Scaling killed the game (for me)

Vrath

I certainly can understand the OPs feeling. When I checked on a low level toon and killed a the 1st mob I had a similar thought about leveling and progression. I wish they'd have implemented scaling like GW2 so players leveling still felt some sense of progression.

Cristiano

This thread is a great reminder of why I absolutely hate reading game forums anymore. The update has been out for 5 minutes, and here we have yet another "x killed the game" thread. Bleh.

Mojmir

Cristiano wrote: »

This thread is a great reminder of why I absolutely hate reading game forums anymore. The update has been out for 5 minutes, and here we have yet another "x killed the game" thread. Bleh.

not much different than pts is changed,so add that in.

ElBiggus

Cristiano wrote: »

This thread is a great reminder of why I absolutely hate reading game forums anymore. The update has been out for 5 minutes, and here we have yet another "x killed the game" thread. Bleh.

Well I'll just say that I have never enjoyed a game with level scaling mechanics. I'm going to give it a chance, but "arbitrarily chasing bigger numbers that have no discernible impact because all the other numbers get bigger in response" has never worked for me as an incentive to keep playing -- how big or small my numbers are should have no impact on how big or small the others are, and it should be down to me to keep step, lag behind, or work extra hard to get ahead.

Ufretin

I mostly agree with OP. Even after maxing out CP on my main long ago, I've still enjoyed the sense of achievement during the leveling phase on every new toon: being able to advance into a new area, being able to kill a boss you couldn't kill before, new gear becoming available, etc.

Nowadays there's only two types of characters: "incomplete" ones (lvl1 - cp159), a pityful existence to leave behind asap and "complete" ones (cp160+), ready to be geared up properly, start pvp, start doing dungeons/trials to farm sets etc.

Have you noticed ZOS shoving another xp buff down our throats with almost every update? We have xp buffs from psyjic ambrosia / crown scrolls, pledge of mara, eso plus, enlightenment, we had the insane 100% buff during anniversary event, they turned "training" trait (which used to be a nice way to exercise control over which skill lines to level up) into yet another generic xp buff, they buffed xp gained from pvp with DB update and now again with OT, etc, etc....

Why? To please players who can't enjoy playing a toon until he reaches 160/561cp? First steps to do away with level system altogether? Looks like devs were / are uncomfortable with their own leveling system and are trying to bury it clandestinely...

Danikat

Ufretin wrote: »

I mostly agree with OP. Even after maxing out CP on my main long ago, I've still enjoyed the sense of achievement during the leveling phase on every new toon: being able to advance into a new area, being able to kill a boss you couldn't kill before, new gear becoming available, etc.

Nowadays there's only two types of characters: "incomplete" ones (lvl1 - cp159), a pityful existence to leave behind asap and "complete" ones (cp160+), ready to be geared up properly, start pvp, start doing dungeons/trials to farm sets etc.

Have you noticed ZOS shoving another xp buff down our throats with almost every update? We have xp buffs from psyjic ambrosia / crown scrolls, pledge of mara, eso plus, enlightenment, we had the insane 100% buff during anniversary event, they turned "training" trait (which used to be a nice way to exercise control over which skill lines to level up) into yet another generic xp buff, they buffed xp gained from pvp with DB update and now again with OT, etc, etc....

Why? To please players who can't enjoy playing a toon until he reaches 160/561cp? First steps to do away with level system altogether? Looks like devs were / are uncomfortable with their own leveling system and are trying to bury it clandestinely...

Our of curiosity what do you do with those "complete" characters once they have farmed the sets they need and are geared up properly?

If the only point in playing any part of the game is to prepare yourself for another part of the game when do you ever get to the part you actually want to be doing?

Shad0wfire99

Ufretin wrote: »

I mostly agree with OP. Even after maxing out CP on my main long ago, I've still enjoyed the sense of achievement during the leveling phase on every new toon: being able to advance into a new area, being able to kill a boss you couldn't kill before, new gear becoming available, etc.

