"It will always be items worse than what you can craft" topic

UltimaJoe777

STEVIL wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

.

STEVIL wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Ok so first off - these scrolls dont exist.
just looked in crown store - they aren't there.

So these are a maybe future someday thing without any context whatsoever.

Remember the cake? Re-usable for lotsa xp bonus. better than ambrosia. Started with a crown store.

two different holiday events planned - are these scrolls limited to them?

Will we see upgraded versions of recipes in U12 or when these scrolls come out that makes comparing these FUTURE add-ins to CURRENT alternatives rather silly, misguided and definitely overreactive?

Even if not, its Xp, not power. Convenience/speed is what the crown store is for.

@STEVIL These scrolls do exist. The Crown Crates can yield one of three scroll types:

50% for 30 minutes
100% for 30 minutes
150% for 30 minutes

They are specifically named as "Crown Crate" scrolls. All three scrolls had been found via datamining before the Crown Crate test began yesterday, and people testing Crown Crates are already reporting finding these scrolls. So, yes, they do exist (on the PTS) and unless people convince ZOS to change course (which is what this thread is about), they will soon exist on Live as well.

RE the bold - no they dont exist.

crown crates are in playtest.

So these are a maybe future someday thing

It's on the PTS as we speak. That means it's coming very soon, probably with One Tamriel..

Yes, maybe one day.

Look I know Crown Crates are widely disliked by many but denial is not becoming... Can't blame ya for wishing though lol

Its not denial. Its patience. People love to imaginr boogeymen.

I actually dont see much diff between 150% for 30m vs 50% for two hours the currebt crown xp scroll. Cant know how it compares until we see real prices.

But for comparison to live in game stuff, when we have so much coming in 12, i wont lose any sweat over this until i see if they give other in game options.

That's not patience. It's trying to deny the Crown Crates are coming sooner than you personally think they will.

Really?

I think they are coming with 12.

Since you somehow know what i personalky think, by alk means, support your claim.

If you think it's coming with 12 why make it sound like you think it's coming later? Good grief dude lol

I didnt. I kept pointing out its not here yet, so comparisons and outrage over such comparisons makes little sense. Its only valid if you have context. We dont know whether there are adfitiinal options for crafting xp.

But of course people tend to see what they wsntvto see.

Of course not everything put on PTS makes it as quickly as ecpected.

Crown Store stuff CAN be added at any time though, so even if it doesn't release with Update 12 it can happen shortly after.

Unsent.Soul

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

first call was craft bags

this is second call

Not the craft bag argument again. How in the world is that gonna make me better than you? The fact that you even brought up crafting bags being P2W shows you have run out of arguments.

Thank you, kind sir!

-tips hat

Tandor

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I'm guessing that the players who decry this as "Progress to Win" will include the same players who want account-wide achievements etc because they don't expect to have to level up alts as slowly as their main characters. They spend a lot of time moaning about how long everything takes and then when offered the chance to speed things up a bit they moan some more - mainly, I imagine, because they've got to pay for it. That aspect in turn leaves the door open for the "slippery slope" doomsayers to peddle their wares even tho' the game is no more P2W now than it ever was.

Quick change "Progress to Win" to "Pay to Progress" before they call you out on it as a way to try and strengthen their argument.

Indeed, that is what I meant to put. No point changing it now as we've moved on to putting a developer's statement on his future plans on the same level as a player's wedding vows. Ah well.

Egonieser

Faster getting to max level is not winning. Getting things from shop that can't otherwise be bought or obtained in the game AND are better is... In this game the level means very little, even more so with everyone being battle scaled when 1Tam hits live.

Prime example: I used to wreck max levelers in PvP with a lvl 38 battle scaled magplar. There wasn't a single point in time where I thought I was in any kind of a disadvantage, in fact I had even better stats than those of a max level thanks to battle scaling, same will be applicable with 1Tam where everyone will be battlescaled. People cry too much for no reason other than the principle, where in reality it hardly does any harm to the game's ecosystem, not in this game anyway.

Any and all gear is/will be accessible at any level and will scale up to max if the person is below max - so no - it's not P2W. If anything, power leveling will only put people at a disadvantage as they speed through levels and not do enough content or get enough experience with their characters resulting in less accumulated gold/items and much inferior skill with said character than those that took their time to go through everything thoroughly without speeding through it all.

And regards to alts of veteran players - that will hardly make a difference as they already have a character(s) that is max, has plenty of resources/crafts that are able to provide the best of the best for their baby alts and they will always have a massive edge over those who start a new, and no XP scrolls are going to change anything or have any impact in this regard.

