Please Finish The Justice System

Daemons_Bane

LaiTash wrote: »

pvp vs pve players

I honestly don't know why people tend to label themselves "pvp-" or "pve-" player. How would occasional PvP stop you from enjoying the game?

Because some people identify themselves on what they like to do in this game.. And for the bold part, for me personally, it stops me from enjoying the game because the "pvp" in this game is pretty much the worst existing type of player vs player imo.. Secondly, if it at any point becomes forced, it gets much MUCH worse

Aldarenn

When they announced the Justice System, I was very excited and decided to grind up a Magicka Sorcerer who was going to be a part of the Guard faction and start a PvP guild in Wayrest with my brother. Several of my friends who ended up quitting after release were planning to come back as well. When they announced they didn't want to add the PvP aspect of this (honestly felt like they didn't know how to code it into the game lol) several of my friends quit again and never returned.

Cyrodiil is very imbalanced, can get very laggy, and cannot keep us PvPers going all the way to 3600 CP at the end of this game's life. Dueling is much more imbalanced and as much as I love dueling in other games, I will not partake in dueling where it comes in a matter of using broken sets > skill. IC was supposed to be the first DLC update, but was clearly disguised as PvE content.

The PvP aspect of the Justice system was supposed to be about forming groups and guilds of Guards vs Criminals; choosing between Sentinel and Legerdemain.

This has also ruined any RP I had left for ESO as nowadays all I see are WW and Vamp guilds and occasionally that one nudist group in Ebonheart on EP.

With One Tamriel, I believe they should reconsider the PvP aspect as there is NO excuse at this point. Possibly add Sanctuary cities to criminals and such, but treat this game as an Elder Scroll game and not a generic carebear MMO like it is now.

Edit: Spelling errors.

STEVIL

LaiTash wrote: »

I disagree that you need to have pvp elements in pve content

"pvp elements in pve content" isn't a problem. If it turns out to be a problem, it's comes from a bad design, not the idea itself. Avoiding potential problems by throwing out a good idea instead of improving mechanics is acceptable for low-cost korean mmo, not something that once supposed to become "a WoW killer".

pvp vs pve players

I honestly don't know why people tend to label themselves "pvp-" or "pve-" player. How would occasional PvP stop you from enjoying the game?

New justice quest themed dlc, daily worldwide justice quests including escort missions from mages guild, hunt down worldwide missions from fighters guild, "world boss" style missions rousting a couple new strongholds, new passive lawman skill line, etc. Nothing pvp needed to expand the existing content.

Yeah. And it will all be dull and repetitive (just like the current justice system) because scripted AI can never surprise you after you've done that daily once or maybe twice.

Could lotsa things be rewritten to make it happen this way or that way? Sure. But whether or not enough people want it or if it ends up just driving folks awsy from content is another issue entirely.

I guess most people who wanted this left the game shortly after closing PvE content because the same dailies over and over or dumb PvP in Cyrodiil paddok just for the sake of it is not their idea of fun. They came to see the organic Elder Scrolls MMO where having to deal with other players would open new possibilities, not bad single player Elder Scolls on one side and bad Elder Scrolls MOBA on another.

In reverse order...

I would agree that it's unlikely most people who wanted open world pvp vs everyone as their primary gameplay have stayed with eso. Those who enjoy interactions of the other types, not so much with the grouping and guiding available I would be.

Yeah I think any content will be considered dull or otherwise uninteresting to some people and interesting to others. I find pvp dull. I find achievement hunting dull. I find fishing dull. Others do not. If I were forced to fish I likely wouldn't play.

Occasional pvp or fishing or having to go quest just to axquire an achievement would be dull and unfun to me. It would not be a part of the game I would play. If it were forced on me by certain content, I would avoid that content. If it were mandatory, likely not be playing in the game. My game time is limited and valuable so why waste it on stuff I don't enjoy?

My comment you snipped was about calling content incomplete because it doesn't have pvp elements. I disagree with that characterization.

