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Effective Spell Power of a Mage Sorcerer based on 3 item sets.
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hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Thrasher91604 wrote: »
Well obviously thThrasher91604 wrote: »
The thief. Its more effective in most cases than the shadow.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Do you really think 17k health + Ebon isn't enough?..
You won't have 17k health and ebon. You will have 17k with Ebon if you don't wear TBS.
I have 17k without TBS and Ebon right now... 16997 to be exact. Wearing Julianos, Aether and Willpower (my vDSA set-up). And I'm not even at the CP cap (521 currently). Don't believe me? I'll post a picture if you want. So in the next patch you should be looking at 18446 health with CP561. Only undaunted and heavy armor passives for 1 piece worn. No Ebon or 1 piece health bonus.
Anyway @hedna123b14_ESO check out the updated stuff.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »alot more to the pve side than effective spell dmg, theif gain of 16%+ and shadow of 18%+ is huge, effective spell damage is not king in pve group play.
Effective spell power is meant to be the indicator of how strong your character is. Group buffs are taken into account, i will edit the OP and give new results, taking into account 1 horn every 30 seconds and all the feedback.
to an extent yes, but having more crit and harder hitting crit surpasses sp power at a point in pve
You don't understand what effective spell power is, do you?.. It is the function that encompasses your Spell Damage, your Maximum Magicka, your Spell Critical Chance, you Spell Critical Damage and your Spell Penetration. So its a function that has all the components that determine your damage output. Its a custom stat that represents your overall power with spell/magicka attacks and can be used to compare different build setups. The higher the number, the better your build is. So its a tool for comparing builds. I put the formula in the OP if you want to have fun calculating stuff for yourself
Hey I dont follow your values.
Example:
Julianos you state spell damage as 3559.
Your set up has Aether 3 jewelry and 1 weapon = 174 spell damage per jewelry piece, 129 from aether bonus and 348 x .5 from weapon enchant = 825 spell damage
5 Julianos = 300 spell damage
Staff = 1335 spell damage
Spell power cure = 258
(1335 + 300 + 825 + 258) x 1.25 = 3397 spell damage
Where are you getting the other spell damage from?
Next Your Crit damage is completely wrong.
50 base, 12 minor force 17 elfborn and 30 major force...except major force is not additive but multiplicative. This means that Critical damage on julianos is (50 + 12 + 17) x 1.3 = 102.7
Both of these changes should lower your overall Julianos potential to 13707 + Ilambris
For TBS applying the same logic would net you 13735 + Ilambris. So not only is TBS better, it is buffing Ilambrris unlike Julianos.
Class passives 6% with 3 sorcerer abilities slotted. So its (1335+299+825+258) x 1.31 = 3559.3
You sure about Horn being multiplicative?
Well that certainly changes some stuff...
So Julianos without Minor Force = 67 x 1.3 = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12770
Mother's Sorrow without Minor Force = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12440
TBS without Minor Force = 85 x 1.3 = 110.5 so the Effective SP is 12675
With Minor Force respectively: 102.7; 102.7; 126.1
13646 for Julianos
13346 for Mother's Sorrow
13421 for TBS
Julianos is still on top... You are right about Ilambris though. But Julianos has a higher critical chance so that might very well outplay TBS critical damage benefit.
Hey good catch on the sorc passive. Im not getting the same values for TBS crit damage though.
My formula is:
(Base + Minor force + Elfborn + Shadow) x 1.3 = (.5 + .12 + .17 + .183) x 1.3 = 1.265
(Spell damage + Max Mag/10.46) x (1+ (Crit chance)(Crit Damage))
So for Julianos:
(3560 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.712)(1.027)) = (8081) x 1.731 = 13990
For TBS:
(3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.649)(1.265)) = (7688) x 1.821 = 13999
So TBS wins
Damn it I think I messed up with the spell damage values on TBS and Mother's Sorrow..!
What I really meant is: 13638 for TBS. Which is much much closer to Julianos and this does seem about right.
Well we got pretty much the same values for the Critical Damage on TBS = (0.5 + 0.12 + 0.167 + 0.183) x 1.3 = 1.261
You rounded up the Elfborn, thing is I don't know if its meant to be rounded up, what I do know is that it does suffer from jump points..! You also forgot to include the spell penetration in the formula. You round up too much
So if I go without rounding up at all:
For Julianos: 8080 x 1.73122 = 13988.29; then for the penetration you go 13988.29 x 0.9776 = 13674.95
For TBS: I got 7688 x 1.81839 = 13979.77; then with penetration: 13979.77 x 0.9776 = 13666.62.
Another thing is that I used 10.5 instead of 10.46... So that probably explains why we got different values in the first place.
I guess it all depends on whether we are supposed to round up the Elfborn points or no. The 0.4 difference in the Critical Damage has affected the final results by quite a lot. I'll update the OP again later on in the day, when we will get to a conclusion.
But wait! Its not over, there's still Scathing Mage waiting to be analyzed
Elfborn works in jumpoints, so no 16.7...only 17. Asayre has a jump point list in his post and each 1 corresponds to a crit damage point. So 56 in elfborn is 17 crit damage points.
The penetration plays no role because its the same across the board for all of the sets, so it can be excluded from the equation. 10.46 is the more precise number to use for magicka to spell damage. Also scathing mage is not something Id use on a sorc because of how important the health bonus is and how much harder it is to proc scathing on a sorc.
Oh my god, I totally forgot about the jump points... Stupid me.
Well I mean the skill coefficient really doesn't matter as long as our CHC x CHD is the same, because its still proportionate. Yes you don't need the penetration at all for the comparison, I just wanted to try to get a more or less accurate value.
Well you are right then. TBS has the maximum damage potential.!
But then again what about without the Horn? What about without Minor Force? Its is good to run Beast Trap on a sorcerer instead of Inner Light, but you can't always get into close range with the boss (Twins...), and you may not always want to grab the healer's synergies because they are for tanks and Alkosh/Moondancer. We still have to take into account the fact that Major Force is only up 1/3rd of the time.
So without Minor Force and Major Force, but with all other group buffs we get:
For Julianos : (3559 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.67 x 0.712) = 11934.5
For TBS : (3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.853 x 0.649) = 11944.1
So TBS is still king! Guess I'll take it out of my bank then lol
@hedna123b14_ESO Thanks for the help
Hehe anytime:) but to be honest even if it showed a slight loss the health bonus is totally worth it.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Thrasher91604 wrote: »
Well obviously thThrasher91604 wrote: »
The thief. Its more effective in most cases than the shadow.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Do you really think 17k health + Ebon isn't enough?..
You won't have 17k health and ebon. You will have 17k with Ebon if you don't wear TBS.
I have 17k without TBS and Ebon right now... 16997 to be exact. Wearing Julianos, Aether and Willpower (my vDSA set-up). And I'm not even at the CP cap (521 currently). Don't believe me? I'll post a picture if you want. So in the next patch you should be looking at 18446 health with CP561. Only undaunted and heavy armor passives for 1 piece worn. No Ebon or 1 piece health bonus.
Anyway @hedna123b14_ESO check out the updated stuff.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »alot more to the pve side than effective spell dmg, theif gain of 16%+ and shadow of 18%+ is huge, effective spell damage is not king in pve group play.
Effective spell power is meant to be the indicator of how strong your character is. Group buffs are taken into account, i will edit the OP and give new results, taking into account 1 horn every 30 seconds and all the feedback.
to an extent yes, but having more crit and harder hitting crit surpasses sp power at a point in pve
You don't understand what effective spell power is, do you?.. It is the function that encompasses your Spell Damage, your Maximum Magicka, your Spell Critical Chance, you Spell Critical Damage and your Spell Penetration. So its a function that has all the components that determine your damage output. Its a custom stat that represents your overall power with spell/magicka attacks and can be used to compare different build setups. The higher the number, the better your build is. So its a tool for comparing builds. I put the formula in the OP if you want to have fun calculating stuff for yourself
Hey I dont follow your values.
Example:
Julianos you state spell damage as 3559.
Your set up has Aether 3 jewelry and 1 weapon = 174 spell damage per jewelry piece, 129 from aether bonus and 348 x .5 from weapon enchant = 825 spell damage
5 Julianos = 300 spell damage
Staff = 1335 spell damage
Spell power cure = 258
(1335 + 300 + 825 + 258) x 1.25 = 3397 spell damage
Where are you getting the other spell damage from?
Next Your Crit damage is completely wrong.
50 base, 12 minor force 17 elfborn and 30 major force...except major force is not additive but multiplicative. This means that Critical damage on julianos is (50 + 12 + 17) x 1.3 = 102.7
Both of these changes should lower your overall Julianos potential to 13707 + Ilambris
For TBS applying the same logic would net you 13735 + Ilambris. So not only is TBS better, it is buffing Ilambrris unlike Julianos.
Class passives 6% with 3 sorcerer abilities slotted. So its (1335+299+825+258) x 1.31 = 3559.3
You sure about Horn being multiplicative? Well that certainly changes some stuff...
So Julianos without Minor Force = 67 x 1.3 = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12770
Mother's Sorrow without Minor Force = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12440
TBS without Minor Force = 85 x 1.3 = 110.5 so the Effective SP is 12675
With Minor Force respectively: 102.7; 102.7; 126.1
13646 for Julianos
13346 for Mother's Sorrow
13421 for TBS
Julianos is still on top... You are right about Ilambris though. But Julianos has a higher critical chance so that might very well outplay TBS critical damage benefit.
Hey good catch on the sorc passive. Im not getting the same values for TBS crit damage though.
My formula is:
(Base + Minor force + Elfborn + Shadow) x 1.3 = (.5 + .12 + .17 + .183) x 1.3 = 1.265
(Spell damage + Max Mag/10.46) x (1+ (Crit chance)(Crit Damage))
So for Julianos:
(3560 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.712)(1.027)) = (8081) x 1.731 = 13990
For TBS:
(3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.649)(1.265)) = (7688) x 1.821 = 13999
So TBS wins
Damn it I think I messed up with the spell damage values on TBS and Mother's Sorrow..!
What I really meant is: 13638 for TBS. Which is much much closer to Julianos and this does seem about right.
Well we got pretty much the same values for the Critical Damage on TBS = (0.5 + 0.12 + 0.167 + 0.183) x 1.3 = 1.261
You rounded up the Elfborn, thing is I don't know if its meant to be rounded up, what I do know is that it does suffer from jump points..! You also forgot to include the spell penetration in the formula. You round up too much So if I go without rounding up at all:
For Julianos: 8080 x 1.73122 = 13988.29; then for the penetration you go 13988.29 x 0.9776 = 13674.95
For TBS: I got 7688 x 1.81839 = 13979.77; then with penetration: 13979.77 x 0.9776 = 13666.62.
Another thing is that I used 10.5 instead of 10.46... So that probably explains why we got different values in the first place.
I guess it all depends on whether we are supposed to round up the Elfborn points or no. The 0.4 difference in the Critical Damage has affected the final results by quite a lot. I'll update the OP again later on in the day, when we will get to a conclusion.
But wait! Its not over, there's still Scathing Mage waiting to be analyzed
Elfborn works in jumpoints, so no 16.7...only 17. Asayre has a jump point list in his post and each 1 corresponds to a crit damage point. So 56 in elfborn is 17 crit damage points.
The penetration plays no role because its the same across the board for all of the sets, so it can be excluded from the equation. 10.46 is the more precise number to use for magicka to spell damage. Also scathing mage is not something Id use on a sorc because of how important the health bonus is and how much harder it is to proc scathing on a sorc.
Oh my god, I totally forgot about the jump points... Stupid me.
Well I mean the skill coefficient really doesn't matter as long as our CHC x CHD is the same, because its still proportionate. Yes you don't need the penetration at all for the comparison, I just wanted to try to get a more or less accurate value.
Well you are right then. TBS has the maximum damage potential.! But then again what about without the Horn? What about without Minor Force? Its is good to run Beast Trap on a sorcerer instead of Inner Light, but you can't always get into close range with the boss (Twins...), and you may not always want to grab the healer's synergies because they are for tanks and Alkosh/Moondancer. We still have to take into account the fact that Major Force is only up 1/3rd of the time.
So without Minor Force and Major Force, but with all other group buffs we get:
For Julianos : (3559 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.67 x 0.712) = 11934.5
For TBS : (3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.853 x 0.649) = 11944.1
So TBS is still king! Guess I'll take it out of my bank then lol
@hedna123b14_ESO Thanks for the help
Hehe anytime:) but to be honest even if it showed a slight loss the health bonus is totally worth it.
Yeah well I mean we were talking differences of less than 1% so it really wasn't significant.
So next patch we'll all be sitting at around 20k health with TBS so one shots shouldn't be an issue unless you look for the big red AoE and run into those on purpose!
What bothers me is the fact that NBs are more effective with TBS because they have the most crit chance and crit damage. Templars also have more critical damage. DKs have all those cool fire sets, like Burning Spell Weave and Silks, and then there's the sorc who has nothing much. NBs are also more effective with Necropotence to reach those insane magicka numbers, and on top of that their Scathing uptime is much higher than it could ever be on a sorcerer. So in the end, what does a sorc really specialize in? What's a set that reflects their identity the best while matching the efficiency of TBS? This is the reason I was actually starting to even make this comparison, as I saw that some sets are just so much more powerful on other classes (yet their DPS is still below the max sorcerer DPS output from what I've seen so far). I don't understand it too well @ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Thrasher91604 wrote: »
Well obviously thThrasher91604 wrote: »
The thief. Its more effective in most cases than the shadow.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Do you really think 17k health + Ebon isn't enough?..
You won't have 17k health and ebon. You will have 17k with Ebon if you don't wear TBS.
I have 17k without TBS and Ebon right now... 16997 to be exact. Wearing Julianos, Aether and Willpower (my vDSA set-up). And I'm not even at the CP cap (521 currently). Don't believe me? I'll post a picture if you want. So in the next patch you should be looking at 18446 health with CP561. Only undaunted and heavy armor passives for 1 piece worn. No Ebon or 1 piece health bonus.
Anyway @hedna123b14_ESO check out the updated stuff.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »alot more to the pve side than effective spell dmg, theif gain of 16%+ and shadow of 18%+ is huge, effective spell damage is not king in pve group play.