When I started new alts, I purposely leveled slowly so I can spend the most amount of time learning the character, evaluate their strengths and weaknesses long before I get to max with them, I still have 10 XP scrolls I haven't ever used because of this reason, as it would do more harm than good. Once you are max level - people expect you to know your class and build very well and assume you have taken your time to do it. That will not be the case if a person has just sped through the levels and are just as experienced as a lvl 30 noob. If anything it's more of a curse than a blessing.

waterfairy

What are you gonna do if it stacks with ambrosia?

AzraelKrieg

I don't have the time to read through this all topic since it seems to be a whinge fest. Those "Major" and "Grand" XP scrolls are stuck behind the RNG of the Crown Crates. You want them, you pay out to get the crates to actually get a chance to get the damn item. On top of that, it's a short burst of XP. 30 minutes flies by when you're doing stuff so if you want to level extremely quickly you had better hope you're lucky with the crown crates so you can get a lot of them.

dem0n1k

Hilarious thread :thumbsup:

As a player who doesn't really have a problem with levelling at the regular pace, I do not care if ZOS implement this scroll on the live server. However it will be even more hilarious if ZOS see this thread & nerf the new scroll to be less than XP pots... that will make EVERYONE happy right!?

Lumbermill_Emperor

@Vigarr
they not
i tested

STEVIL

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

.

STEVIL wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Ok so first off - these scrolls dont exist.
just looked in crown store - they aren't there.

So these are a maybe future someday thing without any context whatsoever.

Remember the cake? Re-usable for lotsa xp bonus. better than ambrosia. Started with a crown store.

two different holiday events planned - are these scrolls limited to them?

Will we see upgraded versions of recipes in U12 or when these scrolls come out that makes comparing these FUTURE add-ins to CURRENT alternatives rather silly, misguided and definitely overreactive?

Even if not, its Xp, not power. Convenience/speed is what the crown store is for.

@STEVIL These scrolls do exist. The Crown Crates can yield one of three scroll types:

50% for 30 minutes
100% for 30 minutes
150% for 30 minutes

They are specifically named as "Crown Crate" scrolls. All three scrolls had been found via datamining before the Crown Crate test began yesterday, and people testing Crown Crates are already reporting finding these scrolls. So, yes, they do exist (on the PTS) and unless people convince ZOS to change course (which is what this thread is about), they will soon exist on Live as well.

RE the bold - no they dont exist.

crown crates are in playtest.

So these are a maybe future someday thing

It's on the PTS as we speak. That means it's coming very soon, probably with One Tamriel..

Yes, maybe one day.

Look I know Crown Crates are widely disliked by many but denial is not becoming... Can't blame ya for wishing though lol

Its not denial. Its patience. People love to imaginr boogeymen.

I actually dont see much diff between 150% for 30m vs 50% for two hours the currebt crown xp scroll. Cant know how it compares until we see real prices.

But for comparison to live in game stuff, when we have so much coming in 12, i wont lose any sweat over this until i see if they give other in game options.

That's not patience. It's trying to deny the Crown Crates are coming sooner than you personally think they will.

Really?

I think they are coming with 12.

Since you somehow know what i personalky think, by alk means, support your claim.

If you think it's coming with 12 why make it sound like you think it's coming later? Good grief dude lol

I didnt. I kept pointing out its not here yet, so comparisons and outrage over such comparisons makes little sense. Its only valid if you have context. We dont know whether there are adfitiinal options for crafting xp.

But of course people tend to see what they wsntvto see.

Of course not everything put on PTS makes it as quickly as ecpected.

Crown Store stuff CAN be added at any time though, so even if it doesn't release with Update 12 it can happen shortly after.

None of which contradicts maybe someday later or isn't real now.

Also in the maybe someday and isn't real now bag... triple strength ambrosia.

DRXHarbinger

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

@DocFrost72
ok right now im getting 993 exp with eso+ and ambrosia
by cp300 template for cp160 zombie

from cp300 to cp400 i need 30 566 777 exp

so i need to kill 30 782 zombies
for example i can kill 1000 zombies per hour
its ~30.7 hours

if you grinding 3 hours per day its 11 days


with eso+ and grand scroll
im getting 1614 per mob

its 18 938 zombies from cp300 to 400
18.9 hours

7 days


7 days < 11 days

PAY TO PROGRESS CONFIRMED

Expensive grind though. ..let them have it. That's like 11 scrolls to grind that out.

