Which difficulty should the dungeons in Update 12 have?

Destruent

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I've stated my reasons. Scroll up, or is your short term memory that bad?

i read it. You want, that everyone can do those dungeons at the harder difficulty as daily or whatever. But they can also do the lower difficulty for the same loot.

i want:
- lower difficulty for pugs, newer players and so
- higher difficulty for those who don't want to faceroll it

keys for dails will be the same, loot will most likely be the same. what's the problem with it? i don't get it

you want:
- low difficulty for ??
- high difficulty for pugs, newer players which is faceroll easy like it is now

what's the point of a lower difficulty if the higher one is already super-easy?

You dont get it because you dont wanna get it. But for the last time. Then I'm leaving you to your hipster difficulty friends.

I want:

Minor difficulty increases and a restructuring of CP scaling in order to create better difficulty on that level, without shooting the experience in the foot.

A ''Elite" difficulty for the people who -do- vet trials, with legendary quality rewards as compensation.

That's it. No conspiracy to make the game noob friendly, no pug conspiracy, that stuffs there because -you want to see it-.

If you cant understand why I want these things, thats. Your. Problem. I will no longer try and save a lost cause.

So you want a difficulty like it is now (or a bit higher maybe) and a higher difficulty, but you chose the option that the harder version is as easy as the dungeons are now.
Same as i want, but unlike you, i chose the right answer in the survey

Doctordarkspawn

Difficulty similar to base game dungeons

Destruent wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I've stated my reasons. Scroll up, or is your short term memory that bad?

i read it. You want, that everyone can do those dungeons at the harder difficulty as daily or whatever. But they can also do the lower difficulty for the same loot.

i want:
- lower difficulty for pugs, newer players and so
- higher difficulty for those who don't want to faceroll it

keys for dails will be the same, loot will most likely be the same. what's the problem with it? i don't get it

you want:
- low difficulty for ??
- high difficulty for pugs, newer players which is faceroll easy like it is now

what's the point of a lower difficulty if the higher one is already super-easy?

You dont get it because you dont wanna get it. But for the last time. Then I'm leaving you to your hipster difficulty friends.

I want:

Minor difficulty increases and a restructuring of CP scaling in order to create better difficulty on that level, without shooting the experience in the foot.

A ''Elite" difficulty for the people who -do- vet trials, with legendary quality rewards as compensation.

That's it. No conspiracy to make the game noob friendly, no pug conspiracy, that stuffs there because -you want to see it-.

If you cant understand why I want these things, thats. Your. Problem. I will no longer try and save a lost cause.

So you want a difficulty like it is now (or a bit higher maybe) and a higher difficulty, but you chose the option that the harder version is as easy as the dungeons are now.
Same as i want, but unlike you, i chose the right answer in the survey

And unlike you, I go about it in a different way that wont needlessly give the hardcore crowd more ammo to shame the people that dont live up to their expectations. I still believe the third tier of difficulty is the best way to appease the hardcore crowd. Not completely screwing with the system.

And yes, I fully expect the hardcore crowd to use this as an excuse to shame others. I've seen it, I've posted an example of it I witnessed not two days ago in this thread on about page two.

And like I said. Slight bump In difficulty. I think the DLC dungeons are too big a jump, so. Lets not get so blind as to consider our positions unequivically right, please.

Destruent

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

And unlike you, I go about it in a different way that wont needlessly give the hardcore crowd more ammo to shame the people that dont live up to their expectations. I still believe the third tier of difficulty is the best way to appease the hardcore crowd. Not completely screwing with the system.

What does it has to do with shaming? i don't see anyone of us laugh at people who can't beat hard content. i just find it laughable if someone who doesn't put effort into it expects to beat everything easily and instead of trying to improve asks for nerfs. I also don't see how a third difficulty would help. The harder version doesn't need to be the hardest content ingame (and they aren't and won't be by far), just at a difficulty where you need to do the mechanics.
But tbh. i don't see that much difference between your and my expectations for the dungeons ( you just want a third tier difficulty which won't happen). you just chose the wrong answer and it therefore looks a bit weird to me.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

That's it. No conspiracy to make the game noob friendly, no pug conspiracy, that stuffs there because -you want to see it-. I want the CP system looked at, and I want the challenge focused in certain places, WITHOUT needlessly splitting hairs between dungeon versions for little to no reason.

If you cant understand why I want these things, thats. Your. Problem. I will no longer try and save a lost cause.

