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Please return the milegate scaffolding
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Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes
Unless ESO has the worst engineers in gaming, none of them are writing gameplay code. It does not take a software engineer to write it. If someone can code in very high level languages like PHP, they can write gameplay code for most games. That's a lot of people.I'm not looking at it with the "wide eyes of a child", I'm being realistic. You are trivializing code that has taken years to develop. It is absolutely not "generally very basic" in any sense, or everyone would go be a software engineer.
You are greatly complicating this topic. Many of us have experiences that we can use to put what we see from ZOS into context.
It takes a software engineer to coordinate the disparate systems that a game like ESO needs to implement, and as it turns out coding in very high level languages like PHP is still coding.
You are trivializing something that is frankly over your head.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Unless ESO has the worst engineers in gaming, none of them are writing gameplay code. It does not take a software engineer to write it. If someone can code in very high level languages like PHP, they can write gameplay code for most games. That's a lot of people.I'm not looking at it with the "wide eyes of a child", I'm being realistic. You are trivializing code that has taken years to develop. It is absolutely not "generally very basic" in any sense, or everyone would go be a software engineer.
You are greatly complicating this topic. Many of us have experiences that we can use to put what we see from ZOS into context.
It takes a software engineer to coordinate the disparate systems that a game like ESO needs to implement, and as it turns out coding in very high level languages like PHP is still coding.
You are trivializing something that is frankly over your head.
Who is making baseless assumptions now? You don't really follow game development, do you?0 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Unless ESO has the worst engineers in gaming, none of them are writing gameplay code. It does not take a software engineer to write it. If someone can code in very high level languages like PHP, they can write gameplay code for most games. That's a lot of people.I'm not looking at it with the "wide eyes of a child", I'm being realistic. You are trivializing code that has taken years to develop. It is absolutely not "generally very basic" in any sense, or everyone would go be a software engineer.
You are greatly complicating this topic. Many of us have experiences that we can use to put what we see from ZOS into context.
It takes a software engineer to coordinate the disparate systems that a game like ESO needs to implement, and as it turns out coding in very high level languages like PHP is still coding.
You are trivializing something that is frankly over your head.
Who is making baseless assumptions now? You don't really follow game development, do you?
Every actual engineer in this thread that works on actual large, distributed, heterogenous software projects knows the difference between hacking a PHP script and the kind of work needed to make a system like ESO run. You are compounding your own embarrassment here.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion2 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Unless ESO has the worst engineers in gaming, none of them are writing gameplay code. It does not take a software engineer to write it. If someone can code in very high level languages like PHP, they can write gameplay code for most games. That's a lot of people.I'm not looking at it with the "wide eyes of a child", I'm being realistic. You are trivializing code that has taken years to develop. It is absolutely not "generally very basic" in any sense, or everyone would go be a software engineer.
You are greatly complicating this topic. Many of us have experiences that we can use to put what we see from ZOS into context.
It takes a software engineer to coordinate the disparate systems that a game like ESO needs to implement, and as it turns out coding in very high level languages like PHP is still coding.
You are trivializing something that is frankly over your head.
Who is making baseless assumptions now? You don't really follow game development, do you?
Every actual engineer in this thread that works on actual large, distributed, heterogenous software projects knows the difference between hacking a PHP script and the kind of work needed to make a system like ESO run. You are compounding your own embarrassment here.
But, it's a fun read.0 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes
Unless ESO has the worst engineers in gaming, none of them are writing gameplay code. It does not take a software engineer to write it. If someone can code in very high level languages like PHP, they can write gameplay code for most games. That's a lot of people.I'm not looking at it with the "wide eyes of a child", I'm being realistic. You are trivializing code that has taken years to develop. It is absolutely not "generally very basic" in any sense, or everyone would go be a software engineer.
You are greatly complicating this topic. Many of us have experiences that we can use to put what we see from ZOS into context.