Nowadays there's only two types of characters: "incomplete" ones (lvl1 - cp159), a pityful existence to leave behind asap and "complete" ones (cp160+), ready to be geared up properly, start pvp, start doing dungeons/trials to farm sets etc.

Have you noticed ZOS shoving another xp buff down our throats with almost every update? We have xp buffs from psyjic ambrosia / crown scrolls, pledge of mara, eso plus, enlightenment, we had the insane 100% buff during anniversary event, they turned "training" trait (which used to be a nice way to exercise control over which skill lines to level up) into yet another generic xp buff, they buffed xp gained from pvp with DB update and now again with OT, etc, etc....

Why? To please players who can't enjoy playing a toon until he reaches 160/561cp? First steps to do away with level system altogether? Looks like devs were / are uncomfortable with their own leveling system and are trying to bury it clandestinely...

My sources tell me that not using XP buffs or training gear is a good way to avoid getting all that pesky extra XP.

Giant_Lizard

spectre303 wrote: »

Maybe try it for a few days first before dismissing it outright.

well, of course I will I won't just drop it like this. But, for the moment, I'm not that interested as before to come home and play. And that's not good.

Sigtric wrote: »

Now it is much more in-line with how a traditional Elder Scrolls game works, and makes it more rewarding (xp and gear wise) to visit places you would have other wise been too high of a level to gain anything from.

This is great for me.

I don't remember traditional Elder Scrolls games like this, honestly. Except Oblivion, which wasn't so bad made anyway (when I was strong, I was strong, even if the mobs had the same lvl as me). And anyway, the fact that others do it, don't make it right.

Auricle wrote: »

I think the title of this thread is a touch melodramatic. I know change is new and scary, but it's not as bad as all that. There are many ways to improve in strength besides just leveling.

well, of course that was my opinion. It killed the fun to me, so it basically killed the game. To me. I'm not so hungry to go back, login and play. Until yesterday I was only thinking about that.

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

It's been like, 8 minutes, and it's already "killed the game?"

for me yes. It could be even only 1 minute if I don't like a feature, it doesn't change with time.

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I am confused, you have high CP players soloing vet dungeons already. So now the game isn't a faceroll and people complain. Yet posts all over the place that this game was too casual and easy and it sucks 1 shotting everything that you sneeze at.

I am glad its back to difficult, you should have played when it first opened, much more difficult than now.

Its literally been what? 5 hours and the game is broken and killed....

I actually played the beta too, at the time. Didn't like it, so I came back a few weeks ago. For me the feeling to increase my power and do new challenges really pleased me. Now there is no that feeling anymore, now everything is the same. I don't feel like I grow stronger.

JKith wrote: »

I actually like how Tamriel One is better because it's in line with how the other Elder Scrolls titles were... and how a real world would be...

I couldn't disagree more with those two statements. It's not in line with other Elder Scrolls titles and in a real (fantasy) world, the creatures in a area don't change based on you. They maintain the same level and you have to be stronger in order to defeat them.

Danikat wrote: »

I realise it's basically just a difference of opinion but I can't understand this attitude.

I don't see the point in levelling up simply for the sake of being a higher level and seeing bigger numbers on the screen. That's meaningless to me. If you're not having fun doing quests or whatever I can't imagine it's going to suddenly become fun because there are larger numbers involved. And if you are having fun doing it then it doesn't matter if you have to do it to move on to the next thing or not, you're having fun playing a game and that is ultimately the point of the whole thing.

For me levels are a form of gating - they force you to do content in the order the designers have decided on because if you try to deviate from that you'll be too low level and will die repeatedly. Now that's gone. If you want to play through all of the quests then you can, in whatever order you choose (following the storyline or not), if you only want to play certain parts then you can do that too (even if those parts are end-game dungeons which previously required you to grind for hours before you could even start). I see it as putting all of the choice over what to do in-game in the hands of the players, which is a good thing.

