Cyrodiil (and the internet in general) are not a "safe space"

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Crown
Crown
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In reply to two conversations in-game this weekend, and another thread that shouldn't be derailed further, I'm posting this in a new thread.

I believe that this is an important concept that too few people understand.
Enodoc wrote: »
It's not some sort of joke. Someone found the previous thread title "uncomfortable" (their words) and I passed their concerns on to ZOS. PTSD and DID are very serious mental health issues, and making light of that is demeaning. I won't derail the thread further, but I'd be happy to discuss it over PM.

@Enodoc My understanding of DID is that it's close to multiple personality disorder and have little to no knowledge on the topic. PTSD on the other hand is something I'm very familiar with, and all the people who claim "triggered" at the drop of a hat for anything they don't like have no idea what that word really means.

A few years ago I ran into a burning house to save my family. Everyone got out (pets included) with minimal harm. To me, PTSD means that when friends invite us over, and have the fireplace running, if I sit in sight of it for too long then I'm going to wake up screaming in the middle of the night with memories of things that I hope nobody ever has to experience. Sometimes I wake up like that regardless.

Getting killed in-game by a series of viper/velidreth procs is not something that "triggers" people.

All that people who claim "triggered" do in my case is make me think that they're uneducated cretins or kids who hop on the terminology band wagon without being able to think for themselves. I'm not offended or upset at all, just disappointed at the lack of critical thinking and individualisation that exists in today's 20-something and under player base (and the generation in general). In some cases I personally find them to be rather funny, though I do have a rather different sense of humour.

The important note there is that this is in my case - other people react differently and I understand that. These other people who are "triggered" or "made uncomfortable" by reasonable jokes or such terminology should probably avoid MMOs and the internet in general - it shouldn't be up to everyone else to not-trigger them. @Enodoc I don't know what the previous thread title was (and would appreciate a PM with it if you don't mind), but unless it was directly threatening someone or contained terminology that implied direct physical harm, there are very few situations that I can agree with forcibly changing text written by someone else.

On that topic, one of the reasons my wife stopped playing this game was due to these.. less than intelligent kids. The guild leader of a long standing PvP guild didn't like me, and stated that he would track us down in real life, then violate her with a baseball bat - again because he was upset with me. He has been perma-banned, though many of his friends seem to think that whispering HER with things like that when she logs in is funny. They don't directly threaten to do the same, just bring up the topic, so ZOS' position on it is that they can't do anything other than suggest she block them. Her blocked list reached the maximum allowable number of people, and many of her friends are playing other games (BDO), so she's perfectly happy not playing ESO anymore.

Rather than try to make everyone else conform to what she wanted, she did the adult thing and removed herself from a situation that she wasn't happy with. She still plays with us (when the old crew gets together) occasionally, and enough time has passed that people have apparently forgotten about this, but the fact remains that she and her friends won't likely ever come back to this game as regular players.

The internet is not a "safe space". This is a game meant for mature audiences. People will always be people.
Crown | AD NB | First AD/NA Grand Overlord (2015/12/26)
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  • Taylor_MB
    Taylor_MB
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    My title was-

    *triggered*
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  • Crown
    Crown
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    Taylor_MB wrote: »
    My title was- *triggered*

    @Taylor_MB Seriously..? I thought it must have been something a lot more... messed up... My response is even more in context than I had believed it to be!

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  • Taylor_MB
    Taylor_MB
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    Yeah, seriously.

    I'm sorry your wife had a bad time in game (internet usually brings the worst out in people unfortunately), but glad she still plays occasionally with your tight group.
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  • bikerangelo
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  • Takes-No-Prisoner
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    It's not classy at all for folks to be jerks. Hopefully she can find a way to forgive them in their ignorance. We can't assume those harassing her we're of their right mind. Speaking of which....

    South Park's current running season has a pretty great series going on about internet trolling and how it really shows who those people are like. Both online and offline. You and your wifey should give it a watch! It's certainly been a wild roller-coaster ride so far.
    Spoiler
    Especially with Cartman getting a girlfriend, that really takes him out of his normal self LOL
  • Bone_Demon
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    poof
    Edited by Bone_Demon on October 31, 2016 2:46PM
  • Crown
    Crown
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    South Park's current running season has a pretty great series going on about internet trolling and how it really shows who those people are like. Both online and offline. You and your wifey should give it a watch! It's certainly been a wild roller-coaster ride so far.
    Spoiler
    Especially with Cartman getting a girlfriend, that really takes him out of his normal self LOL

    Shouldn't have cancelled our Hulu subscription.. Netflix needs southpark!

    The incident happened a year ago, and it's water under the bridge. Never forget, though if you dwell on things like that you just give other people power over you. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Watching as the people you hate suffer can be very satisfying, but long term it doesn't really give you much.
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  • Skitttles
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    Agreed. I'm only 24 but I can't help but laugh at my generations sensitivity.
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  • Humphie
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    A friend of mine got harrassed this past weekend in zone Chats. Calling her by @name and claimed her to mess with several people at the same time. Naming those @names too.
    That kind of stuff is not ok and has no place anywhere. I really get mad about things like this. That is beyond trolling. Personal attacks are pathetic and those ****** should crawl back to the mudhole they came from.
  • Takes-No-Prisoner
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    Crown wrote: »

    Shouldn't have cancelled our Hulu subscription.. Netflix needs southpark!