It takes a software engineer to coordinate the disparate systems that a game like ESO needs to implement, and as it turns out coding in very high level languages like PHP is still coding.
You are trivializing something that is frankly over your head.
Who is making baseless assumptions now? You don't really follow game development, do you?
Every actual engineer in this thread that works on actual large, distributed, heterogenous software projects knows the difference between hacking a PHP script and the kind of work needed to make a system like ESO run. You are compounding your own embarrassment here.
@zyk Pretty much this. Your argument seems to be that everything except art assets comes in premade code packages that a two-year-old can stitch together, and that's just simply not the case.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster0 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesSandman929 wrote: »
Unless ESO has the worst engineers in gaming, none of them are writing gameplay code. It does not take a software engineer to write it. If someone can code in very high level languages like PHP, they can write gameplay code for most games. That's a lot of people.I'm not looking at it with the "wide eyes of a child", I'm being realistic. You are trivializing code that has taken years to develop. It is absolutely not "generally very basic" in any sense, or everyone would go be a software engineer.
You are greatly complicating this topic. Many of us have experiences that we can use to put what we see from ZOS into context.
It takes a software engineer to coordinate the disparate systems that a game like ESO needs to implement, and as it turns out coding in very high level languages like PHP is still coding.
You are trivializing something that is frankly over your head.
Who is making baseless assumptions now? You don't really follow game development, do you?
Every actual engineer in this thread that works on actual large, distributed, heterogenous software projects knows the difference between hacking a PHP script and the kind of work needed to make a system like ESO run. You are compounding your own embarrassment here.
But, it's a fun read.
IDK, I changed careers from health science to computer science so I could get away from armchair professionals acting like they know better because they read a wikipedia article once, so this whole fiasco is really just more frustrating for me than anything.
At least in computer science I'm not going to get outmarketed by someone scripting a pill to solve all the clients' problems, I guess. Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Unless ESO has the worst engineers in gaming, none of them are writing gameplay code. It does not take a software engineer to write it. If someone can code in very high level languages like PHP, they can write gameplay code for most games. That's a lot of people.I'm not looking at it with the "wide eyes of a child", I'm being realistic. You are trivializing code that has taken years to develop. It is absolutely not "generally very basic" in any sense, or everyone would go be a software engineer.
You are greatly complicating this topic. Many of us have experiences that we can use to put what we see from ZOS into context.
It takes a software engineer to coordinate the disparate systems that a game like ESO needs to implement, and as it turns out coding in very high level languages like PHP is still coding.
You are trivializing something that is frankly over your head.
Who is making baseless assumptions now? You don't really follow game development, do you?
Every actual engineer in this thread that works on actual large, distributed, heterogenous software projects knows the difference between hacking a PHP script and the kind of work needed to make a system like ESO run. You are compounding your own embarrassment here.
Hardly. Here is a typical job lsting for a game designer expected to write gameplay code:
http://jobs.gamasutra.com/job/game-designer-unreal-engine-4-eatontown-new-jersey-28769
Most gameplay is implemented by designers with only basic programming knowledge, not by bona fide computer scientists.Edited by zyk on September 7, 2016 9:45PM0 -
svartorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesZOS caters only to the stupid casuals.
No doors on resources. No scaffolding.
Pretty soon 100% AP buffs to all players under 200 cp.1 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Unless ESO has the worst engineers in gaming, none of them are writing gameplay code. It does not take a software engineer to write it. If someone can code in very high level languages like PHP, they can write gameplay code for most games. That's a lot of people.I'm not looking at it with the "wide eyes of a child", I'm being realistic. You are trivializing code that has taken years to develop. It is absolutely not "generally very basic" in any sense, or everyone would go be a software engineer.
You are greatly complicating this topic. Many of us have experiences that we can use to put what we see from ZOS into context.
It takes a software engineer to coordinate the disparate systems that a game like ESO needs to implement, and as it turns out coding in very high level languages like PHP is still coding.