As for the unicorn that is pvp insertion into pve that doesnt create problems, I have yet to see it put in place where it did not cause problems for some. The discussion on these forums about pvp justice seem to not be able to thread the needle to satisfy the pvp flavor well enough for pvp players AND the pve flavor for pve players. Basically it tends to break down when the issue of opt-in opt-out comes into play. On this thread I believe you already have folks saying it won't work if players can opt-out and others that won't buy it without an opt out so, sorry, don't see the mythical won't cause problems if done right thing.

But, if you "complete" justice content by adding it to Cyrodiil allowing players to steal from their own faction, get bounty, be hunted... and thus leave pvp justice in pVP region... that might do it... tho I suspect some won't be happy if they don't get to use it to jump pve players.

But to answer your question more directly, since many sets, builds, skills, consumables such as potions and poisons have drastically differing utility in pve than in pvp. I find classifying pve and pvp differently to be useful on most every level.

If you look at many threads where folks ask about builds, setS, best ways etc etc etc one of the most often needed bits of info is pve or pvp.

I am baffled if you didn't know that when you asked why people use pve or pvp as descriptors.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

@STEVIL I believe LaiTash is from a generation, or group, of gamers that just "game". Their isn't an important distinction between PvE or PvP. I know exactly what's meant.

There was a time in MMOs the gear you'd use for PvE was the same as PvP, while there's always pure optimum, it was just a more seamless flow between both camps.

The gulf in games now at least seems way, way, wider.

STEVIL

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

@STEVIL I believe LaiTash is from a generation, or group, of gamers that just "game". Their isn't an important distinction between PvE or PvP. I know exactly what's meant.

There was a time in MMOs the gear you'd use for PvE was the same as PvP, while there's always pure optimum, it was just a more seamless flow between both camps.

The gulf in games now at least seems way, way, wider.

its certainly quite significant in ESO. the game and the forum involved here, so thats why i dont get how anyone informed couldnt recognize the significance of that difference.

STEVIL

Aldarenn wrote: »

When they announced the Justice System, I was very excited and decided to grind up a Magicka Sorcerer who was going to be a part of the Guard faction and start a PvP guild in Wayrest with my brother. Several of my friends who ended up quitting after release were planning to come back as well. When they announced they didn't want to add the PvP aspect of this (honestly felt like they didn't know how to code it into the game lol) several of my games quit again and never returned.

Cyrodiil is very inbalanced, can get very laggy, and cannot keep us PvPers going all the way to 3600 CP at the end of this game's life. Dueling is much more inbalanced and as much as I love dueling in other games, I will not partake in dueling where it comes in a matter of using broken sets > skill. IC was supposed to be the first DLC update, but was clearly disguised as PvE content.

The PvP aspect of the Justice system was supposed to be about forming groups and guilds of Guards vs Criminals; choosing between Sentinel and Legerdemain.

This has also ruined any RP I had left for ESO as nowadays all I see are WW and Vamp guilds and occasionally that one nudist group in Ebonheart on EP.

With One Tamriel, I believe they should reconsider the PvP aspect as there is NO excuse at this point. Possibly add Sanctuary cities to criminals and such, but treat this game as an Elder Scroll game and not a generic carebear MMO like it is now.

i am of the exact opposite opinion.

With OneT coming in, i see less reason to again dredge up the already considered, partly scoped and then rejected for cause PVP justice system.

Simply put, with the addition of dueling for PVP outside of cyrodil, a complaint many people reference, the oft repeated "we dont want to be stuck in cyrodil for all pvp" is now gone. So thats one of the compelling reasons to force pvp into injustice pve content gone as far as i can tell.

of course, "i dont like what they do so i should be allowed to attack them" 9They are killing and stealing oh my stars and garters the immersion agony is unbearable but dont do it for any other content) is still there right alongside "let us show them how much fun being attacked is" (PVP adds fun to PVE) but those to me dont carry much weight.

Also, just to be clear, if one doesn't think pvp or dueling is balanced enough to play or enjoy, i am flummoxed that the notion that PVP justice would be better in that regard is a thing.

Course i do recall one proposal which would let guards always be immune to thief until the guard attacked first so maybe that changes things from say duels where you both get to attack at the same time. i can see that change up on the duel "balance" being something some would prefer.

