Official Discussion Thread for Dueling

OMA

@ZOS_GinaBruno - Check out the dueling music video I made.

The dueling looks awesome. I've only been in 2 duels and was shown how horrible I am at pvp. I found the toggle to decline dueling automatically. I think it is fun though but i will be needing lots of dueling practice. So also found the Arena outside of Wayrest in Stormhaven and I think that's a great idea. I am curious if there is going to be some sort of questing there due to some of the names of the NPC's leading me to believe there will be. Will there be dueling dailies or rewards or events of some sort? I was there today and it was filled with some well practiced individuals dueling. There might have been even a few twitch streamers in there. So I compiled a video of the time I spent there today into about an 8-9 minute musical showcase of the Dueling at the Arena.

https://youtu.be/Y8wOnYj6YG4

Schemering

i like the dueling idea but the guards dont attack dueling people in cities. It doesnt look like a policed city when there are people dueling but a petty theft will draw guards attention and killing an npc citizen makes them really angry.

And like stated by @Ayantir make arenas for dueling that woul be much much more realistic

kaithuzar

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

We love the fact that we can now duel; thank you.
With that being said, there is an interesting issue we would like your assistance with tackling.

Players will attempt to organize their own dueling tournaments now & with that there will indeed be prizes in game by those hosting the tournament.
There is a state of "un-fairness" that certain players will know whether the person they are up next against will re-spec their champion points to defend specifically against their next opponent. They may even swap skills or gear to specifically counter the person they will be fighting next in the tournament.
It is impossible for others to determine whether or not a player is doing this & therefore we would ask for an instanced area where gear, champion points, & possibly even skills are locked from being changed upon entering.

There is no point or skill involved with coming up with different builds to specifically counter other players/classes. The goal of most of us, has been to create a unique build that we can successfully play in any scenario & allow us to win based on skill rather than "hard counters of specific builds".

altemriel

kaithuzar wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

We love the fact that we can now duel; thank you.
With that being said, there is an interesting issue we would like your assistance with tackling.

Players will attempt to organize their own dueling tournaments now & with that there will indeed be prizes in game by those hosting the tournament.
There is a state of "un-fairness" that certain players will know whether the person they are up next against will re-spec their champion points to defend specifically against their next opponent. They may even swap skills or gear to specifically counter the person they will be fighting next in the tournament.
It is impossible for others to determine whether or not a player is doing this & therefore we would ask for an instanced area where gear, champion points, & possibly even skills are locked from being changed upon entering.

There is no point or skill involved with coming up with different builds to specifically counter other players/classes. The goal of most of us, has been to create a unique build that we can successfully play in any scenario & allow us to win based on skill rather than "hard counters of specific builds".

that would be nice, "once you enter, you can not swap anything", I agree!!

Tandor

The desire to create a level playing field in duels, whether by disabling CPs or preventing participants from swapping skills or gear etc, is a good reason to restrict dueling to purpose-made arenas. That way a ring-fence can be put around the arena within which such rules can be more easily implemented.

bikerangelo

Tandor wrote: »

The desire to create a level playing field in duels, whether by disabling CPs or preventing participants from swapping skills or gear etc, is a good reason to restrict dueling to purpose-made arenas. That way a ring-fence can be put around the arena within which such rules can be more easily implemented.

The idea of a level playing field stops at the imbalance between the classes and magic vs. stamina. I appreciate the freedom the devs are giving the players with regards to duels. Most of my time in game is spent crafting gear for other people and helping them understand their builds and playstyles. Thanks to one tamriel and dueling, now I can do this anywhere, regardless of faction or player level.

The super competitive dueling guilds will host their events in the Hammerdeath arena and other places with the least amount of lag. As for "immersion," what's to stop any two players from interrupting an RP session or run around spamming skills in a city already? This is a multiplayer game after all. Plus, it's hard to read past your distaste for pvp in general with your multiple excuses for why dueling should be restricted to cage fights on the outskirts of the least populated zones.

kaithuzar wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

We love the fact that we can now duel; thank you.
With that being said, there is an interesting issue we would like your assistance with tackling.

