What are the odds of getting the right stuff with BOP in dungeons

nk125x

Lets just look at getting 2 precise daggers for duel wielding

Weapons only drop from the last boss with jewellery

That's 12 weapons with 2 jewellery pieces, so a 1 in 14 chance

9 traits so 1 in 126

We need 2 of them so we need to run them twice.

ASSUMING RNG IS FAIR and precise has the same chance as dropping as Training or Prosperous!!!!

You will have to run a single dungeon 252 times to get what you want!

Hamiltonmath

But guaranteed drop, so if your people are farming it with you, you can do that in a 1/4 of the time.

GilGalad

Ok so jewelry only drops in 1 trait, so it's 9*12+2 = 110 possible drops per set. The problem is that there is more than one set per du from and I guess the bosses will only drop one item, not one of every set. For most dungeons it's 2 or even 3 item sets.
On the other hand you are able to trade drops within your group, so with 3 friends helping your odds will be 4 times better.

nk125x

I forgot there are 2 other sets

So really it is 756 times you need to run that single dungeon.

Oh yes 3 others might trade with you (not if they want it too so)

assuming they are there just to help you and not them that is 189 times you need to run the dungeon

AND THAT ASSUMES THE TRAIT YOU WANT DROPS FAIRLY AND THE LOOT TABLES ARN'T BIASED TOWARDS PROSPEROUS AND TRAINING

mobicera

nk125x wrote: »

AND THAT ASSUMES THE TRAIT YOU WANT DROPS FAIRLY AND THE LOOT TABLES ARN'T BIASED TOWARDS PROSPEROUS AND TRAINING

That right there is the biggest problem, as it does seem that the loot table is skewed towards these garbage traits.

Dromede

Yeah, i'm more opposed to bop than not.. Did devs ever gave a reason why they did that?

waterfairy

nk125x wrote: »

AND THAT ASSUMES THE TRAIT YOU WANT DROPS FAIRLY AND THE LOOT TABLES ARN'T BIASED TOWARDS PROSPEROUS AND TRAINING

I swear there's someone at ZOS trolling with these traits

code65536

Weapons drop in 8 traits.
Jewelry has a fixed trait (thank goodness for that).

• Weapons pool: 3*13*8 = 312 (shields are counted as weapons for drop purposes, so it's 13, not 12)
• Jewelry pool: 3*2*1 = 6

Now, if it's 50% chance to get a weapon, then that's 1/624, or 1/156 if your entire group will help you.

If the weapon and jewelry pools are shared, then that screws over your chance at getting a jewelry piece, but then it becomes 1/318 solo or 1/80 for a full group for a specific weapon.

From my limited time on the PTS, I think it's the former, where the weapon and jewelry pools are separate, and you have a X% chance of getting one or the other.

Either way, it's pretty abysmal.

1. While armor pieces are divided amongst bosses, weapon drops are all concentrated on one boss, and it's not even guaranteed on that boss. Yes, there are fewer weapon pieces, but not by that much (13 vs. 21). Solution: Make the final boss drop weapons and jewelry.
2. Trait pollution is a serious problem here. For weapons, the culprits are Training and Charged. For BoP items, trait pollution just adds to the frustration of RNG. Solution: Leave Training/Prosperous/Charged for BoE sets, but strike them from the BoP sets.
3. While ZOS did move to eliminate some nonsensical weapon choices (namely, ranged weapons for melee sets), they need to go farther. Solution: Go farther; eliminate all staves for stamina sets and eliminate all stam weapons except for shields and swords for magicka sets.

Integral1900

Run the same dungeon over 600 times, sod that, did that with WGT, never again. I'll just have to put up with lower level stuff or buy it in the guild stores. But doing that for each part of a multi part set, that's just masochisum

Qbiken

I think it was a nice idea to bt certain sets in specific areas (as we´ll see in the next update). But making all sets BoP was a huge mistake if you ask me. Imagine the scenario:

You´re in, lets say Deshaan, and you´re after the pieces of the new set called Mother´s Sorrow (since it only drops in Deshaan you need to go there and farm it). Let´s also say you´re a seasoned player with a lot of CP. You go into a puplic dungeon or dvelve to realise that there´re several other seasoned players there for the same reason as you. Since it´s a little higher change that the set-pieces will drop from a boss, people will stand there waiting for the boss to spawn, just to kill it within the next 10 seconds. As a seasoned player you´re kind of used to this gameplay since you´ve experienced the "competition" of killing certain mobs fast. But for a new player (a lot of new players will come with 1 Tamriel) who just want to clear a dungeon for "fun" (or whatever reason) who isn´t there for endgame reasons, this won´t be much fun. Seeing a lot of seasoned players in dungeons/dvelves clearing all mobs just to farm setpieces. If these new sets were to be BoE instead, they could have been sold instead and the amount of people farming these setpieces will decrease.

