Scaling killed the game (for me)

RinaldoGandolphi

Tabbycat wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The only part of One Tamriel that irks me is the cross faction stuff, Storywise this kills the 3 Banners War completely.

Daggerfall is being occupied by EP and AD soldiers. Auridon is being occupied by EP and DC soldiers, Mournhold is being occupised by DC and Ad soliders...wth is anyone fighting for?

Play Skyrim, you will be wandering around the world and see The Stormcloaks come across the Thalmor and immediately they are fighting to death...no way the Stormcloaks are going to allow the Thalmor to walk freely in their country.

But in ESO, the Lion Guard simply doesn't care that a former EP Emp and EP solider is walkiong around freely in their capital...who gives a damn right? TES has ALWAYS been about the story, and now the Alliance War has no story...not as long as the guards and such don't care that enemies to their country are occupying their lands and no one gives a rat about it.

its relaly laughable at this point. Look One tamriel is not all bad, they have done a lot of stuff I like. Many of the changes im excited about, but they could have implemented cross faction without killing the lore of the 3 Banners War off completely...like i dunno...say the Lion Guard will want to kill EP and Ad players on sight because ya know...they are currently the enemy to their country, to their government, and currently they are in a war with them at the moment maybe? lol....

What going on right now would be the equivalent of Ulfic Stormcloak bending his knee to Thalmor (Simply not gonna happen, he would rather die first)

I'm not really sure it's all that different than Cadwell's Gold and Silver. The only difference, of course, is that you aren't "disguised" by Cadwell so the other faction thinks you are part of it and now you can see all the other factions.

People complained they couldn't understand why they would want to help out the opposite faction by doing Cadwells quests. I suppose it is all optional as you don't have to quest in the other factions territories.

It also wouldn't surprise me at all if Sheogorath was involved in all this. You know he would enjoy the enemy being right under their noses without them even noticing.

Creative i gotta admit.

I'll just have to ignore this obvious butchering of the 3 Banners War story as long as i continue to play. Not much i really can do at this point. there is enough good with this update to simply look past that for now. However, ZOS needs to be more careful in the future not to butcher the lore they are trying to base the game on. You don't see Bethesda back tracking and butchering their lore and stories.

we will see how it goes for now

Asardes

Cously wrote: »

I love the scaling. It made the game brand new to me. Do you know how much I hate Orc land? Now I don't have to spend hours farming mats there.

I actually farmed CP150-160 materials in some instance of deserted Imperial land (Spellbreaker EU PC). The grass is really short there and you can see the nodes from further away. But mostly agree with your post there. I'm really looking forward to dumping all my trash mats on guild stores to free up some space on my bank characters and I don't want more. CP90-140 is useful for writs, since I have loads and don't want to waste the CP150-160 but < CP90 is just plain trash.

Doctordarkspawn

Heaven forbid a MMO break tradition for the sake of enjoyment.

Lets be honest, what impact did the banners war have outside of PVP? None. Our max level characters became a personal confidant of all three alliance leads and likely more. If your arguing for the story, then I argue that is complete nonsense.

Baulderdash.

Jordan_Black

I haven't played much on it yet but I disliked the old leveling process and I think this is going to be good for the game - when I came across that bridge to Skyrim and crossed it when I first started playing in EP, I was rather disappointed to see stuff 20 levels higher than I was. This new patch makes me excited to make an alt or two.

AndyTGD

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Heaven forbid a MMO break tradition for the sake of enjoyment.

Lets be honest, what impact did the banners war have outside of PVP? None. Our max level characters became a personal confidant of all three alliance leads and likely more. If your arguing for the story, then I argue that is complete nonsense.

Baulderdash.

To be honest, the Banners War lore was butchered the second ZOS allowed certain folks to be High Elves fighting for the Covenant and vice versa. There's almost more elves and kahjiit in the Covenant army than Bretons at times. lol

So, why worry? Its not like having a bunch of talented Breton mercs fighting for the Dominion or vice versa is completely unfathomable.