Players will attempt to organize their own dueling tournaments now & with that there will indeed be prizes in game by those hosting the tournament.
There is a state of "un-fairness" that certain players will know whether the person they are up next against will re-spec their champion points to defend specifically against their next opponent. They may even swap skills or gear to specifically counter the person they will be fighting next in the tournament.
It is impossible for others to determine whether or not a player is doing this & therefore we would ask for an instanced area where gear, champion points, & possibly even skills are locked from being changed upon entering.

There is no point or skill involved with coming up with different builds to specifically counter other players/classes. The goal of most of us, has been to create a unique build that we can successfully play in any scenario & allow us to win based on skill rather than "hard counters of specific builds".

This was brought up during the PAX West conference, where Wheeler said that they wanted to give the players and the fight clubs as much freedom as possible, allowing those fight clubs to set up their own rule sets and regulations. You've got to give them credit for respecting the already established systems created by the player base.

Daraugh

Please no duels in towns. Outside the city gates is close to wayshrines and merchants. I understand duelists want to be seen, but I want to be able to see the guild kiosks, merchants, crafting areas, quest givers and dye stations.

CromulentForumID

Mojmir wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

With the discussion over dueling in towns, it didn't take long for this thread to turn into yet another illustration of why PvP and PvE should be kept separate. The two playstyles really are very different and with arenas now set up for those wanting to duel there is simply no need for dueling to be enabled in towns where it will cause lag and immersion problems for everyone else.

Dueling is immersive.

Dueling is immersive in towns if the people dueling are arrested as soon as they are done. I mean, two people in open combat in a city? And when you are done you just shrug and go about your day?

I am not sure you can argue for how immersive dueling is unless you are standing in some kind of arena.

I think you mean to say dueling makes things more lively, or active, or busy. Immersive? I need to be convinced

scorpiodog

BRogueNZ wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Morbash wrote: »

I disagree. Disallowing certain player interactions based on because "there's 'better' places to duel" or because "you don't need to duel where you want to duel" hardly counts as an argument.

I personally like the ability to duel anywhere in the game. It adds a whole new level of liveliness to the game and makes my game much more immersive.

Agree.

This is One Tamriel. This is not "One Tamriel Except You Can't Duel in Towns Because Other Players Want To Be At Peace When At The Crafting Station".

Your talking about paying customers though, I could run around in both your faces the entire duel is that ok too?

You could also just drop an ultimate or spam other visual skills, or even the cute achievements visual effects. If you have three people doing that the duelers might get confused as heck.

Daraugh

scorpiodog wrote: »

BRogueNZ wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Morbash wrote: »

I disagree. Disallowing certain player interactions based on because "there's 'better' places to duel" or because "you don't need to duel where you want to duel" hardly counts as an argument.

I personally like the ability to duel anywhere in the game. It adds a whole new level of liveliness to the game and makes my game much more immersive.

Agree.

This is One Tamriel. This is not "One Tamriel Except You Can't Duel in Towns Because Other Players Want To Be At Peace When At The Crafting Station".

Your talking about paying customers though, I could run around in both your faces the entire duel is that ok too?

You could also just drop an ultimate or spam other visual skills, or even the cute achievements visual effects. If you have three people doing that the duelers might get confused as heck.

And I have no doubt that will happen. Sorc pets, vanity pets, mounts, skill spamming, all of the things that any player can do to troll a duel and people still want them in towns? It's lose-lose for everyone.

Elara_Northwind

The only issue I found with duelling is the people I had to endure. I was playing my Templar (as a cp 300 template) and I killed somebody who had exactly 1968 health left today, with RD. When I killed them, they proceeded to target me in zone chat, saying that I was an RD spammer, and a 'perma blocker'. I am magicka, and cannot perma block, I actually save my stamina allot in duels for dodge rolling, I may have blocked his ulti but.... Is that against the rules

So, I killed some guy with my beam when he had less than 2k health left, and had about 3 guys bullying me in zone for ages afterwards... So my only worry with the duelling is that it is going to promote more hate like the hate I was shown today for using my class skills when asked to duel somebody. Some people are immature and cry when they loose, creating excuses to make themselves feel better and making other people feel bad because they don't have the maturity level to handle loss, so I would suggest that perhaps you have a second arena that does not allow petty children into it

Seri

CromulentForumID wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

With the discussion over dueling in towns, it didn't take long for this thread to turn into yet another illustration of why PvP and PvE should be kept separate. The two playstyles really are very different and with arenas now set up for those wanting to duel there is simply no need for dueling to be enabled in towns where it will cause lag and immersion problems for everyone else.