Marto

What concerns me is why your first instinct is to punish players that use the justice system by killing them with a PVP/Duel system.

There would be so many more interesting ways to do this. Calling for the help of a guard, debuffing and slowing down the player with a tar grenade, increasing their bounty, who knows.

I personally REALLY dislike the idea of PVP Justice, but if it was necessary, there would be better ways to implement it than just allowing you to kill players.

Those are the kind of systems implemented in other sandbox games like BDO and Archeage. Games that, in my opinion, reward the toxic griefers in the community far too much by creating mechanics specifically targeted at those kind of players.

Most of the arguments I've seen supporting PVP Justice boil down to "I want to make other people suffer", and while that is part of any competitive PVP game (Like Cyrodill) that behavior has no room in the general community.

LaiTash

STEVIL wrote: »

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

@STEVIL I believe LaiTash is from a generation, or group, of gamers that just "game". Their isn't an important distinction between PvE or PvP. I know exactly what's meant.

There was a time in MMOs the gear you'd use for PvE was the same as PvP, while there's always pure optimum, it was just a more seamless flow between both camps.

The gulf in games now at least seems way, way, wider.

its certainly quite significant in ESO. the game and the forum involved here, so thats why i dont get how anyone informed couldnt recognize the significance of that difference.

Why would one want to wear a pve gear to do justice stuff? One can do it all naked.

LaiTash

My khajiit won't let me sleep again, so

STEVIL wrote: »

I would agree that it's unlikely most people who wanted open world pvp vs everyone as their primary gameplay have stayed with eso. Those who enjoy interactions of the other types, not so much with the grouping and guiding available I would be.

It's not about "open world pvp" - the idea of unrestricted open world pvp seemed nice to UO creators before they had to deal with actual players. It's about adding *some* limited pvp elements to the game, otherwise bethesda could just make ES6 with cooperative features, no need to make a mmo.

Yeah I think any content will be considered dull or otherwise uninteresting to some people and interesting to others. I find pvp dull. I find achievement hunting dull. I find fishing dull. Others do not. If I were forced to fish I likely wouldn't play.

Somehow every mmo forces pvp-oriented folk to pve and they don't object. Those who did are now playing moba.

Occasional pvp or fishing or having to go quest just to axquire an achievement would be dull and unfun to me. It would not be a part of the game I would play.

So, if a massive multiplayer online rpg forces you to interact with other players without your consent here and there you consider it dull and not fun??!

If it were forced on me by certain content, I would avoid that content. If it were mandatory, likely not be playing in the game. My game time is limited and valuable so why waste it on stuff I don't enjoy?

Participation in justice system is by no means mandatory, so you should be fine.

My comment you snipped was about calling content incomplete because it doesn't have pvp elements. I disagree with that characterization.

It's incomplete because we've got half of what we were promised.

Knootewoot

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

This thread made me chuckle. I remember mastering 14 professions to unlock the ability to be a Jedi in a long distant game.

I remember facing off against bounty hunters tracking me to distant planets, way out in the wild and facing off. It was awesome. (We didn't usually fight in cities, wasn't smart to be a Jedi in a city unless you were rolling deep)

So I actually have done more PvE then I ever would want just to have a chance at amazing PvP moments.

I feel like when first announced the justice system would be similar to bounty hunting in SWG from the enforcement perspective. That didn't happen, a shame.

No question some of my best gaming memories are from that system from hunting as a bh to surviving as a Jedi. For that experience you had to do a stupid amount of PvE for PvP and I do it again in a heartbeat. Shame ESO never tapped at sandbox potential an elder scrolls game can embody.

I was a Ranger in that said game. Bounty hunters paid me loads of credits if I joined them to track down the Jedi. Made millions that way.

BenLocoDete

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

My post might make some of you facepalm, but can anyone explain to me what exactly this griefing would look like?

Let's take the most simple system: Upstanding, Disreputable, Notorious, Fugitive as they are now and a 5th "rank" where PvP comes into play. Doesn't matter if that player is free to kill for everyone or one must take a special quest to have this player assigned as target, where is the griefing potential?

