Should Snipe be the Bow Ultimate?

Toc de Malsvi

There is a ton of hate towards bow users and I can't blame them, Snipe is both a annoyingly frustrating skill to deal with in PVP at times and at the same time its incredibly weak and unresponsive to use outside of ganking or providing support.

Snipe would have been better served as an Ultimate that has a very high cost but also high damage and huge debuff's. This could very easily fill as a 300-400 ultimate that is basically a guaranteed one shot provided your stats are high enough but would rarely be available and would only effect one target. Bow build could actually plan to play as pseudo snipers and sacrifice ult to take out a strong PVP opponent, or majorly debuff an end game boss.

Rapid fire would be so much more interesting as either a short burst channel like Sweeps or Flurry, or as a direct buff to rapidly increase bow light/heavy attack speeds. Making bow's feel much more responsive and competitive while drawing back on the ganking power.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

No.

Bow is the weakest weapon line man all we really have is Poison Injection and Snipe. Acid Spray and Endless Hail are both great in PvE but in PvP they are just plain bad. Scatter Shot is a sick joke. Outside of ganking and buffing bow is trash.
My main mains a Bow it's just bad in an open fight now when I solo gankers it's definitely great but in a real fight just no.

SnubbS

Snipe should be turned into a spammable. Lower the damage 15-20% & remove the cast time.

jircris11

No.

why do pvpers always insist on making changes because something is "OP" in pvp. we all know that it effects pve as well yet they don't seem to give two flying cares. Until this game finds out how to separate pvp and pve balance changes (like MANY other mmos do) i would say no to more nerfs. Personally i have not been smacked by snipe in pvp, just learn what to look out for and do not be oblivious to the places people like to hide.

Taylor_MB

No.

jircris11 wrote: »

why do pvpers always insist on making changes because something is "OP" in pvp. we all know that it effects pve as well yet they don't seem to give two flying cares. Until this game finds out how to separate pvp and pve balance changes (like MANY other mmos do) i would say no to more nerfs. Personally i have not been smacked by snipe in pvp, just learn what to look out for and do not be oblivious to the places people like to hide.

Who even uses Snipe in PvE?

Aquanova

No.

Nothing wrong with the ultimate we have now!

Milvan

No.

Bow needs a spammable dps ability asap. It's not viable as dps beacuse of the lack of it.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

No.

Not unless snipes damage was increased by about 50%

TheShadowScout

Snipe and its ilk used to be harder hitting but slower, but they changed that because it was too one-shot-kill-from-stealth ganky over in cyrodil.

So I would not hold my breath for them to make that sort of ultimate...

Toc de Malsvi

Yes.

jircris11 wrote: »

why do pvpers always insist on making changes because something is "OP" in pvp. we all know that it effects pve as well yet they don't seem to give two flying cares. Until this game finds out how to separate pvp and pve balance changes (like MANY other mmos do) i would say no to more nerfs. Personally i have not been smacked by snipe in pvp, just learn what to look out for and do not be oblivious to the places people like to hide.

Nothing to do with PVP, don't use Snipe in PVE cause its slow and unresponsive, you can only really use it on boss fights, and there is a delay in the beginning of your dps with it, then the last couple snipes will miss because your target will be dead. Meaning you will deal less damage overall even if you are able to pull okay dps.

Toc de Malsvi

Yes.

Aquanova wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the ultimate we have now!

Actually there is, as a channel the damage is not high enough for it to be a dps gain, it is a dps loss. For PVP it is easily negated by CC or dodge roll. It may look neat and have a high tool tip but the actual value of it is not great.

Toc de Malsvi

Yes.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Not unless snipes damage was increased by about 50%

That was implied in the original post:

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

. . . Snipe would have been better served as an Ultimate that has a very high cost but also high damage and huge debuff's. . .

Toc de Malsvi

Yes.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Snipe and its ilk used to be harder hitting but slower, but they changed that because it was too one-shot-kill-from-stealth ganky over in cyrodil.

