Which difficulty should the dungeons in Update 12 have?

Ep1kMalware

DocFrost72 wrote: »

To explain my answer: How these dungeons work is that stories one and two for each dungeon both get a normal and veteran version. My hopes; ZoS takes this opportunity to impliment what amounts to a pseudo middle ground for us.

Right now, the new Vet DLC dungeons are a good challenge, and the old normal dungeons are easy to old hands. I would like to see old normal dungeons be the intro level, vet story one dungeons and normal story two be the middle.ground meant for your average player, and vet story two dungeons be for hardcore players.

In this way, we get a lot of content for your average player, and a fair amount of more casual and more hardcore content.

it sounds really good in theory but have you seen the play quality of most people, at least on ps4?

I bloodspawned some guy that was claiming to have epic dps and he did less than half the damage to this thing im several minutes. I know the guy personally so I know it wasn't just a troll. You get tanks with no food, like 5k max stats spamming repentence, and this is on a typical 'good' day puggimg around.


If the current;y new released normmal modes of cos/rom aren't any indication of how easy something must be to challenge the general playerbase is then idk what.

some people seriously struggle on it while others sprint through 1 shotting everything laughing about it. Any 'middle' ground would probably just get rage qq threads.

I think the current difficulty system is:

normal dungeons
vet dungeons
trials
arenas

seems fine to me.

Hamrb

other

Why not have a mix of all different levels of challenge. Normal spindle is pretty darn basic, while vaults of madness has a fair amount going on for a few bosses. Would love to see them scale up differently

Doctordarkspawn

Difficulty similar to base game dungeons

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn
You really need to realize these two facts:

1. We are not losing the CP system, it is here to stay.
2. We are not getting additional new difficulties.

That being said, the answer to the question "how difficult should veteran versions of dungeons be?" is quite simple.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Leogon wrote: »

My group consists of me and my brother so my vote goes to base game difficulty since group dungeons don't scale based on the number of players in your group.

So basically, you agree they are too easy.
And you purposefully gimp yourself to make it challenging.
Therefore everybody else shouldn't have fun playing challenging content.

And here, we have the primary reason this is happening.

The group that want the higher difficulty cannot deal with or concieve that anything else than their difficulty wants -exist-. No compromises, no discussion, we must rip the content from their cold dead hands and make it our own.

[/quote]

[SNIP]

And if that's the case you need to understand I'm not going to sit there and watch you rip the content I've been doing at the difficulty I've been doing it from my grasp, repurpose it for your hardcore fix, and do absolutely nothing about it.

There is no compromise. You are taking content that was previously doable, and raising the bar on it. And given how Zeni is still experimenting with difficulty, I dont believe they can do it right.

I understand what your saying, I just disagree with it. I dont condone taking a hatchet to the metrics because of a fad that's currently in vogue that will pass like any other.

[SNIP]

[Edited to remove Bait]

Wifeaggro13

other

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn
You really need to realize these two facts:

1. We are not losing the CP system, it is here to stay.
2. We are not getting additional new difficulties.

That being said, the answer to the question "how difficult should veteran versions of dungeons be?" is quite simple.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Leogon wrote: »

My group consists of me and my brother so my vote goes to base game difficulty since group dungeons don't scale based on the number of players in your group.

So basically, you agree they are too easy.
And you purposefully gimp yourself to make it challenging.
Therefore everybody else shouldn't have fun playing challenging content.

And here, we have the primary reason this is happening.

The group that want the higher difficulty cannot deal with or concieve that anything else than their difficulty wants -exist-. No compromises, no discussion, we must rip the content from their cold dead hands and make it our own.

Which part of NORMAL. DUNGEON. DIFFICULTY. DO. YOU. NOT. UNDERSTAND?
Two exact dungeons, same loot, different difficulties.
What more of a compromise do you need?

End. Of. Discussion.

And if that's the case you need to understand I'm not going to sit there and watch you rip the content I've been doing at the difficulty I've been doing it from my grasp, repurpose it for your hardcore fix, and do absolutely nothing about it.

There is no compromise. You are taking content that was previously doable, and raising the bar on it. And given how Zeni is still experimenting with difficulty, I dont believe they can do it right.