The justice system is about being careful and not getting caught. I have gotten all my Justice achievements very long time ago and have never been running around even close to Fugitive. If you go on a rampage in the city, why not have the risk of being taken down by someone smarter than the *** guard AI?

Please explain the griefing to me.

There wouldn't be any if the system was done right. It basically comes down to the pvers who want to pretend pvp doesn't exist and don't want to see people fighting. And for Zos I think they are either afraid they can't do it right, or that it would take to much time and cost to much for something that a good chunk of players aren't interested in.

To me it is more the matter of demographic participation, they have the numbers, they have a business model to tend and explore, and hurting the majority of its player-base would unfortunately risk their business.

I've rambled enough in pro of the full justice system with many people I see in here, about what grief is, what an online experience can be and what the majority of the players doesn't want. In the end it is a matter of keeping the bunch happy and hurting the few. No matter, ESO is hardly the last game to ever exist, and if a new game expand on this subject and present a good implementation I doubt ZOS can't revisit their choices, it is business after all.

bellanca6561n

Marto wrote: »

What concerns me is why your first instinct is to punish players that use the justice system by killing them with a PVP/Duel system.

There would be so many more interesting ways to do this. Calling for the help of a guard, debuffing and slowing down the player with a tar grenade, increasing their bounty, who knows.

I personally REALLY dislike the idea of PVP Justice, but if it was necessary, there would be better ways to implement it than just allowing you to kill players.

Those are the kind of systems implemented in other sandbox games like BDO and Archeage. Games that, in my opinion, reward the toxic griefers in the community far too much by creating mechanics specifically targeted at those kind of players.

Most of the arguments I've seen supporting PVP Justice boil down to "I want to make other people suffer", and while that is part of any competitive PVP game (Like Cyrodill) that behavior has no room in the general community.

That response needn't be PvP. As I said, after reading many other posts, I feel my views on flagging and player justice may well be outdated. They were born back in the days when the terms, PvP and PvE, did not yet exist.

Good god, you used to be able to behead killers in UO and either deliver that head for bounty or collect...player heads. Uh...no.

You're not punishing a PvE player when you devise difficult dungeons or boss monsters. Nor are you punishing their party when they wipe. You punish them if the dungeons and all of its monsters are too easy. They did all this work to face a challenge and you offered them none.

The player who goes for easy civilian kills is not engaged in a computer game really. Yes, if they can kill with impunity with guards around they have developed skills. But it's a CP 531 player fighting a level 5 scrib.

So what? It's their time. Their money.

But a virtual world has to allow you to feel you're actually in it. At least to some degree. Last night my level 34 character logs on in Davon's Watch bank. The teller's assistant lies dead on the floor. My character leaves the bank and she finds this just outside.

There are guards all around there. She walks a few feet....

As she views this she hears that sound of someone choking - fighting for air through their own blood and body fluids. Enough. You get it.

What sort of game world is this? Somebody in zone chat calls it Aleppo Online....as a joke. Folks say all sorts of things in zone chat though.

Just let me do something. Don't have to kill them. If I wanted to kill players I'd have a much better time in Cyrodiil. Require a radius from players. Drop the death rattle and allow the victims to be treated for their wounds. Make a game system out of it.

That's all.

kevlarto_ESO

I agree with ZOs for not going any further, for the reasons a lot of others have pointed out and ZOS even admitted the system would have been exploited, this game has enough exploits already no need to add more.

Star Wars Galaxy bounty system was just a free pass to griefers, only fun for griefers.
But when you read posts about max level players that cant wait to go to the lowbie area and kill lowbies that comment crimes, ZOS made the right decision
And all I do these days is pvp in this game, and I have no interest in griefing players playing the game.

Daemons_Bane

In the end, it all comes down to that we have 2 groups.. Those who are for, and those who are against.. Until ZOS can make a system that ensures both sides are happy, the Justice System will stay as is..