Giant_Lizard

Another bad side I can see now, it's that I don't need to travel anymore. I can stay in the same spot, killing the same mobs or the same world boss. It will always give me good exp and good gear, related to my lvl.

Doctordarkspawn

AndyTGD wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Heaven forbid a MMO break tradition for the sake of enjoyment.

Lets be honest, what impact did the banners war have outside of PVP? None. Our max level characters became a personal confidant of all three alliance leads and likely more. If your arguing for the story, then I argue that is complete nonsense.

Baulderdash.

To be honest, the Banners War lore was butchered the second ZOS allowed certain folks to be High Elves fighting for the Covenant and vice versa. There's almost more elves and kahjiit in the Covenant army than Bretons at times. lol

So, why worry? Its not like having a bunch of talented Breton mercs fighting for the Dominion or vice versa is completely unfathomable.

Or the fact they had to handicap the Pact something awfull.

House Telvanni, the lions share of Skyrim, and almost the entirety of Black Marsh had to sit out the war otherwise the pact would win out of sheer numbers.

Giant_Lizard

I edited the title since other users here seem to not understand that I'm talking personally. I didn't mean "the game is dead" in general, as some of them said, but it's killed the fun FOR ME.

Asardes

IMO they could have done the scaling in slightly differently though. Much in the same way the group dungeons are done. To leave the upper scaling limit open, but have a fixed lower one. For example have:

Bleak Rock/Bal Foyen scale from level 4-CP160
Stonefalls scale from level 6-CP160
Deshaan scale from level 16-CP160
Shadowfen scale from level 24-CP160
Eastmarch scale from level 31-CP160
The Rift scale from level 38-CP160
Coldharbour scale form level 44-CP160
Craglorn scale from CP10-160

Nodes would also have a lower limit, which is the current one, but the higher one should be open.
For example in Shadowfen you would find:
100% orichalc if you have less than 3 metalworking and you are under level 35
50/50% orichalc and calcinium if you are less than 3 metalworking and CP15
100% voidstone if you have 9 metalworking and CP100
50/50% rubedite and voidstone if you have metalworking 9 and you are CP150+
100% rubedite if you have metalworking 10 and you are CP150+
In the current system is actually possible to find iron there if you go at level 5.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

AndyTGD

Giant_Lizard wrote: »

Another bad side I can see now, it's that I don't need to travel anymore. I can stay in the same spot, killing the same mobs or the same world boss. It will always give me good exp and good gear, related to my lvl.

Well, that's what the story-line is for typically. When you reached endgame before, what you'll find is that you tended to be stuck in Wrothgar or one of the crime DLC areas. Likewise with Cyrodiil, some folks spend their entire game from lvl 10 to max entirely in Cyrodiil for the good exp, gear etc. After maxing out, 3/4 of the gameworld would be literally worthless to you. At least now, it makes those places functionally useful again for folks.

Mandragora

I actually do like the new Cadwell, because I just couldn't force myself to do any silver/gold, because it was so against any logic - now I can RP an anonymous person helping one side, then going for some business to the other zone, doing some trade there, helping the king - a really neutral person who is now able to finish Cadwell without the immersion breaking reroll and some time travel - just an ordinary neutral person.

And I don't think players will have a problem with no progress, they will have problem with players wanting the game to be hard. But ZOS is trying to manage that by equipment, they are doing great. I just with there would be nobody trying to spoil all the hard work.
And I got that impression, that OP isn't honest too - you know it somehow, that he is mimicking RP players. On the other hand I guess it doesn't matter - the quiet majority, that don't even read forums, will decide if they liked it or not, and that depends also on difficulty.
I'm not sure if the scaling +5 -5 levels would help and if they would create a veteran level, then we are back on the same spot, so I would say - hard mobs hidden, easy mobs more near - let the mobs in the zone scale differently.

Moltyr

To be honest, you should be blaming the people who lack any diversity within this game. Most players will grind several hours straight to 50, and go straight to Cyrodil. THEN those same people [snip] about how the game "has no content" and is "boring." Yet they haven't even experienced 99.999999% of the game.