The discussion is not over. I understand what your saying, I just disagree with it. I dont condone taking a hatchet to the metrics because of a fad that's currently in vogue that will pass like any other.

@Dubhliam, I will not suffer for your enjoyment. Telling me to do so is unreasonable. And if you cannot understand the objections, like so many others cant, Do Not Post.

Well sir according to the pole your it the minority . We will what Zeni does

Doctordarkspawn

Difficulty similar to base game dungeons

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn
You really need to realize these two facts:

1. We are not losing the CP system, it is here to stay.
2. We are not getting additional new difficulties.

That being said, the answer to the question "how difficult should veteran versions of dungeons be?" is quite simple.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Leogon wrote: »

My group consists of me and my brother so my vote goes to base game difficulty since group dungeons don't scale based on the number of players in your group.

So basically, you agree they are too easy.
And you purposefully gimp yourself to make it challenging.
Therefore everybody else shouldn't have fun playing challenging content.

And here, we have the primary reason this is happening.

The group that want the higher difficulty cannot deal with or concieve that anything else than their difficulty wants -exist-. No compromises, no discussion, we must rip the content from their cold dead hands and make it our own.

Which part of NORMAL. DUNGEON. DIFFICULTY. DO. YOU. NOT. UNDERSTAND?
Two exact dungeons, same loot, different difficulties.
What more of a compromise do you need?

End. Of. Discussion.

And if that's the case you need to understand I'm not going to sit there and watch you rip the content I've been doing at the difficulty I've been doing it from my grasp, repurpose it for your hardcore fix, and do absolutely nothing about it.

There is no compromise. You are taking content that was previously doable, and raising the bar on it. And given how Zeni is still experimenting with difficulty, I dont believe they can do it right.

The discussion is not over. I understand what your saying, I just disagree with it. I dont condone taking a hatchet to the metrics because of a fad that's currently in vogue that will pass like any other.

@Dubhliam, I will not suffer for your enjoyment. Telling me to do so is unreasonable. And if you cannot understand the objections, like so many others cant, Do Not Post.

Well sir according to the pole your it the minority . We will what Zeni does

I believe I've gone and pretty much mashed that point before by just taking a look at the amount of people looking for groups, queuing, that sort of thing.

Just because people say it does not mean they actually want it. White Gold Tower and Imperial City Prison got the ""Oh please dont nerf it" treatment. And we already know why they did. They looked at the amount of people who had the DLC, the amount that accepted the quest, and the amount that finished it, and found some problem with those numbers.

Dubhliam

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn
You really need to realize these two facts:

1. We are not losing the CP system, it is here to stay.
2. We are not getting additional new difficulties.

That being said, the answer to the question "how difficult should veteran versions of dungeons be?" is quite simple.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Leogon wrote: »

My group consists of me and my brother so my vote goes to base game difficulty since group dungeons don't scale based on the number of players in your group.

So basically, you agree they are too easy.
And you purposefully gimp yourself to make it challenging.
Therefore everybody else shouldn't have fun playing challenging content.

And here, we have the primary reason this is happening.

The group that want the higher difficulty cannot deal with or concieve that anything else than their difficulty wants -exist-. No compromises, no discussion, we must rip the content from their cold dead hands and make it our own.

.

And if that's the case you need to understand I'm not going to sit there and watch you rip the content I've been doing at the difficulty I've been doing it from my grasp, repurpose it for your hardcore fix, and do absolutely nothing about it.

There is no compromise. You are taking content that was previously doable, and raising the bar on it. And given how Zeni is still experimenting with difficulty, I dont believe they can do it right.

The discussion is not over. I understand what your saying, I just disagree with it. I dont condone taking a hatchet to the metrics because of a fad that's currently in vogue that will pass like any other.

Basically what you are saying is: you want content difficulty to be catered to your exact needs.

Because, you have the option to run normal versions, yet you choose not to.

If we don't get hard veteran dungeons, we don't have a choice then, do we?
Why don't competitive players get to choose?

If you don't enjoy easy mode normal versions, how is it so hard to understand that we don't enjoy the current base vet dungeon difficulty?

Ridistrin

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

I would want the new dungeons to be at least as hard as vICP was when it was released.