Dueling is immersive.

Dueling is immersive in towns if the people dueling are arrested as soon as they are done. I mean, two people in open combat in a city? And when you are done you just shrug and go about your day?

I am not sure you can argue for how immersive dueling is unless you are standing in some kind of arena.

I think you mean to say dueling makes things more lively, or active, or busy. Immersive? I need to be convinced

FYI, NPCs fist-fight near the center of Anvil outside a pub. I'm sure they would have used spells too but they were drunk. Also there's the NPCs bullying other NPCs in Stormhaven. Some NPCs full-on duel with spells n things out in the open overworld areas as well - definitely not in an arena.

VaxtinTheWolf

I'm not on the PTS, but I believe City/Town dueling should be disabled around the area, and when a duel starts you are provided maximum ultimate, and when the duel is over, all ultimate progression is wiped.

arkansas_ESO

k9mouse wrote: »

PVP'ers duel outside the city gates
OR
In Town Dueling = I do not want any type of dueling game.

The choice is simple.

Do I have to start reporting players for hassling people who are trying to do questing, RP'ing, or go shopping in towns?

Are you seriously threatening to start reporting players for having the gall to duel in the same area that you're RPing in? Calm down, people already spam skills in towns already, your immersion can take the hit.

Tarrin

Dueling in cities is a crime? Yeah, i agree.

I`ll fight you, Athos, at 12 o`clock behind the chapel (abbey)!

Alpharos7

I am not on the PTS, and although I am excited by the prospect of dueling, I have a major concern:

Is dueling allowed in major cities? And if so, is it having any effect on lag in these zones? I am concerned that dueling in major cities would cause even more lag. Perhaps those on the PTS can shed some light on this, although I am sure a lot of people, like me do not use the PTS (I am on console), and as such, testing may not be accurate. Besides, is dueling really safe inside a large tree?

Tandor

Interesting that this thread has gone quiet in terms of feedback to actual dueling on the PTS. After dueling was asked for by so many for so long it makes me question now it's happening whether it will turn out to be a seven day wonder.

JKorr

I tried the dueling yesterday.

It really has to be kept out of towns.

The other player and I tried it in Davon's watch, between the woodworking station and the smith. The radius of the circle was wide enough to bother anyone trying to do anything at the stations or just run through town. T

Then we went to Mournhold. We went into the flaming nix and downstairs to the cooking fire. While the other player made food, I invited him to duel; the autodecline worked; said you can't duel while crafting. As soon as he was finished, however, we had a duel in the basement kitchen. So dueling works inside buildings. I didn't think to ask him to come and try again in the bank, but I bet it works.

Any of the "LOOK AT ME I'M DUELING" players who want to make sure they are the center of attention will be able to interfere and disrupt other player's game time by dueling in buildings. Or even immediately outside the building. Two people started fighting on the steps of the flaming nix. Anyone stepping out of the door ended up in the middle of the fight.

ZOS_BrianWheeler

We are reading the feedback on Duels and discussing it. There will be some bug fixes in the next PTs as well.

barrrt

I agree that dueling in towns will get annoying, but there is a flip side to it… towns are some of the best locales for dueling with a lot of obstacles, etc. to deal with (try fighting on Stros M’Kai docks, for example, so much fun!).

I wonder if it would be possible to have a setting in the client not to render duelers and their abilities in the cities? This should help with FPS, immersion, etc. for those who’d rather ignore dueling in towns (I'd probably have that turned on most of the time myself, except when I want to duel).

dimensional

Leogon wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

Dueling in towns should not be allowed or illegal incurring a high bounty and making guards attack you instantly.

This doesn't make much sense to me. Dueling is most likely to take place where multiple players congregrate... which is in towns. I just spent 15 minutes dueling in Rawlkha, and the only reason it was possible is because there were lots of players standing around waiting to duel.

That's one of the reasons why they need to make duel arenas. Duel arenas would also prevent conflicts between PvErs and PvPers. Last night, I saw someone trolling someone else just because he/she didn't wanna duel. I knew this kinda stuff would happen and it's not even live yet. The last reason why they should keep dueling in duel arenas is because you can already see duels pretty much everywhere you go on the PTS so imagine when it's gonna go live. I enjoy dueling but when I wanna PvE, I wanna PvE, I don't wanna see duels everywhere I go. Yes, it's immersion breaking.