Leveling these days is an absolute joke. Especially now that all the zones are scaled. Which, compared to the ridiculous crap we used to have to level through, I guess that part makes sense. For me personally, the scaling doesn't bother me so much. It's more dealing with the factions mixed together now. So all the Sypher/Fengrush nutswingers who rage whisper you in Cyrodil telling you to "kill yourself" or threaten to [snip] you are now able to interact with you in game from day to day. Mostly because ZOS doesn't ban people like that, which is pathetic.

[Edited to remove profanity]
[Edited to remove inappropriate content]

AmbrosiaPeach

Elder Scrolls has always had a really good story line and a quest system where you built up to go to certain areas,, this def killed that and made it hard to follow the story line
As well as the duels it was PVP in one world and PVE in another they really messed this game up .. I WAS enjoying playing now I go to town and my computer bugs out or I get spammed with 500 duel requests and there are 100s of people there that are just waiting to duel or dueling causing lag and all kinds of noise. There was already a lot of people in town due to them needing to craft or research or visit the bank/fence now it is awful.
I feel like there is no need for me to do quests, no need for me to finish the game, and the pvpers that camp next to wayshrines are making it impossible to do any damn thing

Phelaen

so before the path my level 34 stam sorc felt like a bad ass, wrecking things and going through the quests like aq knife through butter
now everything has more HP so the entire game is just slower now
i do less dps to things because they have the extra hp etc but i dont have the extra passives yet to increase the damage

this sucks
i really hate this update
all i needed was making the road to level 50 feel more tedious and well they done that

Mandragora

I got what that complain about the scaling was about, so a bit of scaling - would this change that for some of you? (still ok for RP players?)
At the beginning of the zone main quest, the ordinary mobs would have -5 levels, in the end of the zone, they could have +5, and also if you would look at pack of mobs, then the mobs wandering around would have -5 levels, the mobs inside the circle with some alfa leader, would have +5. With such small scaling - would this solve your problem of not having progress?
Now you would know, if you would come to a new zone, that you start at the lowest difficulty, after progressing through the zone, all the roads and quest hubs would stay the same, but the main quest of the zone could get a bit more difficult, if the scaling would start with -5 difficulty, so if you would like to see if you are better, you could go off the road and fight some mobs there. So it wouldn't scale the whole zone, but groups of mobs.
Now we have mobs like trolls, who are a bit more tough, so those mobs offroad would be in between.
I don't know if it would solve anything and if even RP players would be happy with that, but maybe it would still give you the feel of diversion.

EDIT.
Actually it would have to be +-3 and not 5 levels.

Asardes

The difficulty of most content is laughable, even at CP160. Soloed the public dungeons in Cadwell's Gold on my alts a few days before the patch with level 44 training gear and just heath buff from "crusty bread" for the achievements and skill points. Did the one in Deshaan, Forgotten Crypts, on my DC Templar in ~15 minutes: quest, mini-bosses and group event boss with 0 deaths and even replaced one of my DD skills with soul trap at some point to fill some empty gems I had. I did part of Halls of the Dead in Eastmarch yesterday on my DK and also was in no danger of death despite healing only with rally. And those are supposed to be group content.

Darkonflare15

Giant_Lizard wrote: »

Another bad side I can see now, it's that I don't need to travel anymore. I can stay in the same spot, killing the same mobs or the same world boss. It will always give me good exp and good gear, related to my lvl.

The funny thing people are so quick to dismiss the idea that Morrowind did not have scaling. Yes areas was not scale to you but some enemies still did. There was area where there was scamp standing there after I level up it became and Ogrim. When I got a higher it became a Golden saint. Some of the creatures level to you. So yeah all Elder Scrolls games some form of scaling. My first play though in Morrowind, I spent my first 30 levels in Balmoral. All I did was level up my alchemy to make gold. Then I use the gold to pay trainers in city to train my combat skills. So basically in similar fashion as you are stating. I stayed in exact area and level up my character. The thing is not everybody play this way. It was a choice. The same way as you can stay same place and train or you can go different places and level up. You play with the story or play the story out or older. The choice is yours and that is what One Tamriel is. Freedom.