So you want a third tier difficulty but only one dungeon version/difficulty? i'm confused
This would mean (for me):
- dungeons -->
- trials --> hard

and therefore both groups only get half of the content instead of both groups get both content in their own difficulty how ZOS is hopefully giong to design it and how they did it with the old trials.

Doctordarkspawn

Difficulty similar to base game dungeons

Destruent wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

And unlike you, I go about it in a different way that wont needlessly give the hardcore crowd more ammo to shame the people that dont live up to their expectations. I still believe the third tier of difficulty is the best way to appease the hardcore crowd. Not completely screwing with the system.

What does it has to do with shaming? i don't see anyone of us laugh at people who can't beat hard content. i just find it laughable if someone who doesn't put effort into it expects to beat everything easily and instead of trying to improve asks for nerfs. I also don't see how a third difficulty would help. The harder version doesn't need to be the hardest content ingame (and they aren't and won't be by far), just at a difficulty where you need to do the mechanics.
But tbh. i don't see that much difference between your and my expectations for the dungeons ( you just want a third tier difficulty which won't happen). you just chose the wrong answer and it therefore looks a bit weird to me.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

That's it. No conspiracy to make the game noob friendly, no pug conspiracy, that stuffs there because -you want to see it-. I want the CP system looked at, and I want the challenge focused in certain places, WITHOUT needlessly splitting hairs between dungeon versions for little to no reason.

If you cant understand why I want these things, thats. Your. Problem. I will no longer try and save a lost cause.

So you want a third tier difficulty but only one dungeon version/difficulty? i'm confused
This would mean (for me):
- dungeons -->
- trials --> hard

and therefore both groups only get half of the content instead of both groups get both content in their own difficulty how ZOS is hopefully giong to design it and how they did it with the old trials.

To the first quote.

This is the example I posted on page two of this thread, and it happened two days ago around noon in DC NA zone.

---

"At the end of the day, this entire conversation can be summed up in, oddly enough, what happened yesterday with VICP with the pledge in zone.

Tank1: "Why the hell is no one doing the pledge it's so easy"

Me: "Probs because it's vICP. Most people find it annoying."

Tank1: "You (Censored for forums) *** stop playing this game if it's so hard for you"

The ammount of people that yelled and put me on ignore was unprecidented. People who haddn't been queueing. People who haddn't been looking for groups."

---

This is the type of person I keep talking about. And they exist, and they are plentifull. They take any excuse to stifle a discussion about difficulty by telling people they need to suck it the *** up, just like you walked in this thread to do. And if you agree with this exchange, then please. Say so. So I can dismiss you, and never speak to you ever again hopefully. Because I'd like to keep my sanity.

To the second quote.

What part of this is hard to understand?

Normal: Easy.

Veteran: What is currently on the live server

Elite: A simulation of base game, launch level dungeons. The difficulty of the dungeons, back when the game was first in beta and launch.

That is the distinction. Giving the hardcore players a elite difficulty with difficulty tailored to what many people have been asking for since the gradual bump down in difficulty.

Destruent

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

At first: i don't support anyone who ashames other bc they are not perfect regarding their gameplay. I try to help them usually, i only get a bit angry when they refuse to use tips and therefore only waste my time. Worst thing is, if they do so and then start crying for nerfs....but anyway, i'm sorry you have to meet such people like in the example on NA and i am sure, they are not as good as they claim. They usually only want someone who carries them through the dungeon.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

To the second quote.

What part of this is hard to understand?

Normal: Easy.

Veteran: What is currently on the live server

Elite: A simulation of base game, launch level dungeons. The difficulty of the dungeons, back when the game was first in beta and launch.

That is the distinction. Giving the hardcore players a elite difficulty with difficulty tailored to what many people have been asking for since the gradual bump down in difficulty.

We are only talking about the actual base-game dungeons. Bc this are the one who get an additional difficulty with the next update. Is there really a reason to add a lower dificulty for wayrest sewers, spindle, fungal grotto and so on (for both, vet and normal mode)?
This thread is NOT about vICP and vWGT which are sometimes hard for pugs.

Doctordarkspawn

Difficulty similar to base game dungeons

Destruent wrote: »

At first: i don't support anyone who ashames other bc they are not perfect regarding their gameplay. I try to help them usually, i only get a bit angry when they refuse to use tips and therefore only waste my time. Worst thing is, if they do so and then start crying for nerfs....but anyway, i'm sorry you have to meet such people like in the example on NA and i am sure, they are not as good as they claim. They usually only want someone who carries them through the dungeon.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

To the second quote.