You are trivializing something that is frankly over your head.
Who is making baseless assumptions now? You don't really follow game development, do you?
Every actual engineer in this thread that works on actual large, distributed, heterogenous software projects knows the difference between hacking a PHP script and the kind of work needed to make a system like ESO run. You are compounding your own embarrassment here.
Hardly. Here is a typical job lsting for a game designer expected to write gameplay code:
http://jobs.gamasutra.com/job/game-designer-unreal-engine-4-eatontown-new-jersey-28769
Most gameplay is implemented by designers with only basic programming knowledge, not by bona fide computer scientists.
@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Unless ESO has the worst engineers in gaming, none of them are writing gameplay code. It does not take a software engineer to write it. If someone can code in very high level languages like PHP, they can write gameplay code for most games. That's a lot of people.I'm not looking at it with the "wide eyes of a child", I'm being realistic. You are trivializing code that has taken years to develop. It is absolutely not "generally very basic" in any sense, or everyone would go be a software engineer.
You are greatly complicating this topic. Many of us have experiences that we can use to put what we see from ZOS into context.
It takes a software engineer to coordinate the disparate systems that a game like ESO needs to implement, and as it turns out coding in very high level languages like PHP is still coding.
You are trivializing something that is frankly over your head.
Who is making baseless assumptions now? You don't really follow game development, do you?
Every actual engineer in this thread that works on actual large, distributed, heterogenous software projects knows the difference between hacking a PHP script and the kind of work needed to make a system like ESO run. You are compounding your own embarrassment here.
Hardly. Here is a typical job lsting for a game designer expected to write gameplay code:
http://jobs.gamasutra.com/job/game-designer-unreal-engine-4-eatontown-new-jersey-28769
Most gameplay is implemented by designers with only basic programming knowledge, not by bona fide computer scientists.
Yep. There's no fighting that. That military game from IPKeys Technologies sounds awesome though.0 -
Vitaely✭✭✭YesBoth sides have acceptable points. Game design (and programming) and system engineering (and programming) are very separate things. While game design may be simple to most seasoned coders, system engineering and load balancing and upkeep issues aren't.
Now can we focus on the problems that we can see (#bringback3rdfloor) and stop making claims about what exactly is wrong with zos as a company? I know we all love that subject, but this thread had a point before this discussion.Edited by Vitaely on September 7, 2016 9:59PMFactotum | PC NAAD E'lurin sNB | Curufinwë Fëanor mDK | Anaïs Le Fey mSC | Fréyja mT | Nïenna mW
EP E'lured sNB | Vanÿa sT | Caïssä mDK
DC E'lwing mNB
PVE Brýnhildur mDK | E'lectra sSC | Antígone sDK | Valkýrja mNB | Yølanda sW3 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Both sides have acceptable points. Game design (and programming) and system engineering (and programming) are very separate things. While game design may be simple to most seasoned coders, system engineering and load balancing and upkeep issues aren't.
Now can we focus on the problems that we can see (#bringback3rdfloor) and stop making claims about what exactly is wrong with zos as a company? I know we all love that subject, but this thread had a point before this discussion.
Yeah....no third floor, I don't really get that. I'm not a fan of the resource doors though, simply because they work in favor of the side that doesn't own the resource.0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
IDK, I changed careers from health science to computer science so I could get away from armchair professionals acting like they know better because they read a wikipedia article once, so this whole fiasco is really just more frustrating for me than anything. At least in computer science I'm not going to get outmarketed by someone scripting a pill to solve all the clients' problems, I guess.
For somebody asking others to display humility, you are lacking it yourself. The modern gaming industry was built by enthusiasts you would stick your nose up at. Some were even children when they began modding and writing gameplay code for Quake engine games.
It's not a passion of mine, but even as a poor programmer, I have no issues deciphering gameplay code for any engine I have observed. If one can script proficiently, one can learn gameplay design.