Effective spell power is meant to be the indicator of how strong your character is. Group buffs are taken into account, i will edit the OP and give new results, taking into account 1 horn every 30 seconds and all the feedback.
to an extent yes, but having more crit and harder hitting crit surpasses sp power at a point in pve
You don't understand what effective spell power is, do you?.. It is the function that encompasses your Spell Damage, your Maximum Magicka, your Spell Critical Chance, you Spell Critical Damage and your Spell Penetration. So its a function that has all the components that determine your damage output. Its a custom stat that represents your overall power with spell/magicka attacks and can be used to compare different build setups. The higher the number, the better your build is. So its a tool for comparing builds. I put the formula in the OP if you want to have fun calculating stuff for yourself
Hey I dont follow your values.
Example:
Julianos you state spell damage as 3559.
Your set up has Aether 3 jewelry and 1 weapon = 174 spell damage per jewelry piece, 129 from aether bonus and 348 x .5 from weapon enchant = 825 spell damage
5 Julianos = 300 spell damage
Staff = 1335 spell damage
Spell power cure = 258
(1335 + 300 + 825 + 258) x 1.25 = 3397 spell damage
Where are you getting the other spell damage from?
Next Your Crit damage is completely wrong.
50 base, 12 minor force 17 elfborn and 30 major force...except major force is not additive but multiplicative. This means that Critical damage on julianos is (50 + 12 + 17) x 1.3 = 102.7
Both of these changes should lower your overall Julianos potential to 13707 + Ilambris
For TBS applying the same logic would net you 13735 + Ilambris. So not only is TBS better, it is buffing Ilambrris unlike Julianos.
Class passives 6% with 3 sorcerer abilities slotted. So its (1335+299+825+258) x 1.31 = 3559.3
You sure about Horn being multiplicative? Well that certainly changes some stuff...
So Julianos without Minor Force = 67 x 1.3 = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12770
Mother's Sorrow without Minor Force = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12440
TBS without Minor Force = 85 x 1.3 = 110.5 so the Effective SP is 12675
With Minor Force respectively: 102.7; 102.7; 126.1
13646 for Julianos
13346 for Mother's Sorrow
13421 for TBS
Julianos is still on top... You are right about Ilambris though. But Julianos has a higher critical chance so that might very well outplay TBS critical damage benefit.
Hey good catch on the sorc passive. Im not getting the same values for TBS crit damage though.
My formula is:
(Base + Minor force + Elfborn + Shadow) x 1.3 = (.5 + .12 + .17 + .183) x 1.3 = 1.265
(Spell damage + Max Mag/10.46) x (1+ (Crit chance)(Crit Damage))
So for Julianos:
(3560 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.712)(1.027)) = (8081) x 1.731 = 13990
For TBS:
(3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.649)(1.265)) = (7688) x 1.821 = 13999
So TBS wins
Damn it I think I messed up with the spell damage values on TBS and Mother's Sorrow..!
What I really meant is: 13638 for TBS. Which is much much closer to Julianos and this does seem about right.
Well we got pretty much the same values for the Critical Damage on TBS = (0.5 + 0.12 + 0.167 + 0.183) x 1.3 = 1.261
You rounded up the Elfborn, thing is I don't know if its meant to be rounded up, what I do know is that it does suffer from jump points..! You also forgot to include the spell penetration in the formula. You round up too much So if I go without rounding up at all:
For Julianos: 8080 x 1.73122 = 13988.29; then for the penetration you go 13988.29 x 0.9776 = 13674.95
For TBS: I got 7688 x 1.81839 = 13979.77; then with penetration: 13979.77 x 0.9776 = 13666.62.
Another thing is that I used 10.5 instead of 10.46... So that probably explains why we got different values in the first place.
I guess it all depends on whether we are supposed to round up the Elfborn points or no. The 0.4 difference in the Critical Damage has affected the final results by quite a lot. I'll update the OP again later on in the day, when we will get to a conclusion.
But wait! Its not over, there's still Scathing Mage waiting to be analyzed
Elfborn works in jumpoints, so no 16.7...only 17. Asayre has a jump point list in his post and each 1 corresponds to a crit damage point. So 56 in elfborn is 17 crit damage points.
The penetration plays no role because its the same across the board for all of the sets, so it can be excluded from the equation. 10.46 is the more precise number to use for magicka to spell damage. Also scathing mage is not something Id use on a sorc because of how important the health bonus is and how much harder it is to proc scathing on a sorc.
Oh my god, I totally forgot about the jump points... Stupid me.
Well I mean the skill coefficient really doesn't matter as long as our CHC x CHD is the same, because its still proportionate. Yes you don't need the penetration at all for the comparison, I just wanted to try to get a more or less accurate value.
Well you are right then. TBS has the maximum damage potential.! But then again what about without the Horn? What about without Minor Force? Its is good to run Beast Trap on a sorcerer instead of Inner Light, but you can't always get into close range with the boss (Twins...), and you may not always want to grab the healer's synergies because they are for tanks and Alkosh/Moondancer. We still have to take into account the fact that Major Force is only up 1/3rd of the time.
So without Minor Force and Major Force, but with all other group buffs we get:
For Julianos : (3559 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.67 x 0.712) = 11934.5
For TBS : (3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.853 x 0.649) = 11944.1
So TBS is still king! Guess I'll take it out of my bank then lol
@hedna123b14_ESO Thanks for the help
Hehe anytime:) but to be honest even if it showed a slight loss the health bonus is totally worth it.
Yeah well I mean we were talking differences of less than 1% so it really wasn't significant.
So next patch we'll all be sitting at around 20k health with TBS so one shots shouldn't be an issue unless you look for the big red AoE and run into those on purpose!
What bothers me is the fact that NBs are more effective with TBS because they have the most crit chance and crit damage. Templars also have more critical damage. DKs have all those cool fire sets, like Burning Spell Weave and Silks, and then there's the sorc who has nothing much. NBs are also more effective with Necropotence to reach those insane magicka numbers, and on top of that their Scathing uptime is much higher than it could ever be on a sorcerer. So in the end, what does a sorc really specialize in? What's a set that reflects their identity the best while matching the efficiency of TBS? This is the reason I was actually starting to even make this comparison, as I saw that some sets are just so much more powerful on other classes (yet their DPS is still below the max sorcerer DPS output from what I've seen so far). I don't understand it too well
Sorc if played well (and this is a big one) has the highest max damage potential of all classes. The reason other classes generally outperform sorcs is because so few people can play them well. Like a magblade has the easiest rotation (well not as easy as a templar one, but still pretty easy), so it's easy to do well on one.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Thrasher91604 wrote: »
Well obviously thThrasher91604 wrote: »
The thief. Its more effective in most cases than the shadow.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Do you really think 17k health + Ebon isn't enough?..
You won't have 17k health and ebon. You will have 17k with Ebon if you don't wear TBS.
I have 17k without TBS and Ebon right now... 16997 to be exact. Wearing Julianos, Aether and Willpower (my vDSA set-up). And I'm not even at the CP cap (521 currently). Don't believe me? I'll post a picture if you want. So in the next patch you should be looking at 18446 health with CP561. Only undaunted and heavy armor passives for 1 piece worn. No Ebon or 1 piece health bonus.
Anyway @hedna123b14_ESO check out the updated stuff.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »alot more to the pve side than effective spell dmg, theif gain of 16%+ and shadow of 18%+ is huge, effective spell damage is not king in pve group play.
Effective spell power is meant to be the indicator of how strong your character is. Group buffs are taken into account, i will edit the OP and give new results, taking into account 1 horn every 30 seconds and all the feedback.
to an extent yes, but having more crit and harder hitting crit surpasses sp power at a point in pve
You don't understand what effective spell power is, do you?.. It is the function that encompasses your Spell Damage, your Maximum Magicka, your Spell Critical Chance, you Spell Critical Damage and your Spell Penetration. So its a function that has all the components that determine your damage output. Its a custom stat that represents your overall power with spell/magicka attacks and can be used to compare different build setups. The higher the number, the better your build is. So its a tool for comparing builds. I put the formula in the OP if you want to have fun calculating stuff for yourself
Hey I dont follow your values.
Example:
Julianos you state spell damage as 3559.
Your set up has Aether 3 jewelry and 1 weapon = 174 spell damage per jewelry piece, 129 from aether bonus and 348 x .5 from weapon enchant = 825 spell damage
5 Julianos = 300 spell damage
Staff = 1335 spell damage
Spell power cure = 258
(1335 + 300 + 825 + 258) x 1.25 = 3397 spell damage
Where are you getting the other spell damage from?
Next Your Crit damage is completely wrong.
50 base, 12 minor force 17 elfborn and 30 major force...except major force is not additive but multiplicative. This means that Critical damage on julianos is (50 + 12 + 17) x 1.3 = 102.7
Both of these changes should lower your overall Julianos potential to 13707 + Ilambris
For TBS applying the same logic would net you 13735 + Ilambris. So not only is TBS better, it is buffing Ilambrris unlike Julianos.
Class passives 6% with 3 sorcerer abilities slotted. So its (1335+299+825+258) x 1.31 = 3559.3
You sure about Horn being multiplicative? Well that certainly changes some stuff...
So Julianos without Minor Force = 67 x 1.3 = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12770
Mother's Sorrow without Minor Force = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12440
TBS without Minor Force = 85 x 1.3 = 110.5 so the Effective SP is 12675
With Minor Force respectively: 102.7; 102.7; 126.1
13646 for Julianos
13346 for Mother's Sorrow
13421 for TBS
Julianos is still on top... You are right about Ilambris though. But Julianos has a higher critical chance so that might very well outplay TBS critical damage benefit.
Hey good catch on the sorc passive. Im not getting the same values for TBS crit damage though.
My formula is:
(Base + Minor force + Elfborn + Shadow) x 1.3 = (.5 + .12 + .17 + .183) x 1.3 = 1.265
(Spell damage + Max Mag/10.46) x (1+ (Crit chance)(Crit Damage))
So for Julianos:
(3560 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.712)(1.027)) = (8081) x 1.731 = 13990
For TBS:
(3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.649)(1.265)) = (7688) x 1.821 = 13999
So TBS wins
Damn it I think I messed up with the spell damage values on TBS and Mother's Sorrow..!
What I really meant is: 13638 for TBS. Which is much much closer to Julianos and this does seem about right.
Well we got pretty much the same values for the Critical Damage on TBS = (0.5 + 0.12 + 0.167 + 0.183) x 1.3 = 1.261
You rounded up the Elfborn, thing is I don't know if its meant to be rounded up, what I do know is that it does suffer from jump points..! You also forgot to include the spell penetration in the formula. You round up too much So if I go without rounding up at all:
For Julianos: 8080 x 1.73122 = 13988.29; then for the penetration you go 13988.29 x 0.9776 = 13674.95
For TBS: I got 7688 x 1.81839 = 13979.77; then with penetration: 13979.77 x 0.9776 = 13666.62.
Another thing is that I used 10.5 instead of 10.46... So that probably explains why we got different values in the first place.
I guess it all depends on whether we are supposed to round up the Elfborn points or no. The 0.4 difference in the Critical Damage has affected the final results by quite a lot. I'll update the OP again later on in the day, when we will get to a conclusion.
But wait! Its not over, there's still Scathing Mage waiting to be analyzed
Elfborn works in jumpoints, so no 16.7...only 17. Asayre has a jump point list in his post and each 1 corresponds to a crit damage point. So 56 in elfborn is 17 crit damage points.
The penetration plays no role because its the same across the board for all of the sets, so it can be excluded from the equation. 10.46 is the more precise number to use for magicka to spell damage. Also scathing mage is not something Id use on a sorc because of how important the health bonus is and how much harder it is to proc scathing on a sorc.
Oh my god, I totally forgot about the jump points... Stupid me.
Well I mean the skill coefficient really doesn't matter as long as our CHC x CHD is the same, because its still proportionate. Yes you don't need the penetration at all for the comparison, I just wanted to try to get a more or less accurate value.
Well you are right then. TBS has the maximum damage potential.! But then again what about without the Horn? What about without Minor Force? Its is good to run Beast Trap on a sorcerer instead of Inner Light, but you can't always get into close range with the boss (Twins...), and you may not always want to grab the healer's synergies because they are for tanks and Alkosh/Moondancer. We still have to take into account the fact that Major Force is only up 1/3rd of the time.
So without Minor Force and Major Force, but with all other group buffs we get:
For Julianos : (3559 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.67 x 0.712) = 11934.5
For TBS : (3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.853 x 0.649) = 11944.1
So TBS is still king! Guess I'll take it out of my bank then lol
@hedna123b14_ESO Thanks for the help
Hehe anytime:) but to be honest even if it showed a slight loss the health bonus is totally worth it.
Yeah well I mean we were talking differences of less than 1% so it really wasn't significant.
So next patch we'll all be sitting at around 20k health with TBS so one shots shouldn't be an issue unless you look for the big red AoE and run into those on purpose!
What bothers me is the fact that NBs are more effective with TBS because they have the most crit chance and crit damage. Templars also have more critical damage. DKs have all those cool fire sets, like Burning Spell Weave and Silks, and then there's the sorc who has nothing much. NBs are also more effective with Necropotence to reach those insane magicka numbers, and on top of that their Scathing uptime is much higher than it could ever be on a sorcerer. So in the end, what does a sorc really specialize in? What's a set that reflects their identity the best while matching the efficiency of TBS? This is the reason I was actually starting to even make this comparison, as I saw that some sets are just so much more powerful on other classes (yet their DPS is still below the max sorcerer DPS output from what I've seen so far). I don't understand it too well
Sorc if played well (and this is a big one) has the highest max damage potential of all classes. The reason other classes generally outperform sorcs is because so few people can play them well. Like a magblade has the easiest rotation (well not as easy as a templar one, but still pretty easy), so it's easy to do well on one.
Funny you say that, I never managed to pull as much DPS on my mage NB as on my mage sorcerer. I also find the rotation to be horribly annoying. Then again I've been playing solely sorc for pretty much a year and the rotation stuck. Yes I do agree that sorc is probably the hardest magicka class to master. I don't consider myself a master at all, but I do think that its my strongest character or at least the one I'm most comfortable with the beloved the stamina DK and stamina Sorc.
But that's not what I meant What I wanted to say is that it feels like sorcerers use the same item sets as all other magicka classes, but don't get the most out of them. TBS, Scathing and Necropotence are examples of what I mean. I never took the time to properly study and gear up more than 4 characters which is why I'll take NBs as an example:
TBS on NB: 10% more critical damage and 4% more critical chance (Merciless Resolve and Soul Harvest on front bar), thus really maximizing the potential damage (the effective spell power
) of the set.
Necro on NB: Pets only take 1 slot, reduce target's damage by 15% (dunno if it works on bosses or not) and are applied like simple DoT.
Scathing on NB: Twisting Path can proc the set on each tick. What more is there to say?