What part of this is hard to understand?

Normal: Easy.

Veteran: What is currently on the live server

Elite: A simulation of base game, launch level dungeons. The difficulty of the dungeons, back when the game was first in beta and launch.

That is the distinction. Giving the hardcore players a elite difficulty with difficulty tailored to what many people have been asking for since the gradual bump down in difficulty.

We are only talking about the actual base-game dungeons. Bc this are the one who get an additional difficulty with the next update. Is there really a reason to add a lower dificulty for wayrest sewers, spindle, fungal grotto and so on (for both, vet and normal mode)?
This thread is NOT about vICP and vWGT which are sometimes hard for pugs.

The only time I mentioned ICP was in the quote detailing the sometimes toxic nature of those who want 'difficulty'.

The answer to the question "Is there a reason to add a lower difficulty" is usually the same as the reverse, "Is there a reason to add a higher difficulty". We allready have a lower difficulty. Do we need a higher difficulty?

I would say yes, if there is ever a person who does not want to mindlessly run through content, than giving them a difficulty mode specifically tailored to that, is worth it. It's worth adding to the base game dungeons, both tiers, Round one and round two (I'll call them that in order to be specific, with round one being normal on live, round two being vet on live), because if we're going to pander to the people who want difficulty, lets do it in such a complete way, that it's not going to need looked at again.

I just want to make sure, that the difficulty, of all tiers, for all audiences, have a place. And that those places do not interfere with any others. If we're gonna overhaul the system, lets do it so completely and with all audiences in mind, and do it right the first time, so that we never have to do this again. And I do not believe the system currently proposed does that. Hence why I dont want to lump everything on the DLC dungeons, hence my choice in the poll.

That said, I'm very glad you dont support the shaming of players who are willing to learn, but as you can understand repeated experiences with the subject have put me on edge whenever it comes up. I do apologize for the somewhat paranoid accusations.

Destruent

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

The answer to the question "Is there a reason to add a lower difficulty" is usually the same as the reverse, "Is there a reason to add a higher difficulty". We allready have a lower difficulty. Do we need a higher difficulty?

I think there would be a reason to add a lower difficulty if there is a reasonable amount of people who want that bc they can't complete the actual vet/normal modes (i like to exclude those few who just refuse to learn/improve bc i think it's unfair to spend ressources for people like this). But i don't think there are that many people...but i may be wrong.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

That said, I'm very glad you dont support the shaming of players who are willing to learn, but as you can understand repeated experiences with the subject have put me on edge whenever it comes up. I do apologize for the somewhat paranoid accusations.

You are welcome, discussions on forums can get really confusing. I'm glad we could sort that out
It's also possible, i misunderstood some things...english is not my native english, but i think it works well ^^

Doctordarkspawn

Difficulty similar to base game dungeons

Destruent wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

The answer to the question "Is there a reason to add a lower difficulty" is usually the same as the reverse, "Is there a reason to add a higher difficulty". We allready have a lower difficulty. Do we need a higher difficulty?

I think there would be a reason to add a lower difficulty if there is a reasonable amount of people who want that bc they can't complete the actual vet/normal modes (i like to exclude those few who just refuse to learn/improve bc i think it's unfair to spend ressources for people like this). But i don't think there are that many people...but i may be wrong.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

That said, I'm very glad you dont support the shaming of players who are willing to learn, but as you can understand repeated experiences with the subject have put me on edge whenever it comes up. I do apologize for the somewhat paranoid accusations.

You are welcome, discussions on forums can get really confusing. I'm glad we could sort that out
It's also possible, i misunderstood some things...english is not my native english, but i think it works well ^^

A discussion/arguement parting amicably on the forums? THE SKY IS FALLING!

But no seriously, yes there was some confusion but I'm glad it got ironed out.

Wifeaggro13

other

wolfninja101b14_ESO wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

wolfninja101b14_ESO wrote: »

so like vet City of Ash.

like City of ash before nerfs ? or now ? because now ... sorry but i don't find the difficulty you can do this dungeon at 2 man !

Are you one of those extreme hard-core PVEers? Hell if you find vWGT or vICP easy, then vCOA is a cake walk for ya. However, like most of us, we aren't hard-core PVEers but do like a challenge. vCoA is one of those.