Elsonso

spectre303 wrote: »

Maybe try it for a few days first before dismissing it outright.

A valid counter, but let me mention a real world situation.

I happened to cross an Elder Scrolls player last night. He played the game (he was the one who got ME into the game) but has been off playing other games. As he is a player that could benefit from One Tamriel, I am actually interested in him returning. Not only was he fun to play with, but he has a whole gaming group that is fun to play with. The problem is that his gaming group got splintered. He tried to get everyone to make a DC, but some of them didn't. Characters at different levels made grouping more of a chore than it should have been. I think his problems might be "fixed" with One Tamriel.

We spent about 15 minutes talking about ESO. Is he coming back because of One Tamriel? Short answer is that I don't think so.

1. He does not see the point in leveling a character given that all the monsters are the same level. I did explain that it was mostly that combat leveling that did not matter as much, and pointed out benefits with XP and loot that are now scaled to the player and actually useful. I said that crafting was still a leveling exercise. He accepted the answer but did not seem convinced.
2. ESO was too easy for him before, so he would go into over-level areas for more challenge. He was quick to notice that this is not possible with One Tamriel. I mentioned zone group world bosses, but his experience with other games is that these tend to get nerfed to the lowest common denominator player, so they end up being easily solo'ed by anyone who knows what they are doing. Nothing to argue there; ZOS actively does this.
3. Resource nodes are scaled to the player. His statement was that selling lower level crafting resources was an easy way to make gold because there were always people looking for lower level materials. Years ago, before ESO, he was the one who introduced me to the idea of selling crafting resources rather than gear to make gold in games. He asked me if it was now required to keep a character at specific levels in order to farm lower level crafting resources. I simply said that there might be no market because players can very easily get their own. They trip over whatever they need any time they leave town.

So, when we parted, he did not sound interested in One Tamriel, despite being an MMORPG player for years and part of a gaming group that routinely tours different games. Part of me is sad, but I do recognize that this is probably not the player that ZOS is looking for. He is not a ZOS casual. When he plays, he wants the game to be challenging, and with some sense of progression.

This is one player who will probably not spend a few days playing to get an impression. His impression is more based on the description that one gets when reading the press release about One Tamriel.

KaleidoscopeEyz

Sorry to hear that. Scaling revived the game for me with the DLC's, which were a test for One Tamriel. It went so well and was so well received that they rolled it out to the entire game. I can't wait. Thank you Zos.

Cazzy

I see both sides.

Scaling has ruined certain things like node farming for crafters, the natural progression of the main quest (for new players) and to feel accomplished when you reach a new level and can best the foes who beat you before.

For veteran players this change is welcoming because we can go back to those areas we love but were too OP for. It's also good for grinding new toons.

One thing I will say is when you get to level 50 you'll see your CP raise, which will give you back your sense of levelling up.

Also, it's hard to know who ZOS is catering for atm. Lots of things don't seem veteran-friendly (Crown Crates!) but then the scaling seems more designed for alts imo. Either way, I get the feeling things are steadily sloping downwards. Just that sense of foreboding

Asardes

New low level players can farm the mats for their gear in 3 simple steps:
1) Go to an area, kill the trash mobs then loot the gear they drop, they don't even need to do that on purpose, just do normal quests, explore etc.
2) Ride back to town, sell the ornate for gold, chop the other gear down at the crafting stations for base materials and inspiration - deconstructing is by far the fastest way to level crafting skills.
3) Craft gear using the recovered materials, or even better, give them to a guild mate that already has researched multiple traits to craft them a set using the said materials.

They actually don't need to get gear every 2-3 levels. Every 10 levels is more than enough, and the best numbers are 14/24/34/44 because those are the highest levels from a tier. For example between levels 26 and 35 all mobs will drop tier 3 gear which can be deconstructed for tier 3 mats. By level 34 you will certainly have a huge pile of those, enough to craft several sets. The high level crafter doesn't need to clutter his bank, or even maintain a crafting bag. Just have the supply customer side. IT's far simpler like that.