So what's a set that works best exclusively on sorcerers? Yeah that's a rough way to put it...@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Thrasher91604 wrote: »
Well obviously thThrasher91604 wrote: »
The thief. Its more effective in most cases than the shadow.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Do you really think 17k health + Ebon isn't enough?..
You won't have 17k health and ebon. You will have 17k with Ebon if you don't wear TBS.
I have 17k without TBS and Ebon right now... 16997 to be exact. Wearing Julianos, Aether and Willpower (my vDSA set-up). And I'm not even at the CP cap (521 currently). Don't believe me? I'll post a picture if you want. So in the next patch you should be looking at 18446 health with CP561. Only undaunted and heavy armor passives for 1 piece worn. No Ebon or 1 piece health bonus.
Anyway @hedna123b14_ESO check out the updated stuff.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »alot more to the pve side than effective spell dmg, theif gain of 16%+ and shadow of 18%+ is huge, effective spell damage is not king in pve group play.
Effective spell power is meant to be the indicator of how strong your character is. Group buffs are taken into account, i will edit the OP and give new results, taking into account 1 horn every 30 seconds and all the feedback.
to an extent yes, but having more crit and harder hitting crit surpasses sp power at a point in pve
You don't understand what effective spell power is, do you?.. It is the function that encompasses your Spell Damage, your Maximum Magicka, your Spell Critical Chance, you Spell Critical Damage and your Spell Penetration. So its a function that has all the components that determine your damage output. Its a custom stat that represents your overall power with spell/magicka attacks and can be used to compare different build setups. The higher the number, the better your build is. So its a tool for comparing builds. I put the formula in the OP if you want to have fun calculating stuff for yourself
Hey I dont follow your values.
Example:
Julianos you state spell damage as 3559.
Your set up has Aether 3 jewelry and 1 weapon = 174 spell damage per jewelry piece, 129 from aether bonus and 348 x .5 from weapon enchant = 825 spell damage
5 Julianos = 300 spell damage
Staff = 1335 spell damage
Spell power cure = 258
(1335 + 300 + 825 + 258) x 1.25 = 3397 spell damage
Where are you getting the other spell damage from?
Next Your Crit damage is completely wrong.
50 base, 12 minor force 17 elfborn and 30 major force...except major force is not additive but multiplicative. This means that Critical damage on julianos is (50 + 12 + 17) x 1.3 = 102.7
Both of these changes should lower your overall Julianos potential to 13707 + Ilambris
For TBS applying the same logic would net you 13735 + Ilambris. So not only is TBS better, it is buffing Ilambrris unlike Julianos.
Class passives 6% with 3 sorcerer abilities slotted. So its (1335+299+825+258) x 1.31 = 3559.3
You sure about Horn being multiplicative? Well that certainly changes some stuff...
So Julianos without Minor Force = 67 x 1.3 = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12770
Mother's Sorrow without Minor Force = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12440
TBS without Minor Force = 85 x 1.3 = 110.5 so the Effective SP is 12675
With Minor Force respectively: 102.7; 102.7; 126.1
13646 for Julianos
13346 for Mother's Sorrow
13421 for TBS
Julianos is still on top... You are right about Ilambris though. But Julianos has a higher critical chance so that might very well outplay TBS critical damage benefit.
Hey good catch on the sorc passive. Im not getting the same values for TBS crit damage though.
My formula is:
(Base + Minor force + Elfborn + Shadow) x 1.3 = (.5 + .12 + .17 + .183) x 1.3 = 1.265
(Spell damage + Max Mag/10.46) x (1+ (Crit chance)(Crit Damage))
So for Julianos:
(3560 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.712)(1.027)) = (8081) x 1.731 = 13990
For TBS:
(3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.649)(1.265)) = (7688) x 1.821 = 13999
So TBS wins
Damn it I think I messed up with the spell damage values on TBS and Mother's Sorrow..!
What I really meant is: 13638 for TBS. Which is much much closer to Julianos and this does seem about right.
Well we got pretty much the same values for the Critical Damage on TBS = (0.5 + 0.12 + 0.167 + 0.183) x 1.3 = 1.261
You rounded up the Elfborn, thing is I don't know if its meant to be rounded up, what I do know is that it does suffer from jump points..! You also forgot to include the spell penetration in the formula. You round up too much So if I go without rounding up at all:
For Julianos: 8080 x 1.73122 = 13988.29; then for the penetration you go 13988.29 x 0.9776 = 13674.95
For TBS: I got 7688 x 1.81839 = 13979.77; then with penetration: 13979.77 x 0.9776 = 13666.62.
Another thing is that I used 10.5 instead of 10.46... So that probably explains why we got different values in the first place.
I guess it all depends on whether we are supposed to round up the Elfborn points or no. The 0.4 difference in the Critical Damage has affected the final results by quite a lot. I'll update the OP again later on in the day, when we will get to a conclusion.
But wait! Its not over, there's still Scathing Mage waiting to be analyzed
Elfborn works in jumpoints, so no 16.7...only 17. Asayre has a jump point list in his post and each 1 corresponds to a crit damage point. So 56 in elfborn is 17 crit damage points.
The penetration plays no role because its the same across the board for all of the sets, so it can be excluded from the equation. 10.46 is the more precise number to use for magicka to spell damage. Also scathing mage is not something Id use on a sorc because of how important the health bonus is and how much harder it is to proc scathing on a sorc.
Oh my god, I totally forgot about the jump points... Stupid me.
Well I mean the skill coefficient really doesn't matter as long as our CHC x CHD is the same, because its still proportionate. Yes you don't need the penetration at all for the comparison, I just wanted to try to get a more or less accurate value.
Well you are right then. TBS has the maximum damage potential.! But then again what about without the Horn? What about without Minor Force? Its is good to run Beast Trap on a sorcerer instead of Inner Light, but you can't always get into close range with the boss (Twins...), and you may not always want to grab the healer's synergies because they are for tanks and Alkosh/Moondancer. We still have to take into account the fact that Major Force is only up 1/3rd of the time.
So without Minor Force and Major Force, but with all other group buffs we get:
For Julianos : (3559 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.67 x 0.712) = 11934.5
For TBS : (3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.853 x 0.649) = 11944.1
So TBS is still king! Guess I'll take it out of my bank then lol
@hedna123b14_ESO Thanks for the help
Hehe anytime:) but to be honest even if it showed a slight loss the health bonus is totally worth it.
Yeah well I mean we were talking differences of less than 1% so it really wasn't significant.
So next patch we'll all be sitting at around 20k health with TBS so one shots shouldn't be an issue unless you look for the big red AoE and run into those on purpose!
What bothers me is the fact that NBs are more effective with TBS because they have the most crit chance and crit damage. Templars also have more critical damage. DKs have all those cool fire sets, like Burning Spell Weave and Silks, and then there's the sorc who has nothing much. NBs are also more effective with Necropotence to reach those insane magicka numbers, and on top of that their Scathing uptime is much higher than it could ever be on a sorcerer. So in the end, what does a sorc really specialize in? What's a set that reflects their identity the best while matching the efficiency of TBS? This is the reason I was actually starting to even make this comparison, as I saw that some sets are just so much more powerful on other classes (yet their DPS is still below the max sorcerer DPS output from what I've seen so far). I don't understand it too well
Sorc if played well (and this is a big one) has the highest max damage potential of all classes. The reason other classes generally outperform sorcs is because so few people can play them well. Like a magblade has the easiest rotation (well not as easy as a templar one, but still pretty easy), so it's easy to do well on one.
Funny you say that, I never managed to pull as much DPS on my mage NB as on my mage sorcerer. I also find the rotation to be horribly annoying. Then again I've been playing solely sorc for pretty much a year and the rotation stuck. Yes I do agree that sorc is probably the hardest magicka class to master. I don't consider myself a master at all, but I do think that its my strongest character or at least the one I'm most comfortable with the beloved the stamina DK and stamina Sorc.
But that's not what I meant What I wanted to say is that it feels like sorcerers use the same item sets as all other magicka classes, but don't get the most out of them. TBS, Scathing and Necropotence are examples of what I mean. I never took the time to properly study and gear up more than 4 characters which is why I'll take NBs as an example:
TBS on NB: 10% more critical damage and 4% more critical chance (Merciless Resolve and Soul Harvest on front bar), thus really maximizing the potential damage (the effective spell power ) of the set.
Necro on NB: Pets only take 1 slot, reduce target's damage by 15% (dunno if it works on bosses or not) and are applied like simple DoT.
Scathing on NB: Twisting Path can proc the set on each tick. What more is there to say?
So what's a set that works best exclusively on sorcerers? Yeah that's a rough way to put it...
I wouldn't use necropotence, it's not worth it from my testing. Scathing IS good, but TBS may be out shining it as we gain more CP and put more into Elfborn. Sorcs have Ilambris and that's huge. Up to 3k single target and who knows how much AoE DPS...for a 2 piece set that's sick!0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Thrasher91604 wrote: »
Well obviously thThrasher91604 wrote: »
The thief. Its more effective in most cases than the shadow.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Do you really think 17k health + Ebon isn't enough?..
You won't have 17k health and ebon. You will have 17k with Ebon if you don't wear TBS.
I have 17k without TBS and Ebon right now... 16997 to be exact. Wearing Julianos, Aether and Willpower (my vDSA set-up). And I'm not even at the CP cap (521 currently). Don't believe me? I'll post a picture if you want. So in the next patch you should be looking at 18446 health with CP561. Only undaunted and heavy armor passives for 1 piece worn. No Ebon or 1 piece health bonus.
Anyway @hedna123b14_ESO check out the updated stuff.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »alot more to the pve side than effective spell dmg, theif gain of 16%+ and shadow of 18%+ is huge, effective spell damage is not king in pve group play.
Effective spell power is meant to be the indicator of how strong your character is. Group buffs are taken into account, i will edit the OP and give new results, taking into account 1 horn every 30 seconds and all the feedback.
to an extent yes, but having more crit and harder hitting crit surpasses sp power at a point in pve
You don't understand what effective spell power is, do you?.. It is the function that encompasses your Spell Damage, your Maximum Magicka, your Spell Critical Chance, you Spell Critical Damage and your Spell Penetration. So its a function that has all the components that determine your damage output. Its a custom stat that represents your overall power with spell/magicka attacks and can be used to compare different build setups. The higher the number, the better your build is. So its a tool for comparing builds. I put the formula in the OP if you want to have fun calculating stuff for yourself
Hey I dont follow your values.
Example:
Julianos you state spell damage as 3559.
Your set up has Aether 3 jewelry and 1 weapon = 174 spell damage per jewelry piece, 129 from aether bonus and 348 x .5 from weapon enchant = 825 spell damage
5 Julianos = 300 spell damage
Staff = 1335 spell damage
Spell power cure = 258
(1335 + 300 + 825 + 258) x 1.25 = 3397 spell damage
Where are you getting the other spell damage from?
Next Your Crit damage is completely wrong.
50 base, 12 minor force 17 elfborn and 30 major force...except major force is not additive but multiplicative. This means that Critical damage on julianos is (50 + 12 + 17) x 1.3 = 102.7
Both of these changes should lower your overall Julianos potential to 13707 + Ilambris
For TBS applying the same logic would net you 13735 + Ilambris. So not only is TBS better, it is buffing Ilambrris unlike Julianos.
Class passives 6% with 3 sorcerer abilities slotted. So its (1335+299+825+258) x 1.31 = 3559.3
You sure about Horn being multiplicative? Well that certainly changes some stuff...
So Julianos without Minor Force = 67 x 1.3 = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12770
Mother's Sorrow without Minor Force = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12440
TBS without Minor Force = 85 x 1.3 = 110.5 so the Effective SP is 12675
With Minor Force respectively: 102.7; 102.7; 126.1
13646 for Julianos
13346 for Mother's Sorrow
13421 for TBS
Julianos is still on top... You are right about Ilambris though. But Julianos has a higher critical chance so that might very well outplay TBS critical damage benefit.
Hey good catch on the sorc passive. Im not getting the same values for TBS crit damage though.
My formula is:
(Base + Minor force + Elfborn + Shadow) x 1.3 = (.5 + .12 + .17 + .183) x 1.3 = 1.265
(Spell damage + Max Mag/10.46) x (1+ (Crit chance)(Crit Damage))
So for Julianos:
(3560 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.712)(1.027)) = (8081) x 1.731 = 13990
For TBS:
(3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.649)(1.265)) = (7688) x 1.821 = 13999
So TBS wins
Damn it I think I messed up with the spell damage values on TBS and Mother's Sorrow..!
What I really meant is: 13638 for TBS. Which is much much closer to Julianos and this does seem about right.
Well we got pretty much the same values for the Critical Damage on TBS = (0.5 + 0.12 + 0.167 + 0.183) x 1.3 = 1.261
You rounded up the Elfborn, thing is I don't know if its meant to be rounded up, what I do know is that it does suffer from jump points..! You also forgot to include the spell penetration in the formula. You round up too much So if I go without rounding up at all:
For Julianos: 8080 x 1.73122 = 13988.29; then for the penetration you go 13988.29 x 0.9776 = 13674.95
For TBS: I got 7688 x 1.81839 = 13979.77; then with penetration: 13979.77 x 0.9776 = 13666.62.
Another thing is that I used 10.5 instead of 10.46... So that probably explains why we got different values in the first place.
I guess it all depends on whether we are supposed to round up the Elfborn points or no. The 0.4 difference in the Critical Damage has affected the final results by quite a lot. I'll update the OP again later on in the day, when we will get to a conclusion.
But wait! Its not over, there's still Scathing Mage waiting to be analyzed
Elfborn works in jumpoints, so no 16.7...only 17. Asayre has a jump point list in his post and each 1 corresponds to a crit damage point. So 56 in elfborn is 17 crit damage points.
The penetration plays no role because its the same across the board for all of the sets, so it can be excluded from the equation. 10.46 is the more precise number to use for magicka to spell damage. Also scathing mage is not something Id use on a sorc because of how important the health bonus is and how much harder it is to proc scathing on a sorc.
Oh my god, I totally forgot about the jump points... Stupid me.
Well I mean the skill coefficient really doesn't matter as long as our CHC x CHD is the same, because its still proportionate. Yes you don't need the penetration at all for the comparison, I just wanted to try to get a more or less accurate value.
Well you are right then. TBS has the maximum damage potential.! But then again what about without the Horn? What about without Minor Force? Its is good to run Beast Trap on a sorcerer instead of Inner Light, but you can't always get into close range with the boss (Twins...), and you may not always want to grab the healer's synergies because they are for tanks and Alkosh/Moondancer. We still have to take into account the fact that Major Force is only up 1/3rd of the time.
