal mode so people can see content/get the gear needed to compete. I'd even argue for people being able to get the top end gear rewards from normal, with high scorers getting crowns/unique cosmetics, because it never made sense to me to reward powerful players with more powerful items, while leaving people who already have issues behind (rich get richer...).

Also, why does PvE need to function so differently from PvP? What is this taunt stuff? Did the tank flame the NPC in tells, causing him to lose all sense of martial strategy? Why can't the boss aggro healers, and the tank has to keep the bosses snared/immobilized, with players needing to CC the boss when its' immunity isn't up to prevent devastating attacks? What's wrong with that idea? It's more like PvP, it's can be managed in a good group, and is almost identical to the PvP scenarios. All you other PvPers have seen what I've seen: people attacking the DRAGONKNIGHT while the pocket healer is free casting. You say to those players "Hey dur, y u attack da tank yo?", but you know in your heart what it is to be rooted forever until you run out of stam for roll dodges, being forever slowed, and having nothing left to do other than go down fighting, hoping someone will toss you a cleanse. This change would make PvE content radically more challenging, and with that said I can't advocate for it without also advocating for equivalent loot (if we still aren't going to be able to upgrade jewelry).

Players need something to do, but tricking them into thinking they're going forward, when they are running a hamster wheel, and having the side effect of complicating PvP, clearly isn't the ultimate solution.

I just don't know if what I suggested, or anything along those lines would be near it either. As I've said, all the games I loved, few others did. I'm a different type of player though. I got 1 shot on my stam dk in the Imperial city, and lost 1k tel var stones. I didn't quit, I flexed radiant magelight onto my bar for them cats that be stalkin'. Now my issue is other skilled Stam DKs who now have more sustain than me, and out-play me on the burst rotation. My resolve? Get better.

Doctordarkspawn

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

NecroEnzo wrote: »

I'm going to diverge from what I've been advocating on the forums. This is due to the fact that I truly feel that PvP and PvE don't HAVE to be balanced through junk like Battle Spirit; I think that it's the simplest route because what I've seen leads me to believe the developers are spineless, and won't challenge market trends because they fear for their jobs/financing for the game. They might lack creativity, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt in that department, as what I've seen in game companies: is not that people aren't ready to try something radical... it's that there's some bully who utilizes job hierarchy, and himself is terrified of reactions of higher-ups and investors, when told their investment is taking a radical new direction (EVEN WHEN MOST MMORPGS ARE CONSISTENTLY FALLING BEHIND CELL PHONE GAMES IN TERMS OF PROFIT).

For a long time I've been playing/working on online games (more play than work, I assure you), and the PvE MMORPG scene always bugged me. Why can't I CC a boss? Why does the legendary tactician target the tank while he isn't snared and is clearly free to go attack the healer? Why do people value "progression" when they aren't progressing: It takes the same amount of time/effort to kill a boss with higher numbers and better gear, and only serves to trivialize old content?

Primarily I always blame the playerbase: Quitters, sore losers, and the like who would bring the bar lower rather than reach higher. Secondly, I blame developers for catering to them. However, the statistics show: some of my favorite games died due to developers who stood their ground (Like Dark Vale Games and their PvP hit Forge). I've tried arguing for things like skill based crafting, but the players who excel at button pushing excel at button pushing, and players that can't find a niche and feel good about themselves and the game eventually give up. So we're often stuck with the level-up/go get a more powerful item with help from your friends scenario. In this game, people complain about vMA both ways: Make it easier, Make it HARDER. I know this may seem like digressing, but really the PvE/PvP conundrum always seems to have this issue laying in the background: are we balancing these two environments, or are we balancing two environments because of player capacity - where PvP is Darwinian, and PvE has some welfare options?

That being said (and a lot of it), I don't think we need junk like relative progression. It's costly; it costs the developers more content that WILL be devoured by players in less time than it will take to create NEW content. vMA and trials are great examples of how things should be done: A scoring system, with a normal mode so people can see content/get the gear needed to compete. I'd even argue for people being able to get the top end gear rewards from normal, with high scorers getting crowns/unique cosmetics, because it never made sense to me to reward powerful players with more powerful items, while leaving people who already have issues behind (rich get richer...).

Also, why does PvE need to function so differently from PvP? What is this taunt stuff? Did the tank flame the NPC in tells, causing him to lose all sense of martial strategy? Why can't the boss aggro healers, and the tank has to keep the bosses snared/immobilized, with players needing to CC the boss when its' immunity isn't up to prevent devastating attacks? What's wrong with that idea? It's more like PvP, it's can be managed in a good group, and is almost identical to the PvP scenarios. All you other PvPers have seen what I've seen: people attacking the DRAGONKNIGHT while the pocket healer is free casting. You say to those players "Hey dur, y u attack da tank yo?", but you know in your heart what it is to be rooted forever until you run out of stam for roll dodges, being forever slowed, and having nothing left to do other than go down fighting, hoping someone will toss you a cleanse. This change would make PvE content radically more challenging, and with that said I can't advocate for it without also advocating for equivalent loot (if we still aren't going to be able to upgrade jewelry).

