"It will always be items worse than what you can craft" topic

Lumbermill_Emperor

Valen_Byte wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

All of you that are saying "its not p2w" are missing the true point here.

The issue here is integrity. They said they would NEVER put ANY consumibles in the crown store that are better than crafted consumables. They said it on there FAQ, they said it in a live stream, and they have said it here on the forums.

Looks like they lied. Integrity, is on its way out. One person in this thread even said "that was 2 years ago, things change" Had to just smh at that one. On that logic, I married my wife 20 years ago so the promises I made are no longer valid. Im sure that would go over well with the wife.

Like I said this is not a p2w issue...its about integrity. Something that is beginning to seem very rare in game and in the real world.

Except this was not a promise. Even the title of this thread is not accurate. It was a statement that was true at the time it was made. Go back and read what someone so graciously found and posted. It does not say will always be like that just that it is like that at the moment.

And by the way this is not a marriage and in your marriage I doubt you signed a tos stating one can do whatever they want.
I am not sure how one can justify comparing their marriage to changes made by a video game developer.

Maybe everyone is referring to something else but so far the same post from the support section has been the only thing referenced. In which apparently people can't tell the difference between a promise/guarantee and a statement.
Them stating a fact nearly 2 years ago is not them promising that things will stay that way forever.

Integrity. You don't seem to understand that word. Look it up.

I don't have to say the word "promise" for my children to trust me. If I tell them that I will not do something one day, it doesn't change the next. Thats giving your word. Same thing.

I was here when they assured us that they would NEVER put any consumables in the crown store that are better than what you can craft. I heard it with my own ears. That is a promise, or giving a community your word. Same thing. They made that promise because the community was up in arms over the crown store potions. They assured us a million times that they would not do what they are doing right now.

good words
added to first post

nimander99

This is exactly why just about every post I've made for the last month has been against these Crown Store gambling boxes. And if you think this is going to be the worst part of them, think again, these boxes will ruin the game we've all come to love.

cpuScientist

Some_Guy wrote: »

ZOS hasn't commented on this post yet with an answer. Almost like they haven't seen it yet... Bet if I dropped an F-bomb or two they'd see it real quick.

Yep that's how it is lol

cpuScientist

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Can we get any kind of comments on this? This is usually the start of a very slippery slope.

Ihatenightblades

XP isnt something that benefits player vs player tho so idc

Plus new players with less then 300 CP need these to get to the competitive side of the game

I would hate this game if i was stuck in the 300-400 cp number for more than a month .

I got 590 CP so this doesn't really effect me

DRXHarbinger

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

@DRXHarbinger
you wrong because you never grind

its enough gold earned to allow you to buy ambrosia
and also its enough skillpoints for one build even with fighters guild skills

That's not the point I said. Power grind to lvl 50 and no you won't have FG 10. You'll be around 7/7.5, then you spend hours killing iirc 600 zombies in alikr. Been there 6 times. Also gold earned to buy ambrosia...that depends on your platform, for xp pots are 20k for 4. Perfect roe is 15. You arent buying that in game on a grind toon. Ambrosia frags are 20-25k.

After that you need to spend hours farming skyshards to level up alchemy at least. That's 39 just for that.

What we need in the crown store are more skill points. I've gotten them on all my Sorc and want all skills unlocked but can't. Joke.

Woeler

"K"

Lumbermill_Emperor

@DRXHarbinger

whatever? its more efficient anyway
2500 ambrosia cost
50 min duration
from 10 lvl grind you earning 3k gold per hour just selling junk and its rising because items cost more and more with level raised

also if grindspor is undead, sewers for example - its much more efficient for FG leveling too

i gatheres 380 shards after it, in like 3 days maximum
also not a problem and faster than with questing

one more + to GRIND

Reykice

MisterBastahrd wrote: »

Zenimax has been hostile to crafters for a while now. They've made motifs and style items ridiculously hard to require outside of the crown store materials, will now go 2 expansions without introducing a new crafted set, and are now chasing whales while spitting out a ton of potions and poisons in the process. There are maybe 5 crafted sets in the entire game that are worth a squat, and maybe one that is going to be useful once One Tamriel is released. That isn't even mentioning what they did to nirnhoned items... totally ridiculous and unfair.

Xp pots are not whale chasing as you only need so many before you hit the cp cap...

Alao xp scrolls are in every game.... other games have a buy this level toon instantly.

As long as no consumables like food/pots tjat are better than crafted ones are introduced, its fine i think.

altemriel

I would not say such a big issue in this!


