Any ETA - Massive Imbalances

Pandorii

Hopefully next update means -the PTS update. =S *wishful thinking*

Edit: just watched the video, and he said "we'll be looking into stamina and magicka balance next update. the one after one tamriel."

Dracane

Pandorii wrote: »

Hopefully next update means -the PTS update. =S *wishful thinking*

No. He said, the update after. So not this one.

Lord-Otto

Thank you, Dracane!
Yeah, I am VERY doubtful about this guy and his "balancing". Just looking at the 2H/Bow ults should ring every alarm bell in a 50 mile radius around you, so...
The rest doesn't make happy, neither. Another three months of complete and utter stamina dominance? Not participating, thanks!
(-_-)p
Like, why is he even refusing to do something NOW? Is he afraid of actually working?

Dracane

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Thank you, Dracane!
Yeah, I am VERY doubtful about this guy and his "balancing". Just looking at the 2H/Bow ults should ring every alarm bell in a 50 mile radius around you, so...
The rest doesn't make happy, neither. Another three months of complete and utter stamina dominance? Not participating, thanks!
(-_-)p
Like, why is he even refusing to do something NOW? Is he afraid of actually working?

This update buffed Stamina by a LOT. Set wise and ability wise. Along with nerfs to magicka.
So we should expect things to get even worse now.

And the next update might come end of january. So that's such a looong time. I don't think I'll be playing this game alot.

Lord-Otto

Neither will I.
I have practically left and am just playing a bit to reach the next PvP rank. Give it one or two days. Hours, if I'm playing seriously. Funny, my game chat is broken. XBox party chat is fine, but if I plug in my mic, the in-game chat mutes. Can't hear anyone talking. Searched YouTube for solutions, unsuccessful. I am practically playing solo now, and it just utterly reveals how stale this game is, with an exaggerated focus on mindless grinding. Seriously, your dailies consist of mindless crafting. In Destiny, at least, you get to play a mission with special modifiers, what gives?
Destiny: Rise of Iron is coming. So is Dark Souls 3 DLC. Bioshock Collection. SKYRIM REMASTERED. And ZOS expect me to play a complete and utterly broken game? Good luck with that. Zero reason to do that. Way to drive your customers away from the game!
>=C

FearlessOne_2014

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue

Stealth burst wouldnt even be an issue if people slotted Radiant Mage Light. People are to consumed with there 1v1/X builds that they refuse to slot it.

Every magicka build in game that uses inner light could sacrifice 5% magicka to prevent 50% of stealth burst and prevent the stun aswell. Yet people still complain about gankers.

Rogues will always be cancer regardless of the MMO you play but that doesnt mean they shouldnt exist.

Like you said, without gankers we would have tanks everywhere. We need roles like this to even out the balance of power.

Velidrith is overperforming though just to be clear on burst sets. I used Viper back in the v14 days and nobody complained.

I ritualistically been carrying Radiant Mage Light in Cyrodiil since DB dlc. I usually watch those I'm grouped with then chase rabbits down get stealth ganked. While I usually survives long enoth to get a heal of two in Azure's Star. The only people that have been able to burst me down in Azure's Star these days are the gankers that seems can still CC me from stealth with my Radiant Mage Light and still manage to hit me with 15k - 16k INCAPs while I'm in Azure Star with 5 pieces Impen on.But I think those are dued to cheat engine.

STEVIL

Perpetuation wrote: »

Let's look at the changes.
3 new stamina damage ults, a two hander ult that refunds itself if you get a kill and bypasses all resistances - also gives you the resistances you bypassed. Straight up what? Whoever even came up with this idea? [snip] This skill is going to be ridiculous and I cannot believe that this was passed off as balanced by the development team and even made it to the PTS in its current state.