Players need something to do, but tricking them into thinking they're going forward, when they are running a hamster wheel, and having the side effect of complicating PvP, clearly isn't the ultimate solution.

I just don't know if what I suggested, or anything along those lines would be near it either. As I've said, all the games I loved, few others did. I'm a different type of player though. I got 1 shot on my stam dk in the Imperial city, and lost 1k tel var stones. I didn't quit, I flexed radiant magelight onto my bar for them cats that be stalkin'. Now my issue is other skilled Stam DKs who now have more sustain than me, and out-play me on the burst rotation. My resolve? Get better.

"Why does PVE need to function so differently from PVP?" Lemme stop you right there. It dont.

But for as long as can be remembered, changes like the Wrath change have occured, time and again. With ZOS bending to PVPer concern over PVE concern. This is why the two need to be balanced seperately: BECAUSE WE KEEP GETING SCREWED FOR NO REASON.

Maybe people do need to get better. But that dont change the fact I got screwed as a tank for PVP benefite, a change that nobody asked for, and who, at the time, PVPers were happy to tell us to shut up and git gud about.

O_LYKOS

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

I feel just leave all the "balancing" alone. Simply removing cp from pvp is good enough imo

Jamascus

Digerati wrote: »

This is what completely destroyed Rift.

People don't want to carry multiple suits. People don't want to have to maintain 2 builds.

The character you play in PvP and PvE should be as similar as possible. Divergence between your "PvP character" and your "PvE character" diminishes your character commitment and will gravely reduce the longevity of this title.

What actually needs to happen:

People need to grow up and stop whining about every single thing ZOS does. Seriously. It doesn't freakin matter what they do, there's a large subversive community of forum-whiners who will pick it apart and theory-craft on why it's a bad idea.

This has been happening since launch. Impenetrable is designed specifically for PVP but is useless in PVE. So, you're required to carry around two of the same suits, one with impen. the other a combo of divines, sturdy, infused and reinforced dependant on your chosen role for pve content. Throw in the rng for monster sets and you may have a piece with prosperous or charged etc until you loot the one you want from the boss or the undaunted chests. It's currently a hot mess that has all involved frustrated. Are players to quick to react to changes sometimes, yes. Are devs to stubborn to listen sometimes, yes. But we need each other in some fashion to have a game we can all enjoy.

NecroEnzo

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

"Why does PVE need to function so differently from PVP?" Lemme stop you right there. It dont.

But for as long as can be remembered, changes like the Wrath change have occured, time and again. With ZOS bending to PVPer concern over PVE concern. This is why the two need to be balanced seperately: BECAUSE WE KEEP GETING SCREWED FOR NO REASON.

Maybe people do need to get better. But that dont change the fact I got screwed as a tank for PVP benefite, a change that nobody asked for, and who, at the time, PVPers were happy to tell us to shut up and git gud about.

I get that you feel spurned by those decisions, yet the pendulum swings both ways.

Also, come on: You're playing a tank. You want to: Mitigate the maximum amount of damage, heal yourself, AND DO 20k dps? Get real, that was OP even for PvE.

Who said no one asked for it? I can bring up all kinds of posts with people complaining about wrath.

JinMori

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

I said it many times, and will say it again, it comes down to logic.

The less variables you have, the better your balance will be.
Pvp and pve behave in completely different ways, while in pve you are mostly in control, in pvp, you are much less in control, you can't force a player to do exactly as you like, you might drive him into a trap if you are clever enough, but you can't control a player 100%.

Some abilities are op in pvp and fine in pve, or vice versa, for example, the damage buff you get from crouching, is op in pvp, because it allows you to one shot a player, while in pve, it's mostly useless, because mobs just have too much health.

Stuns are another example of disparity, in pvp they are priceless, while in pve they are not as valuable, you can line up some very nasty burst in pvp, but in pve what are you gonna do? kill a single mob? another one will come, don't get me wrong, sometimes in critical situation they are useful, just not as much.

Abilities like radiant destruction are fine in pve while in pvp are op, this is mostly because of the insane range, which should have been reduced, instead of the damage, you can nuke someone from 36 meters, is that fair? While in pve it's strong, but not op.

Fear is an extreme example of disparity between pve and pvp, in pvp they are very useful, while in pve they are damaging, because they spread the targets, meaning that your dps drops since they get out of your ground aoes.

