So sick of being kicked from groups I'm done for now

wayfarerx

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

You can't even use max level gear yet, go get some CP rather than expecting others to carry you.

lol you think people need max-level gear to do non-vet dungeons? You think a scaled-up CP80 would need to be "carried" through a non-vet dungeon? Hell, there are only a couple of vet dungeons where I'd be even a little concerned about someone based on their amount of CP, let alone non-vet.

Personally no, I know I can solo dps those dungeons so I don't give a ***. But it is 100% reasonable for someone to expect a player to be properly leveled and geared to the level of the instance they are running.

So, like level 12 or 18 or whatever for normal Banished Cells or normal Darkshade?

There is no set level for it, the instance scales to the group lead so if the group lead is over 160 cp it will be scaled to 160.

Yeah, scaling is cool, but what would you consider "properly leveled and geared" for a normal dungeon?

The level the instance is scaled to.

So you're also not aware that the group finder scales up anyone who is below 160? So that they're effectively properly leveled and geared (assuming that they are decently geared for their actual level)?

No, it does not work like this.

First of all, if we are talking about really low levels (such as level 20 players), they will not have access to all skills that endgame players use in normal rotations. So you are playing with people who only have the first 3 skills unlocked in each skill line (if even that!) and also maybe not even morphed correctly (if morphed at all!).

Also, the scaling does not affect player skill. If you are talking about new players, no matter if the scaling gives them 30k HP, they will still repeatedly be one-shot by certain boss mechanics simply because they haven't learned how to play the game yet. Great example- first boss of Banished Cells normal- it does an *interruptible* one-shot cast (boss version of frost clench). If you interrupt, you don't die. If you don't interrupt and you are not the tank, you will die. New players will not interrupt and will repeatedly wipe. Great example- second boss in normal Blackheart Haven. This boss channels an attack that kills multiple people, but it can be interrupted. Groups repeatedly wipe here for the same reason.

Also, seriously? Properly geared before CP160? Yea.... no. Anyone before that level wears a hodgepodge of gear that is nowhere near properly geared.

Yes, bad players exist. Yes, newer players are more likely to be bad for the reasons you suggest. However, if you're not willing to help a few noobs learn to dodge and interrupt then frankly you have no business pugging. Join a guild and get a group of four 531s to do your random normals with. Let those of us with a modicum of patience have our LFG fun.

Miszou

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Because I don't think its unreasonable for a group to expect someone at that level, but like I said I didn't know it battle levels you. I do lots of dungeons, just not normals.

This actually explains a lot.

If people (even experienced people such as yourself) are unaware that the Group Finder battle-levels people up, then no wonder people are getting kicked for being "too low".

Bigevilpeter

I feel you man this sucks, i never do dungeon finder so i don't usually meet the low level people, but yeah honestly i wouldnt mind doing normal dungeons with them, but veteran...

i apologise dearly to them, but i ask them kindly to leave i don't kick them, wiping a lot on bosses and wasting so much time doing nothing is just too much for me.

for normal trials its ok to have one low level player.

getting to cp 160 is not that hard though, just a small amount of grinding and you'll get there and there are many cheap cp 160 sets out there, just grab some and you're good to go

Aurielle

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Also, seriously? Properly geared before CP160? Yea.... no. Anyone before that level wears a hodgepodge of gear that is nowhere near properly geared.

That's quite an assumption to make.

UrQuan

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

You can't even use max level gear yet, go get some CP rather than expecting others to carry you.

lol you think people need max-level gear to do non-vet dungeons? You think a scaled-up CP80 would need to be "carried" through a non-vet dungeon? Hell, there are only a couple of vet dungeons where I'd be even a little concerned about someone based on their amount of CP, let alone non-vet.

Personally no, I know I can solo dps those dungeons so I don't give a ***. But it is 100% reasonable for someone to expect a player to be properly leveled and geared to the level of the instance they are running.