Next we have the bow ultimate which is basically soul assault on steroids that you don't even have to take the risk of channeling yourself with the ballista morph. The other morph basically just says "oh you thought we made soul assault look bad before? Let's add even more damage and make magicka builds look stupid for even thinking their soul assault could compare to ours"

Lastly we have dual wield, a very strong AoE that heals for damage done and can morph to do more damage. I don't have such strong opinions on this one but it still looks significantly better than the magicka destro staff ulti.


What did magicka get to even possibly compete with such strong ultimates? Surely something very strong that deals high burst damage with a low cost so that it can even compete with everything stam got, right? No. Not even close.
ZoS completely dropped the ball on this one. A 250 costing ult that has a weaker DoT than meteor, without the initial burst damage impact of meteor even coming into consideration. Oh did we mention it has a 2 second charge up time that's telegraphed basically saying "HEY GET OUT OF HERE NOW LOOOOL WEAK DMG INC"
Oh and I forgot to mention that all your staff type does is change the color of the ultimate. To get the ultimate to actually have an elemental effect you HAVE TO PICK THAT AS THE MORPH, it's not even just an assumed part of the ability that it changes based off of your staff. Mind boggling.


Just, why? Were there two blind rooms where each part of the team designed different ultis, and when it was time to release the PTS they all just stuck their ideas into a little box that wasn't looked at and then just dumped into the PTS? Because that's the only explanation I could come up with to how there is such a massive imbalance with these weapon ultimates.

Dueling? Sure it will be fun stam vs stam testing out their new toys. Magicka might as well pick up and reroll now before there is just an imposed ban upon anyone with a magicka character.

Other changes include making it so that zergs can more easily kill people in towers, and a plethora of class balance changes that were greatly needed. OH WAIT, nope!
Not a single class balance change IN TWO PATCHES.

[edited for inappropriate commentary]

We have seen it before.

We saw how after the time before last the sorc class was just deleted as unplayable after it was killed as all thevearly playtests saw.

We saw how poisons killed the game, blew up pvp and now everyobe uses those... ending ESO altogether.

We saw how enchanting nodes ended the viability of even trying to do those anymore which doesnt matter cuz everyone plays the OP GAME REKT POISONS anywsy.

Now we see and know as sure as we knew all the above how the end of days will next be sfter sering the stats for weapon ults after the first PTS release before even seeing the first patch.

Day four pf PTS and i hope the sun comes up for you too.

Lord-Otto

But we ARE seeing a massive drop in magicka sorcs and overall magicka builds. This isn't some prophetic doomsday prayer, Stevil. This is really happening.

DKsUnite

@Forestd16b14_ESO I was waiting for someone to use that argument. Why is that even a point? Yes magicka was dominant until 1.6 or 1.7. But why should that justify having imbalance now? 2 wrongs don't make a right

MalakithAlamahdi

My biggest problem with magicka class right now is the lack of stamina (funny enough). Your regen is low, and you get stunned and snared every 6 seconds, so after 2-3 time's you're a sitting duck compared to all stamina classes, which also generally hit harder.

The only reason why stamina classes whine about Templars is because they heal and do damage at the same time like stamina can with vigor. But I've seen stamina Templars kill 10 man groups solo when they can surprise them, I doubt a magicka Templars can do that (except for a sun shield build vs potato's).

Pretty much no other class can pull that off. Sorcs had shields which are nerfed to oblivion, and surge pretty much gives no health any more. The only heal I got us healing ward, but then I can't do much damage back so you're screwed.

Magblades have cloak, and some symphony skills. Though stamina is a lot better IMO, as most nightblades gank anyway.

Magicka dk is pretty bad. I can tell 10 people and root them while staying alive, but they won't really die that way. The only one I had trouble fighting against was a Mdk with an ultimate regen build. But stamina DK is also far better in pretty much every aspect.

That combined with a lot of bugs and failing to break free is a pain in the ass. They need to rework the combat a bit.

Dracane

Stamina can actively use 2 ressources without any drawbacks. Not only their stamina, which also results in basically infinite break free's and rolls.