So without Minor Force and Major Force, but with all other group buffs we get:
For Julianos : (3559 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.67 x 0.712) = 11934.5
For TBS : (3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.853 x 0.649) = 11944.1
So TBS is still king! Guess I'll take it out of my bank then lol
@hedna123b14_ESO Thanks for the help
Hehe anytime:) but to be honest even if it showed a slight loss the health bonus is totally worth it.
Yeah well I mean we were talking differences of less than 1% so it really wasn't significant.
So next patch we'll all be sitting at around 20k health with TBS so one shots shouldn't be an issue unless you look for the big red AoE and run into those on purpose!
What bothers me is the fact that NBs are more effective with TBS because they have the most crit chance and crit damage. Templars also have more critical damage. DKs have all those cool fire sets, like Burning Spell Weave and Silks, and then there's the sorc who has nothing much. NBs are also more effective with Necropotence to reach those insane magicka numbers, and on top of that their Scathing uptime is much higher than it could ever be on a sorcerer. So in the end, what does a sorc really specialize in? What's a set that reflects their identity the best while matching the efficiency of TBS? This is the reason I was actually starting to even make this comparison, as I saw that some sets are just so much more powerful on other classes (yet their DPS is still below the max sorcerer DPS output from what I've seen so far). I don't understand it too well
Sorc if played well (and this is a big one) has the highest max damage potential of all classes. The reason other classes generally outperform sorcs is because so few people can play them well. Like a magblade has the easiest rotation (well not as easy as a templar one, but still pretty easy), so it's easy to do well on one.
Funny you say that, I never managed to pull as much DPS on my mage NB as on my mage sorcerer. I also find the rotation to be horribly annoying. Then again I've been playing solely sorc for pretty much a year and the rotation stuck. Yes I do agree that sorc is probably the hardest magicka class to master. I don't consider myself a master at all, but I do think that its my strongest character or at least the one I'm most comfortable with the beloved the stamina DK and stamina Sorc.
But that's not what I meant What I wanted to say is that it feels like sorcerers use the same item sets as all other magicka classes, but don't get the most out of them. TBS, Scathing and Necropotence are examples of what I mean. I never took the time to properly study and gear up more than 4 characters which is why I'll take NBs as an example:
TBS on NB: 10% more critical damage and 4% more critical chance (Merciless Resolve and Soul Harvest on front bar), thus really maximizing the potential damage (the effective spell power ) of the set.
Necro on NB: Pets only take 1 slot, reduce target's damage by 15% (dunno if it works on bosses or not) and are applied like simple DoT.
Scathing on NB: Twisting Path can proc the set on each tick. What more is there to say?
So what's a set that works best exclusively on sorcerers? Yeah that's a rough way to put it...
I wouldn't use necropotence, it's not worth it from my testing. Scathing IS good, but TBS may be out shining it as we gain more CP and put more into Elfborn. Sorcs have Ilambris and that's huge. Up to 3k single target and who knows how much AoE DPS...for a 2 piece set that's sick!
Ilambris. How on earth did I forget that?! There we go. BTW I heard that almost 4k single target wasn't too uncommon.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Thrasher91604 wrote: »
Well obviously thThrasher91604 wrote: »
The thief. Its more effective in most cases than the shadow.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Do you really think 17k health + Ebon isn't enough?..
You won't have 17k health and ebon. You will have 17k with Ebon if you don't wear TBS.
I have 17k without TBS and Ebon right now... 16997 to be exact. Wearing Julianos, Aether and Willpower (my vDSA set-up). And I'm not even at the CP cap (521 currently). Don't believe me? I'll post a picture if you want. So in the next patch you should be looking at 18446 health with CP561. Only undaunted and heavy armor passives for 1 piece worn. No Ebon or 1 piece health bonus.
Anyway @hedna123b14_ESO check out the updated stuff.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »alot more to the pve side than effective spell dmg, theif gain of 16%+ and shadow of 18%+ is huge, effective spell damage is not king in pve group play.
Effective spell power is meant to be the indicator of how strong your character is. Group buffs are taken into account, i will edit the OP and give new results, taking into account 1 horn every 30 seconds and all the feedback.
to an extent yes, but having more crit and harder hitting crit surpasses sp power at a point in pve
You don't understand what effective spell power is, do you?.. It is the function that encompasses your Spell Damage, your Maximum Magicka, your Spell Critical Chance, you Spell Critical Damage and your Spell Penetration. So its a function that has all the components that determine your damage output. Its a custom stat that represents your overall power with spell/magicka attacks and can be used to compare different build setups. The higher the number, the better your build is. So its a tool for comparing builds. I put the formula in the OP if you want to have fun calculating stuff for yourself
Hey I dont follow your values.
Example:
Julianos you state spell damage as 3559.
Your set up has Aether 3 jewelry and 1 weapon = 174 spell damage per jewelry piece, 129 from aether bonus and 348 x .5 from weapon enchant = 825 spell damage
5 Julianos = 300 spell damage
Staff = 1335 spell damage
Spell power cure = 258
(1335 + 300 + 825 + 258) x 1.25 = 3397 spell damage
Where are you getting the other spell damage from?
Next Your Crit damage is completely wrong.
50 base, 12 minor force 17 elfborn and 30 major force...except major force is not additive but multiplicative. This means that Critical damage on julianos is (50 + 12 + 17) x 1.3 = 102.7
Both of these changes should lower your overall Julianos potential to 13707 + Ilambris
For TBS applying the same logic would net you 13735 + Ilambris. So not only is TBS better, it is buffing Ilambrris unlike Julianos.
Class passives 6% with 3 sorcerer abilities slotted. So its (1335+299+825+258) x 1.31 = 3559.3
You sure about Horn being multiplicative? Well that certainly changes some stuff...
So Julianos without Minor Force = 67 x 1.3 = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12770
Mother's Sorrow without Minor Force = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12440
TBS without Minor Force = 85 x 1.3 = 110.5 so the Effective SP is 12675
With Minor Force respectively: 102.7; 102.7; 126.1
13646 for Julianos
13346 for Mother's Sorrow
13421 for TBS
Julianos is still on top... You are right about Ilambris though. But Julianos has a higher critical chance so that might very well outplay TBS critical damage benefit.
Hey good catch on the sorc passive. Im not getting the same values for TBS crit damage though.
My formula is:
(Base + Minor force + Elfborn + Shadow) x 1.3 = (.5 + .12 + .17 + .183) x 1.3 = 1.265
(Spell damage + Max Mag/10.46) x (1+ (Crit chance)(Crit Damage))
So for Julianos:
(3560 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.712)(1.027)) = (8081) x 1.731 = 13990
For TBS:
(3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.649)(1.265)) = (7688) x 1.821 = 13999
So TBS wins
Damn it I think I messed up with the spell damage values on TBS and Mother's Sorrow..!
What I really meant is: 13638 for TBS. Which is much much closer to Julianos and this does seem about right.
Well we got pretty much the same values for the Critical Damage on TBS = (0.5 + 0.12 + 0.167 + 0.183) x 1.3 = 1.261
You rounded up the Elfborn, thing is I don't know if its meant to be rounded up, what I do know is that it does suffer from jump points..! You also forgot to include the spell penetration in the formula. You round up too much So if I go without rounding up at all:
For Julianos: 8080 x 1.73122 = 13988.29; then for the penetration you go 13988.29 x 0.9776 = 13674.95
For TBS: I got 7688 x 1.81839 = 13979.77; then with penetration: 13979.77 x 0.9776 = 13666.62.
Another thing is that I used 10.5 instead of 10.46... So that probably explains why we got different values in the first place.
I guess it all depends on whether we are supposed to round up the Elfborn points or no. The 0.4 difference in the Critical Damage has affected the final results by quite a lot. I'll update the OP again later on in the day, when we will get to a conclusion.
But wait! Its not over, there's still Scathing Mage waiting to be analyzed
Elfborn works in jumpoints, so no 16.7...only 17. Asayre has a jump point list in his post and each 1 corresponds to a crit damage point. So 56 in elfborn is 17 crit damage points.
The penetration plays no role because its the same across the board for all of the sets, so it can be excluded from the equation. 10.46 is the more precise number to use for magicka to spell damage. Also scathing mage is not something Id use on a sorc because of how important the health bonus is and how much harder it is to proc scathing on a sorc.
Oh my god, I totally forgot about the jump points... Stupid me.
Well I mean the skill coefficient really doesn't matter as long as our CHC x CHD is the same, because its still proportionate. Yes you don't need the penetration at all for the comparison, I just wanted to try to get a more or less accurate value.
Well you are right then. TBS has the maximum damage potential.! But then again what about without the Horn? What about without Minor Force? Its is good to run Beast Trap on a sorcerer instead of Inner Light, but you can't always get into close range with the boss (Twins...), and you may not always want to grab the healer's synergies because they are for tanks and Alkosh/Moondancer. We still have to take into account the fact that Major Force is only up 1/3rd of the time.
So without Minor Force and Major Force, but with all other group buffs we get:
For Julianos : (3559 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.67 x 0.712) = 11934.5
For TBS : (3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.853 x 0.649) = 11944.1
So TBS is still king! Guess I'll take it out of my bank then lol
@hedna123b14_ESO Thanks for the help
Hehe anytime:) but to be honest even if it showed a slight loss the health bonus is totally worth it.
Yeah well I mean we were talking differences of less than 1% so it really wasn't significant.
So next patch we'll all be sitting at around 20k health with TBS so one shots shouldn't be an issue unless you look for the big red AoE and run into those on purpose!
What bothers me is the fact that NBs are more effective with TBS because they have the most crit chance and crit damage. Templars also have more critical damage. DKs have all those cool fire sets, like Burning Spell Weave and Silks, and then there's the sorc who has nothing much. NBs are also more effective with Necropotence to reach those insane magicka numbers, and on top of that their Scathing uptime is much higher than it could ever be on a sorcerer. So in the end, what does a sorc really specialize in? What's a set that reflects their identity the best while matching the efficiency of TBS? This is the reason I was actually starting to even make this comparison, as I saw that some sets are just so much more powerful on other classes (yet their DPS is still below the max sorcerer DPS output from what I've seen so far). I don't understand it too well
Sorc if played well (and this is a big one) has the highest max damage potential of all classes. The reason other classes generally outperform sorcs is because so few people can play them well. Like a magblade has the easiest rotation (well not as easy as a templar one, but still pretty easy), so it's easy to do well on one.
Funny you say that, I never managed to pull as much DPS on my mage NB as on my mage sorcerer. I also find the rotation to be horribly annoying. Then again I've been playing solely sorc for pretty much a year and the rotation stuck. Yes I do agree that sorc is probably the hardest magicka class to master. I don't consider myself a master at all, but I do think that its my strongest character or at least the one I'm most comfortable with the beloved the stamina DK and stamina Sorc.
But that's not what I meant What I wanted to say is that it feels like sorcerers use the same item sets as all other magicka classes, but don't get the most out of them. TBS, Scathing and Necropotence are examples of what I mean. I never took the time to properly study and gear up more than 4 characters which is why I'll take NBs as an example:
TBS on NB: 10% more critical damage and 4% more critical chance (Merciless Resolve and Soul Harvest on front bar), thus really maximizing the potential damage (the effective spell power ) of the set.
Necro on NB: Pets only take 1 slot, reduce target's damage by 15% (dunno if it works on bosses or not) and are applied like simple DoT.
Scathing on NB: Twisting Path can proc the set on each tick. What more is there to say?
So what's a set that works best exclusively on sorcerers? Yeah that's a rough way to put it...
I wouldn't use necropotence, it's not worth it from my testing. Scathing IS good, but TBS may be out shining it as we gain more CP and put more into Elfborn. Sorcs have Ilambris and that's huge. Up to 3k single target and who knows how much AoE DPS...for a 2 piece set that's sick!
Ilambris. How on earth did I forget that?! There we go. BTW I heard that almost 4k single target wasn't too uncommon.
I wouldnt be surprised...its an amazing set:)0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Thrasher91604 wrote: »
Well obviously thThrasher91604 wrote: »
The thief. Its more effective in most cases than the shadow.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Do you really think 17k health + Ebon isn't enough?..
You won't have 17k health and ebon. You will have 17k with Ebon if you don't wear TBS.
I have 17k without TBS and Ebon right now... 16997 to be exact. Wearing Julianos, Aether and Willpower (my vDSA set-up). And I'm not even at the CP cap (521 currently). Don't believe me? I'll post a picture if you want. So in the next patch you should be looking at 18446 health with CP561. Only undaunted and heavy armor passives for 1 piece worn. No Ebon or 1 piece health bonus.
Anyway @hedna123b14_ESO check out the updated stuff.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »alot more to the pve side than effective spell dmg, theif gain of 16%+ and shadow of 18%+ is huge, effective spell damage is not king in pve group play.
Effective spell power is meant to be the indicator of how strong your character is. Group buffs are taken into account, i will edit the OP and give new results, taking into account 1 horn every 30 seconds and all the feedback.
to an extent yes, but having more crit and harder hitting crit surpasses sp power at a point in pve
You don't understand what effective spell power is, do you?.. It is the function that encompasses your Spell Damage, your Maximum Magicka, your Spell Critical Chance, you Spell Critical Damage and your Spell Penetration. So its a function that has all the components that determine your damage output. Its a custom stat that represents your overall power with spell/magicka attacks and can be used to compare different build setups. The higher the number, the better your build is. So its a tool for comparing builds. I put the formula in the OP if you want to have fun calculating stuff for yourself
Hey I dont follow your values.
Example:
Julianos you state spell damage as 3559.
Your set up has Aether 3 jewelry and 1 weapon = 174 spell damage per jewelry piece, 129 from aether bonus and 348 x .5 from weapon enchant = 825 spell damage
5 Julianos = 300 spell damage
Staff = 1335 spell damage
Spell power cure = 258
(1335 + 300 + 825 + 258) x 1.25 = 3397 spell damage
Where are you getting the other spell damage from?
Next Your Crit damage is completely wrong.
50 base, 12 minor force 17 elfborn and 30 major force...except major force is not additive but multiplicative. This means that Critical damage on julianos is (50 + 12 + 17) x 1.3 = 102.7
Both of these changes should lower your overall Julianos potential to 13707 + Ilambris
For TBS applying the same logic would net you 13735 + Ilambris. So not only is TBS better, it is buffing Ilambrris unlike Julianos.