For me it was fun because of the exploration. I come to a new area, I analyze the fauna there and decide if it's too dangerous to continue or not. If not, I will probably go train myself, doing other missions and become stronger. Then I can try again. That's funny to me.

I can make a simple example that happened to me a few days ago. I was in a dungeon where a lot of mobs, same lvl as me, can attack you at the same time. I died many times. I then went to train myself, tried again and again...until I was strong enough and clear the dungeon all by myself. I was actually proud of myself. Now what? I guess if I go again to that dungeon I will die and die and die again...I didn't achieve anything, then. Where is my award?

Meh...

Lucius_Aelius

I can't understand why you'd feel that way after so short a time, you'll still get more powerful as you level up because your innate power will be more than your scaled power as a max level character with top tier gear (unless you were gaming the scaling system to make yourself overpowered but that would always have been temporary anyway unless you never intended to level up). I'm on Xbox but I look forward to this change, the world always should have been wide open to begin with and now I'll finally be able to go back and do quests I skipped and get decent rewards (mostly experience-wise) from them, as well as not having them be a faceroll which would just be mind-numbingly dull to play.

And frankly if you need to be a higher level than your enemies to win or have fun, I'm sorry but you're doing it wrong and would get horribly wrecked in any proper content as a high-level unless you shape up and improve your build, strategy and rotation.

ParaNostram

Giant_Lizard wrote: »

I don't know your feelings about it, but for me this "feature" really destroyed any fun I had in the game.

I'm still not even lvl 50, and I like to do quests and kill mobs in order to increase my lvl and become stronger. Now what? I don't even need it. I can go anywhere, my lvl will be scaled, or the mobs lvl will be, so I don't have any fun or need in doing it. It would be only for the skills.

What's the sense in that?

Also, when I encountered a strong mob (a group boss maybe) and I wanted to take it down alone, if I couldn't, I just made some lvl more, became stronger, went back and kicked his...butt. Now it's useless. If I can't kill a mob, I just can't. I will be forced to do it with a group of people. That's not funny.

Really, in the last weeks I logged in and played as much as I could, every time I had some free time to spare. Now, I logged in, went to some old-low-level zone, fought some monster and saw how long it takes me now to kill them...I just logged out. Now we have to be careful wherever we are, but not too much because there is no one who can really kill us. It's so "flat" that takes all the fun away.


My opinion, of course.

Or you can level your skills, get better gear, and come back? I spent most of today soloing world bosses in various zones just to see if it was still possible, and it was. With time, talent, and dedication, you can still solo anything in the overworld. Only places I have found things I couldn't kill by myself would be a few world bosses in Orsinium, Hew's Bane, Craglorn, and both world bosses in the Gold Coast.

Tandor

DM_ESO wrote: »

Giant_Lizard wrote: »

I don't know your feelings about it

I started playing 2 weeks ago. All I've been doing is the story quests in each zone. I've had trouble where I have been out leveling everything easily, and never getting XP for my kills, or getting drops that were way out of my level range. Most of my gear is ~10 levels outdated.

Today I'm in a new zone. I'm no longer too high level like I've been most of the week, but I'm getting appropriate drops. When my friend logs in later, I'll be able to go and play with her without having to sacrifice my fun and progress.

I've been playing RPG games since the late 80s and I've come to the conclusion that vertical character progression sucks, and causes nothing but problems. Game that offer horizontal progression instead have always been much better.

Thankfully, a lot of games are coming around and switching to horizontal. Games like Final Fantasy Explorers, Monster Hunter and etc get rid of levels all together and are instead about earning skills and better gear. Guild Wars has switch completely to area based skill acquisition (after the base game). Dungeons and Dragons still has levels but is starting to go in that direction with it's 'bounded accuracy' implementation.

I agree.