KaleidoscopeEyz

No thank you. This idea doesn't need to just die, it needs to be salted and torched as well. You want to kill fellow players, go to Cyrodil or IC. Don't try and turn PvE area into PvP. Tuuurible.

rotaugen454

Any way that players can grief in this game, they will. Much like the people who would kill the werewolf spawns and charge for bites.

White wabbit

Omg this again I thought Zos said that this wasn't going to happen and yet people still try and bring the subject back up

waterfairy

That scene would happen regardless of any reporting justice system...do you think they murdered all those people stealthily?

STEVIL

LaiTash wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

@STEVIL I believe LaiTash is from a generation, or group, of gamers that just "game". Their isn't an important distinction between PvE or PvP. I know exactly what's meant.

There was a time in MMOs the gear you'd use for PvE was the same as PvP, while there's always pure optimum, it was just a more seamless flow between both camps.

The gulf in games now at least seems way, way, wider.

its certainly quite significant in ESO. the game and the forum involved here, so thats why i dont get how anyone informed couldnt recognize the significance of that difference.

Why would one want to wear a pve gear to do justice stuff? One can do it all naked.

As part of other pve questing etc and so forth in the pve areas. in PVE area doing pve stuff wear pve gear - seems obvious enough.

AmberLaTerra

This dead horse is dug up and beaten over and over and it all comes down to one thing. Mostly poor PVPers who cannot hold their own in Cyro wanting easy kills of PVE players.

Let's not forget for this little system where they add in it only at max bounty, if a PVE player slips up for a moment and has to run from a guard they are instantly at max bounty, even if their bounty before hand was only one gold and they miscalculated on it dropping to 0 instead of 1 hence being stopped by the guard.

You want PVP you have 2 options now in Cyrodiil and Imperial city. In less then 2 weeks you will have the 3rd option of dueling. If you can't handle fighting someone who is geared and prepared to fight back in those ways you are nothing more then a greifer who wants to take their lack of skill out on people who cannot fight back due to not being geared to do so end of story.

STEVIL

LaiTash wrote: »

My khajiit won't let me sleep again, so

STEVIL wrote: »

I would agree that it's unlikely most people who wanted open world pvp vs everyone as their primary gameplay have stayed with eso. Those who enjoy interactions of the other types, not so much with the grouping and guiding available I would be.

It's not about "open world pvp" - the idea of unrestricted open world pvp seemed nice to UO creators before they had to deal with actual players. It's about adding *some* limited pvp elements to the game, otherwise bethesda could just make ES6 with cooperative features, no need to make a mmo.

Yeah I think any content will be considered dull or otherwise uninteresting to some people and interesting to others. I find pvp dull. I find achievement hunting dull. I find fishing dull. Others do not. If I were forced to fish I likely wouldn't play.

Somehow every mmo forces pvp-oriented folk to pve and they don't object. Those who did are now playing moba.

Occasional pvp or fishing or having to go quest just to axquire an achievement would be dull and unfun to me. It would not be a part of the game I would play.

So, if a massive multiplayer online rpg forces you to interact with other players without your consent here and there you consider it dull and not fun??!

If it were forced on me by certain content, I would avoid that content. If it were mandatory, likely not be playing in the game. My game time is limited and valuable so why waste it on stuff I don't enjoy?

Participation in justice system is by no means mandatory, so you should be fine.

My comment you snipped was about calling content incomplete because it doesn't have pvp elements. I disagree with that characterization.

It's incomplete because we've got half of what we were promised.

First bold - well for me forcing me to interact with other players (or pretty much anything) WITHOUT MY CONSENT is not an element i prefer in a game or a pasttime. maybe i am just silly but i feel i have the right to choose who i play with. i also feel i deserve the right to choose which content i play.

Second bold - And there you go.... just takes a little scratching to get to the stone beneath the facade - the underlying rub - if one doesn't want PVP dont play the justice system after the pv crowd gets its way. No matter how many times they say it aint so.... thats what it is about - what they come back to.

Third bold - if one by now hasn't managed to suss out that not everything in an initial plan works out, not every early feature planned for new product gets made into reality and so on, there is little this discussion can do to help.