The most glaring example is cp points, in pvp cp are op, because they allow you to negate, completely negate some builds, heavy armor is kind, thanks to cost reduction, and you can do a lot of damage and have a lot of resistance, while in pve, they are strong, but not as much, cp don't allow you to negate a boss.
if a one shot mechanic hit you, that 25% resistance isn't gonna save you, and you can't run heavy armor, because you won't do enough damage.

And also, a nerf to cp doesn't behave in the same way in pvp and pve, in pvp a nerf to cp means that you and your enemy are both weakened, but in pve it doesn't twork like that, you are nerfed, but the boss isn't nerfed, the adds aren't nearfed.

So basically please for the love of god separate pvp and pve, your stubborn obsession with this "consistent unified" game is ruining it, for you, for us, for everyone, just look at the last patches, pure unadulterated garbage. *** trash.

It's been 3 years, and this unified game *** has only brought more and more problems.

Emmagoldman

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

Personally I think 95%of the ove content needs a major nerf. It is waaaaay to easy except for several trials. Personally I feel that we already have enough choices.

Phinix1

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

Digerati wrote: »

This is what completely destroyed Rift.

People don't want to carry multiple suits. People don't want to have to maintain 2 builds.

The character you play in PvP and PvE should be as similar as possible. Divergence between your "PvP character" and your "PvE character" diminishes your character commitment and will gravely reduce the longevity of this title.

What actually needs to happen:

People need to grow up and stop whining about every single thing ZOS does. Seriously. It doesn't freakin matter what they do, there's a large subversive community of forum-whiners who will pick it apart and theory-craft on why it's a bad idea.

F2P ruined Rift not PVP balance.

If someone can't be bothered to swap out gear to suit the activity they are engaging in that session, then I can't be bothered to have them in my group. Chances are someone that lazy isn't going to bother learning and optimizing their build either, and just throws on whatever old thing because "it feels right leave me alone I'm doing my thing."

Would one wear all impenetrable to a trial? Or all divines to Cyrodiil? It already IS different and ZOS isn't doing themselves or the community any favors denying it.

Would you make the same argument for tank gear vs. healer gear? That we should just normalize and homogenize everything and make it all work exactly the same in every role for every class all the time, because swapping between tank and healer sets just requires too much effort? No, of course not.

Part of the attraction of a game like this is that it makes you think. You research strategies and experiment with improvements to your character in different situations over time.

Removing all that because someone is too lazy to change gear for an evening of PVP is the worst argument for not doing proper PVP/PVE balance separation I have heard, no offense.

Galwylin

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

I wish they were separate. At the moment, we have some skills that work differently in PvP than PvE. And others don't. Instead of doing that across the board, they keep this constant turmoil going where PvE suffers for PvP and (I'm sure) PvP suffers for PvE. It makes no one happy with the end results so they have to keep at. Some times things are difficult because they are impossible. I can't imagine how much the PvE side of things would have at this point if they weren't still slugging at this effort.

The map might be almost completely filled at this point. New races and classes could have been introduced instead of just the first one. We would probably have all major holidays covered. New weapons perhaps. New skill lines. There just so much that could be in progress instead of this constant PvP balance attempt. I don't mind PvP getting balanced but it shouldn't be the biggest part of every patch and every maintenance. Whatever this idea they have for nightblades could have been finished. Or could have been unneeded. The list goes on and what have we got to show for all the work? Apparently right where they started. Some classes/gear too overpowered and some classes completely in the dust.

Coilbox

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

Digerati wrote: »

This is what completely destroyed Rift.

People don't want to carry multiple suits. People don't want to have to maintain 2 builds.

The character you play in PvP and PvE should be as similar as possible. Divergence between your "PvP character" and your "PvE character" diminishes your character commitment and will gravely reduce the longevity of this title.

What actually needs to happen:

People need to grow up and stop whining about every single thing ZOS does. Seriously. It doesn't freakin matter what they do, there's a large subversive community of forum-whiners who will pick it apart and theory-craft on why it's a bad idea.

Oh look! What a surprise, another 'grown up' telling everyone to stop crying...

colig

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

The arguments against skill separation of pve/pvp are familiar to me. I played Guild Wars 1 for a long time and it too struggled with the same problem, only to relent well past its glory days.

Common arguments against it:

- it's too confusing. If the UI is properly set up to explain the differences, it should be fine.
- too much work involved. Game is still being worked by developers. Only they can figure out if it's too much work for them. Balancing the game for both pve/pvp at the same time is not necessarily easier.
- game is fine already. Game is playable, but it could be improved?

Realistically, I don't expect ZOS to change their mind soon. ESO2 will probably launch before they do.

Koensol

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

Digerati wrote: »

This is what completely destroyed Rift.