I was playing tonight on my level 39 EP assassin nightblade. He had been fighting level 36 mobs before, now they're his level. He couldn't previously do what an assassin nightblade should do and go join the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood because he'd have come back to the level 36 mobs and he'd have been into the 40s, so he was having to wait until he was level 50. Now he can do all those things at level whenever he wants, and even back at Davon's Watch which is his base city he can get some xp and worthwhile loot from killing the spiders etc on his harvesting round. It's all positive so far as I'm concerned.

Bigevilpeter

if you are more than 5 levels than the mobs you wnt get xp anywys, so now at least you can farm anywhere you want at any level.

I thought this was a brilliant idea

Ufretin

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

My sources tell me that not using XP buffs or training gear is a good way to avoid getting all that pesky extra XP.

My sources tell me you can't forfeit the buffed xp from pvp i mentioned, neither the buff from eso plus.

Why would anyone want to avoid those pesky xp?
I'm a dedicated non-vet / below-lvl50 PvPer. I'm aware we're a small minority but those xp buffs are really ruining our game, forcing us to roll and gear up new toons at ever shorter intervals...

Draqone

What I like about this is that it allows me to progress at my own pace. If I want to complete all quests in a given area I can do it and not worry that I'll outlevel the next area of interest. Outleveling content when playing new characters has been a serious issue for me since I love sidequests, exploration and whatnot.

Secondly, it's more immersive. I hate how you'd be destroying demons in one zone but you'd die to an imp in another.

newtinmpls

Danikat wrote: »

For me levels are a form of gating - they force you to do content in the order the designers have decided on because if you try to deviate from that you'll be too low level and will die repeatedly..

Umm.... after about the first 5 quests, I outlevel content. always.

Ufretin

Danikat wrote: »

Ufretin wrote: »

I mostly agree with OP. Even after maxing out CP on my main long ago, I've still enjoyed the sense of achievement during the leveling phase on every new toon: being able to advance into a new area, being able to kill a boss you couldn't kill before, new gear becoming available, etc.

Nowadays there's only two types of characters: "incomplete" ones (lvl1 - cp159), a pityful existence to leave behind asap and "complete" ones (cp160+), ready to be geared up properly, start pvp, start doing dungeons/trials to farm sets etc.

Have you noticed ZOS shoving another xp buff down our throats with almost every update? We have xp buffs from psyjic ambrosia / crown scrolls, pledge of mara, eso plus, enlightenment, we had the insane 100% buff during anniversary event, they turned "training" trait (which used to be a nice way to exercise control over which skill lines to level up) into yet another generic xp buff, they buffed xp gained from pvp with DB update and now again with OT, etc, etc....

Why? To please players who can't enjoy playing a toon until he reaches 160/561cp? First steps to do away with level system altogether? Looks like devs were / are uncomfortable with their own leveling system and are trying to bury it clandestinely...

Our of curiosity what do you do with those "complete" characters once they have farmed the sets they need and are geared up properly?

If the only point in playing any part of the game is to prepare yourself for another part of the game when do you ever get to the part you actually want to be doing?

that's my question too and that's why I made that sarcastic remark about players who try to avoid the leveling phase like the plague...

Giant_Lizard

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Now it is much more in-line with how a traditional Elder Scrolls game works, and makes it more rewarding (xp and gear wise) to visit places you would have other wise been too high of a level to gain anything from.

This is great for me.

This I think is the main reason for the change. I realize your point of view @Giant_Lizard is the more traditional MMO style, but I can tell you personally that about 10 friends of mine from previous MMO's, also played Morrowind, etc left the game over this issue. They were expecting a few things, one of which was being able to group with friends regardless of level, and the other was free roaming. Those 10 friends left because grouping with people if they were just a few levels off was not feasible.

The next step in this is to give us a means to repeat old quests we have already completed. If they were able to do this, the system would be complete. Don't lose hope. Part of your progression is fleshing out your skills, your gear, and your build.

maybe I'm too old and I like old-school games who knows. I was actually suggesting to some of my friends with who I played Guild Wars 2 (and who didn't like it because too flat to) to join me here because "I've found a game that reminds me of old-school MMORPGS". Damn, only a few weeks later, big change: now there is much less difference between players really annoying for me.

