Upcoming PvP Re-Balance / List of Broken Stuff

Ishammael

In the spirit of one (last) gasp at PvP balance -- which we know is incoming 1st Quarter or so -- lets brainstorm for @Wrobel a good list of things to be worked on. Post the problem and a suggestion for how to fix it. These can be specific balance changes (like Proc Sets) or overall gameplay changes

I'll try to keep the top of the thread updated with good suggestions

I'll start with just a few

1. Proc Sets -- probably need a global cooldown to enforce players to use only one. Remove the RNG element.
2. Soft Caps -- Need to come back in a bad way. We have one-shot gank builds, 80k templars, unkillable blockers. Among other ridiculous setups. Some of this has got to give for the life of PvP. It is so bad right now. Hand-in-hand with this should be a complete re-work of CP trees to prevent infinite resources or low-regen builds.
3. Lag -- worse than it has ever been. Players and zergs have got to be steered away from keeps and major choke points.
4. Magicka DK -- make it great again! Three main suggestions: (1) magicka gap closer, (2) fix Dragon Blood, (3) major heroism.
5. Hurricane / Imploision / Dark Deal -- is super strong. Probably needs to be toned down just a bit. I don't like the Templar dmg proc either.
6. RNG -- Major Evasion I would love to see re-worked to something not random.
7. Unblockable -- shouldn't be a thing. Dawnbreaker, Eye of the Storm, Fear, Petrify, etc. No skillful counter is horrible. Please make meteor reflectable again!

Stratforge

Ishammael wrote: »

In the spirit of one (last) gasp at PvP balance -- which we know is incoming 1st Quarter or so -- lets brainstorm for @Wrobel a good list of things to be worked on. Post the problem and a suggestion for how to fix it. These can be specific balance changes (like Proc Sets) or overall gameplay changes

I'll try to keep the top of the thread updated with good suggestions

I'll start with just a few

1. Proc Sets -- probably need a global cooldown to enforce players to use only one. Remove the RNG element.

Proc sets are a problem but this wouldn't fix them. It's that the damage is too high and instant. If those problems were handled, it wouldn't matter if someone stacked widowmaker, viper, veli or whatever.

Overall I agree with the problems you identified.

zyk

Ishammael wrote: »

7. Unblockable -- shouldn't be a thing. Dawnbreaker, Eye of the Storm, Fear, Petrify, etc. No skillful counter is horrible. Please make meteor reflectable again!

Abilities that go through block are the counters to block. DOTs can be countered in other ways. Super tanky builds are at least as great an issue as proc builds.

Manoekin

zyk wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

7. Unblockable -- shouldn't be a thing. Dawnbreaker, Eye of the Storm, Fear, Petrify, etc. No skillful counter is horrible. Please make meteor reflectable again!

Abilities that go through block are the counters to block. DOTs can be countered in other ways. Super tanky builds are at least as great an issue as proc builds.

We only need abilities that go through block because we have builds that literally never drop block.

timidobserver

Ishammael wrote: »

5. Hurricane / Imploision / Dark Deal -- is super strong. Probably needs to be toned down just a bit. I don't like the Templar dmg proc either.

I hear a lot of Templar whining, but I've never heard anyone complain about burning light before

LeifErickson

Fix wings.
Fix mist form.
Fix cloak.
Fix clouding swarm.
Fix gap closers.
Fix willows path.
Did I forget something?

Ishammael

zyk wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

7. Unblockable -- shouldn't be a thing. Dawnbreaker, Eye of the Storm, Fear, Petrify, etc. No skillful counter is horrible. Please make meteor reflectable again!

Abilities that go through block are the counters to block. DOTs can be countered in other ways. Super tanky builds are at least as great an issue as proc builds.

Well, beating someone until they lost stamina used to be a counter to block. Unfortunately, CPs have made permanent block more real than it has ever been. Throw in the insane ability to heal, and voila, unlikable builds. Which is why I mentioned... Soft caps! Solved both problems at once!

timidobserver wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

5. Hurricane / Imploision / Dark Deal -- is super strong. Probably needs to be toned down just a bit. I don't like the Templar dmg proc either.