Class passives 6% with 3 sorcerer abilities slotted. So its (1335+299+825+258) x 1.31 = 3559.3
You sure about Horn being multiplicative? Well that certainly changes some stuff...
So Julianos without Minor Force = 67 x 1.3 = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12770
Mother's Sorrow without Minor Force = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12440
TBS without Minor Force = 85 x 1.3 = 110.5 so the Effective SP is 12675
With Minor Force respectively: 102.7; 102.7; 126.1
13646 for Julianos
13346 for Mother's Sorrow
13421 for TBS
Julianos is still on top... You are right about Ilambris though. But Julianos has a higher critical chance so that might very well outplay TBS critical damage benefit.
Hey good catch on the sorc passive. Im not getting the same values for TBS crit damage though.
My formula is:
(Base + Minor force + Elfborn + Shadow) x 1.3 = (.5 + .12 + .17 + .183) x 1.3 = 1.265
(Spell damage + Max Mag/10.46) x (1+ (Crit chance)(Crit Damage))
So for Julianos:
(3560 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.712)(1.027)) = (8081) x 1.731 = 13990
For TBS:
(3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.649)(1.265)) = (7688) x 1.821 = 13999
So TBS wins
Damn it I think I messed up with the spell damage values on TBS and Mother's Sorrow..!
What I really meant is: 13638 for TBS. Which is much much closer to Julianos and this does seem about right.
Well we got pretty much the same values for the Critical Damage on TBS = (0.5 + 0.12 + 0.167 + 0.183) x 1.3 = 1.261
You rounded up the Elfborn, thing is I don't know if its meant to be rounded up, what I do know is that it does suffer from jump points..! You also forgot to include the spell penetration in the formula. You round up too much So if I go without rounding up at all:
For Julianos: 8080 x 1.73122 = 13988.29; then for the penetration you go 13988.29 x 0.9776 = 13674.95
For TBS: I got 7688 x 1.81839 = 13979.77; then with penetration: 13979.77 x 0.9776 = 13666.62.
Another thing is that I used 10.5 instead of 10.46... So that probably explains why we got different values in the first place.
I guess it all depends on whether we are supposed to round up the Elfborn points or no. The 0.4 difference in the Critical Damage has affected the final results by quite a lot. I'll update the OP again later on in the day, when we will get to a conclusion.
But wait! Its not over, there's still Scathing Mage waiting to be analyzed
Elfborn works in jumpoints, so no 16.7...only 17. Asayre has a jump point list in his post and each 1 corresponds to a crit damage point. So 56 in elfborn is 17 crit damage points.
The penetration plays no role because its the same across the board for all of the sets, so it can be excluded from the equation. 10.46 is the more precise number to use for magicka to spell damage. Also scathing mage is not something Id use on a sorc because of how important the health bonus is and how much harder it is to proc scathing on a sorc.
Oh my god, I totally forgot about the jump points... Stupid me.
Well I mean the skill coefficient really doesn't matter as long as our CHC x CHD is the same, because its still proportionate. Yes you don't need the penetration at all for the comparison, I just wanted to try to get a more or less accurate value.
Well you are right then. TBS has the maximum damage potential.! But then again what about without the Horn? What about without Minor Force? Its is good to run Beast Trap on a sorcerer instead of Inner Light, but you can't always get into close range with the boss (Twins...), and you may not always want to grab the healer's synergies because they are for tanks and Alkosh/Moondancer. We still have to take into account the fact that Major Force is only up 1/3rd of the time.
So without Minor Force and Major Force, but with all other group buffs we get:
For Julianos : (3559 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.67 x 0.712) = 11934.5
For TBS : (3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.853 x 0.649) = 11944.1
So TBS is still king! Guess I'll take it out of my bank then lol
@hedna123b14_ESO Thanks for the help
Hehe anytime:) but to be honest even if it showed a slight loss the health bonus is totally worth it.
Yeah well I mean we were talking differences of less than 1% so it really wasn't significant.
So next patch we'll all be sitting at around 20k health with TBS so one shots shouldn't be an issue unless you look for the big red AoE and run into those on purpose!
What bothers me is the fact that NBs are more effective with TBS because they have the most crit chance and crit damage. Templars also have more critical damage. DKs have all those cool fire sets, like Burning Spell Weave and Silks, and then there's the sorc who has nothing much. NBs are also more effective with Necropotence to reach those insane magicka numbers, and on top of that their Scathing uptime is much higher than it could ever be on a sorcerer. So in the end, what does a sorc really specialize in? What's a set that reflects their identity the best while matching the efficiency of TBS? This is the reason I was actually starting to even make this comparison, as I saw that some sets are just so much more powerful on other classes (yet their DPS is still below the max sorcerer DPS output from what I've seen so far). I don't understand it too well
Sorc if played well (and this is a big one) has the highest max damage potential of all classes. The reason other classes generally outperform sorcs is because so few people can play them well. Like a magblade has the easiest rotation (well not as easy as a templar one, but still pretty easy), so it's easy to do well on one.
Funny you say that, I never managed to pull as much DPS on my mage NB as on my mage sorcerer. I also find the rotation to be horribly annoying. Then again I've been playing solely sorc for pretty much a year and the rotation stuck. Yes I do agree that sorc is probably the hardest magicka class to master. I don't consider myself a master at all, but I do think that its my strongest character or at least the one I'm most comfortable with the beloved the stamina DK and stamina Sorc.
But that's not what I meant What I wanted to say is that it feels like sorcerers use the same item sets as all other magicka classes, but don't get the most out of them. TBS, Scathing and Necropotence are examples of what I mean. I never took the time to properly study and gear up more than 4 characters which is why I'll take NBs as an example:
TBS on NB: 10% more critical damage and 4% more critical chance (Merciless Resolve and Soul Harvest on front bar), thus really maximizing the potential damage (the effective spell power ) of the set.
Necro on NB: Pets only take 1 slot, reduce target's damage by 15% (dunno if it works on bosses or not) and are applied like simple DoT.
Scathing on NB: Twisting Path can proc the set on each tick. What more is there to say?
So what's a set that works best exclusively on sorcerers? Yeah that's a rough way to put it...
I wouldn't use necropotence, it's not worth it from my testing. Scathing IS good, but TBS may be out shining it as we gain more CP and put more into Elfborn. Sorcs have Ilambris and that's huge. Up to 3k single target and who knows how much AoE DPS...for a 2 piece set that's sick!
Ilambris. How on earth did I forget that?! There we go. BTW I heard that almost 4k single target wasn't too uncommon.
I wouldnt be surprised...its an amazing set:)
P.S.: StamSorcs have StorrmFist:)0 -
Foxic✭✭✭✭✭Yeah ilambris gave me 15k dps on the flame atro pack in the beginning of vAA
Mechanically Challenged, PCNA competitive raid guild
Head of The Council of Raiders
First NA vAS Hardmode(#2 world)
World First Immortal Redeemer & Saintly Savior
All #1 Trial scores Clockwork City patch0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm 59% uptime of scathing mage is ~300 spell dmg? that's huge mistake in calculations. when You get that 516 spell dmg it's immediatly increased by major and sometimes minor sorcery and sorc passive so instead of 516 You should count it as ~675 and 59% of this is ~400.
Also if some dmg base value is increased by 675 spell dmg and it's for example shock dmg You get additional 9% to this value which increases dmg boost of scathing mage even more.
I'm not sure if you didn't read the post/click on the link or what, but the OP obviously meant pre spell damage buffs. Full raid buffs spell damage from Scathing with all the other spell damage buffs in the build are displayed in the OP's link.
Your lightning damage bonus comment has nothing to do with this discussion at all. That % is applied to the entirety of lightning damage and not just scathing mage, so it isn't important to this discussion...
I dont see any mentioning it's pre buffs in post if link mentioning about pre buffs would be nice do mention that in post. About percentage bonuses it have matter. For example skill hits for 1k and with percentage bonuses for 1,09k when You'll add that ~700 spell dmg from scathing mage base value will be increased to lets say 1,2k so with percentage passives it'll hit for 1,308 so instead 0,09k additional shock dmg You get additional 0,108 , so additional spell dmg affects percentage bonuses. Scathing mage makes base dmg value higher and percent from higher number is higher number itself. Tbh those differences are small but still exist.Edited by Juhasow on September 30, 2016 1:02PM0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm 59% uptime of scathing mage is ~300 spell dmg? that's huge mistake in calculations. when You get that 516 spell dmg it's immediatly increased by major and sometimes minor sorcery and sorc passive so instead of 516 You should count it as ~675 and 59% of this is ~400.
Also if some dmg base value is increased by 675 spell dmg and it's for example shock dmg You get additional 9% to this value which increases dmg boost of scathing mage even more.
I'm not sure if you didn't read the post/click on the link or what, but the OP obviously meant pre spell damage buffs. Full raid buffs spell damage from Scathing with all the other spell damage buffs in the build are displayed in the OP's link.
Your lightning damage bonus comment has nothing to do with this discussion at all. That % is applied to the entirety of lightning damage and not just scathing mage, so it isn't important to this discussion...
I dont see any mentioning it's pre buffs in post if link mentioning about pre buffs would be nice do mention that in post. About percentage bonuses it have matter. For example skill hits for 1k and with percentage bonuses for 1,09k when You'll add that ~700 spell dmg from scathing mage base value will be increased to lets say 1,2k so with percentage passives it'll hit for 1,308 so instead 0,09k additional shock dmg You get additional 0,108 , so additional spell dmg affects percentage bonuses. Scathing mage makes base dmg value higher and percent from higher number is higher number itself. Tbh those differences are small but still exist.
59% uptime on Scathing Mage is very common. Before buffs it is equal to around 300 spell damage. So Scathing Mage with 59% uptime with all the buffs has pretty much the same value as Julianos with all the buffs.
516 x 0.58.8 x 1.31 = 77.29
299 x 1.31 = 77.29
So no mistakes there.
I don't know how this is not enough in terms of describing all the buffs:
In combat stats: 50% uptime on Spell Damage Enchantment (174 Spell Damage), Minor Prophecy (3% Critical Hit Chance), Major Prophecy (10% Critical Hit Chance), Major Sorcerery (20% Spell Damage)
Raid buffs include: Spell Power Cure (258 Spell Damage), Aggressive Horn (10% increase to Magicka), Major Force (30% Critical Hit Damage), Minor Sorcerery (5% Spell Damage). Let's say we get Major Force every 30 seconds.
Raid buffs + Minor Force: sometimes a sorcerer might get Minor Force from Twilight Remedy or slotting Beast Trap on the back bar instead of Inner Light. I decided to include it, just for the sake of seeing the maximum potential of each build.
The percentage bonuses to a single element are not taken into account when calculating Effective Spell Power. Your CP allocation isn't taken into account either.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm 59% uptime of scathing mage is ~300 spell dmg? that's huge mistake in calculations. when You get that 516 spell dmg it's immediatly increased by major and sometimes minor sorcery and sorc passive so instead of 516 You should count it as ~675 and 59% of this is ~400.
Also if some dmg base value is increased by 675 spell dmg and it's for example shock dmg You get additional 9% to this value which increases dmg boost of scathing mage even more.
I'm not sure if you didn't read the post/click on the link or what, but the OP obviously meant pre spell damage buffs. Full raid buffs spell damage from Scathing with all the other spell damage buffs in the build are displayed in the OP's link.
Your lightning damage bonus comment has nothing to do with this discussion at all. That % is applied to the entirety of lightning damage and not just scathing mage, so it isn't important to this discussion...
I dont see any mentioning it's pre buffs in post if link mentioning about pre buffs would be nice do mention that in post. About percentage bonuses it have matter. For example skill hits for 1k and with percentage bonuses for 1,09k when You'll add that ~700 spell dmg from scathing mage base value will be increased to lets say 1,2k so with percentage passives it'll hit for 1,308 so instead 0,09k additional shock dmg You get additional 0,108 , so additional spell dmg affects percentage bonuses. Scathing mage makes base dmg value higher and percent from higher number is higher number itself. Tbh those differences are small but still exist.
Scathing mage is applied pre buffs to damage. Buffs to damage apply after the fact they are irrelevant when estimating scathin g mage's efficacy as they would benefit juli and TBS the same way...Edited by hedna123b14_ESO on October 1, 2016 4:55PM0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm 59% uptime of scathing mage is ~300 spell dmg? that's huge mistake in calculations. when You get that 516 spell dmg it's immediatly increased by major and sometimes minor sorcery and sorc passive so instead of 516 You should count it as ~675 and 59% of this is ~400.
Also if some dmg base value is increased by 675 spell dmg and it's for example shock dmg You get additional 9% to this value which increases dmg boost of scathing mage even more.
I'm not sure if you didn't read the post/click on the link or what, but the OP obviously meant pre spell damage buffs. Full raid buffs spell damage from Scathing with all the other spell damage buffs in the build are displayed in the OP's link.
Your lightning damage bonus comment has nothing to do with this discussion at all. That % is applied to the entirety of lightning damage and not just scathing mage, so it isn't important to this discussion...
I dont see any mentioning it's pre buffs in post if link mentioning about pre buffs would be nice do mention that in post. About percentage bonuses it have matter. For example skill hits for 1k and with percentage bonuses for 1,09k when You'll add that ~700 spell dmg from scathing mage base value will be increased to lets say 1,2k so with percentage passives it'll hit for 1,308 so instead 0,09k additional shock dmg You get additional 0,108 , so additional spell dmg affects percentage bonuses. Scathing mage makes base dmg value higher and percent from higher number is higher number itself. Tbh those differences are small but still exist.
59% uptime on Scathing Mage is very common. Before buffs it is equal to around 300 spell damage. So Scathing Mage with 59% uptime with all the buffs has pretty much the same value as Julianos with all the buffs.
516 x 0.58.8 x 1.31 = 77.29
299 x 1.31 = 77.29
So no mistakes there.
I don't know how this is not enough in terms of describing all the buffs:
In combat stats: 50% uptime on Spell Damage Enchantment (174 Spell Damage), Minor Prophecy (3% Critical Hit Chance), Major Prophecy (10% Critical Hit Chance), Major Sorcerery (20% Spell Damage)
Raid buffs include: Spell Power Cure (258 Spell Damage), Aggressive Horn (10% increase to Magicka), Major Force (30% Critical Hit Damage), Minor Sorcerery (5% Spell Damage). Let's say we get Major Force every 30 seconds.
Raid buffs + Minor Force: sometimes a sorcerer might get Minor Force from Twilight Remedy or slotting Beast Trap on the back bar instead of Inner Light. I decided to include it, just for the sake of seeing the maximum potential of each build.