But also magicka, which they can safely use for magicka dump utility. Like purifying ritual, reflective scales, cloak and bolt escape.
Magick can't do this. We must manage our stamina very carefully if we want to be able to break every CC.
Every roll dodge we do can have lethal consequences and using stamina abilities is basically off the table.

We would have to sacrifise plenty of magical power and sustain if we would like to change that, while stamina doesn't have to do that. Stam can get the best from both worlds without any drawbacks. The strongest damage mitigation, the strongest burst, stongest utility and the best heal over time and also the best and most lethal sets in the entire game.

Another point is the huge imbalance between light armor and other armors, who provide more damage, damage mitigation and sustain.

WillhelmBlack

Dracane wrote: »

Eric Wrobel answered a few question on a stream chat yesterday.
He only said, that they will balance the ults base on our feedback and that they will adress magicka-stamina dps with the next update. Whenever this is going to be

Well that is where Wrobel is completely off point. Magicka builds don't want to hit as hard as stamina builds, they just want a way of surviving it when it comes to PvP.

HoloYoitsu

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Neither will I.
I have practically left and am just playing a bit to reach the next PvP rank. Give it one or two days. Hours, if I'm playing seriously. Funny, my game chat is broken. XBox party chat is fine, but if I plug in my mic, the in-game chat mutes. Can't hear anyone talking. Searched YouTube for solutions, unsuccessful. I am practically playing solo now, and it just utterly reveals how stale this game is, with an exaggerated focus on mindless grinding. Seriously, your dailies consist of mindless crafting. In Destiny, at least, you get to play a mission with special modifiers, what gives?
Destiny: Rise of Iron is coming. So is Dark Souls 3 DLC. Bioshock Collection. SKYRIM REMASTERED. And ZOS expect me to play a complete and utterly broken game? Good luck with that. Zero reason to do that. Way to drive your customers away from the game!
>=C

Well see, the fact that you recognize the game as broken proves in itself that you aren't the type of player Matt's looking for.

Matt Firor wrote:

You don’t see a hardcore playstyle - like playing for six months and then quitting - we don’t see that. We have a lot of players who will play for two or three weeks because they want to get through a zone and then stop. Then they come back two months later for another month, because there’s no pressure to play all of it at once.

Our DLC packs cater to that, because they’re smaller, bite-size chunks of story and associated quests.

Pinja

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Eric Wrobel answered a few question on a stream chat yesterday.
He only said, that they will balance the ults base on our feedback and that they will adress magicka-stamina dps with the next update. Whenever this is going to be

Well that is where Wrobel is completely off point. Magicka builds don't want to hit as hard as stamina builds, they just want a way of surviving it when it comes to PvP.

Now I'm not saying I want to go back to being able to stack shields more effectively & do nothing. Not saying staying alive isn't important, but for all the down play I want to be able to hit like a truck too.

Posted by Pinja for Dual Wands.

LegacyDM

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Eric Wrobel answered a few question on a stream chat yesterday.
He only said, that they will balance the ults base on our feedback and that they will adress magicka-stamina dps with the next update. Whenever this is going to be

Well that is where Wrobel is completely off point. Magicka builds don't want to hit as hard as stamina builds, they just want a way of surviving it when it comes to PvP.

This is where @wrobel screwed up. He blanketly lowered both magicka and stamina regeneration rates in the last two updates. He has no idea how much that hurt magicka users. He should increase magicka regeneration and or lower cost reduction on light armor. Or just give magicka users flat out better regen. By increasing magicka regen we would be able to allocate more cps into other skill trees like reduced dodge roll or break free. While also being able to wear more spell damage Jewlry instead of being forced into using regen at the sacrifice of damage. He could easily solve this by giving magicka better resource management. We deserve it, we have two pools we have to manage while stamina can min max one pool with better armor sets. Or the other options, if he doesn't want to mess with resources is he can give magicka users better armor sets to compensate. Or he can give magicka users a direct damage boost.