I hear a lot of Templar whining, but I've never heard anyone complain about burning light before

I don't like RNG in PvP.

Ishammael

Stratforge wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

In the spirit of one (last) gasp at PvP balance -- which we know is incoming 1st Quarter or so -- lets brainstorm for @Wrobel a good list of things to be worked on. Post the problem and a suggestion for how to fix it. These can be specific balance changes (like Proc Sets) or overall gameplay changes

I'll try to keep the top of the thread updated with good suggestions

I'll start with just a few

1. Proc Sets -- probably need a global cooldown to enforce players to use only one. Remove the RNG element.

Proc sets are a problem but this wouldn't fix them. It's that the damage is too high and instant. If those problems were handled, it wouldn't matter if someone stacked widowmaker, viper, veli or whatever.

Overall I agree with the problems you identified.

I mean.. I sorta agree. The problem is that you can stack poison, ability, multi proc, passive, and heavy attack into one shot.

If I had my way, proc sets would be completely erased, but I was trying to find a middle ground.

Ishammael

Manoekin wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

7. Unblockable -- shouldn't be a thing. Dawnbreaker, Eye of the Storm, Fear, Petrify, etc. No skillful counter is horrible. Please make meteor reflectable again!

Abilities that go through block are the counters to block. DOTs can be countered in other ways. Super tanky builds are at least as great an issue as proc builds.

We only need abilities that go through block because we have builds that literally never drop block.

Exactly. They never drop block because no soft caps.

Ishammael

LeifErickson wrote: »

Fix wings.
Fix mist form.
Fix cloak.
Fix clouding swarm.
Fix gap closers.
Fix willows path.
Did I forget something?

Dragon Blood.

timidobserver

Ishammael wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

5. Hurricane / Imploision / Dark Deal -- is super strong. Probably needs to be toned down just a bit. I don't like the Templar dmg proc either.

I hear a lot of Templar whining, but I've never heard anyone complain about burning light before

I don't like RNG in PvP.

Still pretty funny to see someone wanting burning light of all things nerfed. It's a nice passive, but it doesn't cause any imbalance in the game.

LeifErickson

Ishammael wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Fix wings.
Fix mist form.
Fix cloak.
Fix clouding swarm.
Fix gap closers.
Fix willows path.
Did I forget something?

Dragon Blood.

Dragon blood isn't broken to my knowledge. All of the things I listed are actually broken.

Solariken

Ishammael wrote: »

4. Magicka DK -- make it great again! Three main suggestions: (1) magicka gap closer, (2) fix Dragon Blood, (3) major heroism.
5. Hurricane / Imploision / Dark Deal -- is super strong. Probably needs to be toned down just a bit. I don't like the Templar dmg proc either.
6. RNG -- Major Evasion I would love to see re-worked to something not random.
7. Unblockable -- shouldn't be a thing. Dawnbreaker, Eye of the Storm, Fear, Petrify, etc. No skillful counter is horrible. Please make meteor reflectable again!

Major Heroism for Dk? Bat Swarm PTSD triggered. Care to elaborate on why? That would be a massive buff not only to damage output potential but also to resource return.

Implosion is an absolutely beastly passive considering that all physical damage can proc it - but instead of nerfing that, I think that Burning Light should be changed/expanded to follow suit. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about Burning Light except to say that it's too limiting.

Major Evasion is garbage for sure, it needs to be replaced.

Blocking is really strong (as it should be) and there are of course a handful of counters to block (as there should be). I even think the Destro ult should remain unblockable (after it gets nerfed )

I don't mind having a reflectable/deflectable Meteor as long as they bring back double reflect.

Rohamad_Ali

Yes please .

thankyourat

The root on rearming trap is too long it needs to be reduced to like two seconds. Roots as a whole need to be looked at. I think they should add root immunity to immovable pots

kevlarto_ESO

Some good stuff here I agree with almost all of it, but it will be a moot point of they do not get the cheat engine out of the game once and for all, the game will never be close to any kind of balance with out it gone.