    The incident happened a year ago, and it's water under the bridge. Never forget, though if you dwell on things like that you just give other people power over you. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Watching as the people you hate suffer can be very satisfying, but long term it doesn't really give you much.

    Silly, you can watch it for free on South Park's official website. :) Be prepared for advertisements though... that may or may not be creepy.

    Yeah, learning how to forgive has probably been one of the more challenging things I've had to learn how to do in my part of the world.
  • timidobserver
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    I feel sorry for easily offended, overly sensitive people that spend a lot of time being upset about things that other people say. It must be a hard life.
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  • Chuga_Rei
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    I didnt need this today crown. Such a fitting post for a monday.
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  • Sunburnt_Penguin
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    I feel sorry for easily offended, overly sensitive people that spend a lot of time being upset about things that other people say. It must be a hard life.
    Why're you being so unnecessarily condescending!?!??!??!!!!!!
  • Crown
    Crown
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    Silly, you can watch it for free on South Park's official website. :) Be prepared for advertisements though... that may or may not be creepy.

    NICE! I didn't know that existed - granted I never bothered to look for it either.. Thanks!
    Yeah, learning how to forgive has probably been one of the more challenging things I've had to learn how to do in my part of the world.

    I don't forgive, or forget, I just don't dwell on things and don't let them bother me. Someone once said that forgiveness is permission to do it again (wise words when talking about one of our friends' cheating ex about 20 years ago).. Whether you forgive someone or not, it shouldn't change how you think about them or feel about what they did. If it was something reprehensible, then just remove them from your life, ignore them, or block them as you can. There's no need to keep the negativity around.
    Humphie wrote: »
    A friend of mine got harassed this past weekend in zone Chats. Calling her by @name and claimed her to mess with several people at the same time. Naming those @names too.
    That kind of stuff is not ok and has no place anywhere. I really get mad about things like this. That is beyond trolling. Personal attacks are pathetic and those ****** should crawl back to the mudhole they came from.

    @Humphie I agree, but unfortunately people will be people, and the grand majority of them out there don't care about each other and tend to try to bring other people down in order to make themselves feel good. @manny254 (Mojican) and I get harassed in zone all the time.. We're the only AD AR50 players at the moment (Komodo is close now too), and if we made so much AP we MUST have cheated! It's quite entertaining to respond to some of the accusers and get them all riled up. If you let uneducated cretins with the mental capacity and emotional maturity of parrots get you upset, you're going to have a tough time in games - and in the real world! You'll find that most of them get REALLY REALLY upset when you ignore them, and they get more and more abusive saying more and more outlandish things just so that people will pay attention to them and make them feel that they're worth something..
    Crown | AD NB | First AD/NA Grand Overlord (2015/12/26)
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  • Crown
    Crown
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    Chuga_Rei wrote: »
    I didnt need this today crown. Such a fitting post for a monday.

    @Chuga_Rei Does this make you feel better:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iPMazni3FA
    Edited by Crown on October 31, 2016 3:31PM
    Crown | AD NB | First AD/NA Grand Overlord (2015/12/26)
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  • Humphie
    Humphie
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    Crown wrote: »

    NICE! I didn't know that existed - granted I never bothered to look for it either.. Thanks!

    I don't forgive, or forget, I just don't dwell on things and don't let them bother me. Someone once said that forgiveness is permission to do it again (wise words when talking about one of our friends' cheating ex about 20 years ago).. Whether you forgive someone or not, it shouldn't change how you think about them or feel about what they did. If it was something reprehensible, then just remove them from your life, ignore them, or block them as you can. There's no need to keep the negativity around.

    @Humphie I agree, but unfortunately people will be people, and the grand majority of them out there don't care about each other and tend to try to bring other people down in order to make themselves feel good. @manny254 (Mojican) and I get harassed in zone all the time.. We're the only AD AR50 players at the moment (Komodo is close now too), and if we made so much AP we MUST have cheated! It's quite entertaining to respond to some of the accusers and get them all riled up. If you let uneducated cretins with the mental capacity and emotional maturity of parrots get you upset, you're going to have a tough time in games - and in the real world! You'll find that most of them get REALLY REALLY upset when you ignore them, and they get more and more abusive saying more and more outlandish things just so that people will pay attention to them and make them feel that they're worth something..

    Hard to ignore when you get constantly harrassed in all zone chats though. :(
    My ignore list has 89 people on it by now...saddely half of them EP (my faction). People suck sometimes.
  • Lava_Croft
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    What worries me even more is that apparently all you have to do is contact someone with @Enodoc's standing to get ZOS to do things like change a thread title that wasn't even remotely offensive nor breaking any rules.