STEVIL

bellanca6561n wrote: »

What sort of game world is this? Somebody in zone chat calls it Aleppo Online....as a joke. Folks say all sorts of things in zone chat though.

Just let me do something. Don't have to kill them. If I wanted to kill players I'd have a much better time in Cyrodiil. Require a radius from players. Drop the death rattle and allow the victims to be treated for their wounds. Make a game system out of it.

That's all.

Can i also when playing my vampire character get the same consideration when i see vamps being butchered in central eastmarch? Can my werewolf character get the same consideration when i see my kinfolks being slaughtered in malbor over some minstrels right to sing? Can my AD have the same exclusion zones around my fellows when they try and help out those folks in evermore at the request of the area leadership and some outside meddler comes in and interferes?

Allow me to heal those guys and get them back on their feet to stop the miscreant or at least keep them from falling in the first place - if one wants a system to allow player intervention in activities of other players they find unsettling.

Sound good to you or... is it just... limited only to... the content where PVP is a formerly mentioned and discarded but some wont let go option that should be considered offensive enough?

if my wood elf has a serious problem with you grinding bears and wolves for selling their body parts or my argonian has a serious problem seeing you slaughter crocodiles and hacking out for their teeth to sell having seen an argonian turn into a croc once already - or my khajiit has a problem with you hunting down senche pelts for bounty... can i get the same considerations?

or can we all agree that this is a game where that M rating for violence and gore was applied and where player-on-player intervention is segregated by design?

But most seriously, if you are disturbed by seeing dead bodies or even hearing death sounds, maybe a game with a different rating for gore and violence is your cup of tea. I mean, things scream a lot when killed in this game.

STEVIL

KaleidoscopeEyz wrote: »

No thank you. This idea doesn't need to just die, it needs to be salted and torched as well. You want to kill fellow players, go to Cyrodil or IC. Don't try and turn PvE area into PvP. Tuuurible.

or duel most anywhere in just a few weeks.

All with players who agree.

Obviously not enough if one wants to go after PVE players but as seen above in some posts its not about just turning pve areas into pvp arenas but also taking over pve content and making participation in that content also PVP enabling.

STEVIL

Question for @bellanca6561n and others who think being spotted committing a crime should enable other player intervention or even PVP (for some):

We will soon have dueling.

Should dueling and killing another character in a city watched by witnesses be a crime and provoke bounties and guard responses or do you consider seeing two characters killing each other on the streets only a problem if one is an NPC?

AmberLaTerra

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

This thread made me chuckle. I remember mastering 14 professions to unlock the ability to be a Jedi in a long distant game.

I remember facing off against bounty hunters tracking me to distant planets, way out in the wild and facing off. It was awesome. (We didn't usually fight in cities, wasn't smart to be a Jedi in a city unless you were rolling deep)

So I actually have done more PvE then I ever would want just to have a chance at amazing PvP moments.

I feel like when first announced the justice system would be similar to bounty hunting in SWG from the enforcement perspective. That didn't happen, a shame.

No question some of my best gaming memories are from that system from hunting as a bh to surviving as a Jedi. For that experience you had to do a stupid amount of PvE for PvP and I do it again in a heartbeat. Shame ESO never tapped at sandbox potential an elder scrolls game can embody.

I too remember that game and remembering all the work I put into becoming a Jedi, only to end up being griefed constantly not by solo bounty hunters, but by said bounty hunters and groups of friends they paid to come along with them. I clearly remember my game play experience becoming non existent as I could do nothing in the game but run from and avoid these large greifing groups.

I also remember when that game changed the system and playing the game when being a jedi was doable. While many of the changes were for the worse, being able to actually play the game content and not just always be running from griefers was a welcome change.

Looking back through the rose tinted glasses and only remembering the exceedingly rare 1v1 bounty hunter is not the best argument for justice PVP here when many of us also played that game and remember the truth of how it was, and some of us actually stuck around in that game after that horrid greifing system was removed. I am one of those who played from launch until close.

Sadly those who left at the change and did not stick it out through the bad were not around to see how amazing the game became in the last year and a half of play time. That final year and a half of SWG is still the best online gaming I have ever played.

