"It will always be items worse than what you can craft" topic

exeeter702

Just out of curiosity. Depending on how a player decides to gain his/her experience points, could one not atrue that a 2 hour 50 percent boost is more worthwhile than a 150 percent 30 min boost?

And likewise psijic's lasting only 30 mins, where the currently available scrolls last 2 hours.... is this not as well worth the amount of complaning?

AzraelKrieg

exeeter702 wrote: »

Just out of curiosity. Depending on how a player decides to gain his/her experience points, could one not atrue that a 2 hour 50 percent boost is more worthwhile than a 150 percent 30 min boost?

And likewise psijic's lasting only 30 mins, where the currently available scrolls last 2 hours.... is this not as well worth the amount of complaning?

Psijic Ambrosia by default is 30 minutes but as it is a drink, it can be extended from the provisioning passives. And yes, a player could gain more XP in 2 hours with 50% buff than someone using the 150% buff for 30 minutes. Depends on how efficient the player is at getting XP.

Sigma957

It's only XP not a food that going to increase your stats +20k health 15k stamina and magicka or a drink to buff your regen to over 1000 for each. And I didn't need any xp boost to progress to end game and be at cp cap.

AzraelKrieg

Sigma957 wrote: »

It's only XP not a food that going to increase your stats +20k health 15k stamina and magicka or a drink to buff your regen to over 1000 for each. And I didn't need any xp boost to progress to end game and be at cp cap.

This. It may get you to the level cap or the CP cap quickly but that's about it. What happens when you get there and you have over 160CP? Now you have to grind to make or find the gear you need. Well done Mr Quick-level, you've reached the optimal level to do content. Now go get the gear you need to be somewhat good at doing said content and learn your rotations since you didn't do that to this point.

alexkdd99

It is still driving me crazy how people keep saying they promised when they did not. The whole it's about integrity thing is invalid as again it was a statement.

If I said I don't have a car. That does not mean I am promising to never have a car.

A. STATEMENT IS. NOT A. PROMISE

I think some people just want attention and I will give him that he has garnished alot of it, although maybe not the kind of attention one might want.

Kyye

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

@UltimaJoe777
they not stacking
just checked again
its the same since exp scrolls appear in the crown store

Then let's tag someone and find out if that is intended or not. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

@UltimaJoe777
they not stacking
just checked again
its the same since exp scrolls appear in the crown store

Then let's tag someone and find out if that is intended or not. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober

When PA was introduced, i specifically remember them mentioning that they stack. So yeah let's get a good look into this

AzraelKrieg

Kyye wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

@UltimaJoe777
they not stacking
just checked again
its the same since exp scrolls appear in the crown store

Then let's tag someone and find out if that is intended or not. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

@UltimaJoe777
they not stacking
just checked again
its the same since exp scrolls appear in the crown store

Then let's tag someone and find out if that is intended or not. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober

When PA was introduced, i specifically remember them mentioning that they stack. So yeah let's get a good look into this

From my own testing Psijic Ambrosia and XP scrolls do not stack. The only time an XP buff has stacked with another XP buff was during the free cake thing back in April to celebrate 2 years of ESO when the cake buff stacked with Psijic Ambrosia/XP Scrolls. They stack with other sources of XP boosts such as the ESO+ bonus, grouping bonus and Training gear buff but not with each other.

jircris11

oooo you level quicker, that is not pay to win. leveling as is, is quick. Honestly you people need to learn the true meaning of P2W. if someone can pay to gain a VAST advantage over you that you in NO WAY can obtain in game then its P2W. aka costumes that adds states. a mount that adds stats, stat boosters that are permanent ect. I am tired of the self entitled morons who constantly complain about p2w when they in reality have NO knowledge of what it truly is. hell SWTOR is a good example of p2w. as a free member you are so limited you can not do anything against those who sub or who have bought the unlocks.

LadyNalcarya

Well, its quite disappointing. One can argue that this particular scroll isnt p2w, but it is a slippery slope.
Makes me hate those rng boxes even more. >.<

Unsent.Soul

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Well, its quite disappointing. One can argue that this particular scroll isnt p2w, but it is a slippery slope.
Makes me hate those rng boxes even more. >.<

Really though, why hate them? It's your choice to buy.