Yes its fine to reduce the diffculty of old dungeons to the point that new players can that do not have the mechanics andunderstand the game that well. the issue is though you have 8 or 9 other dungeons in vet that are litterally so easy and unrewarding they are void of any players. you only have 2 dungeons that are challenging for the end game players with decent rewards, 2 that are a year old and only a mild challenge with garbage rewards . and 8 that they appeased a non existent player base that does not pay the bills. Listen you can Que in the DF and you will get is Vcos Vrom or Vicp. why because those are the dungeons the player base is playing. they are no Hardcore either this is the most casual friendly MMO ive ever played aside from WOW, the problem is there is to much solo content and not enough group.

The second problem is A lot of new players are still under the delusion that Zos gave you all this mix and match skill systems to build creative fun utility builds and the option to wear any gear on any class to make your fantasy hero. the didnt Its a god dang screw fest of one build for every class based on max DPs metric with very specific gear set ups. those last 4 dungeons require a a high DPS meta with a tank and a heal. Vrom and V cos are a bit funner because you can do them with out a high DPS metric if you have a decent tank a good healer and work as a team.

Destruent

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

The second problem is A lot of new players are still under the delusion that Zos gave you all this mix and match skill systems to build creative fun utility builds and the option to wear any gear on any class to make your fantasy hero. the didnt Its a god dang screw fest of one build for every class based on max DPs metric with very specific gear set ups. those last 4 dungeons require a a high DPS meta with a tank and a heal. Vrom and V cos are a bit funner because you can do them with out a high DPS metric if you have a decent tank a good healer and work as a team.

You don't need high DPS for vWGT/vICP...they got beaten with 2 DPS only doing light attacks on boss-fights...

Wifeaggro13

other

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I've stated my reasons. Scroll up, or is your short term memory that bad?

i read it. You want, that everyone can do those dungeons at the harder difficulty as daily or whatever. But they can also do the lower difficulty for the same loot.

i want:
- lower difficulty for pugs, newer players and so
- higher difficulty for those who don't want to faceroll it

keys for dails will be the same, loot will most likely be the same. what's the problem with it? i don't get it

you want:
- low difficulty for ??
- high difficulty for pugs, newer players which is faceroll easy like it is now

what's the point of a lower difficulty if the higher one is already super-easy?

You dont get it because you dont wanna get it. But for the last time. Then I'm leaving you to your hipster difficulty friends.

I want:

Minor difficulty increases and a restructuring of CP scaling in order to create better difficulty on that level, without shooting the experience in the foot. Because that's the true issue here, the ever rising CP is having a greater impact on the game than the designers know how to compensate for.

A ''Elite" difficulty for the people who -do- vet trials, with legendary quality rewards as compensation. So the designers can focus the challenges for those that -want- them, instead of trying to spread it even, and pleasing nobody.

That's it. No conspiracy to make the game noob friendly, no pug conspiracy, that stuffs there because -you want to see it-. I want the CP system looked at, and I want the challenge focused in certain places, WITHOUT needlessly splitting hairs between dungeon versions for little to no reason.

If you cant understand why I want these things, thats. Your. Problem. I will no longer try and save a lost cause.

Well because some end game players don't want to do 12 man runs . Truthfully the normal versions of the trials are easier then most of the vet dungeons. We need to have at the minimum of 6 Hard Veteran dungeons like a tad harder then Vcos or Vrom. You will have 10 others that tier up slightly to prepare people for the the last 6.

I agree CP is having a huge impact on the power creep. Why because it was a half ass attempt at making a AA system to extend the life of the game with out raising the level cap and introducing new abilities or morphs. Its even more ridiculous in PVP now that you have early adopters of the CP exploit when it was introduced with massive CP that were never banned from the game.

But your tone and the way your attacking the community that differs from your opinion is kind of baffling almost like your trying to get this discussion locked.

Doctordarkspawn

Difficulty similar to base game dungeons

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I've stated my reasons. Scroll up, or is your short term memory that bad?

i read it. You want, that everyone can do those dungeons at the harder difficulty as daily or whatever. But they can also do the lower difficulty for the same loot.

i want:
- lower difficulty for pugs, newer players and so
- higher difficulty for those who don't want to faceroll it

keys for dails will be the same, loot will most likely be the same. what's the problem with it? i don't get it

you want:
- low difficulty for ??
- high difficulty for pugs, newer players which is faceroll easy like it is now

what's the point of a lower difficulty if the higher one is already super-easy?

You dont get it because you dont wanna get it. But for the last time. Then I'm leaving you to your hipster difficulty friends.