Solariken

thankyourat wrote: »

The root on rearming trap is too long it needs to be reduced to like two seconds. Roots as a whole need to be looked at. I think they should add root immunity to immovable pots

I agree that there should be root immunity available via potions, but not added to immovable, that effect is already very strong. Root immunity should be its own effect.

Joy_Division

LeifErickson wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Fix wings.
Fix mist form.
Fix cloak.
Fix clouding swarm.
Fix gap closers.
Fix willows path.
Did I forget something?

Dragon Blood.

Dragon blood isn't broken to my knowledge. All of the things I listed are actually broken.

If you are going to claim Dragon Blood isn't broken, then Mist Form and Gap Closers are not broken either.

Taylor_MB

Grothdarr's damage box is far to great in the Y direction.

If it procs on someone on top floor of a corner keep tower it will hit people in the middle floor.

IxSTALKERxI

LeifErickson wrote: »

Fix clouding swarm.

Akinos

Make these templar skills and their morphs worth using.
1. Backlash
2. Eclipse
3. Healing Ritual

Wycks

Ever been knocked down the second you stand up from a knockdown.
Ever been hit with a petrify/fear or other cc combo and cant break out.
Ever had some dips**t just spam petrify and talons over and over using poisons.
Even been unable to get off the ground at all.

CC is broken.

Qbiken

Implosion, broken??? Pick one. A 3% chance to to 15k dmg when under 15% health. Please enlighten me how this is an issue in PvP?? hint: it isnt´t, storm skilline (or whatever it´s called) is one of the most well-designed skillines in the game, no need for chances here.

IxSTALKERxI

Akinos wrote: »

Make these templar skills and their morphs worth using.
1. Backlash
2. Eclipse
3. Healing Ritual

Should remove the snare every time you cast solar barrage to.

Publius_Scipio

How about infernal guardian miraculously procing against those quietly stealthed.

Viper's sting procing with ranged attacks.

Velidreth's 3 poison balls always flying out.... Simply because they are annoying to always see and never hit anyone paying attention anyways.

The tool tips make it seem procs are rare/special with saying "20% chance" to proc, etc. 20% in Tamriel must be something like 80% in the real world because when cool down is done, any blink of an eye or sneeze and the procs fire off.

Chuga_Rei

Qbiken wrote: »

Implosion, broken??? Pick one. A 3% chance to to 15k dmg when under 15% health. Please enlighten me how this is an issue in PvP?? hint: it isnt´t, storm skilline (or whatever it´s called) is one of the most well-designed skillines in the game, no need for chances here.

It's really annoying dying to someone who is running from you lol. I won't say it's broken but then again rarely do I fight Stan sorcs that aren't just a carbon copy of every other stam 1 hit wonder

Cinbri

1. Gap-closers will stop apply unresistable snare.
2. Gap-closers will stop making people fly like they are superman.
3. Fix unbrekeable CCs.
4. Classes buffs.

aidenmoore

Treat Mist Form just like Roll Dodge and Streak too!

Akinos

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Make these templar skills and their morphs worth using.
1. Backlash
2. Eclipse
3. Healing Ritual

Should remove the snare every time you cast solar barrage to.

Doh, forgot about one of my past favorite skills. And yeah they need to do something about it!

Lucky28

aidenmoore wrote: »

Treat Mist Form just like Roll Dodge and Streak too!

what, no. your magicka regen is disabled while in mist. it doesn't need anything else.

i would say make major expedition purge snares. then maybe magicka users wouldn't need to be shoehorned into mist.

Drummerx04

Lucky28 wrote: »

aidenmoore wrote: »

Treat Mist Form just like Roll Dodge and Streak too!

what, no. your magicka regen is disabled while in mist. it doesn't need anything else.

i would say make major expedition purge snares. then maybe magicka users wouldn't need to be shoehorned into mist.

Actually this would be fantastic assuming you mean that casting any skill that provides major expedition would purge snares rather than simply having the buff making you immune.

Had a group member get root spammed at Alessia bridge as a mNB without mistform. There was pretty much no way to get her out of that one.