nk125x

Qbiken wrote: »

I think it was a nice idea to bt certain sets in specific areas (as we´ll see in the next update). But making all sets BoP was a huge mistake if you ask me. Imagine the scenario:

You´re in, lets say Deshaan, and you´re after the pieces of the new set called Mother´s Sorrow (since it only drops in Deshaan you need to go there and farm it). Let´s also say you´re a seasoned player with a lot of CP. You go into a puplic dungeon or dvelve to realise that there´re several other seasoned players there for the same reason as you. Since it´s a little higher change that the set-pieces will drop from a boss, people will stand there waiting for the boss to spawn, just to kill it within the next 10 seconds. As a seasoned player you´re kind of used to this gameplay since you´ve experienced the "competition" of killing certain mobs fast. But for a new player (a lot of new players will come with 1 Tamriel) who just want to clear a dungeon for "fun" (or whatever reason) who isn´t there for endgame reasons, this won´t be much fun. Seeing a lot of seasoned players in dungeons/dvelves clearing all mobs just to farm setpieces. If these new sets were to be BoE instead, they could have been sold instead and the amount of people farming these setpieces will decrease.

Sets in zones are BOE, its the dungeon and trial sets that are BOP. That is why those are the ones worth farming as you can sell them or buy the missing piece.

Wreuntzylla

Vigarr wrote: »

nk125x wrote: »

AND THAT ASSUMES THE TRAIT YOU WANT DROPS FAIRLY AND THE LOOT TABLES ARN'T BIASED TOWARDS PROSPEROUS AND TRAINING

I swear there's someone at ZOS trolling with these traits

And yet there will be people who run the dungeons upwards of a thousand times. More akin to golden handcuffs.

code65536

Qbiken wrote: »

I think it was a nice idea to bt certain sets in specific areas (as we´ll see in the next update). But making all sets BoP was a huge mistake if you ask me. Imagine the scenario:

You´re in, lets say Deshaan, and you´re after the pieces of the new set called Mother´s Sorrow (since it only drops in Deshaan you need to go there and farm it). Let´s also say you´re a seasoned player with a lot of CP. You go into a puplic dungeon or dvelve to realise that there´re several other seasoned players there for the same reason as you. Since it´s a little higher change that the set-pieces will drop from a boss, people will stand there waiting for the boss to spawn, just to kill it within the next 10 seconds. As a seasoned player you´re kind of used to this gameplay since you´ve experienced the "competition" of killing certain mobs fast. But for a new player (a lot of new players will come with 1 Tamriel) who just want to clear a dungeon for "fun" (or whatever reason) who isn´t there for endgame reasons, this won´t be much fun. Seeing a lot of seasoned players in dungeons/dvelves clearing all mobs just to farm setpieces. If these new sets were to be BoE instead, they could have been sold instead and the amount of people farming these setpieces will decrease.

We already see that with people doing zerging World Bosses in Wrothgar.

That said, Mother's Sorrow and other overland set pieces are BoE, and the Wrothgar set pieces are being converted to BoE (though not retroactively for items that have already been bound--but if you have an item still in a coffer, don't remove it until after the patch).

The BoP sets are all located in instanced content--group dungeons (not public dungeons) and trials.

nk125x

Something else brought up in otter threads is the effect on the economy

Mic1007

One word: Low.

Qbiken

nk125x wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I think it was a nice idea to bt certain sets in specific areas (as we´ll see in the next update). But making all sets BoP was a huge mistake if you ask me. Imagine the scenario:

You´re in, lets say Deshaan, and you´re after the pieces of the new set called Mother´s Sorrow (since it only drops in Deshaan you need to go there and farm it). Let´s also say you´re a seasoned player with a lot of CP. You go into a puplic dungeon or dvelve to realise that there´re several other seasoned players there for the same reason as you. Since it´s a little higher change that the set-pieces will drop from a boss, people will stand there waiting for the boss to spawn, just to kill it within the next 10 seconds. As a seasoned player you´re kind of used to this gameplay since you´ve experienced the "competition" of killing certain mobs fast. But for a new player (a lot of new players will come with 1 Tamriel) who just want to clear a dungeon for "fun" (or whatever reason) who isn´t there for endgame reasons, this won´t be much fun. Seeing a lot of seasoned players in dungeons/dvelves clearing all mobs just to farm setpieces. If these new sets were to be BoE instead, they could have been sold instead and the amount of people farming these setpieces will decrease.