I want:

Minor difficulty increases and a restructuring of CP scaling in order to create better difficulty on that level, without shooting the experience in the foot. Because that's the true issue here, the ever rising CP is having a greater impact on the game than the designers know how to compensate for.

A ''Elite" difficulty for the people who -do- vet trials, with legendary quality rewards as compensation. So the designers can focus the challenges for those that -want- them, instead of trying to spread it even, and pleasing nobody.

That's it. No conspiracy to make the game noob friendly, no pug conspiracy, that stuffs there because -you want to see it-. I want the CP system looked at, and I want the challenge focused in certain places, WITHOUT needlessly splitting hairs between dungeon versions for little to no reason.

If you cant understand why I want these things, thats. Your. Problem. I will no longer try and save a lost cause.

Well because some end game players don't want to do 12 man runs . Truthfully the normal versions of the trials are easier then most of the vet dungeons. We need to have at the minimum of 6 Hard Veteran dungeons like a tad harder then Vcos or Vrom. You will have 10 others that tier up slightly to prepare people for the the last 6.

I agree CP is having a huge impact on the power creep. Why because it was a half ass attempt at making a AA system to extend the life of the game with out raising the level cap and introducing new abilities or morphs. Its even more ridiculous in PVP now that you have early adopters of the CP exploit when it was introduced with massive CP that were never banned from the game.

But your tone and the way your attacking the community that differs from your opinion is kind of baffling almost like your trying to get this discussion locked.

Your coming back into the discussion a tad late, but the reason the tone got that way was because I had to sit there and repeat myself about four or five times to clarify the point. It gets frustraiting and I'm not going to defend how I got because this is one of those times where I had to go get a coffee, calm down, and shake my head at myself. However, everything I said -since- this quote I agree with in reguards to how the difficulty system needs done and how the CP system needs done.

Also, we are actually going to be seeing new abilities and morphs, the new weapon ultimates, but I do agree we simply need more class lines possibly, in order to fill the gaps in the system we currently have. ZOS has tried to hold back -lasting- change by adding more variables into the mix, something I find very interesting but ultimately does not seem to be working for them.

Wifeaggro13

other

Destruent wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

The second problem is A lot of new players are still under the delusion that Zos gave you all this mix and match skill systems to build creative fun utility builds and the option to wear any gear on any class to make your fantasy hero. the didnt Its a god dang screw fest of one build for every class based on max DPs metric with very specific gear set ups. those last 4 dungeons require a a high DPS meta with a tank and a heal. Vrom and V cos are a bit funner because you can do them with out a high DPS metric if you have a decent tank a good healer and work as a team.

You don't need high DPS for vWGT/vICP...they got beaten with 2 DPS only doing light attacks on boss-fights...

I beleive it for sure . I dont find them hard , I am a tank i dont really DPS much i dont like that role. Vwgt might give people proplems on the Atro becuase of pinion cordination. But when i got myLord warden retaliation was pre nerf. i just came back to game and helped some people get it. pffft the biggest problem with the road ZOS is walking is they do not have enough hard content to be reducing diffculty for the Churn population and giving the population core a very shallow pool to swim in.

Wifeaggro13

other

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I've stated my reasons. Scroll up, or is your short term memory that bad?

i read it. You want, that everyone can do those dungeons at the harder difficulty as daily or whatever. But they can also do the lower difficulty for the same loot.

i want:
- lower difficulty for pugs, newer players and so
- higher difficulty for those who don't want to faceroll it

keys for dails will be the same, loot will most likely be the same. what's the problem with it? i don't get it

you want:
- low difficulty for ??
- high difficulty for pugs, newer players which is faceroll easy like it is now

what's the point of a lower difficulty if the higher one is already super-easy?

You dont get it because you dont wanna get it. But for the last time. Then I'm leaving you to your hipster difficulty friends.

I want:

Minor difficulty increases and a restructuring of CP scaling in order to create better difficulty on that level, without shooting the experience in the foot. Because that's the true issue here, the ever rising CP is having a greater impact on the game than the designers know how to compensate for.

A ''Elite" difficulty for the people who -do- vet trials, with legendary quality rewards as compensation. So the designers can focus the challenges for those that -want- them, instead of trying to spread it even, and pleasing nobody.

That's it. No conspiracy to make the game noob friendly, no pug conspiracy, that stuffs there because -you want to see it-. I want the CP system looked at, and I want the challenge focused in certain places, WITHOUT needlessly splitting hairs between dungeon versions for little to no reason.