ZOS_JohanaB

This thread has had several comments removed and edited. If someone says something you don't like please remember that you do not have to respond. Just keep your comments constructive and in line with the community rules.

CometStrike

Difficulty between base game and DLC dungeons

Sadly I do not have enough hard drive space for the PTS, so has anybody already tested a few of the new dungeons? how difficult (or easy ) are they compared to what we have now?

Dubhliam

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

I haven't yet tested them on the PTS, but judging by the way they are grouped, I can only assume they are similar in difficulty to vCoA.
The two old dungeons that are in the same group are CoA and CoH.

So I guess they went for the third option:

• Difficulty between base game and DLC dungeons

Mojmir

I want difficulty but not overused cheese mechanics and lazy development. Adding a million hps to a boss is also not my idea of challenging.
I tried the normal versions on pts, they're still solable for a competent player.

Dubhliam

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

Mojmir wrote: »

I want difficulty but not overused cheese mechanics and lazy development. Adding a million hps to a boss is also not my idea of challenging.
I tried the normal versions on pts, they're still solable for a competent player.

Judging by the feedback from the PTS subforum, veteran versions are absolutely the same, just with more Health.

In this poll there isn't an option for what ZOS chose, which is:

• Easier difficulty than base game dungeons

IwakuraLain42

Dubhliam wrote: »

Judging by the feedback from the PTS subforum, veteran versions are absolutely the same, just with more Health.

Anyone who doesn't has access to the PTS can watch the PAX twitch archive for day 2 where you can see the dev team playing vetTempestIsland (and failing a few times at the end). Looks like they just upped the HP and damage of the enemies so that you have to play by the (already existing but mostly ignored) mechanics.

AzuraKin

other

i voted other because this is zos taking a lazy and in essense stealing content. yes i said stealing content. and ill explain below:

1. zos is being lazy because they have yet to finish half of the original dungeon vet modes and they have released 4 new group dungeons as well by being lazy and making vet and normal same dungeon just different difficulty (lame). one of the things i loved about the dungeons in this game is you had normal and vet dungeons that were completely different from each other. TELL ME ZOS WHY ARE YOU CHANGING CORE ASPECTS OF THIS GAME YET AGAIN EVEN WHEN YOU LOSE SO MANY PLAYERS WITH EACH CORE CHANGE? HOW MANY PLAYERS LEFT WITH ADDITION OF CHAMPION POINTS? A HECK TON. MAN UP ZOS AND ADMIT YOU ARE MAKING BAD CHOICES IN DIRECTION OF GAME AND I WILLING TO BET MOST OF THOSE WHO REMAIN WILL LEAVE ONCE GAMES LIKE DAoC2 COMES OUT.

AzuraKin

other

2.: zos is stealing content because the original 4 man dungeons were intended and in fact was stated that all 16 original group dungeons included in original purchase was intended to have normal and vet modes, each telling a different story. this means the money i paid for the game in 2014 included vet modes of a differing story then just the normal dungeon. as well as teh *** stories show an obvious non-conclusion to the story. example black heart haven, you obvious are intended to go back and stop our little friend who wanted capt blackheart dead. where rest of that story? selene's web, when do we go back and help selene's folks get revenge? you see where i am going, the stories of the normal dungeons are designed to work into the vet stories. it is zos being lazy ass *** and not finishing original content that they specifically stated, they just didnt manage to finish the vet dungeons by game launch but that they would be added as they were completed yet somehow not one vet dungeon for original groups dungeons have been completed since vcoa was finished. i can guarantee zos, soon as i find another game i like to spend time in, you can say adios to my money.

IN *** CONCLUSION ZOS: NORMAL GROUP AND VET GROUP STORIES SHOULD BE DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER. THAT WAS ONE OF THE FUN ASPECTS OF DUNGEON DELVING IN THIS GAME. DONT KNOW ABOUT OTHER GAMERS BUT I SURE AS HELL DONT WANNA PLAY ESO IF ITS JUST LIKE THE OTHER MILLION MMORPGS OUT THERE.