The percentage bonuses to a single element are not taken into account when calculating Effective Spell Power. Your CP allocation isn't taken into account either.
I think you did a great job describing all buffs. And while percentage bonus to a single element is definitely not included in the calculations CP is (elfborn remember)0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm 59% uptime of scathing mage is ~300 spell dmg? that's huge mistake in calculations. when You get that 516 spell dmg it's immediatly increased by major and sometimes minor sorcery and sorc passive so instead of 516 You should count it as ~675 and 59% of this is ~400.
Also if some dmg base value is increased by 675 spell dmg and it's for example shock dmg You get additional 9% to this value which increases dmg boost of scathing mage even more.
I'm not sure if you didn't read the post/click on the link or what, but the OP obviously meant pre spell damage buffs. Full raid buffs spell damage from Scathing with all the other spell damage buffs in the build are displayed in the OP's link.
Your lightning damage bonus comment has nothing to do with this discussion at all. That % is applied to the entirety of lightning damage and not just scathing mage, so it isn't important to this discussion...
I dont see any mentioning it's pre buffs in post if link mentioning about pre buffs would be nice do mention that in post. About percentage bonuses it have matter. For example skill hits for 1k and with percentage bonuses for 1,09k when You'll add that ~700 spell dmg from scathing mage base value will be increased to lets say 1,2k so with percentage passives it'll hit for 1,308 so instead 0,09k additional shock dmg You get additional 0,108 , so additional spell dmg affects percentage bonuses. Scathing mage makes base dmg value higher and percent from higher number is higher number itself. Tbh those differences are small but still exist.
59% uptime on Scathing Mage is very common. Before buffs it is equal to around 300 spell damage. So Scathing Mage with 59% uptime with all the buffs has pretty much the same value as Julianos with all the buffs.
516 x 0.58.8 x 1.31 = 77.29
299 x 1.31 = 77.29
So no mistakes there.
I don't know how this is not enough in terms of describing all the buffs:
In combat stats: 50% uptime on Spell Damage Enchantment (174 Spell Damage), Minor Prophecy (3% Critical Hit Chance), Major Prophecy (10% Critical Hit Chance), Major Sorcerery (20% Spell Damage)
Raid buffs include: Spell Power Cure (258 Spell Damage), Aggressive Horn (10% increase to Magicka), Major Force (30% Critical Hit Damage), Minor Sorcerery (5% Spell Damage). Let's say we get Major Force every 30 seconds.
Raid buffs + Minor Force: sometimes a sorcerer might get Minor Force from Twilight Remedy or slotting Beast Trap on the back bar instead of Inner Light. I decided to include it, just for the sake of seeing the maximum potential of each build.
The percentage bonuses to a single element are not taken into account when calculating Effective Spell Power. Your CP allocation isn't taken into account either.
I think you did a great job describing all buffs. And while percentage bonus to a single element is definitely not included in the calculations CP is (elfborn remember)
Thanks! Yeah I meant Elemental Expert isn't taken into account, as Elfborn and Erosion both are @ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Attackopsn✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Thrasher91604 wrote: »
Well obviously thThrasher91604 wrote: »
The thief. Its more effective in most cases than the shadow.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Do you really think 17k health + Ebon isn't enough?..
You won't have 17k health and ebon. You will have 17k with Ebon if you don't wear TBS.
I have 17k without TBS and Ebon right now... 16997 to be exact. Wearing Julianos, Aether and Willpower (my vDSA set-up). And I'm not even at the CP cap (521 currently). Don't believe me? I'll post a picture if you want. So in the next patch you should be looking at 18446 health with CP561. Only undaunted and heavy armor passives for 1 piece worn. No Ebon or 1 piece health bonus.
Anyway @hedna123b14_ESO check out the updated stuff.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »alot more to the pve side than effective spell dmg, theif gain of 16%+ and shadow of 18%+ is huge, effective spell damage is not king in pve group play.
Effective spell power is meant to be the indicator of how strong your character is. Group buffs are taken into account, i will edit the OP and give new results, taking into account 1 horn every 30 seconds and all the feedback.
to an extent yes, but having more crit and harder hitting crit surpasses sp power at a point in pve
You don't understand what effective spell power is, do you?.. It is the function that encompasses your Spell Damage, your Maximum Magicka, your Spell Critical Chance, you Spell Critical Damage and your Spell Penetration. So its a function that has all the components that determine your damage output. Its a custom stat that represents your overall power with spell/magicka attacks and can be used to compare different build setups. The higher the number, the better your build is. So its a tool for comparing builds. I put the formula in the OP if you want to have fun calculating stuff for yourself
Hey I dont follow your values.
Example:
Julianos you state spell damage as 3559.
Your set up has Aether 3 jewelry and 1 weapon = 174 spell damage per jewelry piece, 129 from aether bonus and 348 x .5 from weapon enchant = 825 spell damage
5 Julianos = 300 spell damage
Staff = 1335 spell damage
Spell power cure = 258
(1335 + 300 + 825 + 258) x 1.25 = 3397 spell damage
Where are you getting the other spell damage from?
Next Your Crit damage is completely wrong.
50 base, 12 minor force 17 elfborn and 30 major force...except major force is not additive but multiplicative. This means that Critical damage on julianos is (50 + 12 + 17) x 1.3 = 102.7
Both of these changes should lower your overall Julianos potential to 13707 + Ilambris
For TBS applying the same logic would net you 13735 + Ilambris. So not only is TBS better, it is buffing Ilambrris unlike Julianos.
Class passives 6% with 3 sorcerer abilities slotted. So its (1335+299+825+258) x 1.31 = 3559.3
You sure about Horn being multiplicative? Well that certainly changes some stuff...
So Julianos without Minor Force = 67 x 1.3 = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12770
Mother's Sorrow without Minor Force = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12440
TBS without Minor Force = 85 x 1.3 = 110.5 so the Effective SP is 12675
With Minor Force respectively: 102.7; 102.7; 126.1
13646 for Julianos
13346 for Mother's Sorrow
13421 for TBS
Julianos is still on top... You are right about Ilambris though. But Julianos has a higher critical chance so that might very well outplay TBS critical damage benefit.
Hey good catch on the sorc passive. Im not getting the same values for TBS crit damage though.
My formula is:
(Base + Minor force + Elfborn + Shadow) x 1.3 = (.5 + .12 + .17 + .183) x 1.3 = 1.265
(Spell damage + Max Mag/10.46) x (1+ (Crit chance)(Crit Damage))
So for Julianos:
(3560 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.712)(1.027)) = (8081) x 1.731 = 13990
For TBS:
(3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.649)(1.265)) = (7688) x 1.821 = 13999
So TBS wins
Damn it I think I messed up with the spell damage values on TBS and Mother's Sorrow..!
What I really meant is: 13638 for TBS. Which is much much closer to Julianos and this does seem about right.
Well we got pretty much the same values for the Critical Damage on TBS = (0.5 + 0.12 + 0.167 + 0.183) x 1.3 = 1.261
You rounded up the Elfborn, thing is I don't know if its meant to be rounded up, what I do know is that it does suffer from jump points..! You also forgot to include the spell penetration in the formula. You round up too much So if I go without rounding up at all:
For Julianos: 8080 x 1.73122 = 13988.29; then for the penetration you go 13988.29 x 0.9776 = 13674.95
For TBS: I got 7688 x 1.81839 = 13979.77; then with penetration: 13979.77 x 0.9776 = 13666.62.
Another thing is that I used 10.5 instead of 10.46... So that probably explains why we got different values in the first place.
I guess it all depends on whether we are supposed to round up the Elfborn points or no. The 0.4 difference in the Critical Damage has affected the final results by quite a lot. I'll update the OP again later on in the day, when we will get to a conclusion.
But wait! Its not over, there's still Scathing Mage waiting to be analyzed
Elfborn works in jumpoints, so no 16.7...only 17. Asayre has a jump point list in his post and each 1 corresponds to a crit damage point. So 56 in elfborn is 17 crit damage points.
The penetration plays no role because its the same across the board for all of the sets, so it can be excluded from the equation. 10.46 is the more precise number to use for magicka to spell damage. Also scathing mage is not something Id use on a sorc because of how important the health bonus is and how much harder it is to proc scathing on a sorc.
Oh my god, I totally forgot about the jump points... Stupid me.
Well I mean the skill coefficient really doesn't matter as long as our CHC x CHD is the same, because its still proportionate. Yes you don't need the penetration at all for the comparison, I just wanted to try to get a more or less accurate value.
Well you are right then. TBS has the maximum damage potential.! But then again what about without the Horn? What about without Minor Force? Its is good to run Beast Trap on a sorcerer instead of Inner Light, but you can't always get into close range with the boss (Twins...), and you may not always want to grab the healer's synergies because they are for tanks and Alkosh/Moondancer. We still have to take into account the fact that Major Force is only up 1/3rd of the time.
So without Minor Force and Major Force, but with all other group buffs we get:
For Julianos : (3559 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.67 x 0.712) = 11934.5
For TBS : (3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.853 x 0.649) = 11944.1
So TBS is still king! Guess I'll take it out of my bank then lol
@hedna123b14_ESO Thanks for the help
In the harder hm trials you just simply won't be able to use trap, and in some situations it defeats the purpose of being ranged if you are going in close (stacking aoes on the other melees).ign: ATTACKO
PS4 NA
First NA Completion of VMoL Hard Mode0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Attackopsn wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Thrasher91604 wrote: »
Well obviously thThrasher91604 wrote: »
The thief. Its more effective in most cases than the shadow.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Do you really think 17k health + Ebon isn't enough?..
You won't have 17k health and ebon. You will have 17k with Ebon if you don't wear TBS.
I have 17k without TBS and Ebon right now... 16997 to be exact. Wearing Julianos, Aether and Willpower (my vDSA set-up). And I'm not even at the CP cap (521 currently). Don't believe me? I'll post a picture if you want. So in the next patch you should be looking at 18446 health with CP561. Only undaunted and heavy armor passives for 1 piece worn. No Ebon or 1 piece health bonus.
Anyway @hedna123b14_ESO check out the updated stuff.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »alot more to the pve side than effective spell dmg, theif gain of 16%+ and shadow of 18%+ is huge, effective spell damage is not king in pve group play.
Effective spell power is meant to be the indicator of how strong your character is. Group buffs are taken into account, i will edit the OP and give new results, taking into account 1 horn every 30 seconds and all the feedback.
to an extent yes, but having more crit and harder hitting crit surpasses sp power at a point in pve
You don't understand what effective spell power is, do you?.. It is the function that encompasses your Spell Damage, your Maximum Magicka, your Spell Critical Chance, you Spell Critical Damage and your Spell Penetration. So its a function that has all the components that determine your damage output. Its a custom stat that represents your overall power with spell/magicka attacks and can be used to compare different build setups. The higher the number, the better your build is. So its a tool for comparing builds. I put the formula in the OP if you want to have fun calculating stuff for yourself
Hey I dont follow your values.
Example:
Julianos you state spell damage as 3559.
Your set up has Aether 3 jewelry and 1 weapon = 174 spell damage per jewelry piece, 129 from aether bonus and 348 x .5 from weapon enchant = 825 spell damage
5 Julianos = 300 spell damage
Staff = 1335 spell damage
Spell power cure = 258
(1335 + 300 + 825 + 258) x 1.25 = 3397 spell damage
Where are you getting the other spell damage from?
Next Your Crit damage is completely wrong.
50 base, 12 minor force 17 elfborn and 30 major force...except major force is not additive but multiplicative. This means that Critical damage on julianos is (50 + 12 + 17) x 1.3 = 102.7
Both of these changes should lower your overall Julianos potential to 13707 + Ilambris
For TBS applying the same logic would net you 13735 + Ilambris. So not only is TBS better, it is buffing Ilambrris unlike Julianos.
Class passives 6% with 3 sorcerer abilities slotted. So its (1335+299+825+258) x 1.31 = 3559.3
You sure about Horn being multiplicative? Well that certainly changes some stuff...
So Julianos without Minor Force = 67 x 1.3 = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12770
Mother's Sorrow without Minor Force = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12440
TBS without Minor Force = 85 x 1.3 = 110.5 so the Effective SP is 12675
With Minor Force respectively: 102.7; 102.7; 126.1
13646 for Julianos
13346 for Mother's Sorrow
13421 for TBS
Julianos is still on top... You are right about Ilambris though. But Julianos has a higher critical chance so that might very well outplay TBS critical damage benefit.
Hey good catch on the sorc passive. Im not getting the same values for TBS crit damage though.
My formula is:
(Base + Minor force + Elfborn + Shadow) x 1.3 = (.5 + .12 + .17 + .183) x 1.3 = 1.265
(Spell damage + Max Mag/10.46) x (1+ (Crit chance)(Crit Damage))
So for Julianos:
(3560 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.712)(1.027)) = (8081) x 1.731 = 13990
For TBS:
(3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.649)(1.265)) = (7688) x 1.821 = 13999
So TBS wins
Damn it I think I messed up with the spell damage values on TBS and Mother's Sorrow..!
What I really meant is: 13638 for TBS. Which is much much closer to Julianos and this does seem about right.
Well we got pretty much the same values for the Critical Damage on TBS = (0.5 + 0.12 + 0.167 + 0.183) x 1.3 = 1.261
You rounded up the Elfborn, thing is I don't know if its meant to be rounded up, what I do know is that it does suffer from jump points..! You also forgot to include the spell penetration in the formula. You round up too much So if I go without rounding up at all:
For Julianos: 8080 x 1.73122 = 13988.29; then for the penetration you go 13988.29 x 0.9776 = 13674.95
For TBS: I got 7688 x 1.81839 = 13979.77; then with penetration: 13979.77 x 0.9776 = 13666.62.
Another thing is that I used 10.5 instead of 10.46... So that probably explains why we got different values in the first place.
I guess it all depends on whether we are supposed to round up the Elfborn points or no. The 0.4 difference in the Critical Damage has affected the final results by quite a lot. I'll update the OP again later on in the day, when we will get to a conclusion.
But wait! Its not over, there's still Scathing Mage waiting to be analyzed
Elfborn works in jumpoints, so no 16.7...only 17. Asayre has a jump point list in his post and each 1 corresponds to a crit damage point. So 56 in elfborn is 17 crit damage points.
The penetration plays no role because its the same across the board for all of the sets, so it can be excluded from the equation. 10.46 is the more precise number to use for magicka to spell damage. Also scathing mage is not something Id use on a sorc because of how important the health bonus is and how much harder it is to proc scathing on a sorc.