This is what I see. I see magicka classes = pve and stamina classes = pvp. He has successfully polarized and stovepipe the playstyles to extreme ends.

Dracane

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Eric Wrobel answered a few question on a stream chat yesterday.
He only said, that they will balance the ults base on our feedback and that they will adress magicka-stamina dps with the next update. Whenever this is going to be

Well that is where Wrobel is completely off point. Magicka builds don't want to hit as hard as stamina builds, they just want a way of surviving it when it comes to PvP.

Uhm yes, that's what we want We want to hit harder, to be able to deal with opponents in pvp.
Because right now, it's very hard to kill as a magicka build in the current meta.

DKsUnite

Dracane wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Eric Wrobel answered a few question on a stream chat yesterday.
He only said, that they will balance the ults base on our feedback and that they will adress magicka-stamina dps with the next update. Whenever this is going to be

Well that is where Wrobel is completely off point. Magicka builds don't want to hit as hard as stamina builds, they just want a way of surviving it when it comes to PvP.

Uhm yes, that's what we want We want to hit harder, to be able to deal with opponents in pvp.
Because right now, it's very hard to kill as a magicka build in the current meta.

i dont necessarily want to hit harder. I just dont want stamina healing as strong as it is. I feel like i hit hard enough to kill stamina users but when they vigor->roll->rally you cant do anything.... They get to full health instantly and then go offensive and then by the time you can attack them again, rally has stacked up to give another full health heal....

STEVIL

Lord-Otto wrote: »

But we ARE seeing a massive drop in magicka sorcs and overall magicka builds. This isn't some prophetic doomsday prayer, Stevil. This is really happening.

Point is you see and have seen waxes snd wanes all along in one build or another.

Remember as far back as 2016 when the furor plea and cry was that hesvy armor was sobuseless nobody played it and now its a not uncommon meta played and discussed all the time with its own GOTTA NERF HA threads and all?

Waxes and wanes in various styles are as common as hyperbolic overreactions with delusions of urgent demise and car video.

Aside: my vamps are kinda fondbof slotting ellusive mist for its 75% damred plus cc clear plus cc immunity leaving stam mostly free for other uses. A quick mist-n-strike is fun.

Pinja

STEVIL wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

But we ARE seeing a massive drop in magicka sorcs and overall magicka builds. This isn't some prophetic doomsday prayer, Stevil. This is really happening.

Point is you see and have seen waxes snd wanes all along in one build or another.

Remember as far back as 2016 when the furor plea and cry was that hesvy armor was sobuseless nobody played it and now its a not uncommon meta played and discussed all the time with its own GOTTA NERF HA threads and all?

Waxes and wanes in various styles are as common as hyperbolic overreactions with delusions of urgent demise and car video.

Aside: my vamps are kinda fondbof slotting ellusive mist for its 75% damred plus cc clear plus cc immunity leaving stam mostly free for other uses. A quick mist-n-strike is fun.

Well one thing that got HA popular is how terrible recovery got. There were only two foils to using HA & that was recovery & movement, with MA + being extra damage. So nowadays you might as well slot HA & gain a bit of resistance as well as to make your opponents dampend attacks be your recovery. Not an overpowered meta, just new & probably better alternative.
To that aside note, its odd for Magic to literally have to kill themselves inorder to avoid the number of people that'll do it for them. Even then all the more reason for Dawnbreaker to stay stams favorite ultimate.

Posted by Pinja for Dual Wands.

FearlessOne_2014

Dracane wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Eric Wrobel answered a few question on a stream chat yesterday.
He only said, that they will balance the ults base on our feedback and that they will adress magicka-stamina dps with the next update. Whenever this is going to be

Well that is where Wrobel is completely off point. Magicka builds don't want to hit as hard as stamina builds, they just want a way of surviving it when it comes to PvP.

Uhm yes, that's what we want We want to hit harder, to be able to deal with opponents in pvp.
Because right now, it's very hard to kill as a magicka build in the current meta.