Asardes

Difficulty similar to DLC dungeons

1. You are assuming players have left which would not have left anyway had the game not changed or changed in a different way. Some people will leave, some will come in their place. Some will leave for a period for different reasons and come back later. In the end it might be more profitable for a business to cater to a smaller, but more dedicated player base that pays for subscription and certain features, than make a game that seeks to please all, but fails pleasing the right people and fails in the end.
2. How is revamping old content "stealing", especially if the content was made by the same team in the first place? They are only adding hard modes for the vanilla game dungeons. They will now function exactly like the DLC ones and trials after the patch. This in fact makes more sense as all group content in the game now has a normal mode, a veteran mode and a hard mode for the veteran mode end boss.
3. You are assuming all dungeon were released with the intent of having a 2nd chapter. Which is in fact may not be true at all. Making a sequel for dungeons that hint at some daedric artifact (Fungal Grotto, Elden Hollow) contain undead or daedra of some type (Banished Cells, City of Ash, Crypt of Hearts) or in which a different type of enemy appears near or at the end (Darkshade Caverns) makes sense. Which doesn't mean that such content will not be eventually released. But that's not due to "laziness" but limited resources. For example seeing Selene returns makes a lot of sense since she is undead and hints it herself, but seeing the Lamia from Arx Corinium does not, since she is but an animal, and not undead. Zombie/Daedric Lamias don't really fit into the lore.

One Tamriel is a huge overhaul already, and doing it right consumes all resources available. Which are limited, because there is a limited number of developers, which can only work for a limited number of hours, because, alas, they are mortal humans and not some daedra or soul shriven condemned for eternity. IMO they work hard, and they have improved quite a few things. Despite the fact that "devhating" has become a popular sport both on forum and within the game itself. If people think themselves so smart, they should come with constructive solution, not insulting and cursing people for not catering to them specifically. Don't like it, don't play it.

Wifeaggro13

other

Asardes wrote: »

1. You are assuming players have left which would not have left anyway had the game not changed or changed in a different way. Some people will leave, some will come in their place. Some will leave for a period for different reasons and come back later. In the end it might be more profitable for a business to cater to a smaller, but more dedicated player base that pays for subscription and certain features, than make a game that seeks to please all, but fails pleasing the right people and fails in the end.
2. How is revamping old content "stealing", especially if the content was made by the same team in the first place? They are only adding hard modes for the vanilla game dungeons. They will now function exactly like the DLC ones and trials after the patch. This in fact makes more sense as all group content in the game now has a normal mode, a veteran mode and a hard mode for the veteran mode end boss.
3. You are assuming all dungeon were released with the intent of having a 2nd chapter. Which is in fact may not be true at all. Making a sequel for dungeons that hint at some daedric artifact (Fungal Grotto, Elden Hollow) contain undead or daedra of some type (Banished Cells, City of Ash, Crypt of Hearts) or in which a different type of enemy appears near or at the end (Darkshade Caverns) makes sense. Which doesn't mean that such content will not be eventually released. But that's not due to "laziness" but limited resources. For example seeing Selene returns makes a lot of sense since she is undead and hints it herself, but seeing the Lamia from Arx Corinium does not, since she is but an animal, and not undead. Zombie/Daedric Lamias don't really fit into the lore.

One Tamriel is a huge overhaul already, and doing it right consumes all resources available. Which are limited, because there is a limited number of developers, which can only work for a limited number of hours, because, alas, they are mortal humans and not some daedra or soul shriven condemned for eternity. IMO they work hard, and they have improved quite a few things. Despite the fact that "devhating" has become a popular sport both on forum and within the game itself. If people think themselves so smart, they should come with constructive solution, not insulting and cursing people for not catering to them specifically. Don't like it, don't play it.

He is right in one respect the development cycle and content has been lazily . Lots regurgitation, false lvl increases with no game expanding and enriching systems. The addition of the CP system is half baked, the new guilds having no actives . By two year mark most AAA development teams had full fledged AA systems , doubled endgame activities , housing , new classes, and plenty of four man content four the competitive player and plenty of easier four man's to tier up and prepare the new palyer. Zos went in too many directions with a grab as many players as we can and screw retention, sell boxes not subs , no its sell Dlc,s , and fluff not eso premium memberships.is it not obvious with the IC 60 dollar repurpose skin sscam?