Cristiano wrote: »

This thread is a great reminder of why I absolutely hate reading game forums anymore. The update has been out for 5 minutes, and here we have yet another "x killed the game" thread. Bleh.

yeah, you should probably still stay away from forums, then.

This kind of feature existed in other games for years, it's not something new Zenimax invented. We all know how it works. I entered the game, tested it for an hour, I didn't like it and came here to express my opinion. Seems normal to me.

Lucius_Aelius

Giant_Lizard wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Now it is much more in-line with how a traditional Elder Scrolls game works, and makes it more rewarding (xp and gear wise) to visit places you would have other wise been too high of a level to gain anything from.

This is great for me.

This I think is the main reason for the change. I realize your point of view @Giant_Lizard is the more traditional MMO style, but I can tell you personally that about 10 friends of mine from previous MMO's, also played Morrowind, etc left the game over this issue. They were expecting a few things, one of which was being able to group with friends regardless of level, and the other was free roaming. Those 10 friends left because grouping with people if they were just a few levels off was not feasible.

The next step in this is to give us a means to repeat old quests we have already completed. If they were able to do this, the system would be complete. Don't lose hope. Part of your progression is fleshing out your skills, your gear, and your build.

maybe I'm too old and I like old-school games who knows. I was actually suggesting to some of my friends with who I played Guild Wars 2 (and who didn't like it because too flat to) to join me here because "I've found a game that reminds me of old-school MMORPGS". Damn, only a few weeks later, big change: now there is much less difference between players really annoying for me.

Cristiano wrote: »

This thread is a great reminder of why I absolutely hate reading game forums anymore. The update has been out for 5 minutes, and here we have yet another "x killed the game" thread. Bleh.

yeah, you should probably still stay away from forums, then.

This kind of feature existed in other games for years, it's not something new Zenimax invented. We all know how it works. I entered the game, tested it for an hour, I didn't like it and came here to express my opinion. Seems normal to me.

Normal perhaps, doesn't mean you're not still wrong to decide so flippantly and quickly based on so little time playing the game. Just because lots of people do it doesn't make them or you correct.

ldzlcs065

I think there is a simple solution for your concern: ZOS could simply offer an alternative choice to display your original numbers of attributes, then people who will gain pleasure while seeing these numbers increase should be content I suppose?

ComboBreaker88

Giant_Lizard wrote: »

I don't know your feelings about it, but for me this "feature" really destroyed any fun I had in the game.

I'm still not even lvl 50

Honestly you lost all credibility there. Hitting lvl 50 takes about 20 hours of game play. Not grinding, just regular game play. So you're telling me you haven't even played for a full day and your opinion about the way the game works should matter? Step off that soap box before you hurt yourself.

I have a character with 150 days played. And several 30 day alts. The update just came out. Cool it on how you think it killed the game when you haven't even played long enough to know what the game is.

AmberLaTerra

I agree with the OP on this, it just doesn't feel right having my level 12 toon do triple the DPS of my 379 CP tank. I mean great it my Tank is a tank so really low DPS, but the level 12 is building to be a healer not a DPS. I can only imagine how much more lopsided it would get if I assigned my CP on the level 12 instead of leaving it unused for now.

Yes I know my sig does not state 379 CP, I only update it ever 25-30 CP to not need to update it every day.

MakoFore

there was certainly a discernible difference when gaining power- a satisfaction with being able to measure yourself against mobs who were once difficult- you could feel your progress. now it seems it dosent matter. we ll see.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

Giant_Lizard wrote: »

I don't know your feelings about it, but for me this "feature" really destroyed any fun I had in the game.

I'm still not even lvl 50

Honestly you lost all credibility there. Hitting lvl 50 takes about 20 hours of game play. Not grinding, just regular game play. So you're telling me you haven't even played for a full day and your opinion about the way the game works should matter? Step off that soap box before you hurt yourself.