You accuse me of over-simplifying, but it is you who is over-complicating.Edited by zyk on September 8, 2016 4:44PM1 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes
IDK, I changed careers from health science to computer science so I could get away from armchair professionals acting like they know better because they read a wikipedia article once, so this whole fiasco is really just more frustrating for me than anything. At least in computer science I'm not going to get outmarketed by someone scripting a pill to solve all the clients' problems, I guess.
For somebody asking others to display humility, you are lacking it yourself. The modern gaming industry was built by enthusiasts you would stick your nose up at. Some were even children when they began modding and writing gameplay code Quake engine games.
It's not a passion of mine, but even as a poor programmer, I have no issues deciphering gameplay code for any engine I have observed. If one can script proficiently, one can learn gameplay design.
You accuse me of over-simplifying, but it is you who is over-complicating.
I don't ask for humility, I ask for people not to talk out their butt and mislead others based on their own misinformed interpretations. You seem really insistent on continuing to do so, but at least other experts are corroborating the truth which you seem so eager to disregard. Have fun with your scripts, kiddie.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
IDK, I changed careers from health science to computer science so I could get away from armchair professionals acting like they know better because they read a wikipedia article once, so this whole fiasco is really just more frustrating for me than anything. At least in computer science I'm not going to get outmarketed by someone scripting a pill to solve all the clients' problems, I guess.
For somebody asking others to display humility, you are lacking it yourself. The modern gaming industry was built by enthusiasts you would stick your nose up at. Some were even children when they began modding and writing gameplay code Quake engine games.
It's not a passion of mine, but even as a poor programmer, I have no issues deciphering gameplay code for any engine I have observed. If one can script proficiently, one can learn gameplay design.
You accuse me of over-simplifying, but it is you who is over-complicating.
I don't ask for humility, I ask for people not to talk out their butt and mislead others based on their own misinformed interpretations. You seem really insistent on continuing to do so, but at least other experts are corroborating the truth which you seem so eager to disregard. Have fun with your scripts, kiddie.
And enjoy your needless verbosity!0 -
sadownik✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Recremen
Frankly speaking the whole argument "you are not a programmer so dont talk about quality of code in ESO" as somewhat childish equivalent of "give it a time its a new game" that i still see thrown around. Do i have to be a master chief to judge the dish served me in restaurant? Do i need to be car design expert to know if the car im driving feels good? I hope not.
Edited by sadownik on September 7, 2016 11:03PM2 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes@Recremen
Frankly speaking the whole argument "you are not a programmer so dont talk about quality of code in ESO" as somewhat childish equivalent of "give it a time its a new game" that i still see thrown around. Do i have to be a master chief to judge the dish served me in restaurant? Do i need to be car design expert to know if the car im driving feels good? I hope not.
False equivalence, you are talking about a subjective experience and not the actual technical skill of the professional. If I don't like squid, I'm going to hate a chef's kalimari dish, regardless of how perfectly it's been put together. If I were to then turn around and say "hey, chef, you didn't use enough dill in this", the chef is rightly going to be ticked because I have no idea what I'm talking about. Or let's say I like kalimari, but one of the spices the chef uses happens to get clumped up into one of the suckers and I take a bite and burn my tongue. It's a fault on the chef's part, and it sucks for me the consumer, but I'm not about to identify whatever spice got clumped up there or what the chef could have done to prevent it. If I tried, I would look like a complete idiot because I lack the technical knowledge necessary to diagnose the issue. I've said it before in this thread, subjective experience is fine to comment on, but it's asinine to pretend you're an expert in a field where you clearly aren't.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster1 -
Ghostbane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yestl;dr
Saw a PHP comparison somewhere. Incidentally, if the game where written/running via PHP it would explain a few things
@TooskSG Awwwww yesh. Send me an invite and we'll blob it up!{★★★★★ · ★★★★★ · ★★ · ★★★★★}350m+ AP PC - EUAddons
AD :: Imported Waffles [37]EP :: Wee ee ee ee ee [16]DC :: Ghostbane's DK [16], Impending Loadscreen [12]PC - NA
AD :: Ghostbane [50], yer ma [43], Sir Humphrey Winterbottom 2.0 [18], robotic baby legs [18]EP :: Wee Mad Arthur [50], avast ye buttcrackz [49], Sir Horace Foghorn [27], Brother Ballbag [24], Scatman John [16]DC :: W T B Waffles [36], Morale Boost [30], W T F Waffles [17], Ghostbanë [15]RIPAD :: Sir Humphrey Winterbottom 1.0 [20]- AP Meter : All your AP needs
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1 -
MattT1988✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm still stuck in a cage of wood and regret, someone please come help meSeriously guys......I'm getting hungry......0 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yes"I'm getting hungry" [catches and consumes ultimate] -> death -> 20th wipe in a row -> still no helmet
[leaves group, rage-quits game, flips table]
P.S. Off-topic but I can't abstain
Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
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Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »We hear you and will be looking at this change gang!