So, like level 12 or 18 or whatever for normal Banished Cells or normal Darkshade?

There is no set level for it, the instance scales to the group lead so if the group lead is over 160 cp it will be scaled to 160.

Yeah, scaling is cool, but what would you consider "properly leveled and geared" for a normal dungeon?

The level the instance is scaled to.

So you're also not aware that the group finder scales up anyone who is below 160? So that they're effectively properly leveled and geared (assuming that they are decently geared for their actual level)?

No, it does not work like this.

Yes, it absolutely does.

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

First of all, if we are talking about really low levels (such as level 20 players), they will not have access to all skills that endgame players use in normal rotations. So you are playing with people who only have the first 3 skills unlocked in each skill line (if even that!) and also maybe not even morphed correctly (if morphed at all!).

Which is exactly why the scaling gives them higher stats than they would have if they were actually max-level. To compensate for this. It doesn't fully make up for it, but for anything other than endgame content it's more than sufficient. For non-vet group dungeons (and remember, that's what we're talking about here) it works absolutely fine.

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

[Also, the scaling does not affect player skill. If you are talking about new players, no matter if the scaling gives them 30k HP, they will still repeatedly be one-shot by certain boss mechanics simply because they haven't learned how to play the game yet. Great example- first boss of Banished Cells normal- it does an *interruptible* one-shot cast (boss version of frost clench). If you interrupt, you don't die. If you don't interrupt and you are not the tank, you will die. New players will not interrupt and will repeatedly wipe. Great example- second boss in normal Blackheart Haven. This boss channels an attack that kills multiple people, but it can be interrupted. Groups repeatedly wipe here for the same reason.

lolwut
Level/CP != skill
Talking about player skill is completely 100% irrelevant to scaling. There are plenty of terribly unskilled CP531s out there (most of the terrible max-level players I've met have been the ones that just found a grind spot to get to max level), and there are plenty of skilled low-levels out there. You see both skilled and unskilled players at all points on the progression. Thinking that CP531 means that the player is skilled while CP80 means that the player is unskilled is, frankly, stupid.

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

[Also, seriously? Properly geared before CP160? Yea.... no. Anyone before that level wears a hodgepodge of gear that is nowhere near properly geared.

lol yeah OK, maybe you... I know that right from when I first managed to learn 2 traits on things shortly after PC launch, I've always used full item sets of blue quality or better, from about level 10 on up to max level. Crafted sets are more than sufficient to be properly geared for non-vet dungeons, and the only people who don't seem to use them are usually the people who just grind and don't do dungeons anyway.

Hallothiel

One of the reasons I am wary of doing dungeons etc is because although I have oodles of cp I am fully aware that my experience & knowledge of dungeon mechanics is abysmal so I would be rather bad - which is not necessarily what may be expected from me at first glance....

So cp definitely not everything.

And the fact you are penalised for being kicked is just silly.

Milicent

Oh well, CP doesn't matter to me, if a group i'm in fails because a low-level toon, then i leave, i never kick because they are new players, they aren't doing anything wrong they are just new.

and if someone in the group starts a vote to kick someone, i always, always leave.

Soleya

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

No, it does not work like this.

First of all, if we are talking about really low levels (such as level 20 players), they will not have access to all skills that endgame players use in normal rotations. So you are playing with people who only have the first 3 skills unlocked in each skill line (if even that!) and also maybe not even morphed correctly (if morphed at all!).

Also, the scaling does not affect player skill. If you are talking about new players, no matter if the scaling gives them 30k HP, they will still repeatedly be one-shot by certain boss mechanics simply because they haven't learned how to play the game yet. Great example- first boss of Banished Cells normal- it does an *interruptible* one-shot cast (boss version of frost clench). If you interrupt, you don't die. If you don't interrupt and you are not the tank, you will die. New players will not interrupt and will repeatedly wipe. Great example- second boss in normal Blackheart Haven. This boss channels an attack that kills multiple people, but it can be interrupted. Groups repeatedly wipe here for the same reason.