Lumbermill_Emperor

@DRXHarbinger
actually, its 38 scrolls

DRXHarbinger

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

@DRXHarbinger
actually, its 38 scrolls

Lol then if they pay for that then I'm happy for them. They'll be funding the future of the game for us, still suck as all they did was slay zombies and nothing else, beg everyone for crafting, have no gold or mats for anything, no skill points.

Grinding has its downsides. How many people went and ground sorcs and magblade and then whinged afterwards...I haven't got meteor or a skill point for trap beast and haven't levelled up FG and dual wield.. ..well the grind continues as you didn't play the game properly. CP level only shows so much.

38 scrolls lol.

alexkdd99

Valen_Byte wrote: »

All of you that are saying "its not p2w" are missing the true point here.

The issue here is integrity. They said they would NEVER put ANY consumibles in the crown store that are better than crafted consumables. They said it on there FAQ, they said it in a live stream, and they have said it here on the forums.

Looks like they lied. Integrity, is on its way out. One person in this thread even said "that was 2 years ago, things change" Had to just smh at that one. On that logic, I married my wife 20 years ago so the promises I made are no longer valid. Im sure that would go over well with the wife.

Like I said this is not a p2w issue...its about integrity. Something that is beginning to seem very rare in game and in the real world.

Except this was not a promise. Even the title of this thread is not accurate. It was a statement that was true at the time it was made. Go back and read what someone so graciously found and posted. It does not say will always be like that just that it is like that at the moment.

And by the way this is not a marriage and in your marriage I doubt you signed a tos stating one can do whatever they want.
I am not sure how one can justify comparing their marriage to changes made by a video game developer.

Maybe everyone is referring to something else but so far the same post from the support section has been the only thing referenced. In which apparently people can't tell the difference between a promise/guarantee and a statement.
Them stating a fact nearly 2 years ago is not them promising that things will stay that way forever.

Lumbermill_Emperor

@DRXHarbinger
you wrong because you never grind

its enough gold earned to allow you to buy ambrosia
and also its enough skillpoints for one build even with fighters guild skills

JKorr

I am a self-admitted care bear. I have been to the IC to use the crafting stations. I don't pvp. I don't have any characters built or geared for pvp.

That event held recently, the one to get the pet and skin from beating Molag Bal in the undersewers or whatever that area is called? The one some people ran dozens of times trying to get the skin? Remember how annoyed some players were, and how many runs they made without getting it?

Yeah. I went on the pts to see what the rngesus boxes had. Got hats, costumes I didn't want, many potions, drinks and food that I didn't want and won't use. And.....

I got that skin.

So I can look like I'm good enough to win it, instead of laying out the crowns to get a gamble box. Forget trying to win it in run after run, just buy a gamble box. If the rng gremlins like you, you can look like you beat down Molag Bal.

Lumbermill_Emperor

people who didnt saw first sign in craft bags, will not get the point of this topic also

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

people who didnt saw first sign in craft bags, will not get the point of this topic also

@Lumbermill_Emperor

I will ask you again since you didn't answer me the first time. How does a crafting bag give me and advantage over someone who does not have one?

Lumbermill_Emperor

i not said craft bags is an advantage

Lumbermill_Emperor

craft bags is PAY to comfort
grand scrolls is PAY to progress

each next step closer and closer to PAY to win

Valen_Byte

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

All of you that are saying "its not p2w" are missing the true point here.

The issue here is integrity. They said they would NEVER put ANY consumibles in the crown store that are better than crafted consumables. They said it on there FAQ, they said it in a live stream, and they have said it here on the forums.

Looks like they lied. Integrity, is on its way out. One person in this thread even said "that was 2 years ago, things change" Had to just smh at that one. On that logic, I married my wife 20 years ago so the promises I made are no longer valid. Im sure that would go over well with the wife.

Like I said this is not a p2w issue...its about integrity. Something that is beginning to seem very rare in game and in the real world.

Except this was not a promise. Even the title of this thread is not accurate. It was a statement that was true at the time it was made. Go back and read what someone so graciously found and posted. It does not say will always be like that just that it is like that at the moment.

And by the way this is not a marriage and in your marriage I doubt you signed a tos stating one can do whatever they want.
I am not sure how one can justify comparing their marriage to changes made by a video game developer.