Sets in zones are BOE, its the dungeon and trial sets that are BOP. That is why those are the ones worth farming as you can sell them or buy the missing piece.

Thanks for updating me on this matter, sometimes it feels good to be proven wrong. Thanks

DRXHarbinger

nk125x wrote: »

Lets just look at getting 2 precise daggers for duel wielding

Weapons only drop from the last boss with jewellery

That's 12 weapons with 2 jewellery pieces, so a 1 in 14 chance

9 traits so 1 in 126

We need 2 of them so we need to run them twice.

ASSUMING RNG IS FAIR and precise has the same chance as dropping as Training or Prosperous!!!!

You will have to run a single dungeon 252 times to get what you want!

Divide by 4. Your group shouldn't be greedy and keep what they don't want.

Hamiltonmath

Ok, so you can hate me, but part of the fun is grinding for the stuff you want. If everyone got what they wanted right away, this game would die quick.

Hamiltonmath

Oh, and let's not forget that drops will be more "logical", so you won't see heavy armor sets dropping bows.

DRXHarbinger

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

Oh, and let's not forget that drops will be more "logical", so you won't see heavy armor sets dropping bows.

True. No more trinimac 2h mauls or briarheart restos.

Minute_Waltz

I remember reading about smart loots so you won't get certain weapons that don't make sense (no bows in magicka sets etc). Is that coming this patch?

elvenmad

look on the bright side you have more chance than getting an exclusive prize from a Crown Crate, and people will be paying real cash for those

acw37162

If you pug with randoms poor to terrible.

If you run with friends who share decent to good.

FireCowCommando

elvenmad wrote: »

look on the bright side you have more chance than getting an exclusive prize from a Crown Crate, and people will be paying real cash for those

A prize you say? A very large credit card statement in the mail. perhaps?

Skinzz

My last 9 undaunted keys gave me 7 prosperous, 1 training and 1 sturdy like wtf ..

alexkdd99

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

nk125x wrote: »

Lets just look at getting 2 precise daggers for duel wielding

Weapons only drop from the last boss with jewellery

That's 12 weapons with 2 jewellery pieces, so a 1 in 14 chance

9 traits so 1 in 126

We need 2 of them so we need to run them twice.

ASSUMING RNG IS FAIR and precise has the same chance as dropping as Training or Prosperous!!!!

You will have to run a single dungeon 252 times to get what you want!

Divide by 4. Your group shouldn't be greedy and keep what they don't want.

If your group wants the same items which has happened alot. Especially when I am running vwgt, seems everyone wants spc.
I really can't see any positives with this change.

Khaos_Bane

nk125x wrote: »

I forgot there are 2 other sets

So really it is 756 times you need to run that single dungeon.

Oh yes 3 others might trade with you (not if they want it too so)

assuming they are there just to help you and not them that is 189 times you need to run the dungeon

AND THAT ASSUMES THE TRAIT YOU WANT DROPS FAIRLY AND THE LOOT TABLES ARN'T BIASED TOWARDS PROSPEROUS AND TRAINING

This, it's complete BS to have the loot tables favored so heavily towards those traits. We have complained over and over and over again but they continue to be completely silent.

AnnieBeGood

I have a question..... say you do those dungeons hundreds of times to get the right piece in the right trait and finally..... Hurray! You did it.
Now what?
So you can run it again stronger?
PVP?
Run a different one a hundred times to get something else?
Bragging rights?
What?

DRXHarbinger

AnnieBeGood wrote: »

I have a question..... say you do those dungeons hundreds of times to get the right piece in the right trait and finally..... Hurray! You did it.
Now what?
So you can run it again stronger?
PVP?
Run a different one a hundred times to get something else?
Bragging rights?
What?

You take your epic new gear and your friends and you *** Rhakkat in the ass with it.

GrumpStump

AnnieBeGood wrote: »

I have a question..... say you do those dungeons hundreds of times to get the right piece in the right trait and finally..... Hurray! You did it.
Now what?
So you can run it again stronger?
PVP?
Run a different one a hundred times to get something else?
Bragging rights?
What?

All of the above.


GrumpStump

AnnieBeGood

Ah. Ok.
ty.