Dat Destro Ulti ....

Ernest145

I haven't been pvping much lately so haven't seen numbers this high, but I would imagine the best counter would be to mist and not try to out heal it while the person can still attack and cc you.

I rather them just take away the morph that lets it follow you so you have to at least think about where you want to place it. It is a really op ultimate, but I feel like if they take away the ability for it to travel with you that will be enough. If you are fighting bad players they will either not move out or will be too slow and die, if you are fighting better players they will take a lot of damage still and will escape but if you time a cc with it they will probably die. No reason why you should just carry this ultimate and gap close spam with how much damage it does.

For people complaining about how "this is all magicka has" and "this balances stam vs magicka" thinking like that on top of ZOS poor decision making is what made the game how it is now. I'm sure everyone can agree how ridicules stam and proc builds are, but making everything op isn't the way to go. Doesn't really matter though I've already lost all hope in any balance with the direction this game has been heading and with all the new sets, builds have been getting more ridiculous every patch and will continue to with more cp, sets, and bad decisions.

Glory

I think it may be useful to make incremental changes to the ultimate. My order of potential changes to try out:

1. Make it have a telegraph similar to proxy so it's possible to see if you're even inside it.
2. Make adjustments to its damage ticks to bring it in line if need be. Potentially adjust it in other ways to maintain its potency (it is 250 ult after all), perhaps adding back the duration but lowering the tick etc.
3. Possibly make it blockable. Idk about this one.

Also, why is everyone asking for yet another skill to be negated? I find it hilarious that everyone its looking to reduce the effectiveness of a new ultimate by making negate (which is already insanely, insanely strong) counter it fully. I also find it funny that its reasonable to request it get negated but there is no demand for stamina skills to be negated still.

zyk

Ernest145 wrote: »

For people complaining about how "this is all magicka has" and "this balances stam vs magicka" thinking like that on top of ZOS poor decision making is what made the game how it is now. I'm sure everyone can agree how ridicules stam and proc builds are, but making everything op isn't the way to go. Doesn't really matter though I've already lost all hope in any balance with the direction this game has been heading and with all the new sets, builds have been getting more ridiculous every patch and will continue to with more cp, sets, and bad decisions.

Again, it's not as if people are asking for it to be introduced to the game. It is already here. It is one of dozens of contentious items. So why should it be balanced before anything else?

I think the consensus is that it's unbalanced. Few, if any, are advocating keeping it like this forever. But to balance it before everything else OP would be a mistake and unfair to magicka players who haven't already sold out to OP Stamriel builds -- like almost everyone, it seems.

Chuga_Rei

I hate that though I dont agree, I completely understand where other magicka users are coming from.

Stoopid_Nwah

Jules wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Try to move out of the AoE next time it hits really hard if u just stand in it

Yeah I'm not sure if you're aware but theres a morph that follows the person overhead soooooo.... "just moving out of it" can be fairly difficult sometimes.

But why move out of it when you has a house and like it's so strong like no one will want to like go in it because it will be like so bad for them /s.

Manoekin

It's the only thing that makes playing magicka fun imo. Blocking it would be nice imo, but other than that when I die to it it's because I'm in a bad position, or I'm completely surrounded by enemy negates so I'm just not allowed to play the game at that point based on my build choice. Also, it shouldn't go through walls.

IxSTALKERxI

Minno wrote: »

I'm told this spell is completely negated by a sorcs negate. If this is true, that should remain a counter if the dmg is to remain the level it's at.

The morph that is placed on the ground can be negated, just like other ground targeted ultimates. The Eots morph which follows you around acts just like batswarm, once it is cast on yourself it stays on you. You can't activate any ultimates while standing in a negate though.

frozywozy wrote: »

1) The fire version of this ultimate is barely visible when used in tight places. You have to literally move your camera 45degrees above your head to see it.

2) In high latency situations, like any other ultimate in the game, the red circle or both the red circle and the ultimate animation becomes invisible.

3) This ultimate is very hard to negate for some reasons.

4) This ultimate clips through walls / objects.

It's easy to be caught off guard in large scale fights due to the ultimate being poorly visible. It's possible to not realise you are inside one until chunks of your health bar start disappearing.


The ultimate should hit hard - but I think the exact amount needs to be fine tuned. When the ultimate first was on PTS it did similar damage as a bat swarm or nova without the added benefits of those skills which is why I was one of the many people who said it needed to be buffed. I think the buff was slightly overkill though. (Some people actually suggested it should function completely different rather than another AoE alternative which makes sense.)