    It's such a blatant case of blind favoritism that it kind of worries me about the people moderating these forums.
  • Sanct16
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    @Crown

    Nowadays you have to be happy if your thread doesn't get closed "for profanity".
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  • Rohamad_Ali
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    Considering I've never been hurt in real life from the Internet it sort of is a safe space for me . Like all things in life you get what you put in . If you walk into a uncomfortable conversation instead of ignoring it , brace for impact . If you like South Park you will notice several episodes were Kyle and Stan just refuse to comment during an episode an say "I'm not touching this one dude" . Those episodes always end with "aren't you glad we didn't go there this time." By Stan . When I see a bad conversation I just don't touch it and every day is happy endings .
  • Gothren
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    I agree, but lets not overuse the word "triggered". The internet has some messed up people that think that they can say whatever they want using the guise of free speech. For example, a few weeks ago some doucheb*g was trying to justify the Armenian genocide. I don't know about you, but certain things similar to that should not be considered "triggered". Especially when we are talking about the systematic mass starvation, murder, torture, and r*pe of an entire ethnic minority.
    Edited by Gothren on October 31, 2016 4:07PM
  • rfennell_ESO
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    Skitttles wrote: »
    Agreed. I'm only 24 but I can't help but laugh at my generations sensitivity.

    In truth, I don't think it's "sensitivity" at all. It's recognition that they can make an issue out of something, even though it's really not an issue.

    The problem isn't necessarily with them... it's with those that allow the manipulation.

    To clarify, it's highly unlikely that many people are actually offended by most the things they make issues of. It's that they are lawyering up on issues to make a case against someone. For instance... does adding the suffix tard really upset people? My take on it is not really, but they know they can wrangle a hate speech argument out of it and appeal to authority over it.
  • Crown
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    @Takes-No-Prisoner I'm watching season 20 episode 1 right now.. giant *** vs turd sandwich (I wonder if those are considered "bad" words - we'll see when i hit post). I'm laughing so hard I almost choked on my lunch twice!

    EDIT: Apparently the term for the product that cleans out orifices isn't allowed.
    Edited by Crown on October 31, 2016 4:28PM
    Crown | AD NB | First AD/NA Grand Overlord (2015/12/26)
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  • Lava_Croft
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    Anyone is free to believe whatever they want, as long as they do not impede on other people's freedom to believe whatever they want.
    Edited by Lava_Croft on October 31, 2016 4:28PM
  • LeifErickson
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    I always see a lot of threads of people complaining about harassment and people sending them mean whispers or disrespecting them in group. From reading this thread, I also see that people put a lot of people on their ignore list. I'm not sure if I am just lucky or what, but this kind of thing rarely happens to me. My ignore list is empty and I can count on one hand how many times I have done a dungeon with someone who disrespected someone else in the group. I hate to ask this, but are people just asking to get harassed or what?
  • The Uninvited
    The Uninvited
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    Crown wrote: »
    All that people who claim "triggered" do in my case is make me think that they're uneducated cretins or kids who hop on the terminology band wagon without being able to think for themselves. I'm not offended or upset at all, just disappointed at the lack of critical thinking and individualisation that exists in today's 20-something and under player base (and the generation in general). In some cases I personally find them to be rather funny, though I do have a rather different sense of humour.

    The important note there is that this is in my case - other people react differently and I understand that. These other people who are "triggered" or "made uncomfortable" by reasonable jokes or such terminology should probably avoid MMOs and the internet in general - it shouldn't be up to everyone else to not-trigger them.

    As someone who has PTSD as well, I tip my hat to you.

    It isn't up to everyone else to avoid triggers, especially since they don't know who's on the other end.

    Edit: I draw the line at real threats like they did to your wife, by the way.
    Edited by The Uninvited on October 31, 2016 4:48PM
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  • Takes-No-Prisoner
    Takes-No-Prisoner
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    Crown wrote: »
    @Takes-No-Prisoner I'm watching season 20 episode 1 right now.. giant *** vs turd sandwich (I wonder if those are considered "bad" words - we'll see when i hit post). I'm laughing so hard I almost choked on my lunch twice!

    EDIT: Apparently the term for the product that cleans out orifices isn't allowed.

    You are most welcome 1.0 Go now, embrace Matt Stone and Trey Parker once more.
    Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on October 31, 2016 4:46PM
  • rfennell_ESO
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    The thing that confuses me is: Triggered.

    Is that a joke or something real?

    I've seen it used, always thought it was sarcasm... If it's not... well, lol... the times are a changing (and not for the better).
  • The Uninvited
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    The thing that confuses me is: Triggered.

    Is that a joke or something real?

    I've seen it used, always thought it was sarcasm... If it's not... well, lol... the times are a changing (and not for the better).

    A "trigger" is something that reminds a PTSD sufferer of the actual event that caused the PTSD, making it so that it causes the reaction to that event to happen again.

    And agreed, times aren't changing for the better with the way it is used nowadays.
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  • Psilent
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    @Crown sorry your wife had to go through that; my dealings with you as an enemy have always been fun and mature.

    Makes you wonder why the ignore list has a limit.

    Also unrelated, but I found it was much easier to farm gold, and faster, than sitting in Crimson Cove for gear. :P
    Edited by Psilent on October 31, 2016 5:11PM
  • gangrel206
    As a non native english speaker, i wasn't even awared that trigger also has this meaning... this is a very common word, specially in computer programming
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