Oh my god, I totally forgot about the jump points... Stupid me.
Well I mean the skill coefficient really doesn't matter as long as our CHC x CHD is the same, because its still proportionate. Yes you don't need the penetration at all for the comparison, I just wanted to try to get a more or less accurate value.
Well you are right then. TBS has the maximum damage potential.! But then again what about without the Horn? What about without Minor Force? Its is good to run Beast Trap on a sorcerer instead of Inner Light, but you can't always get into close range with the boss (Twins...), and you may not always want to grab the healer's synergies because they are for tanks and Alkosh/Moondancer. We still have to take into account the fact that Major Force is only up 1/3rd of the time.
So without Minor Force and Major Force, but with all other group buffs we get:
For Julianos : (3559 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.67 x 0.712) = 11934.5
For TBS : (3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.853 x 0.649) = 11944.1
So TBS is still king! Guess I'll take it out of my bank then lol
@hedna123b14_ESO Thanks for the help
In the harder hm trials you just simply won't be able to use trap, and in some situations it defeats the purpose of being ranged if you are going in close (stacking aoes on the other melees).
Besides HM rakhhat every single fight in the game can be full melee..0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Attackopsn wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Thrasher91604 wrote: »
Well obviously thThrasher91604 wrote: »
The thief. Its more effective in most cases than the shadow.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Do you really think 17k health + Ebon isn't enough?..
You won't have 17k health and ebon. You will have 17k with Ebon if you don't wear TBS.
I have 17k without TBS and Ebon right now... 16997 to be exact. Wearing Julianos, Aether and Willpower (my vDSA set-up). And I'm not even at the CP cap (521 currently). Don't believe me? I'll post a picture if you want. So in the next patch you should be looking at 18446 health with CP561. Only undaunted and heavy armor passives for 1 piece worn. No Ebon or 1 piece health bonus.
Anyway @hedna123b14_ESO check out the updated stuff.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »alot more to the pve side than effective spell dmg, theif gain of 16%+ and shadow of 18%+ is huge, effective spell damage is not king in pve group play.
Effective spell power is meant to be the indicator of how strong your character is. Group buffs are taken into account, i will edit the OP and give new results, taking into account 1 horn every 30 seconds and all the feedback.
to an extent yes, but having more crit and harder hitting crit surpasses sp power at a point in pve
You don't understand what effective spell power is, do you?.. It is the function that encompasses your Spell Damage, your Maximum Magicka, your Spell Critical Chance, you Spell Critical Damage and your Spell Penetration. So its a function that has all the components that determine your damage output. Its a custom stat that represents your overall power with spell/magicka attacks and can be used to compare different build setups. The higher the number, the better your build is. So its a tool for comparing builds. I put the formula in the OP if you want to have fun calculating stuff for yourself
Hey I dont follow your values.
Example:
Julianos you state spell damage as 3559.
Your set up has Aether 3 jewelry and 1 weapon = 174 spell damage per jewelry piece, 129 from aether bonus and 348 x .5 from weapon enchant = 825 spell damage
5 Julianos = 300 spell damage
Staff = 1335 spell damage
Spell power cure = 258
(1335 + 300 + 825 + 258) x 1.25 = 3397 spell damage
Where are you getting the other spell damage from?
Next Your Crit damage is completely wrong.
50 base, 12 minor force 17 elfborn and 30 major force...except major force is not additive but multiplicative. This means that Critical damage on julianos is (50 + 12 + 17) x 1.3 = 102.7
Both of these changes should lower your overall Julianos potential to 13707 + Ilambris
For TBS applying the same logic would net you 13735 + Ilambris. So not only is TBS better, it is buffing Ilambrris unlike Julianos.
Class passives 6% with 3 sorcerer abilities slotted. So its (1335+299+825+258) x 1.31 = 3559.3
You sure about Horn being multiplicative? Well that certainly changes some stuff...
So Julianos without Minor Force = 67 x 1.3 = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12770
Mother's Sorrow without Minor Force = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12440
TBS without Minor Force = 85 x 1.3 = 110.5 so the Effective SP is 12675
With Minor Force respectively: 102.7; 102.7; 126.1
13646 for Julianos
13346 for Mother's Sorrow
13421 for TBS
Julianos is still on top... You are right about Ilambris though. But Julianos has a higher critical chance so that might very well outplay TBS critical damage benefit.
Hey good catch on the sorc passive. Im not getting the same values for TBS crit damage though.
My formula is:
(Base + Minor force + Elfborn + Shadow) x 1.3 = (.5 + .12 + .17 + .183) x 1.3 = 1.265
(Spell damage + Max Mag/10.46) x (1+ (Crit chance)(Crit Damage))
So for Julianos:
(3560 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.712)(1.027)) = (8081) x 1.731 = 13990
For TBS:
(3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.649)(1.265)) = (7688) x 1.821 = 13999
So TBS wins
Damn it I think I messed up with the spell damage values on TBS and Mother's Sorrow..!
What I really meant is: 13638 for TBS. Which is much much closer to Julianos and this does seem about right.
Well we got pretty much the same values for the Critical Damage on TBS = (0.5 + 0.12 + 0.167 + 0.183) x 1.3 = 1.261
You rounded up the Elfborn, thing is I don't know if its meant to be rounded up, what I do know is that it does suffer from jump points..! You also forgot to include the spell penetration in the formula. You round up too much So if I go without rounding up at all:
For Julianos: 8080 x 1.73122 = 13988.29; then for the penetration you go 13988.29 x 0.9776 = 13674.95
For TBS: I got 7688 x 1.81839 = 13979.77; then with penetration: 13979.77 x 0.9776 = 13666.62.
Another thing is that I used 10.5 instead of 10.46... So that probably explains why we got different values in the first place.
I guess it all depends on whether we are supposed to round up the Elfborn points or no. The 0.4 difference in the Critical Damage has affected the final results by quite a lot. I'll update the OP again later on in the day, when we will get to a conclusion.
But wait! Its not over, there's still Scathing Mage waiting to be analyzed
Elfborn works in jumpoints, so no 16.7...only 17. Asayre has a jump point list in his post and each 1 corresponds to a crit damage point. So 56 in elfborn is 17 crit damage points.
The penetration plays no role because its the same across the board for all of the sets, so it can be excluded from the equation. 10.46 is the more precise number to use for magicka to spell damage. Also scathing mage is not something Id use on a sorc because of how important the health bonus is and how much harder it is to proc scathing on a sorc.
Oh my god, I totally forgot about the jump points... Stupid me.
Well I mean the skill coefficient really doesn't matter as long as our CHC x CHD is the same, because its still proportionate. Yes you don't need the penetration at all for the comparison, I just wanted to try to get a more or less accurate value.
Well you are right then. TBS has the maximum damage potential.! But then again what about without the Horn? What about without Minor Force? Its is good to run Beast Trap on a sorcerer instead of Inner Light, but you can't always get into close range with the boss (Twins...), and you may not always want to grab the healer's synergies because they are for tanks and Alkosh/Moondancer. We still have to take into account the fact that Major Force is only up 1/3rd of the time.
So without Minor Force and Major Force, but with all other group buffs we get:
For Julianos : (3559 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.67 x 0.712) = 11934.5
For TBS : (3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.853 x 0.649) = 11944.1
So TBS is still king! Guess I'll take it out of my bank then lol
@hedna123b14_ESO Thanks for the help
In the harder hm trials you just simply won't be able to use trap, and in some situations it defeats the purpose of being ranged if you are going in close (stacking aoes on the other melees).
Well, there is a second morph to the skill you know. When I know the tank won't be guarding me, I put Lightweight Trap on and make it part of my rotation. The Minor Force lasts for 8 seconds meaning its there for 1 full rotation. I cancel it with bar swaps. I lose about 0.5 seconds on my rotation (1 more light attack on the back bar) and 2k magicka on the execute. But I'm gaining Minor Force. So for 80% of the fight, I'm dealing a fair bit more damage and it most certainly outweighs the 0.5 seconds lost in each rotation, at least in my experience. Don't have any maths to prove it though.
For HM I'd certainly switch out the Trap for Hardened Ward though, I prefer to play it safe.
Also in most fights you don't have to be ranged, and putting down the trap ain't a problem.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Attackopsn wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Thrasher91604 wrote: »
Well obviously thThrasher91604 wrote: »
The thief. Its more effective in most cases than the shadow.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Do you really think 17k health + Ebon isn't enough?..
You won't have 17k health and ebon. You will have 17k with Ebon if you don't wear TBS.
I have 17k without TBS and Ebon right now... 16997 to be exact. Wearing Julianos, Aether and Willpower (my vDSA set-up). And I'm not even at the CP cap (521 currently). Don't believe me? I'll post a picture if you want. So in the next patch you should be looking at 18446 health with CP561. Only undaunted and heavy armor passives for 1 piece worn. No Ebon or 1 piece health bonus.
Anyway @hedna123b14_ESO check out the updated stuff.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »alot more to the pve side than effective spell dmg, theif gain of 16%+ and shadow of 18%+ is huge, effective spell damage is not king in pve group play.
Effective spell power is meant to be the indicator of how strong your character is. Group buffs are taken into account, i will edit the OP and give new results, taking into account 1 horn every 30 seconds and all the feedback.
to an extent yes, but having more crit and harder hitting crit surpasses sp power at a point in pve
You don't understand what effective spell power is, do you?.. It is the function that encompasses your Spell Damage, your Maximum Magicka, your Spell Critical Chance, you Spell Critical Damage and your Spell Penetration. So its a function that has all the components that determine your damage output. Its a custom stat that represents your overall power with spell/magicka attacks and can be used to compare different build setups. The higher the number, the better your build is. So its a tool for comparing builds. I put the formula in the OP if you want to have fun calculating stuff for yourself
Hey I dont follow your values.
Example:
Julianos you state spell damage as 3559.
Your set up has Aether 3 jewelry and 1 weapon = 174 spell damage per jewelry piece, 129 from aether bonus and 348 x .5 from weapon enchant = 825 spell damage
5 Julianos = 300 spell damage
Staff = 1335 spell damage
Spell power cure = 258
(1335 + 300 + 825 + 258) x 1.25 = 3397 spell damage
Where are you getting the other spell damage from?
Next Your Crit damage is completely wrong.
50 base, 12 minor force 17 elfborn and 30 major force...except major force is not additive but multiplicative. This means that Critical damage on julianos is (50 + 12 + 17) x 1.3 = 102.7
Both of these changes should lower your overall Julianos potential to 13707 + Ilambris
For TBS applying the same logic would net you 13735 + Ilambris. So not only is TBS better, it is buffing Ilambrris unlike Julianos.
Class passives 6% with 3 sorcerer abilities slotted. So its (1335+299+825+258) x 1.31 = 3559.3
You sure about Horn being multiplicative? Well that certainly changes some stuff...
So Julianos without Minor Force = 67 x 1.3 = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12770
Mother's Sorrow without Minor Force = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12440
TBS without Minor Force = 85 x 1.3 = 110.5 so the Effective SP is 12675
With Minor Force respectively: 102.7; 102.7; 126.1
13646 for Julianos
13346 for Mother's Sorrow
13421 for TBS
Julianos is still on top... You are right about Ilambris though. But Julianos has a higher critical chance so that might very well outplay TBS critical damage benefit.
Hey good catch on the sorc passive. Im not getting the same values for TBS crit damage though.
My formula is:
(Base + Minor force + Elfborn + Shadow) x 1.3 = (.5 + .12 + .17 + .183) x 1.3 = 1.265
(Spell damage + Max Mag/10.46) x (1+ (Crit chance)(Crit Damage))
So for Julianos:
(3560 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.712)(1.027)) = (8081) x 1.731 = 13990
For TBS:
(3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.649)(1.265)) = (7688) x 1.821 = 13999
So TBS wins
Damn it I think I messed up with the spell damage values on TBS and Mother's Sorrow..!
What I really meant is: 13638 for TBS. Which is much much closer to Julianos and this does seem about right.
Well we got pretty much the same values for the Critical Damage on TBS = (0.5 + 0.12 + 0.167 + 0.183) x 1.3 = 1.261
You rounded up the Elfborn, thing is I don't know if its meant to be rounded up, what I do know is that it does suffer from jump points..! You also forgot to include the spell penetration in the formula. You round up too much So if I go without rounding up at all:
For Julianos: 8080 x 1.73122 = 13988.29; then for the penetration you go 13988.29 x 0.9776 = 13674.95
For TBS: I got 7688 x 1.81839 = 13979.77; then with penetration: 13979.77 x 0.9776 = 13666.62.
Another thing is that I used 10.5 instead of 10.46... So that probably explains why we got different values in the first place.
I guess it all depends on whether we are supposed to round up the Elfborn points or no. The 0.4 difference in the Critical Damage has affected the final results by quite a lot. I'll update the OP again later on in the day, when we will get to a conclusion.
But wait! Its not over, there's still Scathing Mage waiting to be analyzed
Elfborn works in jumpoints, so no 16.7...only 17. Asayre has a jump point list in his post and each 1 corresponds to a crit damage point. So 56 in elfborn is 17 crit damage points.
The penetration plays no role because its the same across the board for all of the sets, so it can be excluded from the equation. 10.46 is the more precise number to use for magicka to spell damage. Also scathing mage is not something Id use on a sorc because of how important the health bonus is and how much harder it is to proc scathing on a sorc.
Oh my god, I totally forgot about the jump points... Stupid me.
Well I mean the skill coefficient really doesn't matter as long as our CHC x CHD is the same, because its still proportionate. Yes you don't need the penetration at all for the comparison, I just wanted to try to get a more or less accurate value.
Well you are right then. TBS has the maximum damage potential.! But then again what about without the Horn? What about without Minor Force? Its is good to run Beast Trap on a sorcerer instead of Inner Light, but you can't always get into close range with the boss (Twins...), and you may not always want to grab the healer's synergies because they are for tanks and Alkosh/Moondancer. We still have to take into account the fact that Major Force is only up 1/3rd of the time.
So without Minor Force and Major Force, but with all other group buffs we get:
For Julianos : (3559 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.67 x 0.712) = 11934.5
For TBS : (3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.853 x 0.649) = 11944.1
So TBS is still king! Guess I'll take it out of my bank then lol
@hedna123b14_ESO Thanks for the help
In the harder hm trials you just simply won't be able to use trap, and in some situations it defeats the purpose of being ranged if you are going in close (stacking aoes on the other melees).