I have a character with 150 days played. And several 30 day alts. The update just came out. Cool it on how you think it killed the game when you haven't even played long enough to know what the game is.

Gonna have to agree on this. OP hasn't even reached end game and thinks the game is too easy. Even if you are scaled you are obviously going to be less powerful than a CP531 in full CP160 gear. There is your goal OP. Go for the levels and gear. The scaling is to make the game feel more like an Elder Scrolls game where you have freedom of exploration.

ElBiggus

Look at it this way; all the quests and stuff you do as you play are working towards one thing: killing the Big Bad. With the old system -- area enemy levels gradually escalated as you worked your way through the story -- there was a need to work through everything, and if you skipped too much you'd end up being seriously outmatched to the point where even minor mobs could tear you several new ones in no time at all. It seemed that it was hard to get too overlevelled or to stay ahead of the game for too long (unless you were doing a lot of group dungeons), and the difficulty level was well balanced so that you didn't have to do everything, but you also couldn't skip too much -- by the time I finished my "native" area I was a few levels under the recommendation, and it got a bit fraught from time to time.

Now, presumably, other than having to do whatever prerequisites are required to trigger it, once you're off the starting island you can pretty much just walk to the final confrontation and take on the endgame and still have a small chance of success; sure, you'd not have many skills and it wouldn't be easy, but it's taken it from "impossible, both from a combat and plot progression point of view" to "the entire game is to some extent optional".

On the plus side, maybe I'll try speedrunning the game...

(Side note, which may explain why I'm so anti-scalaing: for me, the underlying stat mechanics, mucking around with gear sets, minmaxing, etc., are indescribably dull; I play the game to play the game -- people would probably recoil in horror from the assortment of gear I'm carrying and the skills I've got equipped, but it works for me and I'm far more interested in the journey and the challenges it presents than I am in the destination, and I suspect once I've finished the third faction I'll be more or less done with the game; PvP holds no interest for me, and the thought of grinding dungeons to get better gear to grind more dungeons sends me into a coma. I stopped playing Destiny once I'd reached the "hey, repeat this series of things on the offchance that you might get a slightly better thing than you have now" stage, The Division fell apart when all that was left was the Dark Zone and the re-running of the same dozen "dungeons", and my foray into MOBAs was very short lived.)

EldritchPenguin

MakoFore wrote: »

there was certainly a discernible difference when gaining power- a satisfaction with being able to measure yourself against mobs who were once difficult- you could feel your progress. now it seems it dosent matter. we ll see.

Well, your stats still improve via attribute points and stronger enchantments, and you get more skill points and better passives over time and stuff like that, not to mention better gear.

There's still some progression, but it's more incremental. More subtle. Less direct and vertical.

acw37162

I understand why you may not like it.

It did not kill the game it is in fact good for the overall health of the game.

Elvira

As for me... And hope/chance this automatic scaling of areas can be TURNED OFF, at least in future? I completely and utterly despise this feature in _any game_. It kills any enjoyment of becoming more powerful. And I believe there are _lot_ of people who feel the same, even if perhaps minority (though I'm not sure even about that :-p)

Lumenn

Console player here so I haven't been able to play with the changes but I'm divided on this one. Leveled mobs only worry me in one regard and that's due to playing EQ(evercamp) from launch +8 years) with the drive to force you to group and never solo. (this changed a bit later on) as long as I can still get on for an hour or two and play w/o spending an hour trying to get a group together just so I can play ALL THE TIME(or go grind trash mobs) I'll be fine. In fact I'll enjoy not having to skip quests or snore through silver/gold because of overleveling.

ElBiggus

acw37162 wrote: »

It did not kill the game it is in fact good for the overall health of the game.

I'm unconvinced. One, if you have the patience you can now reach CP600 without ever leaving your starting island. Two, you could complete every quest, run every dungeon, complete all the trials with one hand tied behind your back, and still be in danger of being killed by a mudcrab on the starting island. To me, both of those possibilities just existing immediately makes the game less appealing.