It is not Pay to win (if ZOS would see some better weapons in crown store for example).

This only saves time and enables people to progress their character faster - which means nothing in terms of player compatibility to be competitive in PVP or PVE.

The things that determine it are: player experience, skills, gear, ability to play the game


So no issue here!!!

Lumbermill_Emperor

no issues
okay
your eyes guys still closed

altemriel

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

no issues
okay
your eyes guys still closed

what is your issue then?

It does not enable any player to be more competetive, it only saves the time for progress of the character -which means nothing in my opinion.


some people have more free time to play, some less. But even if someone has lot of time, that does not mean that he can play the game and be an emperor in PVP.

Bigevilpeter

Exp gain is not p2w. so they can make it better than carfted no problem.

If the potions/food or poison were better now that would be a problem

inflaburwb17_ESO

Doesn't pay to PROGRESS insinuate that your progress will be halted at a certain point, and unless you pay money you will be unable to progress further?

Bigevilpeter

Ive never used xp pots or scrolls and I have 4 characters at level 50 and 540 cp, never felt that my progress was halted in anyway.

inflaburwb17_ESO

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Ive never used xp pots or scrolls and I have 4 characters at level 50 and 540 cp, never felt that my progress was halted in anyway.

Exactly. This entire thread is confusing to me. Like complaining about people that have money to afford a fast car that will get them to the same place you are going, but just quicker.

aubrey.baconb16_ESO

As many have already said much more eloquently than I, pay to progress is NOT pay to win.

KingMagaw

Wrothgar for Maelstorm weapons is behind a pay wall, either buy the DLC or sub, or else you wont have the BestInSlot weapons.

Selling *** items in the gamble boxes will get them dirt revenue, everyone knows this. Down the line they will be buffed to include weapons, armors and trophy keys im sure, then more will complain on forums. I have no faith in Z0$ integrity because they have shown me to have none.

Juhasow

It's not game breaking but little sad. They cant fix simpliest bugs but they can add lot of new items into crown store and most of them for sick prices due to loot crates system.

schroed360

Cazzy wrote: »

Tbh whatever anyone's interpretation of "P2W" this simple matter is they have been making promises they can't keep and introducing new features that they said they'd never add.

To me It's less about this little scroll and more about what this means for the future of ESO.

It's clear to me that after Update 12 the game will be an entirely different game to the one they envisioned and created.

Actually it s already over since à long time the real version of teso died the day they annouce ESO: TU... Look at mess of motif tody compare to what it was before. ESO: OT will simply push the throttle further and when you ll think that it can t be worse they ll release the fourth réédition of ESO probably à free one.
TL DR DOOM!

FearlessOne_2014

MisterBastahrd wrote: »

Zenimax has been hostile to crafters for a while now. They've made motifs and style items ridiculously hard to require outside of the crown store materials, will now go 2 expansions without introducing a new crafted set, and are now chasing whales while spitting out a ton of potions and poisons in the process. There are maybe 5 crafted sets in the entire game that are worth a squat, and maybe one that is going to be useful once One Tamriel is released. That isn't even mentioning what they did to nirnhoned items... totally ridiculous and unfair.

Trust me ZOS has not been chasing whales. ZOS is actually trying to push the whales away. At least for the moment. You'll know when ZOS started to chase whales. When they started to put the maelstrom weapons and monster helm sets and what not. In the crown boxes. Till then ZOS is just providing a mild form of pay for convenience.

Lumbermill_Emperor

all this posts - just attempts to avoid the truth, really

DocFrost72

Soapboxes, get your soapboxes here. 15% chance to get a soapbox for 5 bucks.

Asardes

The discussion has clearly gone of the rails here:

1) XP modifiers that are sold for crowns are not P2W. You can level a char very fast even without grinding. In fact it's better that you don't grind, and level trough exploring and doing quests, as you will have much more skills to level/morph and passives to unlock in your skill lines doing that.

2) DLCs that cost crowns and give you potential access to some powerful items, but still require considerable player skill and time invested are not P2W. It's not like you go to Wrothgar or MoL and you will find VMSA weapons or Alkosh set pieces growing on trees or dropping from the trash mobs.

Things that would be indeed P2W:

1) Selling exclusive items that are stronger than what you can find in the game directly for crowns - ex. buying sharpened Sword of Awesomeness that adds 300 weapon damage and 5% chance to instantly kill players on hit.