I don't think it should be nerfed too hard - it still needs to hit much harder then other aoe ultimates, but if you look closely at health bars of enemies inside this ultimate, you can see how fast people melt, which is why I suggested a 25% reduction per tick. Perhaps the ultimate that is placed on the ground can retain a higher overall damage (it can be negated) and be comparable to meteor pve dps (got to keep the pve'ers happy right) and keep it as a strong area of denial. Then the morph that is cast on yourself does slightly lower damage per tick but adjust cost / duration to compensate? The cost of the ultimate is justified by the duration imo. If you give it a long duration it should be more expensive due to the ability to build ultimate with killing blows etc in between so keep that in mind when balancing duration vs cost.

There is a stam / magicka imbalance but that doesn't mean the destro ultimate doesn't need some fine tuning.

GreenSoup2HoT

The-Baconator wrote: »

The biggest issue I have with the ultimate is that it lacks counter play of any kind. The stupid damage itself wouldn't be an issue if there was a semi reliable way to mitigate\negate it beyond simply trying to escape the radius or heal\shield through it, and that goes for group v group and smallscale.

Remember when i was saying this ultimate would be over-powered before they buffed the Destro Ultimate? It's like i've seen this kind of ability before.....(guild wars 2).

Ernest145

zyk wrote: »

Ernest145 wrote: »

For people complaining about how "this is all magicka has" and "this balances stam vs magicka" thinking like that on top of ZOS poor decision making is what made the game how it is now. I'm sure everyone can agree how ridicules stam and proc builds are, but making everything op isn't the way to go. Doesn't really matter though I've already lost all hope in any balance with the direction this game has been heading and with all the new sets, builds have been getting more ridiculous every patch and will continue to with more cp, sets, and bad decisions.

Again, it's not as if people are asking for it to be introduced to the game. It is already here. It is one of dozens of contentious items. So why should it be balanced before anything else?

I think the consensus is that it's unbalanced. Few, if any, are advocating keeping it like this forever. But to balance it before everything else OP would be a mistake and unfair to magicka players who haven't already sold out to OP Stamriel builds -- like almost everyone, it seems.

I understand that and I'm not asking for this to be balanced before anything else. Almost everyone agrees how ridiculous stam builds are, there are plenty of threads about proc builds, stam builds, shuffle, etc. I'm just saying that zos should also look at ways to balance this ultimate. If ZOS doesn't want to change the way stam builds are then sure leave the ultimate and let pvp continue to be crap, more so than it has been in forever.

Hektik_V

We need more proc sets like viper and veli so the game can play for you.

The-Baconator

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

The-Baconator wrote: »

The biggest issue I have with the ultimate is that it lacks counter play of any kind. The stupid damage itself wouldn't be an issue if there was a semi reliable way to mitigate\negate it beyond simply trying to escape the radius or heal\shield through it, and that goes for group v group and smallscale.

Remember when i was saying this ultimate would be over-powered before they buffed the Destro Ultimate? It's like i've seen this kind of ability before.....(guild wars 2).

Except everyone is using the PBAoE morph and plenty of people realized how OP it would be when they doubled the dps. The problem at the time was the justified concern over the very purpose of the ultimate--why are you making a 250 ult cost AoE that only does damage, which essentially means it has to be OP to even be usable, when magicka users have been requesting an ult comparable to dawnbreaker ever since it was given to stam builds--which appeared to be taken as "this ult sucks, what is the purpose of this," instead of "no one asked for this and 99% of people want something else, so what is the purpose of this?"

Bashev

@Wrobel be a man and make some changes and dont wait till next patch. The eye of the storm ultimate should be with less damage or blockable or reduce the range to 5m or whatever you want. Just change it. Otherwise in 2-3 weeks every organized group will be charging ulties and spam the hell out of this OP skill. Even now there are a lot of groups using it.

According to me the best solution will be to reduce the radius to 5m. Then it will be still OP when you are outnumbered but it will not synergize so well with zergs.

FloppyTouch

Bashev wrote: »

@Wrobel be a man and make some changes and dont wait till next patch. The eye of the storm ultimate should be with less damage or blockable or reduce the range to 5m or whatever you want. Just change it. Otherwise in 2-3 weeks every organized group will be charging ulties and spam the hell out of this OP skill. Even now there are a lot of groups using it.

According to me the best solution will be to reduce the radius to 5m. Then it will be still OP when you are outnumbered but it will not synergize so well with zergs.