So I would not hold my breath for them to make that sort of ultimate...

That really isn't same issue. There is a significant difference between a spammable skill where 3 can be launched before the first hits, and a 300-400 cost ultimate you wouldn't be able to spam it, even with ult reduction sets. Even if you took those sets you wouldn't have it up that often and your power on the ult itself would be significantly diminished.

Korah_Eaglecry

Leave Snipe alone. Honestly its the one good ability Bow Users have and its not even that great outside of fights where the User is on a wall or coming out of stealth. Outside of that the skillline is garbage and making it an ultimate will do nothing but further bury the skillline.

jeevin

No.

The skill is aptly named me thinks. Why not remove sniper rifles from Battlefield games too?

DHale

No.

If there was no lag snipe would never kill anyone when there was no lag I could hear the snipe block then kill the pesky sniper. On my magic DK I would reflect and watch the sniper fall over dead. Now they can get two snipes off and you just fall off your horse dead. Thanks ZOS.

Vythri

How 'bout this instead: (comment)

My whole idea for the bow skill line has a few different tweaks to it.

1. Don't touch the ult. The bow turret morph is great and allows me to continue using other skills.
2. And this one will be unpopular for anybody that's not a bow build. Change the execution portion of poison injection to apply on the up front damage of the skill, and NOT the dot portion. The dot can still tick, but you don't get a free execute and then get to swap to a melee weapon and do another. That means you don't have to worry about never getting the benefit of the DoT from constant reapplying. Basically as the skill is now, it benefits melee users a whole lot more than bow users for that reason and that just can't happen.
3. Decrease the flight time of snipe, remove the audio cue, reduce its damage, and make it unreflectable with a cooldown on the unreflectable portion (but still can be dodged). No class should absolutely and completely negate everything another player can do.
4. Increase the casting distance of Draining Shot. It's a joke that it's only 10m right now. How can somebody infinitely gap close me, yet I have zero way to try and combat it? Even if I hit them, they'll CC break and be immune for 6 seconds allowing them to continue to gap close as much as they want. Oh, and stop the heal portion to be tied to actually CC'ing somebody and instead put it on a cooldown. At least that way it's more reliable.
5. Rework/rename the Long Shots passive to give me some benefit for close quarters combat. As I said before, I can be gap closed indefinitely. So basically that passive gives me no benefit in a real fight when I'm not ganking.

Again, I'm not looking to get any skill to be overpowered. My main goal is to see bow be more competitive outside of a pure ganking role. Of course all of the things I suggest will need to have numbers adjusted for balance.

Doctordarkspawn

Never nerf a skill line or skill expressly for PVP. Ever.

To argue for it is idiocy. The reverse, equally so.

Vythri

How 'bout this instead: (comment)

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Never nerf a skill line or skill expressly for PVP. Ever.

To argue for it is idiocy. The reverse, equally so.

I don't know if that was in response to the OP or me, but for me I don't want a Snipe nerf. I want the flight time reduced so it hits faster and the damage reduced to compensate. The result being similar DPS but lower burst. If you're going to make it hit more reliably, it can't still one shot people either.

I guess it's either the flight time or the cast time.

Doctordarkspawn

Vythri wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Never nerf a skill line or skill expressly for PVP. Ever.

To argue for it is idiocy. The reverse, equally so.

I don't know if that was in response to the OP or me, but for me I don't want a Snipe nerf. I want the flight time reduced so it hits faster and the damage reduced to compensate. The result being similar DPS but lower burst. If you're going to make it hit more reliably, it can't still one shot people either.

I guess it's either the flight time or the cast time.

It's a general statement, because I know it was going to basicly be said eventually.

Bow needs reworked. This isn't news. But changes made souly to benefit a small, maybe 20% part of this game is stupid, and it shouldn't happen. Bow needs to be reworked to a good weapon skill in both modes in it's own right. Not be nerfed for PVP.

Johngo0036

No.

I have a NB who uses a bow and i dont even run Snipe as it is too slow to actually hit the target,

ArchMikem

No.