Also, seriously? Properly geared before CP160? Yea.... no. Anyone before that level wears a hodgepodge of gear that is nowhere near properly geared.

First off at mid level 20's, my healer could pull 15k dps and 15k hps easily when battle leveled. And that's without RD to use. first 3 skills in each class tree is really all you need in most cases to easily finish any non vet dungeon.

Also, low level doesn't mean new player, many times people make a new character and are extremely experienced.

Lastly, all my characters get full set gear at level 10, 20, 30, and 40. So your last assumption is just plain wrong.

As for the one shot mechanics. Remember when you first did the dungeon and were killed by the one shots? Then you learned and next time you didn't stand in red, or you interrupted. A few deaths in a dungeon run helps people learn what to do and what not to do.

SHADOW2KK

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Wish PC had a built in voice channel...

Um nope, had that crap with Battlefield 3 and many hate it, plenty of voip progams out there, like TS3, Skype, Vent, the list goes on, thats what we use.

Deathgiggle

Balticthunder wrote: »

Deathgiggle wrote: »

I came from playing WoW since day one of its release and I raided hardcore for 7 of those years. My wife and I were in a World ranked guild and I was #3 Warlock in the world so I know all about real hard work in a game. We took a year off work to spend 14 hours a day playing WoW, but we were sponsored so it wasn't too bad. We raided from 5pm-1a.m. nightly and many times on new content my guild made us stay all night until we defeated a boss or instance because to stay ranked we had to beat out other guilds doing the same thing. After 7 years my wife was burnt out and decided to leave to go back to school. I stayed playing for about another 6 months and then decided to leave as well because without her it just wasn't fun anymore.

C'mon, you're bragging of how good you was, went through all the hardships and know how it is, and yet you are complaining about few kicks from the random groups!

So many people still thinks that more CP magically makes them good, while in dungeons they still struggle and cant do a ***.

The point was not to brag but to try and make people realize that not every low CP level player is a scrub who doesn't know anything. I sat down and read the strats to all the dungeons and even made notes in a text file on my phone for the really hard bosses. Some people do go into a group prepared but to be kicked out without even being given a chance and then having to face a 15 minute penalty is not really fair.
If you wanna kick me for a CP500+ player that's is fine, just don't penalize me with a 15 minute time out period when my time these days is very precious.

How about this solution? If you go afk for longer than 60 seconds or you go offline, then when they kick you the penalty is applied to your account. If your not afk and your not offline, then when they kick you there is no penalty? Would that work for people? That way your still punishing people for holding you up but not someone who just isn't up to the level you desire.

If a guy is say CP 120 and he is in a Vet dungeon and your dying on a boss cause his DPS ain't up to snuff and you kick him, should he still be penalized cause he is low DPS? He is just trying to play the game and enjoy content like you are. I think if he gets kicked he doesn't deserve to get a double penalty by having to sit out of another run for 15 minutes. Same goes with normal dungeons, if their DPS is too low and they can't handle it, then kick them if you want but don't give them a time out on top of it.

SolarCat02

Deathgiggle wrote: »

Balticthunder wrote: »

Deathgiggle wrote: »

I came from playing WoW since day one of its release and I raided hardcore for 7 of those years. My wife and I were in a World ranked guild and I was #3 Warlock in the world so I know all about real hard work in a game. We took a year off work to spend 14 hours a day playing WoW, but we were sponsored so it wasn't too bad. We raided from 5pm-1a.m. nightly and many times on new content my guild made us stay all night until we defeated a boss or instance because to stay ranked we had to beat out other guilds doing the same thing. After 7 years my wife was burnt out and decided to leave to go back to school. I stayed playing for about another 6 months and then decided to leave as well because without her it just wasn't fun anymore.