Yes for the love of god make is useless like stander of might in pvp! It's not fair for magic destro characters to kill ppl pls change this asap

Bashev

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

@Wrobel be a man and make some changes and dont wait till next patch. The eye of the storm ultimate should be with less damage or blockable or reduce the range to 5m or whatever you want. Just change it. Otherwise in 2-3 weeks every organized group will be charging ulties and spam the hell out of this OP skill. Even now there are a lot of groups using it.

According to me the best solution will be to reduce the radius to 5m. Then it will be still OP when you are outnumbered but it will not synergize so well with zergs.

Yes for the love of god make is useless like stander of might in pvp! It's not fair for magic destro characters to kill ppl pls change this asap

I play magicka DK so dont tell me what is fair and what is not. I just cannot close my eyes and say yeah that skill is perfectly fine when it is not. If you think that it is ok then you probably only duels or you dont participate in alliance pvp.

Enslaved

Solution. Give caltrops ability to overlap. If destro ultis can overlap and deal 100k+ damage, then make caltrops that deal 1k damage per second a chance to overlap, too. That way we can multi caltrop the narrow spots and any zerg that just run over caltrops nowadays will have to think twice about that.

Alcast

It is going to get nerfed, dont worry.

Have a group of 10 ppl all run that ulti and bb enemies.

Bashev

Alcast wrote: »

It is going to get nerfed, dont worry.

Have a group of 10 ppl all run that ulti and bb enemies.

Yep. You need 5 ultis for the first push 5 ultis for the second push. This way you always have the ulti up. You dont need to use all ultimates unless you fight 40+ ppl.

Valencer

Alcast wrote: »

It is going to get nerfed, dont worry.

Have a group of 10 ppl all run that ulti and bb enemies.

You don't need 10 people to insta-melt everything. 3-4 people running this ulti is enough to do that

Seriously can't wait for all the guilds to change their group setups to "1 rapids slave, some healers, everyone else sorc/NB with destro ulti"

CapuchinSeven

OH come on it's not that bad, this is comical. As someone currently playing stamina the very idea that this needs to be changed in a world of proct sets and burst stamina builds is just comical.

The only time this has really been much of a threat to me was when I was both low on stamina AND the the attacker was immune to CC/taken a Immovable pot.

Apart from stopping it from going invisible it doesn't need a change. It's a powerful player based AOE that gives you a warning it's coming and when you expect a Destro' attacker to be using it, really not that much of a shock when it comes.

Mayrael

Bashev wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

@Wrobel be a man and make some changes and dont wait till next patch. The eye of the storm ultimate should be with less damage or blockable or reduce the range to 5m or whatever you want. Just change it. Otherwise in 2-3 weeks every organized group will be charging ulties and spam the hell out of this OP skill. Even now there are a lot of groups using it.

According to me the best solution will be to reduce the radius to 5m. Then it will be still OP when you are outnumbered but it will not synergize so well with zergs.

Yes for the love of god make is useless like stander of might in pvp! It's not fair for magic destro characters to kill ppl pls change this asap

I play magicka DK so dont tell me what is fair and what is not. I just cannot close my eyes and say yeah that skill is perfectly fine when it is not. If you think that it is ok then you probably only duels or you dont participate in alliance pvp.

I play stamblade and stam sorc and want nerf to proc sets, what kind of argument is that? I also play magplar, magdk and mag sorc. Is this ulti to strong? Probably yes. Are proc sets to strong? Yes they are a bit. Is the tankienes OP? Maybe. There are builds that have tankienes, dmg and sustain. This game needs so much of rework...
It should be like this. You have three categories. DPS, survivabilty, sustain. You can always have one maxed. If you have 100% into DPS you have 0% and 0% in sustain and aurvibability. You can split it to have 50/50, 33/33/33, 40/40/20 and so on, but you never should be allowed to have 150%...
This ult once per few minutes buffs your dps over 150%.
Proc sets do a bit less but every few seconds.
There are also so tanky builds that are imposible to kill, and thats fine but when tank have just a bit less dmg than dps... Something is wrong.

This ult is just an effect of far more complex problem. We need a softcaps back, and adjustment of proc sets as they are out of softcap range. ZOS needs to take controll over this train as we are going deeper and deeper into this madness with each patch. On one hand we have 1s TTK, and one the other hand we have endless TTK. Somewhere between this are regular players, that dont follow the meta builds and try to find thier spot while playing as they like to... and they have very hard time in pvp so they join meta or quit. Remember the times when each fight was different as each enemy had different setup? This times are gone and I can only dream that they will return some day.