KimberlyannKitsuragi

Giant_Lizard wrote: »

When I encountered a strong mob (a group boss maybe) and I wanted to take it down alone, if I couldn't, I just made some lvl more, became stronger, went back and kicked his...butt. Now it's useless. If I can't kill a mob, I just can't. I will be forced to do it with a group of people. That's not funny.

My opinion, of course.

I 100% agree with you on this point. It's really frustrating. Of course I'll add that my character is suited more for PvP. I'm actually scared to try PvE. I tried to solo the mages guild daily and I died six times. Extremely frustrating but I eventually completed it by seeing a passerby kill the mobs

Asardes

I didn't actually venture in PvP before becoming a good PvE player - mobs are dumb, have the same routines and learning those basic moves (blocking, roll dodging, breaking/applying CC, exploiting) saves you at least some part of the trashing you'll get in PvP. PvP is comparable in difficulty with high end PvE IMO. Unless PvP really means "running with the zerg and mashing buttons" and not "taking coordinated actions and fighting other players in reasonably sized and balanced groups".

The mages guild quest actually takes place in a public dungeon, if this is the case every day - only did the quest yesterday. The mobs there are the same difficulty as overland mobs but they spawn in bigger packs. The mini-bosses are slightly tougher. The toughest is the group event boss, which usually has plenty of adds and high health. The latter is actually hard to solo, if you are not high sustain and have some strong self heal unlocked.

Comparing that with PvP:
Trash mobs = players that sill have serious L2P issues, like not using wards/shields, dodge, execute, having no self heal unlocked, the ones you can 1vX all day.
Mini bosses = players that have learned to play, have some specialized gear, self heals, and that make a 1v1 challenging
Group event boss = experienced player that can beat others in 1vX

If you died to the latter while trying to solo him that's no shame. To the others ... well ...

Zolron

AKSb16_ESO2 wrote: »

I think the scaling was done wrong. It should be like it is in Guild Wars.
Do not scale the lowbies up, scale the veterans down to the levels of the specific area.
Loot is for your specific level of course.
This would be much better and the lowlevels still have the feeling of getting stronger when levelling.

This may have been stated already, but....I am looking forward to the scaling (console player) with my Champion level players only. I will give an example to illustrate my point. I have 3 Champion level players ( champion 224) of which none have completed silver ( let alone gold), since I went through the DLC's upon hitting level 50 . I love questing and the immersion of getting into the story-lines but I still want to get meaningful gear updates, relevant crafting material and not "cake-walk" content. One Tamriel should give my "silver over-leveled" characters MANY options as to where to go and do this.
Not sure if Iexplained this properly but as was stated by someone else in this thread, I think One Tamriel should be great for Champion characters and new players who want to play with friends that have been playing for a while !

Elsonso

Zolron wrote: »

Not sure if Iexplained this properly but as was stated by someone else in this thread, I think One Tamriel should be great for Champion characters and new players who want to play with friends that have been playing for a while !

Well, I have to agree on the matter of my existing champion characters. I have deliberately not done content simply because I knew One Tamriel was coming. Short term, this is a boon for existing players.

However, from a new player perspective, if the player wants to be challenged or have meaningful combat progression, ESO is not the game for them. If they are fine with questing and collecting loot, and really not pay attention to character level, ESO will be fine.

Sigtric

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Now it is much more in-line with how a traditional Elder Scrolls game works, and makes it more rewarding (xp and gear wise) to visit places you would have other wise been too high of a level to gain anything from.

This is great for me.

I disagree, in the other games, you walked into some areas and if you weren't equipped well enough you would die! Now it doesn't matter.

I didn't say it was exactly the same, and what you say holds true here.

If you take a level 3 character to the Gold Coast and try to fight the Minotaur Shamans, as an example, you will get crushed very easily. But, just like in other TES titles, if you are crafty enough, there are ways to overcome.