Darkonflare15

Giant_Lizard wrote: »

spectre303 wrote: »

Maybe try it for a few days first before dismissing it outright.

well, of course I will I won't just drop it like this. But, for the moment, I'm not that interested as before to come home and play. And that's not good.

Sigtric wrote: »

Now it is much more in-line with how a traditional Elder Scrolls game works, and makes it more rewarding (xp and gear wise) to visit places you would have other wise been too high of a level to gain anything from.

This is great for me.

I don't remember traditional Elder Scrolls games like this, honestly. Except Oblivion, which wasn't so bad made anyway (when I was strong, I was strong, even if the mobs had the same lvl as me). And anyway, the fact that others do it, don't make it right.

Auricle wrote: »

I think the title of this thread is a touch melodramatic. I know change is new and scary, but it's not as bad as all that. There are many ways to improve in strength besides just leveling.

well, of course that was my opinion. It killed the fun to me, so it basically killed the game. To me. I'm not so hungry to go back, login and play. Until yesterday I was only thinking about that.

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

It's been like, 8 minutes, and it's already "killed the game?"

for me yes. It could be even only 1 minute if I don't like a feature, it doesn't change with time.

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I am confused, you have high CP players soloing vet dungeons already. So now the game isn't a faceroll and people complain. Yet posts all over the place that this game was too casual and easy and it sucks 1 shotting everything that you sneeze at.

I am glad its back to difficult, you should have played when it first opened, much more difficult than now.

Its literally been what? 5 hours and the game is broken and killed....

I actually played the beta too, at the time. Didn't like it, so I came back a few weeks ago. For me the feeling to increase my power and do new challenges really pleased me. Now there is no that feeling anymore, now everything is the same. I don't feel like I grow stronger.

JKith wrote: »

I actually like how Tamriel One is better because it's in line with how the other Elder Scrolls titles were... and how a real world would be...

I couldn't disagree more with those two statements. It's not in line with other Elder Scrolls titles and in a real (fantasy) world, the creatures in a area don't change based on you. They maintain the same level and you have to be stronger in order to defeat them.

Danikat wrote: »

I realise it's basically just a difference of opinion but I can't understand this attitude.

I don't see the point in levelling up simply for the sake of being a higher level and seeing bigger numbers on the screen. That's meaningless to me. If you're not having fun doing quests or whatever I can't imagine it's going to suddenly become fun because there are larger numbers involved. And if you are having fun doing it then it doesn't matter if you have to do it to move on to the next thing or not, you're having fun playing a game and that is ultimately the point of the whole thing.

For me levels are a form of gating - they force you to do content in the order the designers have decided on because if you try to deviate from that you'll be too low level and will die repeatedly. Now that's gone. If you want to play through all of the quests then you can, in whatever order you choose (following the storyline or not), if you only want to play certain parts then you can do that too (even if those parts are end-game dungeons which previously required you to grind for hours before you could even start). I see it as putting all of the choice over what to do in-game in the hands of the players, which is a good thing.

For me it was fun because of the exploration. I come to a new area, I analyze the fauna there and decide if it's too dangerous to continue or not. If not, I will probably go train myself, doing other missions and become stronger. Then I can try again. That's funny to me.

I can make a simple example that happened to me a few days ago. I was in a dungeon where a lot of mobs, same lvl as me, can attack you at the same time. I died many times. I then went to train myself, tried again and again...until I was strong enough and clear the dungeon all by myself. I was actually proud of myself. Now what? I guess if I go again to that dungeon I will die and die and die again...I didn't achieve anything, then. Where is my award?

Meh...

You supose to level up your skills and gear. You get this from leveling up and exploring. When you come back to that area, you should be able handle anything just like when you out level enemies. The knowledge of gear and skills is your reward. With the right skills and knowledge on how to take on the content is the progression of the game.