Wow

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Well, its quite disappointing. One can argue that this particular scroll isnt p2w, but it is a slippery slope.
Makes me hate those rng boxes even more. >.<

Really though, why hate them? It's your choice to buy.

Yup I agree. Same with Drug Dealers. Why hate them? They have children and families at home to feed too. It's their choice to buy drugs from the Drug Dealers.

Lumbermill_Emperor

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Well, its quite disappointing. One can argue that this particular scroll isnt p2w, but it is a slippery slope.
Makes me hate those rng boxes even more. >.<

completely agreed

LadyNalcarya

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Well, its quite disappointing. One can argue that this particular scroll isnt p2w, but it is a slippery slope.
Makes me hate those rng boxes even more. >.<

Really though, why hate them? It's your choice to buy.

1)Because its not a consumer-friendly way to sell stuff. And there's no laws to control such things (as opposed to casinos and other similar things) so the boxes can (and will) be rigged.
2)Because I would've bought many of the rng box items if they were offered for direct purchase but now I have to skip them.
3)Because after all those (absolutely justified) complaints about crown consumables in said boxes they might actually get buffed to be better than in-game consumables. Just like those 150% exp scrolls.
4)This kind of practice in games is often related to p2w stuff. For example, better enchants, upgrade materials and such, to make the boxes more desirable. Which, in turn, affects the game for everyone, not just for people who purchase the boxes.
5)If the boxes will be popular, there's a huge risk of ZOS focusing on those boxes instead of actual content. This already happened to many games.

MornaBaine

The Ambrosia has always been a bad joke though. Think about it. Why do you want to be able to make this stuff? So you can save time leveling alts usually. BUT once you have been lucky enough to collect all the recipe pages (and many players swear the drop rate of those has been nerfed) you then have to acquire Perfect Roe to MAKE the potion... which requires COUNTLESS HOURS of fishing because the drop rates of the Perfect Roe is INCREDIBLY RARE. So where is the time savings here? You could grind out levels with NO Ambrosia far faster than you can acquire the mats to MAKE IT. So what happens? People get frustrated and just buy the already much longer lasting XP scrolls from the crown store. The Ambrosia has ALWAYS been a cruel trick to make us think ZOS has kept its word on this. But at least some of us know better.

Asardes

The whole box content, and indeed most pets, mounts and costumes can be created and tested by a very small team, which much less effort than DLCs, which require creating the respective areas, animating & and voicing at least a few dozen NPCs, putting in place all the mechanics needed for dungeons, trials and arenas, as well as modeling a few hundred items that are at leas as complex as those sold in the crown store (every DLC comes with 2-3 styles and many dropped sets).

Thus It's unlikely ZoS will concentrate on the former, while ignoring the latter, and thus compromise the whole franchise. Unless you consider the DLCs to be P2W, like other people commenting here.

elvenmad

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Well, its quite disappointing. One can argue that this particular scroll isnt p2w, but it is a slippery slope.
Makes me hate those rng boxes even more. >.<

Really though, why hate them? It's your choice to buy.

1)Because its not a consumer-friendly way to sell stuff. And there's no laws to control such things (as opposed to casinos and other similar things) so the boxes can (and will) be rigged.
2)Because I would've bought many of the rng box items if they were offered for direct purchase but now I have to skip them.
3)Because after all those (absolutely justified) complaints about crown consumables in said boxes they might actually get buffed to be better than in-game consumables. Just like those 150% exp scrolls.
4)This kind of practice in games is often related to p2w stuff. For example, better enchants, upgrade materials and such, to make the boxes more desirable. Which, in turn, affects the game for everyone, not just for people who purchase the boxes.
5)If the boxes will be popular, there's a huge risk of ZOS focusing on those boxes instead of actual content. This already happened to many games.

Exactly this, OK, I understand some people defending these new box's and that they are currently not game changing and harmless, but this is how they have started out in every other game that has eventually had them containing P2W items.
Time will tell, but I honestly don't see why they have bothered with these box's at all unless they have serious future plans for them

I know ZoS claim put it over that they are doing US a favor by providing a way for us to get hold of discontinued mounts and costumes, but c'mon......there are far better ways of doing that both for us and for them.