Sigtric

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The only part of One Tamriel that irks me is the cross faction stuff, Storywise this kills the 3 Banners War completely.

Daggerfall is being occupied by EP and AD soldiers. Auridon is being occupied by EP and DC soldiers, Mournhold is being occupised by DC and Ad soliders...wth is anyone fighting for?

Play Skyrim, you will be wandering around the world and see The Stormcloaks come across the Thalmor and immediately they are fighting to death...no way the Stormcloaks are going to allow the Thalmor to walk freely in their country.

But in ESO, the Lion Guard simply doesn't care that a former EP Emp and EP solider is walkiong around freely in their capital...who gives a damn right? TES has ALWAYS been about the story, and now the Alliance War has no story...not as long as the guards and such don't care that enemies to their country are occupying their lands and no one gives a rat about it.

its relaly laughable at this point. Look One tamriel is not all bad, they have done a lot of stuff I like. Many of the changes im excited about, but they could have implemented cross faction without killing the lore of the 3 Banners War off completely...like i dunno...say the Lion Guard will want to kill EP and Ad players on sight because ya know...they are currently the enemy to their country, to their government, and currently they are in a war with them at the moment maybe? lol....

What going on right now would be the equivalent of Ulfic Stormcloak bending his knee to Thalmor (Simply not gonna happen, he would rather die first)

I'm not really sure it's all that different than Cadwell's Gold and Silver. The only difference, of course, is that you aren't "disguised" by Cadwell so the other faction thinks you are part of it and now you can see all the other factions.

People complained they couldn't understand why they would want to help out the opposite faction by doing Cadwells quests. I suppose it is all optional as you don't have to quest in the other factions territories.

It also wouldn't surprise me at all if Sheogorath was involved in all this. You know he would enjoy the enemy being right under their noses without them even noticing.

Creative i gotta admit.

I'll just have to ignore this obvious butchering of the 3 Banners War story as long as i continue to play. Not much i really can do at this point. there is enough good with this update to simply look past that for now. However, ZOS needs to be more careful in the future not to butcher the lore they are trying to base the game on. You don't see Bethesda back tracking and butchering their lore and stories.

we will see how it goes for now

@RinaldoGandolphi The nice thing is, you can keep on doing stuff in the order it was designed to be done and you wont see any of the lore-breaks.

It only gets butchered if you choose to do things out of order, content wise.

The tricky part comes from seeing other alliance players in the zones with you. Time to set up your suspension of disbelief, as we gamers have to, and should be doing. One poster on the forums wrote a nice story about the 3 Alliance leaders calling for peace in the uncontested lands. Let the war be in the war zone and let the citizens of Tamriel travel freely for commerce, etc. It was exceptionally well thought out. I will try to edit this post with a link should I find it again.

tklawson

I am a little confused, perhaps someone can answer this question:

How is this better for people just trying to level a toon to level 50? Before, I followed efficient leveling, which had me fighting mobs in coldharbour that were 5-8 levels above me. I assume that I was getting more XP because they were at a higher level, than I will be getting now that I am on the same "level" - or am I misunderstanding something?

A side question, my gear is level 34, am I better waiting until I get to level 50, so I can max my gear before fighting Molag Bal, so that I don't need to make level 46 gear that I will only use for a day or two at most (until I reach 50 - I have more than 160 CP)

Otherwise, I like that I can now do the caldwell's gold level public dungeons, because the zones are not deserted wastelands.

Doctordarkspawn

I mainly see people yelling about the scaling because they notice it and dont like change. let me ask you some questions.

Did you enjoy having to explore every nook and cranny of a zone to keep in line with the level suggestions for quests?

Do you actively notice the ferrymen and means to travel to other zones while questing via the normal method?

Is your questing actively impeded as a result of scaling, by anything you did not expressly choose to do?

If you answer no to any and all of these questions, you hate the fact that you cannot resist basic impulses to go to other zones early. Not scailing. And you need. To accept that. And -move on-.

It's not hurting player progression, it's just not restricting it, with the same, stupid restrictions that have been popularized for other MMO's.