Maybe everyone is referring to something else but so far the same post from the support section has been the only thing referenced. In which apparently people can't tell the difference between a promise/guarantee and a statement.
Them stating a fact nearly 2 years ago is not them promising that things will stay that way forever.

Integrity. You don't seem to understand that word. Look it up.

I don't have to say the word "promise" for my children to trust me. If I tell them that I will not do something one day, it doesn't change the next. Thats giving your word. Same thing.

I was here when they assured us that they would NEVER put any consumables in the crown store that are better than what you can craft. I heard it with my own ears. That is a promise, or giving a community your word. Same thing. They made that promise because the community was up in arms over the crown store potions. They assured us a million times that they would not do what they are doing right now.

OGLezard

i may be wrong but the xp potion you can craft is affected by the drink buff.......

AzraelKrieg

OGLezard wrote: »

i may be wrong but the xp potion you can craft is affected by the drink buff.......

You are correct. By default it is 30 minutes but because of the provisioning passives, it's time can be extended to be near the length of time of the standard crown scroll.

Kalante

Honestly there is nothing wrong with this. It is pretty typical of MMO's to put stuff like this to make progression faster. Doesn't mean you are gonna be the most unstoppable player in the game if you don't have any clue how to play, making the pay to win argument invalid . I am even surprised that this game lets you craft any xp boosts at all, other games don't let you do that.

kevlarto_ESO

Those are not needed to progress, it is an optional item you can use, if you have leveled 4 or 5 alts what not you have pretty much seen it all done it all, it is not like you have to buy these to progress big difference between need and have to.

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Those are not needed to progress, it is an optional item you can use, if you have leveled 4 or 5 alts what not you have pretty much seen it all done it all, it is not like you have to buy these to progress big difference between need abd have to.

nothing pay to win here people level at different rates any way. Just anther hyperbole post about nothing.

Essiaga

It's the principle. ZOS should make a change to either item to at least make them equal, if not making the in game item the better of the two.

I think Horse training is BS too. We all had to "do the content" to level our horses. I'm surprised they don't sell crafting levels or Trait knowledge so you can avoid that pesky research and decon BS that so many of us endured. They'll sell motifs you don't need to collect. They might as well sell gold, right?

The point is when ZOS starts selling level 50 characters and then CP packs people will say "so what you can grind out CP with XP pots, scrolls, ..."

It's pay to advance beyond what you actually achieved. Do the content.

Acrolas

My problem is that they're focusing more on number crunching than actual content.

If the experience is great, I don't care about the numbers.

If the experience sucks, then *** the numbers because it's like watching your favorite football team lose by 60 points and who in their right mind would sit through more of that ***?

I mean, come on. Increasing experience by a million percent doesn't make something suck less. Put some actual effort instead of hoping your fanboys are satisfied with Same Old Grind with Bigger Number.

Astanphaeus

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

TLDR: L2P2W

Astanphaeus wrote: »

This doesn't particularly concern me. I'm much more concerned by the having to buy the various DLCs (or have ESO+) in order to have access to all of the sets. DLCs should be attractive purchases because of their play, not their items.

You can always get them from a guild trader or your friendly neighborhood crafter. If you don't have a DLC you shouldn't be able to get to a crafting station and it's not like they are going to add 3 new crafting stations in Davon's Watch each time a DLC drops.

No you can't. Every single new set in Shadows of the Hist is BoP, meaning you have to do those dungeons. And with how they are making all dungeon and trial sets BoP, that means you need Thieves Guild for the Maw of Lorkahj sets. I honestly don't know if there are any sets attached to ICP and GT, but if there are, then you would need IC for that. And in order to get Maelstrom Weapons you need to buy Orsinium. And I'm willing to bet many of the future DLCs will have dungeons or trials where the sets are BoP.

I'm perfectly fine with having to buy things at a trader if you don't have the DLC, but the BoP is a problem for me.

UltimaJoe777

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

craft bags is PAY to comfort
grand scrolls is PAY to progress

each next step closer and closer to PAY to win

Pay to Comfort eh? Sounds like you're pulling things out of thin air there. That said, what makes you think Pay to Win is next? What if it's Pay to Customize, or Pay to Please?

Crafting bags are just a convenience, that's all.

Sigma957

@Lumbermill_Emperor I didnt mean crafted xp drinks but all the other food and drink you can craft, they are much better than the ones you can get from the crown store

Some_Guy

ZOS hasn't commented on this post yet with an answer. Almost like they haven't seen it yet... Bet if I dropped an F-bomb or two they'd see it real quick.