Edit: Have to add this. "And what do you know in that last year and a half, bounties could only be earned in PVP zones, not in PVE ones, and not in space combat (in less you attacked your own faction). Bounty Hunters still got their work from bounties earned by PVP actions and that was plenty of work for them. Greifing was no longer an issue."

Bryanonymous

"The justice system is about not getting caught."

Yea, that sounds pretty lame. As a huge GTA fan, fun justice is being able to fight back. This whole 'sneaky theif or die' justice system is just a nursery for carebear criminals.

I_killed_Vivec

I don't believe that anyone has a coherent set of proposals for how PvP justice could be implemented successfully while not adversely impacting the experience of players who choose not to opt in.

I've seen lots of proposals (by people who obviously want to be games developers, but quite clearly aren't) that simply do not bear close inspection. I suspect that ZoS haven't been able to come up with anything either, certainly not anything that protects players from griefing and doesn't impact on players who don't want PvP in their everyday PvE experience - particularly if they have paid for TG and DB.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Disagree @AmberLaTerra , when I unlocked Jedi, as with other members of my guild we knew we were going to be hunted. The game world turned hostile to a Jedi like it should. That's what made it enjoyable for me, clearly more people are in your camp. We were Jedi in a game world that considered most Jedi extinct. So of course rolling through a city, doing normal stuff would be utterly odd and would attract negative attention.

And it wasn't exceedingly rare. Not at all. And it wasn't an instant death sentence either. Plenty of times people would come with the bh to just watch. Same thing happened when I was the bh.

Your describing a game that wasn't the norm for me and the guild I was in, maybe for you but not all. I do remember the blowback on the forums though, and yea many of us left, it was no longer a game we enjoyed. Sticking it out wouldn't have helped since the base mechanics weren't appealing.

AmberLaTerra

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

Disagree @AmberLaTerra , when I unlocked Jedi, as with other members of my guild we knew we were going to be hunted. The game world turned hostile to a Jedi like it should. That's what made it enjoyable for me, clearly more people are in your camp. We were Jedi in a game world that considered most Jedi extinct. So of course rolling through a city, doing normal stuff would be utterly odd and would attract negative attention.

And it wasn't exceedingly rare. Not at all. And it wasn't an instant death sentence either. Plenty of times people would come with the bh to just watch. Same thing happened when I was the bh.

Your describing a game that wasn't the norm for me and the guild I was in, maybe for you but not all. I do remember the blowback on the forums though, and yea many of us left, it was no longer a game we enjoyed. Sticking it out wouldn't have helped since the base mechanics weren't appealing.

Not once did I experience people coming with the hunter "Just to watch" they always jumped in along with the hunter. This was the case on both the shadowfire and eclipse servers for me. Do not try to tell me what I experienced was not the norm when I did indeed go through it and still am in contact with many others who I played with who also regretted becoming Jedi do to not being able to even play that character anymore, or chose to not even bother trying to become one due to what we were put through.

Like I said looking back through rose tinted glasses and only remembering it how you wish to is one thing, but reality was much different.

LaiTash

STEVIL wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

@STEVIL I believe LaiTash is from a generation, or group, of gamers that just "game". Their isn't an important distinction between PvE or PvP. I know exactly what's meant.

There was a time in MMOs the gear you'd use for PvE was the same as PvP, while there's always pure optimum, it was just a more seamless flow between both camps.

The gulf in games now at least seems way, way, wider.

its certainly quite significant in ESO. the game and the forum involved here, so thats why i dont get how anyone informed couldnt recognize the significance of that difference.

Why would one want to wear a pve gear to do justice stuff? One can do it all naked.

As part of other pve questing etc and so forth in the pve areas. in PVE area doing pve stuff wear pve gear - seems obvious enough.

If you're going to participate in something that

a) doesn't require pve gear
b) can end up with pvp

you'll probably want to wear pvp gear. "But this is a pve area!" isn't an excuse here. It's not like an obligation to wear pve gear in pve areas. Especially when most pve content doesn't need you to wear anything at all except your underwear because you can't take it off.