You can do what most of us "Smart'ish" Magicka players have done. Roll a magplar build a hybrid house/dot build in 5xlight impen, and either 2xheavy or 1x heavy 1x Medium with undaunted 9. I'm starting to find alot of the players who gave up on Magicka, bow down, and sold out to Stamina because it is just so easy mode. However I find it funny when these players send me hate mail about being a Magicka Templar because I'm not completely brain dead and know how to play the game.

My only group of hints towards the magicka community in this age of Stamina Supremacy. Go Dark Elf Templar Vampire, then go the armor as listed above.

sirrmattus

Really all you have to look at is that almost all good players, in pvp, are running heavy armor, regardless of they resource pool. Stam and Magic are both running heavy armor and doing amazingly well, but the tanks that are running heavy armor are still doing ***. Ain't that some ***.

Joy_Division

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Eric Wrobel answered a few question on a stream chat yesterday.
He only said, that they will balance the ults base on our feedback and that they will adress magicka-stamina dps with the next update. Whenever this is going to be

Well that is where Wrobel is completely off point. Magicka builds don't want to hit as hard as stamina builds, they just want a way of surviving it when it comes to PvP.

Uhm yes, that's what we want We want to hit harder, to be able to deal with opponents in pvp.
Because right now, it's very hard to kill as a magicka build in the current meta.

You can do what most of us "Smart'ish" Magicka players have done. Roll a magplar build a hybrid house/dot build in 5xlight impen, and either 2xheavy or 1x heavy 1x Medium with undaunted 9. I'm starting to find alot of the players who gave up on Magicka, bow down, and sold out to Stamina because it is just so easy mode. However I find it funny when these players send me hate mail about being a Magicka Templar because I'm not completely brain dead and know how to play the game.

My only group of hints towards the magicka community in this age of Stamina Supremacy. Go Dark Elf Templar Vampire, then go the armor as listed above.

The thing is, templar is a magicka outlier because it is not dependent on a restoration staff and can do damage (without a destro staff) and heal at the same time like stam.

It is strong, but that's because it's a templar rather than because it's magic.

That's why so many magicka players are using them

thankyourat

Really if they just nerf stamina healing and reduce magicka weakness to snares and knockdowns the game would be pretty balanced. maybe in the light armor passives magicka can get some sort of cc immunity so we can't be cc'd every 6 seconds

GreenSoup2HoT

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue

Stealth burst wouldnt even be an issue if people slotted Radiant Mage Light. People are to consumed with there 1v1/X builds that they refuse to slot it.

Every magicka build in game that uses inner light could sacrifice 5% magicka to prevent 50% of stealth burst and prevent the stun aswell. Yet people still complain about gankers.

Rogues will always be cancer regardless of the MMO you play but that doesnt mean they shouldnt exist.

Like you said, without gankers we would have tanks everywhere. We need roles like this to even out the balance of power.

Velidrith is overperforming though just to be clear on burst sets. I used Viper back in the v14 days and nobody complained.

I ritualistically been carrying Radiant Mage Light in Cyrodiil since DB dlc. I usually watch those I'm grouped with then chase rabbits down get stealth ganked. While I usually survives long enough to get a heal of two in Azure's Star. The only people that have been able to burst me down in Azure's Star these days are the gankers that seems can still CC me from stealth with my Radiant Mage Light and still manage to hit me with 15k - 16k INCAPs while I'm in Azure Star with 5 pieces Impen on.But I think those are dued to cheat engine.

Radiant Mage Light only protects you from the "stealth stun". You are still susceptible to any follow up cc after. In your case Incap was that follow up stun. There is a 0.5 second window in which all attacks stun and critically hit while attacking from stealth. So when the person who killed you used there combo and noticed you did not die or get cc'd.. he/she then cc'd you and followed up with another attack to finish the job. It just so happens that Incap does both damage and cc's you which can be devastating (it is the Assassination Ultimate after all).