If you cant understand why I want these things, thats. Your. Problem. I will no longer try and save a lost cause.

Well because some end game players don't want to do 12 man runs . Truthfully the normal versions of the trials are easier then most of the vet dungeons. We need to have at the minimum of 6 Hard Veteran dungeons like a tad harder then Vcos or Vrom. You will have 10 others that tier up slightly to prepare people for the the last 6.

I agree CP is having a huge impact on the power creep. Why because it was a half ass attempt at making a AA system to extend the life of the game with out raising the level cap and introducing new abilities or morphs. Its even more ridiculous in PVP now that you have early adopters of the CP exploit when it was introduced with massive CP that were never banned from the game.

But your tone and the way your attacking the community that differs from your opinion is kind of baffling almost like your trying to get this discussion locked.

Your coming back into the discussion a tad late, but the reason the tone got that way was because I had to sit there and repeat myself about four or five times to clarify the point. It gets frustraiting and I'm not going to defend how I got because this is one of those times where I had to go get a coffee, calm down, and shake my head at myself. However, everything I said -since- this quote I agree with in reguards to how the difficulty system needs done and how the CP system needs done.

Also, we are actually going to be seeing new abilities and morphs, the new weapon ultimates, but I do agree we simply need more class lines possibly, in order to fill the gaps in the system we currently have. ZOS has tried to hold back -lasting- change by adding more variables into the mix, something I find very interesting but ultimately does not seem to be working for them.

It was lazy and cheaper for them to do it the way they did it. Ive not played an MMO that by its third year of development did not have a full fleshed out AA (not this incremental passive power creep made by zos) system at least a new class and one LVL cap in crease with twice the content Zos has released. I might add the recycled IC bundle was extremely greedy of them. they could have seperated that mount and skin and made more money by selling them indvidualy. Instead they pissed off thier player base that already bought the DLC to try and bilk them out of another 60 bucks

Wifeaggro13

other

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I've stated my reasons. Scroll up, or is your short term memory that bad?

i read it. You want, that everyone can do those dungeons at the harder difficulty as daily or whatever. But they can also do the lower difficulty for the same loot.

i want:
- lower difficulty for pugs, newer players and so
- higher difficulty for those who don't want to faceroll it

keys for dails will be the same, loot will most likely be the same. what's the problem with it? i don't get it

you want:
- low difficulty for ??
- high difficulty for pugs, newer players which is faceroll easy like it is now

what's the point of a lower difficulty if the higher one is already super-easy?

You dont get it because you dont wanna get it. But for the last time. Then I'm leaving you to your hipster difficulty friends.

I want:

Minor difficulty increases and a restructuring of CP scaling in order to create better difficulty on that level, without shooting the experience in the foot. Because that's the true issue here, the ever rising CP is having a greater impact on the game than the designers know how to compensate for.

A ''Elite" difficulty for the people who -do- vet trials, with legendary quality rewards as compensation. So the designers can focus the challenges for those that -want- them, instead of trying to spread it even, and pleasing nobody.

That's it. No conspiracy to make the game noob friendly, no pug conspiracy, that stuffs there because -you want to see it-. I want the CP system looked at, and I want the challenge focused in certain places, WITHOUT needlessly splitting hairs between dungeon versions for little to no reason.

If you cant understand why I want these things, thats. Your. Problem. I will no longer try and save a lost cause.

Well because some end game players don't want to do 12 man runs . Truthfully the normal versions of the trials are easier then most of the vet dungeons. We need to have at the minimum of 6 Hard Veteran dungeons like a tad harder then Vcos or Vrom. You will have 10 others that tier up slightly to prepare people for the the last 6.

I agree CP is having a huge impact on the power creep. Why because it was a half ass attempt at making a AA system to extend the life of the game with out raising the level cap and introducing new abilities or morphs. Its even more ridiculous in PVP now that you have early adopters of the CP exploit when it was introduced with massive CP that were never banned from the game.

But your tone and the way your attacking the community that differs from your opinion is kind of baffling almost like your trying to get this discussion locked.

Your coming back into the discussion a tad late, but the reason the tone got that way was because I had to sit there and repeat myself about four or five times to clarify the point. It gets frustraiting and I'm not going to defend how I got because this is one of those times where I had to go get a coffee, calm down, and shake my head at myself. However, everything I said -since- this quote I agree with in reguards to how the difficulty system needs done and how the CP system needs done.