While you´re at it (another subject), can you not change the BoP thing??? It´s just bad.0 -
ZOS_BrianWheelerPvP & Combat LeadChalman and Ash Milegates have been adjusted to allow for top level access and will be in a PTS build coming soon. However, there are now just 2 staircases that lead to the middle and top floors. We removed the stair cases that led to just the middle floor, and pushed the three tier stairs to the edges of the milegate. This removes the maze of scaffolding near the main doorway AND retains access to the third level without there being a ton of clutter on the bottom level.
Edited by ZOS_BrianWheeler on September 9, 2016 5:52PMWheeler
ESO PVP Lead & Combat Lead7 -
Daggerfall_Bones✭✭✭YesZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Chalman and Ash Milegates have been adjusted to allow for top level access and will be in a PTS build coming soon. However, there are now just 2 staircases that lead to the middle and top floors. We removed the stair cases that led to just the middle floor, and pushed the three tier stairs to the edges of the milegate. This removes the maze of scaffolding near the main doorway AND retains access to the third level without there being a ton of clutter on the bottom level.
Nice. Now can we get these gates and towers destructable like keeps and resources towers? You could have some neutral carpenters build them back or be actual control points like the towns. I'd much rather see these as strategic objectives than dank AP farming nodes.
I like the 3 story access is back while getting rid of a few 2x4s adding 100% damage mitigation to builds.Edited by Daggerfall_Bones on September 9, 2016 6:11PMBones - Dunmer DK0 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Chalman and Ash Milegates have been adjusted to allow for top level access and will be in a PTS build coming soon. However, there are now just 2 staircases that lead to the middle and top floors. We removed the stair cases that led to just the middle floor, and pushed the three tier stairs to the edges of the milegate. This removes the maze of scaffolding near the main doorway AND retains access to the third level without there being a ton of clutter on the bottom level.
0 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Chalman and Ash Milegates have been adjusted to allow for top level access and will be in a PTS build coming soon. However, there are now just 2 staircases that lead to the middle and top floors. We removed the stair cases that led to just the middle floor, and pushed the three tier stairs to the edges of the milegate. This removes the maze of scaffolding near the main doorway AND retains access to the third level without there being a ton of clutter on the bottom level.
Thanks for listening, and that sounds like some interesting changes! I'll have to see it on live to discover what new kinds of fun can be had with this system versus the old system!Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster0 -
Hektik_V✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Chalman and Ash Milegates have been adjusted to allow for top level access and will be in a PTS build coming soon. However, there are now just 2 staircases that lead to the middle and top floors. We removed the stair cases that led to just the middle floor, and pushed the three tier stairs to the edges of the milegate. This removes the maze of scaffolding near the main doorway AND retains access to the third level without there being a ton of clutter on the bottom level.
You da real mvp0