Radiant Mage Light is not a 100% guarantee to protect you from gankers. I would suggest using Immovability potions. As soon as you get hit by a ganker use that potion immediately and you can start your counter-attack, heal, etc. If you do not, your going to get cc'd and receive another beating.. most likely killing you.

Radiant Mage Light is hit or miss sometimes. It can be a live saver or set you up for failure and become worthless to you because of follow up cc's. It really depends the type of ganker also. Radiant Mage Light will save you 100% of the time against a Sniper bow style ganker or Wrecking Blow ganker. Both of these types of ganking styles relie heavily on that initial hit which gets reduced by 50% by R.M.L, however that doesn't mean the fights over either.

You just gotta be faster and more aware to prevent these things. Even with Radiant Mage Light if a ganker engages on you, that ganker already has the upper hand so you gotta be on your "A game".

I personally don't think this was a cheat engine issue but for all i know it could of been. I don't know how bad PC really is, i am a console player so im safe from cheat engine.

GreenSoup2HoT

Dracane wrote: »

Eric Wrobel answered a few question on a stream chat yesterday.
He only said, that they will balance the ults base on our feedback and that they will adress magicka-stamina dps with the next update. Whenever this is going to be

How to address the stamina vs magicka dps problem. Nerf Maelstrom Bow and Dagger/Axe. Done. Next

melloni_aleb16_ESO

Dracane wrote: »

Another point is the huge imbalance between light armor and other armors, who provide more damage, damage mitigation and sustain.

Surely some passive of LA should be changed..but actually the changing of the Heavy armour has canceled the usefulness of medium armor. I have all class in stam version ..
Perhaps only the Nb still draws utility from medium , but sorc stam ,stamplar and Dk stam ( especially with Black rose set ) improve in heavy ( i have a sorc stam in HA with dark deal It is almost incommentabile ..).
People ( crying ) have requested the Heavy armour useful , ZeniMax as usual is not able to balance , now 80% of stamina is heavy , 20% are in medium ( nb? ) .
With these changes, the difference between LA and HA is even more accentuated , Stamina class have decent sustain in heavy a. , high damage and good mitigation.
The solution to balancing are not the "feedback"of PEOPLE ( as it supports wrobel for new ultimate ..) , because this people are the same people claiming a buff for HA .. , and now they are the same person to request a nerf for HA ..( see threads ).
The rules and the balance has to start from zenimax -.-


( Sets as the black rose totally destroy the game balance ,.. and to destroy the balance , if it ever existed, Zenimax already does without inserting new sets )

my 2 cent ( sorry for my bad english..isn't my first language )

Elara_Northwind

ThulsaDoomDC wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

either quit or reroll stam. My stam DK is already gearing out for beserking strike....

No... if you fall so do all the mDKs. Do not go my lord. Lol

I play magicka templar, but keep getting abuse from stamina people when I kill them saying that I am 'cheating' despite them doing more damage than I do, so... I am currently thinking about digging out my magicka DK. Will be weird for me, as a forever templar, which has always been my thing, through the good times and the bad, but if it will stop people abusing me whilst playing the game that I love and trying to have fun, it may need to be done.....

mook-eb16_ESO

I still want to see a magicka cc that cost magicka to cc break to address some balance between stam and magicka.

acw37162

Magica builds are very strong at the moment.

And

Magic builds are getting some very Interesting 5 piece sets and monster helms.

The twitch crowd and 1vX fanboys will continue to play stamina for various reasons and yes the 2H ultimate already needs a nerf and staff ultimates need a buff but last I checked this was all still on test and subject and to change.

Does that mean everything everyone thinks should be changed will he changed, no it does not but that is a good thing because a large number of people who ask "if ZOS even play the game" only look at the game through one lens. Some don't but most posters are very monochromatic in their view of things and more often then not just plain wrong.

Lord-Otto

Lol.
Nope.