Well, there is a second morph to the skill you know. When I know the tank won't be guarding me, I put Lightweight Trap on and make it part of my rotation. The Minor Force lasts for 8 seconds meaning its there for 1 full rotation. I cancel it with bar swaps. I lose about 0.5 seconds on my rotation (1 more light attack on the back bar) and 2k magicka on the execute. But I'm gaining Minor Force. So for 80% of the fight, I'm dealing a fair bit more damage and it most certainly outweighs the 0.5 seconds lost in each rotation, at least in my experience. Don't have any maths to prove it though.
For HM I'd certainly switch out the Trap for Hardened Ward though, I prefer to play it safe.
Also in most fights you don't have to be ranged, and putting down the trap ain't a problem.
I really cant think of any fight besides HM rakhhat where you cant all go melee.Edited by hedna123b14_ESO on October 1, 2016 11:06PM0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Attackopsn wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Thrasher91604 wrote: »
Well obviously thThrasher91604 wrote: »
The thief. Its more effective in most cases than the shadow.hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Do you really think 17k health + Ebon isn't enough?..
You won't have 17k health and ebon. You will have 17k with Ebon if you don't wear TBS.
I have 17k without TBS and Ebon right now... 16997 to be exact. Wearing Julianos, Aether and Willpower (my vDSA set-up). And I'm not even at the CP cap (521 currently). Don't believe me? I'll post a picture if you want. So in the next patch you should be looking at 18446 health with CP561. Only undaunted and heavy armor passives for 1 piece worn. No Ebon or 1 piece health bonus.
Anyway @hedna123b14_ESO check out the updated stuff.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »alot more to the pve side than effective spell dmg, theif gain of 16%+ and shadow of 18%+ is huge, effective spell damage is not king in pve group play.
Effective spell power is meant to be the indicator of how strong your character is. Group buffs are taken into account, i will edit the OP and give new results, taking into account 1 horn every 30 seconds and all the feedback.
to an extent yes, but having more crit and harder hitting crit surpasses sp power at a point in pve
You don't understand what effective spell power is, do you?.. It is the function that encompasses your Spell Damage, your Maximum Magicka, your Spell Critical Chance, you Spell Critical Damage and your Spell Penetration. So its a function that has all the components that determine your damage output. Its a custom stat that represents your overall power with spell/magicka attacks and can be used to compare different build setups. The higher the number, the better your build is. So its a tool for comparing builds. I put the formula in the OP if you want to have fun calculating stuff for yourself
Hey I dont follow your values.
Example:
Julianos you state spell damage as 3559.
Your set up has Aether 3 jewelry and 1 weapon = 174 spell damage per jewelry piece, 129 from aether bonus and 348 x .5 from weapon enchant = 825 spell damage
5 Julianos = 300 spell damage
Staff = 1335 spell damage
Spell power cure = 258
(1335 + 300 + 825 + 258) x 1.25 = 3397 spell damage
Where are you getting the other spell damage from?
Next Your Crit damage is completely wrong.
50 base, 12 minor force 17 elfborn and 30 major force...except major force is not additive but multiplicative. This means that Critical damage on julianos is (50 + 12 + 17) x 1.3 = 102.7
Both of these changes should lower your overall Julianos potential to 13707 + Ilambris
For TBS applying the same logic would net you 13735 + Ilambris. So not only is TBS better, it is buffing Ilambrris unlike Julianos.
Class passives 6% with 3 sorcerer abilities slotted. So its (1335+299+825+258) x 1.31 = 3559.3
You sure about Horn being multiplicative? Well that certainly changes some stuff...
So Julianos without Minor Force = 67 x 1.3 = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12770
Mother's Sorrow without Minor Force = 87.1 so the Effective SP is 12440
TBS without Minor Force = 85 x 1.3 = 110.5 so the Effective SP is 12675
With Minor Force respectively: 102.7; 102.7; 126.1
13646 for Julianos
13346 for Mother's Sorrow
13421 for TBS
Julianos is still on top... You are right about Ilambris though. But Julianos has a higher critical chance so that might very well outplay TBS critical damage benefit.
Hey good catch on the sorc passive. Im not getting the same values for TBS crit damage though.
My formula is:
(Base + Minor force + Elfborn + Shadow) x 1.3 = (.5 + .12 + .17 + .183) x 1.3 = 1.265
(Spell damage + Max Mag/10.46) x (1+ (Crit chance)(Crit Damage))
So for Julianos:
(3560 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.712)(1.027)) = (8081) x 1.731 = 13990
For TBS:
(3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + (.649)(1.265)) = (7688) x 1.821 = 13999
So TBS wins
Damn it I think I messed up with the spell damage values on TBS and Mother's Sorrow..!
What I really meant is: 13638 for TBS. Which is much much closer to Julianos and this does seem about right.
Well we got pretty much the same values for the Critical Damage on TBS = (0.5 + 0.12 + 0.167 + 0.183) x 1.3 = 1.261
You rounded up the Elfborn, thing is I don't know if its meant to be rounded up, what I do know is that it does suffer from jump points..! You also forgot to include the spell penetration in the formula. You round up too much So if I go without rounding up at all:
For Julianos: 8080 x 1.73122 = 13988.29; then for the penetration you go 13988.29 x 0.9776 = 13674.95
For TBS: I got 7688 x 1.81839 = 13979.77; then with penetration: 13979.77 x 0.9776 = 13666.62.
Another thing is that I used 10.5 instead of 10.46... So that probably explains why we got different values in the first place.
I guess it all depends on whether we are supposed to round up the Elfborn points or no. The 0.4 difference in the Critical Damage has affected the final results by quite a lot. I'll update the OP again later on in the day, when we will get to a conclusion.
But wait! Its not over, there's still Scathing Mage waiting to be analyzed
Elfborn works in jumpoints, so no 16.7...only 17. Asayre has a jump point list in his post and each 1 corresponds to a crit damage point. So 56 in elfborn is 17 crit damage points.
The penetration plays no role because its the same across the board for all of the sets, so it can be excluded from the equation. 10.46 is the more precise number to use for magicka to spell damage. Also scathing mage is not something Id use on a sorc because of how important the health bonus is and how much harder it is to proc scathing on a sorc.
Oh my god, I totally forgot about the jump points... Stupid me.
Well I mean the skill coefficient really doesn't matter as long as our CHC x CHD is the same, because its still proportionate. Yes you don't need the penetration at all for the comparison, I just wanted to try to get a more or less accurate value.
Well you are right then. TBS has the maximum damage potential.! But then again what about without the Horn? What about without Minor Force? Its is good to run Beast Trap on a sorcerer instead of Inner Light, but you can't always get into close range with the boss (Twins...), and you may not always want to grab the healer's synergies because they are for tanks and Alkosh/Moondancer. We still have to take into account the fact that Major Force is only up 1/3rd of the time.
So without Minor Force and Major Force, but with all other group buffs we get:
For Julianos : (3559 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.67 x 0.712) = 11934.5
For TBS : (3167 + 47290/10.46) x (1 + 0.853 x 0.649) = 11944.1
So TBS is still king! Guess I'll take it out of my bank then lol
@hedna123b14_ESO Thanks for the help
In the harder hm trials you just simply won't be able to use trap, and in some situations it defeats the purpose of being ranged if you are going in close (stacking aoes on the other melees).
Well, there is a second morph to the skill you know. When I know the tank won't be guarding me, I put Lightweight Trap on and make it part of my rotation. The Minor Force lasts for 8 seconds meaning its there for 1 full rotation. I cancel it with bar swaps. I lose about 0.5 seconds on my rotation (1 more light attack on the back bar) and 2k magicka on the execute. But I'm gaining Minor Force. So for 80% of the fight, I'm dealing a fair bit more damage and it most certainly outweighs the 0.5 seconds lost in each rotation, at least in my experience. Don't have any maths to prove it though.
For HM I'd certainly switch out the Trap for Hardened Ward though, I prefer to play it safe.
Also in most fights you don't have to be ranged, and putting down the trap ain't a problem.
I really cant think of any fight besides HM rakhhat where you cant all go melee.
Same here, was trying to think of one. The only thing I can consider as not being melee friendly, is when the Mage spawns her reflections and there's a big fat Void right underneath them. Otherwise, everything can be done with melee (aside from Rakhat obviously).@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
DPShiro✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is the best thread I've read in a long time, thank you for sharing and explaining.
I really wish we had more of these!~ Gryphon Heart ~
~ Immortal Redeemer ~
~ Grand Master Crafter ~
~ Master Angler ~
~ Former Emperor ~0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is the best thread I've read in a long time, thank you for sharing and explaining.
I really wish we had more of these!
Thanks! Luckily hedna was here to correct all my mistakes and guide me! I still want to take a look at stamina DPS, but the comparison would probably be between Leviathan and TBS. Basically its 100% crit chance vs 84% crit chance and a bit more crit damage. Although I do think TBS will win, its still very interesting to check the numbers out!
@DPShiro hehe just noticed we have a trials guild in common Edited by Izaki on October 2, 2016 9:54AM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »This is the best thread I've read in a long time, thank you for sharing and explaining.
I really wish we had more of these!
Thanks! Luckily hedna was here to correct all my mistakes and guide me! I still want to take a look at stamina DPS, but the comparison would probably be between Leviathan and TBS. Basically its 100% crit chance vs 84% crit chance and a bit more crit damage. Although I do think TBS will win, its still very interesting to check the numbers out!
Nothing in this update can beat TBS for voth magicka and stam unfortunately.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »This is the best thread I've read in a long time, thank you for sharing and explaining.
I really wish we had more of these!
Thanks! Luckily hedna was here to correct all my mistakes and guide me! I still want to take a look at stamina DPS, but the comparison would probably be between Leviathan and TBS. Basically its 100% crit chance vs 84% crit chance and a bit more crit damage. Although I do think TBS will win, its still very interesting to check the numbers out!
Nothing in this update can beat TBS for voth magicka and stam unfortunately.
I mean for stamina its not that unfortunate, there's still variety as someone has to run the buff sets. Magicka is getting a bit boring though...@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »This is the best thread I've read in a long time, thank you for sharing and explaining.
I really wish we had more of these!
Thanks! Luckily hedna was here to correct all my mistakes and guide me! I still want to take a look at stamina DPS, but the comparison would probably be between Leviathan and TBS. Basically its 100% crit chance vs 84% crit chance and a bit more crit damage. Although I do think TBS will win, its still very interesting to check the numbers out!
Nothing in this update can beat TBS for voth magicka and stam unfortunately.
I mean for stamina its not that unfortunate, there's still variety as someone has to run the buff sets. Magicka is getting a bit boring though...
Yeah but if its not a buff set its tbs0 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How do you go all mêlée on hard mode AA? That's like saying you can all stamina that fight..which is a wipe sentence.PC Master Race
1001CP
8 Flawless Toons, all Classes.
Master Angler
Dro-M'artha Destroyer (at last)
Tamriel Hero
Grand Overlord
Every Skyshard
Down With BOP!0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »How do you go all mêlée on hard mode AA? That's like saying you can all stamina that fight..which is a wipe sentence.
You stack everyone in the same spot and just have one person go range to pop mines. You can all stamina that fight and have healer pop mines, but the best way is to have 2 healers 2 tanks 7 stam dps and 1 magicka range that runs and pops mines.Edited by hedna123b14_ESO on October 2, 2016 1:55PM1 -
Thrasher91604✭✭✭✭✭How does llambris stack up against Molag Kena?
You loose a lot of spell (and weapon damage) that is not made up by the increase in majicka. Not to mention the 33% increase in damage proc.
Increase in dps on multiple grouped targets may make up the difference. But not if you are spamming overload or crystal frags or proc'ing mage's wrath.
Probably better for long draw out battles with a lot of trash mobs (i.e. trials).
Pledges, Pvp, not so much...0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thrasher91604 wrote: »How does llambris stack up against Molag Kena?
You loose a lot of spell (and weapon damage) that is not made up by the increase in majicka. Not to mention the 33% increase in damage proc.
Increase in dps on multiple grouped targets may make up the difference. But not if you are spamming overload or crystal frags or proc'ing mage's wrath.
Probably better for long draw out battles with a lot of trash mobs (i.e. trials).
Pledges, Pvp, not so much...
According to a thread I saw quite a while ago, so my memory may be faulty, Molag Kena was a DPS increase of around 2-3k. Thing is the proc is near impossible to sustain unless you're a NB. Speaking from a comfort point, the proc is just a pain to keep up. Sometimes while weaving it won't proc in intense situations etc.
About the stats, with the amount of max magicka you'll be rocking on this particular build, its more beneficial to stack it as high as possible. Look at it this way: In a raid you're getting a 43% increase in max magicka. So that 967 is really 1383 magicka aka 132 spell damage. The 129 spell damagee from the 1 piece Kena is in reality multiplied by 1.31 because of our buffs aka 169 spell damage. See the 40 spell damage difference between the 1 piece sets is minimal, but max magicka also gives you more sustain (larger ressource pool = more casts).
Now the 2 piece bonus... Like said before Kena is the opposite of sustained damage. For things like vMA where fights are short, Elegance + Kena is the way to go for sure. Apparently the boss' health and resists are being buffed in 1T so even in pledges sustain becomes somewhat important as a DPS who's always under 10% magicka = useless DPS. The Ilambris proc on a sorcerer should be up pretty much off cool down and doesn't require extra ressources. The DPS increase is pretty much the same for both sets, but Ilambris is just better in every other way. This is my take of things. Also Ilambris can apply status effects, can proc Disintegration/Implosion on multiple targets, benefits from Engulfing Flames (DK buff), so to me all of these benefits just outclass Kena in most group situations.
In PvP... I'd say Engine Guardian is the best for sorcerers but that's my opinion. That set is just amazing. Its hard to run out of ressources with it. For bursty sets, Infernal Guardian might be some pretty good burst damage when on the defensive now that it only procs on targets who are engaged with you. Grothdarr might be pretty sweet for turning off melee targets. Yeah, PvP is very different to PvE, and stuff thats amazing in one is usually trash in the other. That being said I've never found a situation where Kena isn't suicide.Edited by Izaki on October 4, 2016 9:15AM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Thrasher91604✭✭✭✭✭Huh? I get a dps increase of around 5k with Kena. It's great in pledges. It allows us to do a normal pledge much faster when I can keep it proced at near 100%.
In raids you are assuming a huge buff to majicka. Can't count on that.
In pvp it allows me to burst down enemies much faster.
In 1vx situations you may want a more defensive choice, but I play in groups mostly which is the intent of cyrodil pvp.
I do notice it not procing reliably in high lag situations with lots of enemies, but it just requires an extra weave then.Edited by Thrasher91604 on October 4, 2016 8:11PM0