C'mon, you're bragging of how good you was, went through all the hardships and know how it is, and yet you are complaining about few kicks from the random groups!

So many people still thinks that more CP magically makes them good, while in dungeons they still struggle and cant do a ***.

The point was not to brag but to try and make people realize that not every low CP level player is a scrub who doesn't know anything. I sat down and read the strats to all the dungeons and even made notes in a text file on my phone for the really hard bosses. Some people do go into a group prepared but to be kicked out without even being given a chance and then having to face a 15 minute penalty is not really fair.
If you wanna kick me for a CP500+ player that's is fine, just don't penalize me with a 15 minute time out period when my time these days is very precious.

How about this solution? If you go afk for longer than 60 seconds or you go offline, then when they kick you the penalty is applied to your account. If your not afk and your not offline, then when they kick you there is no penalty? Would that work for people? That way your still punishing people for holding you up but not someone who just isn't up to the level you desire.

If a guy is say CP 120 and he is in a Vet dungeon and your dying on a boss cause his DPS ain't up to snuff and you kick him, should he still be penalized cause he is low DPS? He is just trying to play the game and enjoy content like you are. I think if he gets kicked he doesn't deserve to get a double penalty by having to sit out of another run for 15 minutes. Same goes with normal dungeons, if their DPS is too low and they can't handle it, then kick them if you want but don't give them a time out on top of it.

By the time you realize his DPS is too low you have probably already spent most of those 15 minutes in the dungeon.

The timer starts ticking when the group is created, not when someone leaves/gets kicked. So in this case, any penalty would be minimal. If any of the timer still remains, it's probably just enough to repair gear before queuing again.

Bryanonymous

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Wish PC had a built in voice channel...

Um nope, had that crap with Battlefield 3 and many hate it, plenty of voip progams out there, like TS3, Skype, Vent, the list goes on, thats what we use.

Ugh, hate this kind of generic response. So because YOU would hate it, no one else should have the option. Yes, third party tools are available, in fact I have TS and Skype, but that's not the point. Players are far more likely to voice chat if they don't have to exchange third party IP information and leave their game window to open a third party tool. How often do random pugs voice chat on PC? Never. And seriously, Battlefeild? Grand Theft Auto 5 has built in voice chat and no one complains. Anecdotal opinion has very little relevance.

Antianara

The timer starts ticking when the group is created, not when someone leaves/gets kicked. So in this case, any penalty would be minimal. If any of the timer still remains, it's probably just enough to repair gear before queuing again.

You appear to be missing something giant here. You are VTK by some *** before the run starts. You don't just have a cooldown you have another hour on top of that to start at the beginning of the q'ing system again...

Humatiel

So I am not sure when Pugging became Pugging + helping new players but when I join a dungeon my thoughts are not "let me type out all mechanics always". You're new great got it good for you, I can handle bad and not perma dead but perma dead I'll leave you that way so you can watch and learn.

Wolfshead

ZoS should change that the person get kick get the penalty the change so the group that kick people get penalty if the have not start yet under dungeon run there should not be penalty at all if the kick person but if person leave that person should get penalty.

This system ZoS atm are punish wrong people why should i get penalty for get kick for other in group is assshold??

Deathgiggle

Thanks for all the comments be they positive or negative! At least it got people talking about it and even though it won't solve the problem it made me feel better that so many cared to take a minute out of their day to give their opinion. I received many offers to run me through content and I'm very appreciative but my goal was never to be carried. To me it takes the fun out of the game when I get some high level friends to just walk me through stuff as I tag behind and loot the dead. I want to be on that front line with my staff held high and fire shooting from the business end! I want to dodge and roll, pop a heal, move move move and dps dps dps, rinse and repeat

Thanks again and see you in game!

