got kicked for using a bow:/

bottleofsyrup

Like Azrael said, definitely stick to your normal melee rotation for Blood Spawn. The only two bosses you should need to main bow for are Engine Guardian and maybe the final boss of vet FG2. Despite that, your group should've just said you can melee that boss, so not sure why they lashed out like that unless they thought you were using only bow the whole dungeon for some reason.

HatchetHaro

If you were onky using your bow bar and no other weapons, then yes, they're justified in wanting to kick you.

Here's the thing: the bow alone will never output enough damage. Ever. It sucks at outputting direct burst damage and you're way better off simply applying the bow DoTs then running up and whacking them with your dual swords.

If you're stam, the best damage output is always going to be in melee range. No one cares how good you are with just the bow, because you'll still do better when doing it properly with your melees

Korah_Eaglecry

The sad state of Bows is to blame here. The fact that a group would look at a specific weapon class and decide that its useless in these situations over alternatives like Destro Staves. Then yeah. Its the sorry state of the bow.

But ZOS is going to tippy toe around this issue because theyre too afraid to tackle the issue. Its funny how they can confidently make wide sweeping changes to the game that no one or at the very least very few were asking for. But theyre shaking in their Adventurer Boots when it comes to the thought of making the Bow Weapon Class a more viable option in gameplay.

scorpiodog

Were you the tank?

Joke

Kendaric

Wow.... having read all that I know that I'll never try a dungeon or grouping in general in ESO.

FoolishHuman

Kendaric wrote: »

Wow.... having read all that I know that I'll never try a dungeon or grouping in general in ESO.

Couldn't agree more. Such inanity. Kick someone because he doesn't use the "right" skills, and then when he asks for support in the matter, telling him its "justified" too. Great sense of community!

sneakymitchell

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

@JakelDK Before I completely abandon thread, I'll post a video to you of my StamDK in action who uses a bow. Hopefully you can try and get a bit of insight as to what I mean about only using those 2 bow skills. Granted this is a video of me in Veteran Maelstrom Arena, but I use this setup in dungeons and trials. Except of course Caltrops being swapped out for something else, if there is already someone designated to using Caltrops. Kind of like how a group only wants 1 Nightmother's Gaze user. And no worries. Video is only like 40-something seconds.

Video:
https://youtu.be/frkv24EThSk

Bow on Stam DK = More Damage Pretty much.

bottleofsyrup

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

@JakelDK Before I completely abandon thread, I'll post a video to you of my StamDK in action who uses a bow. Hopefully you can try and get a bit of insight as to what I mean about only using those 2 bow skills. Granted this is a video of me in Veteran Maelstrom Arena, but I use this setup in dungeons and trials. Except of course Caltrops being swapped out for something else, if there is already someone designated to using Caltrops. Kind of like how a group only wants 1 Nightmother's Gaze user. And no worries. Video is only like 40-something seconds.

Video:
https://youtu.be/frkv24EThSk

Bow on Stam DK = More Damage Pretty much.

Nobody complained about him having a bow. Having a bow on your back bar for DoTs (Poison Injection, Endless Hail) is pretty standard for Stam DPS. His group apparently kicked him for using bow as his main attacks (not using his DW bar during that fight). OP says he only stayed on bow for that fight though and normally uses DW/Bow, so his group overreacted. He knew to stay out of the red, he just didn't realize the red on that fight doesn't hit that hard and you're supposed to be healed through it, which he now knows.

VinyParsley2016

Dungeon rule 1 - Always kick bow DPS! Always kick the coward hidden behind the healer!

Nervani

SadieJoan wrote: »

I agree completely, and bow is fun! If some guys kicked me from a group due to getting a bow out, they would have some serious whispers, because in a dungeon they would in fact be the ones to look like idiots for kicking a fourth member for such a dumb reason, perhaps it was nothing to do with you at all, and because they had another dps who wanted to join the group? I have seen this before... Its not your problem though, so just ignore them and find some normal people to play with

If you are on PC-EU and ever get stuck and need people to do dungeons with who are not judgemental arses, my friends and I would be more than happy to accompany you AND your bow

I need more friends like you in my ESO life
I mainly play dps (dw/bow) and as most of my friends aren't that active anymore I could use some new friends to guide me in right direction... Or something

Currently CP309. Feel free to add me: @MaryHex

failkiwib16_ESO

OP it doesn't matter what weapon you use if you pull enough dps to take down bosses before they reach their dps check limits. The gargoyle boss in Spindle II is a dps-check. If the dps is too low, then the roof collapses and the team wipes. My guess is if the other DD in group shaved 70%+ of the bosses health, then perhaps you should change gear or skills to deal more damage.
Regardless, nobody should be treated poorly, and I hope you never get grouped up with those people again - but do take a look at your build, and see if there are points where you can improve.