I am waiting now for the special 7 day crate events, like other games have, usually over holiday periods were the box's drop special boosted upgrade materials and tempers.......its coming........its just a matter of time.

Lumbermill_Emperor

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

4)This kind of practice in games is often related to p2w stuff. For example, better enchants, upgrade materials and such, to make the boxes more desirable. Which, in turn, affects the game for everyone, not just for people who purchase the boxes.
5)If the boxes will be popular, there's a huge risk of ZOS focusing on those boxes instead of actual content. This already happened to many games.

bingo
this is the main reasons

Slylok

A bit more exp.. Oh noes!!!

Let me know when there is something in crates that actually matter. kthxby

Lumbermill_Emperor

a bit?

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

All of you that are saying "its not p2w" are missing the true point here.

The issue here is integrity. They said they would NEVER put ANY consumibles in the crown store that are better than crafted consumables. They said it on there FAQ, they said it in a live stream, and they have said it here on the forums.

Looks like they lied. Integrity, is on its way out. One person in this thread even said "that was 2 years ago, things change" Had to just smh at that one. On that logic, I married my wife 20 years ago so the promises I made are no longer valid. Im sure that would go over well with the wife.

Like I said this is not a p2w issue...its about integrity. Something that is beginning to seem very rare in game and in the real world.

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

@Cherryblossom
i know i can craft training gear and i use id for grinding ofc

still its not linked with the matter of my topic
and math from first post will remain the same with training gear on me or not

Your whole argument is crafters get shafted. He showed you cra. ters don't, I showed you they don't, and then you call "pay to progress"

Bro, stop trolling. Please.

Not that I agree with him. But for his point, it's not a troll. Training gear is separate to his issue since it's not a perk that would counter the scrolls, but is simply an addition to it. He is saying everyone has access to it, and stacks with other exp bonuses so referencing training gear is pointless.

Don't feed him. This conversation started as "p2w" then "p2progress" whatever the *** that is, to they broke some statement, not promise, a year + ago.

And training is relevant, heavily. Crafters get a more reliable, effective, and easier xP boost option over someone buying even these scrolls.

Don't sweep it under the rug either about the fact that there are going to be powerful consumables coming in Crown shop, 3 times more powerful than Psijic Ambrossia

More powerful yes but rare as hen's teeth. You could spend an entire 6 month's allotment of crowns and not get it. Or you could get it in one crate. The RNG on these powerful XP boosts is going to make it hard to get them and anyone that gets them should consider themselves lucky.

This. I opened 39 crates so far and haven't gotten a single one of these scrolls. The only XP scrolls I got were 2 normal 50% XP scrolls. If I had actually purchased these crowns I would have spent well over $100 just to try and get a grand scroll and still ended up with nothing. People are over reacting.

Valen_Byte

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

and the other 70% naive simpletons, they didnt understanding the real threat in this grand scrolls

I almost blacked out reading that.... can't form.....sentences.... ahhh.

Anywho, just because people disagree with you doesn't make them a naive simpleton. Who knows, years down the road you can stand up and say you were right, or you can sit there with your foot in your mouth and be wrong.

XP scroll is XP scroll. Doesn't make me a blind fanboy or simpleton, it makes me see it for what it is. A way to earn XP.

Go check out WoW with their heirlooms, you can do random dungeons and lvl from 1 to 60 in like half a day. So is WoW play to win? I mean you can spend 60 bucks and get an instant max character. So once again is WoW play to win?

Yes, and you have been fined 10,000xp/ap for saying "WoW" in an ESO thread. Sorry I don't make the rules.

Valen_Byte

Cazzy wrote: »

I guess one question that has no real answer is what "winning" is in an MMO.

Most people may say top quality gear, but without the skills to match it matters very little what you wear. So maybe skill points are winning. Or having the best potion/food.

It's not black and white, unfortunately

My wife and I were just talking about this.

We decided that we have won ESO. Game over.