People don't want to carry multiple suits. People don't want to have to maintain 2 builds.

The character you play in PvP and PvE should be as similar as possible. Divergence between your "PvP character" and your "PvE character" diminishes your character commitment and will gravely reduce the longevity of this title.

What actually needs to happen:

People need to grow up and stop whining about every single thing ZOS does. Seriously. It doesn't freakin matter what they do, there's a large subversive community of forum-whiners who will pick it apart and theory-craft on why it's a bad idea.

Lol if you think this is what destroyed Rift, you are completely delusional. But aside from that, ZOS's tunnel visioned idealism when it comes to this subject will make a lot of people leave the game. Period. So many skills have been made more and more un-unique. Homogenization of skills is a terrible thing, especially in game like ESO with this little choice in skills. PvP and PvE in this game are so vastly different in playstyle and needs. It doesn't seem logical to use a one size fits all approach.

GaldorP

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

I suggested years ago that ZOS should reduce any effect that returns Magicka, Stamina, or Health to a player by 50-75% in Cyrodiil. Instead, they have added new mechanics few people like (OP resource draining poisons, blocking kills Stam Recovery, etc.) to deal with the insane sustain and healing mechanics in PvP but the problem was never properly fixed, in my opinion.

The changes that happen to sustain now are simply a necessity, in my opinion, to get battlegrounds PvP to a place where the balancing team can even start doing some actual balancing (infinite sustain and unkillable builds would have ruined battlegrounds without that change).

My guess is that they didn't want PvP to feel and play differently from PvE so they've made changes that effect the entire game, but in my opinion, they should have kept PvE the way it is now and only make changes to PvP (which seems a lot easier to do as well, just add a global debuff to PvP zones that affects everything in the same way, instead of manually changing every single skill). The Champion system should always have been disabled for PvP in its current state.

Edit: Almost any MMOG with PvP I've played has skills/effects that work differently in PvP (when used against other players). It allows players to feel really powerful in PvE but at the same time allows for reasonable balancing in PvP.

notimetocare

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

GaldorP wrote: »

I suggested years ago that ZOS should reduce any effect that returns Magicka, Stamina, or Health to a player by 50-75% in Cyrodiil. Instead, they have added new mechanics few people like (OP resource draining poisons, blocking kills Stam Recovery, etc.) to deal with the insane sustain and healing mechanics in PvP but the problem was never properly fixed, in my opinion.

The changes that happen to sustain now are simply a necessity, in my opinion, to get battlegrounds PvP to a place where the balancing team can even start doing some actual balancing (infinite sustain and unkillable builds would have ruined battlegrounds without that change).

My guess is that they didn't want PvP to feel and play differently from PvE so they've made changes that effect the entire game, but in my opinion, they should have kept PvE the way it is now and only make changes to PvP (which seems a lot easier to do as well, just add a global debuff to PvP zones that affects everything in the same way, instead of manually changing every single skill). The Champion system should always have been disabled for PvP in its current state.

Edit: Almost any MMOG with PvP I've played has skills/effects that work differently in PvP (when used against other players). It allows players to feel really powerful in PvE but at the same time allows for reasonable balancing in PvP.

Very few games do, and even then its few skills. Other games also have full pve/pvp separation. We have Cyrodiil

Docmandu

NO - ZOS should continue its policy of balancing for both PvP/PvE so that everything behaves the same in both environments

And this is how you start new World Wars... hate on "the others"... works every time.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

Digerati wrote: »

This is what completely destroyed Rift.

People don't want to carry multiple suits. People don't want to have to maintain 2 builds.

And there's absolutely no need for them to do so.

The Gear and Skill can essentially remain the same but the Resource To Payofff equation be tweaked differently for PvP.

Half the effectiveness of Sustain abilities in PvP for example.

All The Best

Gandrhulf_Harbard

YES - ZOS should allow certain skills, abilities and combat dynamics to behave differently in PvP and PvE

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

At any rate, the fact that players can pretty much seamlessly transition from PvE to PvP and vice versa is an awesome feature and a huge selling point of ESO as a whole.

That fact that so few of them do so kind of refutes that.

My Guild currently has just over 200 people on the roster - less than 5% of them ever bother going to Cyrodiil.

What most PvPers fail to understand is that the vast majority of PvEers really don't give a damn about PvP, most never even think about it. And if ESO didn't have 2 or 3 key skills locked in the PvP Skill Lines even less would bother with it.

However, I'm not one of those PvEers who think MMORPGs shouldn't cater to the PvPers; I think ALL play styles should be catered to.

But I would really like for a game to split PvE and PvP entirely so that my PvE experience is never impacted because of so called "balance" decisions made for PvP.

All The Best