Also, we are actually going to be seeing new abilities and morphs, the new weapon ultimates, but I do agree we simply need more class lines possibly, in order to fill the gaps in the system we currently have. ZOS has tried to hold back -lasting- change by adding more variables into the mix, something I find very interesting but ultimately does not seem to be working for them.

magnusthorek

Difficulty between base game and DLC dungeons

I think that a middle term, not so easy as base game dungeons but not so stressfull (not hard) as revamped Trials would be nice.

I don't own the Shadows of the Hist to consider, though

Asardes

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

Easy mode - PuG from zone chat or even random people from groupping tool
Hard mode - guildies and other friends that you've run dungeons with before and you are convinced they are up to the task

You don't bring a rattletrap to the racetrack and complain you don't get top times or you blow the piston heads trough the hood halfway trough the lap. You bring a sports car.

It's that simple actually.

k9mouse

other

Make it like beta days before it got nerf to Oblivion,,,

bryanhaas

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

CometStrike wrote: »

The question is simple: which difficulty do you hope the additional normal and veteran versions will have?

I would describe me and my guild as something like semi-ambitious casuals. Both normal and veteran dungeons of the base game are more or less a faceroll, with only a few of the vet versions even needing a healer. However, the DLC dungeons are a totally different thing and while we have a few pretty good players, it is still very rare and a subject of applause in our guild if people manage to beat the veteran version of the latest dungeons. For the IC dungeons it happens sometimes, but is also rather rare.

Therefore, I personally hope for a normal version that is set at a slightly lower difficulty than the newest dungeons and a vet difficulty somewhere in between the base game and the DLC dungeons, maybe with a hardmode that sets the last boss fight at the level of the current vet Hist dungeons.

Ideally I also hope for eventually a third tier of difficulty, but since this seems to be out of the question at the moment, I would love to see the newly added dungeon parts to cater to the casuals who know about their build and abilities. What is your hope?

If you want this game to survive the diffculty of the bottom seven should be at least VICP hard the rest should be harder then VCOS and VROM by 30% . And please increase the difficulty of the normal trials they are ridiculously easy and do no thing to prepare the population for vet trials. And dont spout this grbage about them being to hard now all you need is a Patient leader and Ts and you can be walked through any of the IC or hist dungeons with minimal effort in veteran. Ive been pugging the last two damn weeks dragging people through them. dont blame the group finder because your not put in a proper set up group and cant face roll them with three medicore DPS with one that calls himself a tank . the new dungeons should be hard and the mechanics should be headed in the direction of how Hist and the new veteran trials are. Voice com Leadership team work, Its called a MMO for a reason, Community friendships and socializing . Not que up give me my loot see ya later. The whole rest of the game is exactly like that go play that part if you dont like socializing , in game friendships and team work. Friggin cry baby participationists!

You can always scale down trials so having normal harder should not be a problem for anyone. Normal too hard run it at level 45 still too hard keep scaling down til you find the one you can complete and then slowly scale it up til you reach the right difficulty.

So I agree with you.

Wifeaggro13

other

k9mouse wrote: »

Make it like beta days before it got nerf to Oblivion,,,

I agree , though beta was a wreck as far as functioning systems there were very good idea's in beta .

Lieblingsjunge

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

vCoS & vRoM are hard, yes. But they're easier once you master the mechanics! And I would love for the new dungeons to feel pretty much the same. I don't want to complete the dungeon on the first try, within 10 minutes.

They're even adding guaranteed-head-drop from the last boss, so having dungeons last for 30-45 minutes average should be a thing :>

bryanhaas

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

Somewhat off subject but I would like to see a rating for each dungeon for each difficulty, then after completing each dungeon you get a recap screen that only shows your stats and gives you a score based on how well or poorly you did which adds into an average for that character and puts you in dungeons based on your score. So the crappy healers get put in the easy dungeons (this would only be for activity finder). Also if you attempt to manually enter a dungeon harder than you can handle based on your dungeon score then it alerts you that you character dungeon skill is below the minimum recommended for this dungeon. If people want to enter things they have no business in they should be allowed to but at the same time they should also be advised that this will end very badly.

Leogon

Difficulty similar to base game dungeons

My group consists of me and my brother so my vote goes to base game difficulty since group dungeons don't scale based on the number of players in your group.

Dubhliam

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

Leogon wrote: »

My group consists of me and my brother so my vote goes to base game difficulty since group dungeons don't scale based on the number of players in your group.

So basically, you agree they are too easy.
And you purposefully gimp yourself to make it challenging.
Therefore everybody else shouldn't have fun playing challenging content.