We have both gotten Emperor on at least one toon and we have finished Cadwells Gold. Got the EMP costume and Cadwells awesome pot to wear on my head. So, game over. PVE...REKT. PVP...REKT.

nimander99

The problem is the whole P2W argument has been muddied. Lets just be honest here and say ZOS has once again skirted the lines extremely cleverly making us look a pack of fools. They continue to make their playerbase look foolish by getting us to argue about minutia when the real glaring issue is that they consistently say "we have no plans" and we the player's take it as a promise.

The line is consistently pushed further and further towards a more aggressive cash shop, "plans" "change" and we argue amongst ourselves about definitions of statements when the real issue is this game is very quickly being turned into a free 2 play game.

I bet after the holidays with the introduction of Housing we will get a announcement of how the entire base game of ESO is becoming F2P and how great that's going to be to bring new players into Nirn. Bet me and lose. Why do think we haven't seen any free weekends etc. in a very long time.

smacx250

MornaBaine wrote: »

The Ambrosia has always been a bad joke though. Think about it. Why do you want to be able to make this stuff? So you can save time leveling alts usually. BUT once you have been lucky enough to collect all the recipe pages (and many players swear the drop rate of those has been nerfed) you then have to acquire Perfect Roe to MAKE the potion... which requires COUNTLESS HOURS of fishing because the drop rates of the Perfect Roe is INCREDIBLY RARE. So where is the time savings here? You could grind out levels with NO Ambrosia far faster than you can acquire the mats to MAKE IT. So what happens? People get frustrated and just buy the already much longer lasting XP scrolls from the crown store. The Ambrosia has ALWAYS been a cruel trick to make us think ZOS has kept its word on this. But at least some of us know better.

Well, I think that the point of ambrosia and roe isn't necessarily that you use it yourself or that you are fishing with the sole purpose of getting roe - you sell it to others or use it to offset some of the XP lost while fishing. I suspect many that fish either sell the roe outright, or make ambrosia and sell that. I know I've done a lot of both (was lucky that it came out just after I started working on master angler), and I've never actually used an XP pot. So fishing gets a bit of a reward, and people can trade gold for XP gains. Gold is obtained by in-game activities, so in effect they may trade off some of what they may have done on existing characters to get more XP on new characters. If you do choose to use the drink yourself, it is more like a little bit of a consolation for having gained no XP while fishing. If you weren't solely fishing to get roe, it is an XP gain that you wouldn't have gotten had the roe not been there - you would have been fishing anyway. It actually seems like a pretty good system with the various gameplay options that it added. Of course it is tied into the crown scroll part of it (can't be so easy that no one will spend crowns) - yeah, that's just about them making IRL money!

bigted209

Can't say I truly understand what the outrage is all about. We've had XP pots and scrolls available for a long time...how are these different? Fun story...I created a magDK and got him to 50 the same day by using crafted training gear and XP scrolls. Did I pay to win, or do I just understand how to level an alt? Not really seeing the problem here...

Lumbermill_Emperor

bigted209 wrote: »

Can't say I truly understand what the outrage is all about. We've had XP pots and scrolls available for a long time...how are these different? Fun story...I created a magDK and got him to 50 the same day by using crafted training gear and XP scrolls. Did I pay to win, or do I just understand how to level an alt? Not really seeing the problem here...

@bigted209
the difference will be now
if you dont - read first post and pictures i posted lol to compare

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

If people wanna let an XP scroll ruin the game for them then that is their problem. Also from a post made by Gina in a PTS thread, they are looking at the numbers for the scrolls and they may add new recipes for crafters.

Lumbermill_Emperor

it takes 10 pages and 7k views for ZOS to react
they reacting in other topic

reposting here
the point of my topic still stand until they will not add equal recipe

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:

• We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

linoge63

PAY TO PROGRESS CONFIRMED

...and its about time

Unsent.Soul

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

it takes 10 pages and 7k views for ZOS to react
they reacting in other topic

reposting here
the point of my topic still stand until they will not add equal recipe

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:

• We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

It's on pts. They are being tested, they haven't hit live yet, and they will change numerical values based on feedback.

All you're doing is jumping the gun, tightening your tin foil hat.