Kendaric wrote: »

Wow.... having read all that I know that I'll never try a dungeon or grouping in general in ESO.

@Kendaric I am curious, why?

Kolache

Personally, I would have only voted to kick if fights were dragging too long and extremely low dps contributes to multiple wipes. More like LOTS of wipes, (I'm very stubborn). At some point it's pretty much that or just give up, and 100% bow-user is just a 'best guess' at part of the problem.

Beyond that, I can't imagine why anyone would expect much out of a pug; I am biased though. Tanking affords quick queue times so I don't have to suffer such wieners.. and I don't have to worry about them deciding to not suffer me--I'll be back in a dungeon in minutes

Mush55

JakelDK wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Maybe something to do with the mechanics of that dungeon, or they were just jerks. If you name the dungeon perhaps someone can provide some insight.

it was vet spindleclutch 2 and the boss was the gargoyle

Tbf I'd have kicked you here's a little info, your bow bar is mainly a buff bar. Buff up then poison injection, endless hail swap to duel wield and go through your rotation and swap and do the above again keep repeating till boss mobs are dead.

Kendaric

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Wow.... having read all that I know that I'll never try a dungeon or grouping in general in ESO.

@Kendaric I am curious, why?

Pretty simple, really... I don't like being forced into "playing the right way". So to save myself and potential group members the trouble, I'll just avoid grouping.
Yes, there's a lot of content I never get to see, but I'm ok with that.

Skinzz

If anyone thinks bow dps is acceptable for dungeons then ask yourself this : if you were the tank or healer, would you want your two dps to use bows as their main source of dps? Lol.

Ajaxduo

xskinzcity wrote: »

If anyone thinks bow dps is acceptable for dungeons then ask yourself this : if you were the tank or healer, would you want your two dps to use bows as their main source of dps? Lol.

I wouldn't care, you don't need 40k dps + for dungeons. Also look at what is possible when you think outside of the box; http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/ people need to get over this 'meta or gtfo' silliness.

Mush55

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

JakelDK wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Maybe something to do with the mechanics of that dungeon, or they were just jerks. If you name the dungeon perhaps someone can provide some insight.

it was vet spindleclutch 2 and the boss was the gargoyle

Tbf I'd have kicked you here's a little info, your bow bar is mainly a buff bar. Buff up then poison injection, endless hail swap to duel wield and go through your rotation and swap and do the above again keep repeating till boss mobs are dead.

Imagine case where someone is using bow bar as main bar and are outputting same damage as you. Now wouldnt that be funny kicking him, because you are ignorant?

I can imagine lots of things but simple fact is bow dps is sub par compared to duel wield.

If that makes me ignorant then so be it but you can't argue with numbers that have been proven.

SodanTok

Mush55 wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

JakelDK wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Maybe something to do with the mechanics of that dungeon, or they were just jerks. If you name the dungeon perhaps someone can provide some insight.

it was vet spindleclutch 2 and the boss was the gargoyle

Tbf I'd have kicked you here's a little info, your bow bar is mainly a buff bar. Buff up then poison injection, endless hail swap to duel wield and go through your rotation and swap and do the above again keep repeating till boss mobs are dead.

Imagine case where someone is using bow bar as main bar and are outputting same damage as you. Now wouldnt that be funny kicking him, because you are ignorant?

I can imagine lots of things but simple fact is bow dps is sub par compared to duel wield.

If that makes me ignorant then so be it but you can't argue with numbers that have been proven.

Subpar means its less than DW. So would you kick DW hitting only 30k dps, because its subpar to people using DW to hit 40k dps? (just an example). You would not, but you would kick bow user hitting 40k, because they are subpar.

//EDIT:
What I am trying to say is that you know nothing. You dont even know you know nothing.

Mush55

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

JakelDK wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Maybe something to do with the mechanics of that dungeon, or they were just jerks. If you name the dungeon perhaps someone can provide some insight.

it was vet spindleclutch 2 and the boss was the gargoyle

Tbf I'd have kicked you here's a little info, your bow bar is mainly a buff bar. Buff up then poison injection, endless hail swap to duel wield and go through your rotation and swap and do the above again keep repeating till boss mobs are dead.