Enslaved

Its not that bad? I guess you are in one of low populated campaigns. Try Trueflame or Azura, you can have 100k stamina, all the CCs of Nirn couldn't save you from zerg composed of destro ultis and several new monster helms that are more than op in combination with them.

themdogesbite

Can DK banners deal the same damage? plz.

FloppyTouch

Enslaved wrote: »

Solution. Give caltrops ability to overlap. If destro ultis can overlap and deal 100k+ damage, then make caltrops that deal 1k damage per second a chance to overlap, too. That way we can multi caltrop the narrow spots and any zerg that just run over caltrops nowadays will have to think twice about that.

Pls pls tell me ur not comparing a 250 cost ult to an ability u can spam with other ppl

Cinbri

There was so many rage and insults to Wrobel on pts about "how weak destro ultimate" and requests to buff it even more that gladly wasn't listened.
Now everyone want to nerf this ult and blame Wrobel(what an irony) for how strong it is....
And here is another reason why zos don't care that much about feedback. Something is wrong with 80% of forum community people.

Enslaved

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Solution. Give caltrops ability to overlap. If destro ultis can overlap and deal 100k+ damage, then make caltrops that deal 1k damage per second a chance to overlap, too. That way we can multi caltrop the narrow spots and any zerg that just run over caltrops nowadays will have to think twice about that.

Pls pls tell me ur not comparing a 250 cost ult to an ability u can spam with other ppl

One player can have one caltops active. And it damages for about 1k. On the other hand, we have destro ulti user that damages others for 25k per second. Destro ulti clearly needs a buff, and reduced cost

Erondil

Enslaved wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Solution. Give caltrops ability to overlap. If destro ultis can overlap and deal 100k+ damage, then make caltrops that deal 1k damage per second a chance to overlap, too. That way we can multi caltrop the narrow spots and any zerg that just run over caltrops nowadays will have to think twice about that.

Pls pls tell me ur not comparing a 250 cost ult to an ability u can spam with other ppl

One player can have one caltops active. And it damages for about 1k. On the other hand, we have destro ulti user that damages others for 25k per second. Destro ulti clearly needs a buff, and reduced cost

Not quite sure where you get your numbers from because as emperor with everything into damage its 14k tooltip. Keep dreaming.

CapuchinSeven

Enslaved wrote: »

Its not that bad? I guess you are in one of low populated campaigns. Try Trueflame or Azura, you can have 100k stamina, all the CCs of Nirn couldn't save you from zerg composed of destro ultis and several new monster helms that are more than op in combination with them.

I play on Azura and Trueflame.

FloppyTouch

Enslaved wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Solution. Give caltrops ability to overlap. If destro ultis can overlap and deal 100k+ damage, then make caltrops that deal 1k damage per second a chance to overlap, too. That way we can multi caltrop the narrow spots and any zerg that just run over caltrops nowadays will have to think twice about that.

Pls pls tell me ur not comparing a 250 cost ult to an ability u can spam with other ppl

One player can have one caltops active. And it damages for about 1k. On the other hand, we have destro ulti user that damages others for 25k per second. Destro ulti clearly needs a buff, and reduced cost

Ur comparing an ult with an AoE skill that sits on the floor forever pls stop

Wat if everyone ran in with bats or standers or dawn breakers ult dumping is a real thing and trust me I pvp if you run destro is pvp ur going to b eaten up by all the Stam builds fast all ur attacks will miss and after you spent the last 20 mins getting killed by Stam builds u might kill a few with ur ult and well timed cc's that's you been building up for the last 10 deaths

Biro123

I don't think its too bad. Its strong, yes - but it needs an organised group to work.

I see lots of people dying to it (me sometimes, but really not very often at all) - but I think most are starting to learn to spread out around these groups, to kite when they come towards you, to nibble at their heels when they move away. But saying that, I still see a LOT of people rushing in alone to face them head on... Just cos organised > stupid doesn't mean it needs a nerf.

Does seem odd that you can't block it though..

CapuchinSeven

Biro123 wrote: »

I don't think its too bad. Its strong, yes - but it needs an organised group to work.

I see lots of people dying to it (me sometimes, but really not very often at all) - but I think most are starting to learn to spread out around these groups, to kite when they come towards you, to nibble at their heels when they move away. But saying that, I still see a LOT of people rushing in alone to face them head on... Just cos organised > stupid doesn't mean it needs a nerf.

Does seem odd that you can't block it though..

I think it's fairly fair for the cost, at 250 cost if someone could just block it then I'd probably be pretty miffed. Soul Assault can be blocked but only costs 100 ultimate.