To me it's immersion breaking to not have the ability to duel people anytime I want in the wilderness. I'm all for this.

ManDraKE

You should be able to duel in open word, if i want to duel someone outside the arenas that will be really crowded, i should be able to do it. Just restrict towns, so we don't have a all scale war going on in the middle of the stormheaven market, but don't limit duels just to the arenas.

WhiteMage

I'll just put this here because it doesn't seem like many people have been talking about it enough: I would like there to be some way to duel without CP. I am of the mind that CP is very disruptive to the overall game, especially PvP, and...

Well, point is, I spent my CP from a PvE perspective and PvP in Azura's so that I don't have to respec CP all the time. As such, when introduced to a CP environment, the build has more regen than necessary and less damage and defenses relative to PvP CP spec players. That and I find PvP without CP much more fun.

As long as it is possible , somehow or somewhere, I will be satisfied. Please and thank you.

Tandor

ManDraKE wrote: »

You should be able to duel in open word, if i want to duel someone outside the arenas that will be really crowded, i should be able to do it. Just restrict towns, so we don't have a all scale war going on in the middle of the stormheaven market, but don't limit duels just to the arenas.

The problem is that people would then duel around wayshrines which would hit performance and be as intrusive as it would be in towns.

The number of people who want to go off to some quiet spot to duel in private is very small, most want to do it in full view of the world. They will therefore always choose the most populated places which is why it needs to be restricted to those places specifically designed for it, namely arenas.

Osteos

Alpharos7 wrote: »

I am not on the PTS, and although I am excited by the prospect of dueling, I have a major concern:

Is dueling allowed in major cities? And if so, is it having any effect on lag in these zones? I am concerned that dueling in major cities would cause even more lag. Perhaps those on the PTS can shed some light on this, although I am sure a lot of people, like me do not use the PTS (I am on console), and as such, testing may not be accurate. Besides, is dueling really safe inside a large tree?

I haven't noticed any lag in Wayrest near the wayshrine with multiple duels occurring at the same time.

Also the first day on the pts duels were very prominent, but they have tapered off. Most likely the first week of One Tamriel there will be a lot of duels going on just like in DB people were murdering npcs like crazy and now its less common.

sladen_eos

The dueling system is a great feature and after many hours on PTS my only suggestions are at the start of a duel:

• Ultimate should reset to 0
• Resource pools should fill up to maximum

Also a few ideas of possible additions:

• Group fights could be a great addition to the duel system, party leaders would have the option to challenge other party leaders to a group fight. Criteria would of course be that parties are the same size and perhaps limited to 2v2 or 3v3.
• Daily quests at the Hammerdeath arena, for example 'Win X amount of duels'.

Strider_Roshin

WhiteMage wrote: »

I'll just put this here because it doesn't seem like many people have been talking about it enough: I would like there to be some way to duel without CP. I am of the mind that CP is very disruptive to the overall game, especially PvP, and...

Well, point is, I spent my CP from a PvE perspective and PvP in Azura's so that I don't have to respec CP all the time. As such, when introduced to a CP environment, the build has more regen than necessary and less damage and defenses relative to PvP CP spec players. That and I find PvP without CP much more fun.

As long as it is possible , somehow or somewhere, I will be satisfied. Please and thank you.

sladen_eos wrote: »

The dueling system is a great feature and after many hours on PTS my only suggestions are at the start of a duel:

• Ultimate should reset to 0
  
• Resource pools should fill up to maximum

Also a few ideas of possible additions:

• Group fights could be a great addition to the duel system, party leaders would have the option to challenge other party leaders to a group fight. Criteria would of course be that parties are the same size and perhaps limited to 2v2 or 3v3.
• Daily quests at the Hammerdeath arena, for example 'Win X amount of duels'.

This please!

leepalmer95

I like the way they've brought dueling at a time when dueling is at it's worst.

Rilmarshim

Still duels inside the towns?

Darlon

I'd rather see ultimate set to 1000 than to 0. (And then set to 0 when the duel ends )

That way everyone would have their ulti ready, and it wouldn't be an extra advantage for the person with the cheapest ultimate.