kaotikross

Yep. This happens to me too, a lot, and it's not like I'm not in there doing my part, i mean, I'm on the main bosses or wherever I need to be like glue, it's not like I'm hiding in the foyer or behind a column or something. It doesn't really *** me off except last night, 3/4 of the way through a dungeon, I'm using a 2x experience scroll, and boom, the group kicks me. That hurt. I admit I don't know many of these dungeons, I'm less than a month in, but I've beat every Dark Souls, it's not like I'm a noob or something to these games. Just because i'd rather actually DO the quest lines than mindlessly farm Dolmans for quick levels doesn't mean I'm not valuable.
UPDATE: Joined a group full of lower levels tonight, they put real heart into it, we perservered and we did it. I was level 50 and the "Veteran/Old Hand" This is the way it SHOULD be. I gave them everything I got from the Bosses.. if you want to Lead, set the Example.

Sausage

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I'm sorry you get kicked from groups . That's no fun .

Pugs should be pugs, no leader, no vote-kick whatsoever. If people are over sensitive over groups they can join to a Guild and make their dream group. Dont mix elitist with non-elitist, nuff said. This is by far the best direction Zen can take.

Taternater

What's the time limit before a thread becomes necro status?

Anyway, go into pugs expecting the worst always. Unless you're a cp infinite elitist, then you'll probably be fine.

Horowonnoe

How i do love these threads.

Sovaso

lmao.
And yes I understand those guys, because no one like plays with noobs.

Cpt_Teemo

Special_XYZ wrote: »

The fact that people kicked from the group receive a penalty is mind boggling. It should only be for those who leave the group. I thought this would be obvious to ZOS.

Exactly things need to be done about this, if you get auto kicked or if someone disbands the group as soon as the que pops then we shouldn't get the 15 min leave timer

Blackbird_V

Logic of 561's+ - "LFM DD CP500+ fast runs"

When in reality - I've seen loads of cp 561 be clueless about the most obvious stuff in dungeons and do little to no damage. Not to mention if you queue a dungeon and you're under CP500 you get a damage buff. That, to me, mkaes it a faster run that 60+ more points into CP that most people don't know what to put it in.

Yday I had a DD CP561 max out melee weapon expert, all 100 points... as a magicka build. I mean come on he was using TBS...


Most people are ignorant, arrogant, think they know it all and think they're at the top because they're at level cap. I've seen CP 80's deal x3 more damage than CP 561's.

Thank God for new queue system next update.

Horowonnoe

Taternater wrote: »

What's the time limit before a thread becomes necro status?

Anyway, go into pugs expecting the worst always. Unless you're a cp infinite elitist, then you'll probably be fine.

I hope never?
And with pugs, you need to go into them with a mindset of being able to carry the pug. If you can't carry your pug, then don't pug. After all, pugs are just cute small dogs and don't weigh that much and should be possible to be carried

Taternater

Horowonnoe wrote: »

Taternater wrote: »

What's the time limit before a thread becomes necro status?

Anyway, go into pugs expecting the worst always. Unless you're a cp infinite elitist, then you'll probably be fine.

I hope never?
And with pugs, you need to go into them with a mindset of being able to carry the pug. If you can't carry your pug, then don't pug. After all, pugs are just cute small dogs and don't weigh that much and should be possible to be carried

Silly person, I was talking about the lead singer of the Dixie Chicks. Compare a picture of her to a picture of a pug dog.

BlackEar

If high CP can't handle low levels in normal dungeons they shouldn't run it ^_^. I am a DPS and I queue as tank for the normal dungeons because I know I can carry it by myself. The low levels don't get kicked and get a smooth run and I get instant queued! Win-win.

K4RMA

well many people like to do pledges in 15 minutes rather than 45 so...

Keep_Door

Get more champion points or make your own group.

Cpt_Teemo

K4RMA wrote: »

well many people like to do pledges in 15 minutes rather than 45 so...

That's kind of ironic too cause the amount of time they keep booting lowbies that join, they would have spent over that 45 mins ha.

Sovaso

Stop posting crap like this you pathetic moaners!
Gosh! Give me a break!