Imagine case where someone is using bow bar as main bar and are outputting same damage as you. Now wouldnt that be funny kicking him, because you are ignorant?

I can imagine lots of things but simple fact is bow dps is sub par compared to duel wield.

If that makes me ignorant then so be it but you can't argue with numbers that have been proven.

Subpar means its less than DW. So would you kick DW hitting only 30k dps, because its subpar to people using DW to hit 40k dps? (just an example). You would not, but you would kick bow user hitting 40k, because they are subpar.

Oh your so right I hope all my groups now are exclusively bow users infact I will now after this revelation kick any dps the dose not use a bow and relies on duel wield to do there main dps , how could I have been so wrong.

that was sarcasm in case you didn't get it..

Doctordarkspawn

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The sad state of Bows is to blame here. The fact that a group would look at a specific weapon class and decide that its useless in these situations over alternatives like Destro Staves. Then yeah. Its the sorry state of the bow.

But ZOS is going to tippy toe around this issue because theyre too afraid to tackle the issue. Its funny how they can confidently make wide sweeping changes to the game that no one or at the very least very few were asking for. But theyre shaking in their Adventurer Boots when it comes to the thought of making the Bow Weapon Class a more viable option in gameplay.

This. This. This, and this. WELL SAID.

ArchMikem

JakelDK wrote: »

mad0ni0n wrote: »

Right or wrong, as a dps the thing you are most likely to get kicked for is standing in the back with a bow. there's a reason doing that has a bad reputation, it does low dps. you should avoid doing it because it will annoy people. it's really not fair on the other dps who has to carry. imagine if both dps were both standing there with a bow, the group will wipe on bloodspawn long before you klll it that way.

in your opinion is the bow useless for dungeons?

My Stamblade isn't even a "teh pro" build and I get Lethal Arrow crits of 20k+ a hit, and I think 10K - 12K a hit with Poison Injection, and Arrow Barrage can be a useful AoE when it's paired with others. It's a great way to keep doing damage from afar if you're too squishy.

Alucardo

In some fights you do need to use the bow for a small period of time, because getting into melee range will get you killed. So if you can still DPS when that happens I would think that's a good thing?

SolarCat02

xskinzcity wrote: »

If anyone thinks bow dps is acceptable for dungeons then ask yourself this : if you were the tank or healer, would you want your two dps to use bows as their main source of dps? Lol.

As healer, I run with bow builds all the time. Heck, my husband used bow as his primary weapon for the longest time, and could carry groups and solo things. (He has since switched to dual wield as primary due to changes in the skills with the last update, but his old build was designed to perfectly mesh with our Templar tank at the time.)

There is nothing wrong with using a bow if the person using it knows what they are doing. It's fun!

I have also run with clueless dual wielders, and people insisting on using two hander PvP builds in dungeons because "This was the best I could find on the Internet and nobody will help me find something better and I didn't ask for your advice so shut up oh why won't anyone help me fix my build?"

It's not your weapon choice, it's your attitude.

ZOS_PeterT

Although we understand that sometimes users may disagree on topics we never condone name-calling or attacking of each other.

Please see our Community Guidelines for more information.

Grabmoore

One does not simply use Lethal arrow at bloodspawn fight. Also do not stand behind your healer, very basic stuff....

I wouldn't have kicked you, but I would've been angry to play with you for sure. Just why are people obsessed by Robin Hood?

SodanTok

Mush55 wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

JakelDK wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Maybe something to do with the mechanics of that dungeon, or they were just jerks. If you name the dungeon perhaps someone can provide some insight.

it was vet spindleclutch 2 and the boss was the gargoyle

Tbf I'd have kicked you here's a little info, your bow bar is mainly a buff bar. Buff up then poison injection, endless hail swap to duel wield and go through your rotation and swap and do the above again keep repeating till boss mobs are dead.

Imagine case where someone is using bow bar as main bar and are outputting same damage as you. Now wouldnt that be funny kicking him, because you are ignorant?

I can imagine lots of things but simple fact is bow dps is sub par compared to duel wield.

If that makes me ignorant then so be it but you can't argue with numbers that have been proven.

Subpar means its less than DW. So would you kick DW hitting only 30k dps, because its subpar to people using DW to hit 40k dps? (just an example). You would not, but you would kick bow user hitting 40k, because they are subpar.