2) Selling skill lines exclusive to crown store would be P2W - ex. lich skill line that adds 5K to all your stats and resistances. You can buy vampire or werewolf skill line, but they are in the game and can be acquired trough world/player interaction, they also come with certain disadvantages, like being hit hard by fighters guild skills.

I've had an account since beta, 2.5 years ago, I made my character during a welcome back weekend in April last year, but only started playing since I bought the game almost a year ago. I have 4 veteran characters, 2 of which are mature builds and I'm training the 3rd. I have tons of dropped sets, including most monster sets in full divines. I have 665 CP. Without any grind. Just normal gameplay. I never bought other items than IC and SotH from the crown store. I would never buy consumables, even XP scrolls. I prefer to roll my alts trough normal gameplay because I need to mature the build and learn to actually play it.

Flynch

It's not pay2win but it is a slap in the face of those who craft pots etc. Hopefully ZOS can realise that this will harm the players more than it'll inflate their wallets.

edit: and i'm normally pro-ZOS on a lot of things.

Lumbermill_Emperor

who is normally pro-zos will likely become against
if this things remain unchanged till live

Cherryblossom

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
forgive me but im mad now
when i saw you adding this scrolls to update12...
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/26604



dam ZOS...




EXAMPLE
right now im getting 993 exp with eso+ and ambrosia
by cp300 template for cp160 zombie
from cp300 to cp400 i need 30 566 777 exp
so i need to kill 30 782 zombies
for example i can kill 1000 zombies per hour
its ~30.7 hours
if you grinding 3 hours per day its 11 days

with eso+ and grand scroll
im getting 1614 per mob
its 18 938 zombies from cp300 to 400
18.9 hours
7 days

7 days < 11 days
PAY TO PROGRESS CONFIRMED


I was here when they assured us that they would NEVER put any consumables in the crown store that are better than what you can craft. I heard it with my own ears. That is a promise, or giving a community your word. Same thing. They made that promise because the community was up in arms over the crown store potions. They assured us a million times that they would not do what they are doing right now.
I think Horse training is BS too. We all had to "do the content" to level our horses. I'm surprised they don't sell crafting levels or Trait knowledge so you can avoid that pesky research and decon BS that so many of us endured. They'll sell motifs you don't need to collect. They might as well sell gold, right?
The point is when ZOS starts selling level 50 characters and then CP packs people will say "so what you can grind out CP with XP pots, scrolls, ..."

Sorry but you have forgotten about Training gear.

Work this into you equations.

so whilst helpful for those willing to spend the money, you can do better by crafting.

Crown Store is useless TBH nothing really worth having. They need to revamp the dress up ability in the game with real preview and mix and match items.

Asardes

And speaking of my alts, I have crafted 2 combos of sets, one for stamina, one for magicka, levels 14/24/34/44, all with training traits
- 5 Hunding's Rage (medium feet, medium hands, medium legs, heavy chest, light waist), 3/4 Night Mother's Gaze (medium head, medium shoulders, Bow/2W)
- 5 Armor of the Seducer (light feet, light hands, light waist, heavy chest, medium legs), 3/4 Torug's Pact (light head, light shoulders, resto/destro staff/swords)

I have leveled all my chars with them. I can even afford to beat CP160 normal enemies/elite and even delve/overland bosses in Cadwell's Gold using little more than heavy attacks and maybe some heals/buffs/wards on the back and the occasional ultimate and keeping just trash skills I want to level on the main bar. All still in my level 44 last tier of training gear

This is clearly C2W (craft to win). ZoS should crack down hard!

elvenmad

KingMagaw wrote: »

Wrothgar for Maelstorm weapons is behind a pay wall, either buy the DLC or sub, or else you wont have the BestInSlot weapons.

Selling *** items in the gamble boxes will get them dirt revenue, everyone knows this. Down the line they will be buffed to include weapons, armors and trophy keys im sure, then more will complain on forums. I have no faith in Z0$ integrity because they have shown me to have none.

I agree, although I am pretty sure we will not see weapons and armors in the crates, that would be 100% undisputable P2W what we will see I'm sure is what most other games have done with their so called 'cosmetic only' cash box's which is include special gear upgrade items in our case special gold tempers and crafting upgrades, this is coming 100% guaranteed its just a matter of time.

Anybody who as played Tera, Archeage.Neverwinter knows exactly how these cash shop RNG boxes which at first were clearlly stated would ONLY contain cosmetics eventually contain required game changing upgrade materials and boosts

Valen_Byte

@Cherryblossom 50% xp from pot, 70% xp from training gear, is 130%...that is not better than 150%