Taylor_MB wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

why do pvpers always insist on making changes because something is "OP" in pvp. we all know that it effects pve as well yet they don't seem to give two flying cares. Until this game finds out how to separate pvp and pve balance changes (like MANY other mmos do) i would say no to more nerfs. Personally i have not been smacked by snipe in pvp, just learn what to look out for and do not be oblivious to the places people like to hide.

Who even uses Snipe in PvE?

I do? Lethal Arrow is my bread and butter in most encounters. Spamming that, Poison Injection and light/heavy attacking is practically what my Nightblade ever does.

Enslaved

No.

As someone who frequently use bow in both PvP and PvE, I must say that snipe is pretty weak*, can be easily countered, and bow already have pathetic ulti, considering the fact that it can be dodged easily, or even interrupted if enemy uses the poison morph instead of turret. Also, if you are one shotted by snipe, you are doing something wrong. Either you are butt naked, no crit resistance, or less than 20k HP.

* - by weak, I mean compared to surprise attack, any other gap closer that can just trigger multiple proc sets that most of ppl wear in PvP.

Julianos

No.

With so many spammable gap closers being a competitive archer in PVP is just a dream.

Bow is a utiliy weapon for ganking or for some specific fights in pve or extra speed after roll dodge.

Also bows shouldnt fire from close range like 5 meters because in reality arrows wont pierce anything at melee range they need to fly and gain momentum

Dymence

No.

Yeah... no.

Nothing should one shot people without counterplay. Doesn't matter if the ult would cost 1000, it should simply not one shot.

Alucardo

No.

Fix the health desyncs and the lag which causes 2-3 snipes to hit you all at once, and the skill will be fine. The only reason this skill is unfair is because of them two reasons.
I really detest the lag on it. Imagine being hit with 2 wrecking blows before you're even aware.

Knootewoot

No.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Snipe and its ilk used to be harder hitting but slower, but they changed that because it was too one-shot-kill-from-stealth ganky over in cyrodil.

So I would not hold my breath for them to make that sort of ultimate...

And it also had a minimum range to be used. Up close you could not use it. (range was 20-40 m)

SodanTok

No.

Few pages of text could be written about how bow is bad and what should be fixed. This is not it. Making snipe ultimate and rapid fire skill would kill bow in PVP and barely help in PVE. Snipe is high damage burst skill over great range with flight time and cast time and as such its best used in PVP. Keep it there.

Problem is in PVE, where maining bow, means you have to spam snipe too, because you don't have anything else. Right now, you cast endless hail, poison injection like all other stam builds, but instead swapping to your high dps melee build you can only watch the dots tick or spam snipe...
Of course some easy changes could fix that, but they could incur wrath of melee builds. Like making poison injection deal more damage on impact, but less on DoT...

EvilCroc

Yes.

Yes. Make snipe an awesome looking, high damage, high cost ultimate. Make current ultimate good universal spammable like sweeps or flurry.

Asardes

No.

Snipe sucks badly even as non-ultimate skill. It's a niche skill I only use in certain fights that are exclussively ranged (ex. Planar Inhibitor in blue phase, Engine Guardian in red phase, Nerien'eth before he grabs the sword, Lord Warden dusk) and then only as debuff and increased range for the rest of the team. In PvP I only use it in sieges to target enemy players that don't pay attention. If that were an ultimate, I won't put points in it even if I had all skill points in the game.

jircris11

No.

Taylor_MB wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

why do pvpers always insist on making changes because something is "OP" in pvp. we all know that it effects pve as well yet they don't seem to give two flying cares. Until this game finds out how to separate pvp and pve balance changes (like MANY other mmos do) i would say no to more nerfs. Personally i have not been smacked by snipe in pvp, just learn what to look out for and do not be oblivious to the places people like to hide.

Who even uses Snipe in PvE?

you would be amazed actually. there ARE those who are not elitest pricks such as your self. besides 2 hits from snipe drops most if not all but named mobs.