ArchMikem

Difficulty similar to base game dungeons

You cant call yourself a casual and say all the dungeons are easy. Thats like saying "im just a soft civilian but going to war is easy."

Dubhliam

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

ArchMikem wrote: »

You cant call yourself a casual and say all the dungeons are easy. Thats like saying "im just a soft civilian but going to war is easy."

If you are using the term casual to determine someone's skill, then why should both normal and veteran version be catered to casuals?
If they make veteran versions hard, all players get catered to- easy normal modes, hard veteran modes.
If they make veteran dungeons catered to casuals, then where does the hardcore player fit into this picture?

Doctordarkspawn

Difficulty similar to base game dungeons

Dubhliam wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

You cant call yourself a casual and say all the dungeons are easy. Thats like saying "im just a soft civilian but going to war is easy."

If you are using the term casual to determine someone's skill, then why should both normal and veteran version be catered to casuals?
If they make veteran versions hard, all players get catered to- easy normal modes, hard veteran modes.
If they make veteran dungeons catered to casuals, then where does the hardcore player fit into this picture?

Veteran trials.

Actually that's not true. The idea behind the gold pledge key, it seemed to me, was adding a challenge by tying one hand behind your back so to speak. Like keeping the wraiths alive in crypt of hearts, and such. And it was difficult, back when we were lower levels, back when we didn't have maelstrom weapons and 40 K DPS. It was fun, when it was new, because we couldn't make a build that murderized the game.

It begs the question. What does updating this content mean? Do we want to make it actually -hold up- with todays system, or do we want to make it ultrahard to compensate for the optimized VMA weapons of today? That's a question for the designers. But this is my stance.

If you run the meta, if you run an optimized build, by the numbers, by the book, with vet maelstrom weapons and all the bells and whistles, should you be suprised when the game is woefully easy? No. You put in the work, you got the power. But the challenges for those special few, need to be the highest peaks the game has to offer. And they alllready are.

Dubhliam

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

@Doctordarkspawn
You really need to realize these two facts:

1. We are not losing the CP system, it is here to stay.
2. We are not getting additional new difficulties.

That being said, the answer to the question "how difficult should veteran versions of dungeons be?" is quite simple.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Leogon wrote: »

My group consists of me and my brother so my vote goes to base game difficulty since group dungeons don't scale based on the number of players in your group.

So basically, you agree they are too easy.
And you purposefully gimp yourself to make it challenging.
Therefore everybody else shouldn't have fun playing challenging content.
[SNIP]

[Edited to remove Bait]

Ep1kMalware

CometStrike wrote: »

The question is simple: which difficulty do you hope the additional normal and veteran versions will have?

I would describe me and my guild as something like semi-ambitious casuals. Both normal and veteran dungeons of the base game are more or less a faceroll, with only a few of the vet versions even needing a healer. However, the DLC dungeons are a totally different thing and while we have a few pretty good players, it is still very rare and a subject of applause in our guild if people manage to beat the veteran version of the latest dungeons. For the IC dungeons it happens sometimes, but is also rather rare.

Therefore, I personally hope for a normal version that is set at a slightly lower difficulty than the newest dungeons and a vet difficulty somewhere in between the base game and the DLC dungeons, maybe with a hardmode that sets the last boss fight at the level of the current vet Hist dungeons.

Ideally I also hope for eventually a third tier of difficulty, but since this seems to be out of the question at the moment, I would love to see the newly added dungeon parts to cater to the casuals who know about their build and abilities. What is your hope?

Lower difficulty than the newer dungeons? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME??? Those dungeons are trollololol slap in the face omfg srs;y? joke is on you easy. AND they award helmets for some *** up reason. I consider some of the normal only dungeons to be harder than these. like vaults and vollenfell.

I expect to see a range of difficulties, some will be easier than others for sure, but probably not on an extreme scale.

DocFrost72

Difficulty between base game and DLC dungeons

To explain my answer: How these dungeons work is that stories one and two for each dungeon both get a normal and veteran version. My hopes; ZoS takes this opportunity to impliment what amounts to a pseudo middle ground for us.

Right now, the new Vet DLC dungeons are a good challenge, and the old normal dungeons are easy to old hands. I would like to see old normal dungeons be the intro level, vet story one dungeons and normal story two be the middle.ground meant for your average player, and vet story two dungeons be for hardcore players.

In this way, we get a lot of content for your average player, and a fair amount of more casual and more hardcore content.