Oh your so right I hope all my groups now are exclusively bow users infact I will now after this revelation kick any dps the dose not use a bow and relies on duel wield to do there main dps , how could I have been so wrong.

that was sarcasm in case you didn't get it..

Oh I got its sarcasm. I just dont think you know how to use sarcasm properly. Whats more, I dont think you understand anything properly until someone tells you how you should understand it. That would explain a lot.

In that case I will gladly, in some basic form explain how "being DPS" work. You deal damage. Low damage is bad, high damage is good. Weapons, gear and skills you use do achieve high damage do not matter.
You will finish everything as fast with DW 30k DPS as with unarmed 30k DPS.

CapnPhoton

Bow envy. Yours is bigger than theirs...

It happened to me too. I was backed off and into ranged attacks because of major AOE and the healer wasn't doing their job. Then I was kicked.

failkiwib16_ESO

Kendaric wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Wow.... having read all that I know that I'll never try a dungeon or grouping in general in ESO.

@Kendaric I am curious, why?

Pretty simple, really... I don't like being forced into "playing the right way". So to save myself and potential group members the trouble, I'll just avoid grouping.
Yes, there's a lot of content I never get to see, but I'm ok with that.

@Kendaric if you're generally a nice helpful person + slightly social (chit chatting), you'll get friends easily in this game ...among those friends, if you meet others like you who aren't experienced with grouping can meet up and do it together. If you struggle in any dungeon, just watch some videos of how the mechanics are done there and give it another try.

People in this thread are talking about living up to a certain standard when you join randoms as a specific role and don't live up to it. If you and 3 of your friends go do a dungeon together while all of you being badly or alternatively geared - people either don't care at all or they think it's good and encourage it.

exeeter702

HatchetHaro wrote: »

If you were onky using your bow bar and no other weapons, then yes, they're justified in wanting to kick you.

Here's the thing: the bow alone will never output enough damage. Ever. It sucks at outputting direct burst damage and you're way better off simply applying the bow DoTs then running up and whacking them with your dual swords.

If you're stam, the best damage output is always going to be in melee range. No one cares how good you are with just the bow, because you'll still do better when doing it properly with your melees

40k self buffed is absolutely enough dps for dungeons.

The problem is that you have uneducated sheeple that don't understand, and you have inexperienced players that don't know any better and just want to shoot a bow.

In reality, given the proper preparation, bow dps is entirely valid and viable. It just requires resources (vma/vdsa bows) that are generally put of reach for newer players.

To the op. Honestly you couldn't have chosen a worse fight to stay and range and use bow attacks as you did. Bloodspawn was and sometimes still is used as a dps metric for many players. Manu players know the timing of how long it should take to kill and how much dps it translates to from the group.

They made a call based on that most likely. Not that it matters since its a ducking 4 man dungeon and doesn't mean anything.

Mush55

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

JakelDK wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Maybe something to do with the mechanics of that dungeon, or they were just jerks. If you name the dungeon perhaps someone can provide some insight.

it was vet spindleclutch 2 and the boss was the gargoyle

Tbf I'd have kicked you here's a little info, your bow bar is mainly a buff bar. Buff up then poison injection, endless hail swap to duel wield and go through your rotation and swap and do the above again keep repeating till boss mobs are dead.

Imagine case where someone is using bow bar as main bar and are outputting same damage as you. Now wouldnt that be funny kicking him, because you are ignorant?

I can imagine lots of things but simple fact is bow dps is sub par compared to duel wield.

If that makes me ignorant then so be it but you can't argue with numbers that have been proven.

Subpar means its less than DW. So would you kick DW hitting only 30k dps, because its subpar to people using DW to hit 40k dps? (just an example). You would not, but you would kick bow user hitting 40k, because they are subpar.

Oh your so right I hope all my groups now are exclusively bow users infact I will now after this revelation kick any dps the dose not use a bow and relies on duel wield to do there main dps , how could I have been so wrong.

that was sarcasm in case you didn't get it..

Oh I got its sarcasm. I just dont think you know how to use sarcasm properly. Whats more, I dont think you understand anything properly until someone tells you how you should understand it. That would explain a lot.

In that case I will gladly, in some basic form explain how "being DPS" work. You deal damage. Low damage is bad, high damage is good. Weapons, gear and skills you use do achieve high damage do not matter.
You will finish everything as fast with DW 30k DPS as with unarmed 30k DPS.

Lol you should ask zos to put this info on the loading screen that way I would understand how to play my dps properly being as I need everything explained to me.