Willpower/Agility vs. Minor Slayer 3p Jewelry Sets

  • psychotic13
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    Everyone's so *** touchy on these forums it's pathetic, yes we get the point that it could've/should've been a shorter video and that most sets are overlooked simply because a lot of people run agility/willpower a monster set and a 5pc with 1 spair slot for a maelstrom weapon. But really what do you get out of arguing about the length of a video, like grow up.
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    code65536 wrote: »
    Of course, this doesn't necessarily spell the doom of Willpower/Agility: you will still want to use those sets for PvP, and in PvE, the advantage of the Minor Slayer sets apply only for the 4-person group dungeons, the 12-person trials, DSA, and MA (though those are the only pieces of PvE content worth optimizing for).

    In the end, that's the point though isn't it? The 3pc bonus of Moondancer only works in the end-game dungeons, as opposed to Willpower and Agility working pretty much, everywhere. I wouldn't really consider that as the set being better than the other two. It's only better for a select player base.
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  • code65536
    code65536
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    MOONDANCER BiS. Always knew it was a great set, but now its even better. Here we go, the new magic DPS meta : Molag Kena, Scathing Mage and Moondancer.
    Well, technically, Infallible is BiS. With Moondancer, each individual hit will do more slightly more damage, but Infallible will give you slightly more crit. In the long run, the extra crits from Infallible will slightly edge out the extra base damage from Moondancer. Infallible's advantage will grow in well-coordinated raids where you'll be wearing TBS and where a there is a good War Horn rotation. Also, sets like Scathing Mage will favor Infallible's extra crit.

    That said, the difference between Moondancer and Infallible is really quite small.

    ArchMikem wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    Of course, this doesn't necessarily spell the doom of Willpower/Agility: you will still want to use those sets for PvP, and in PvE, the advantage of the Minor Slayer sets apply only for the 4-person group dungeons, the 12-person trials, DSA, and MA (though those are the only pieces of PvE content worth optimizing for).

    In the end, that's the point though isn't it? The 3pc bonus of Moondancer only works in the end-game dungeons, as opposed to Willpower and Agility working pretty much, everywhere. I wouldn't really consider that as the set being better than the other two. It's only better for a select player base.
    Well, yes, This entire thread is applicable only for endgame PvE like trials, but for a number of players, stuff like trials are pretty much all they do. Every single build post in this forum where people post Blood Spawn parses are builds for endgame PvE; those are all for a "select player base", too.

    In any case, there is already a lot of divergence between PvP and PvE. You use impen in PvP, divines in PvE. Crit is king in PvE, sustain is something not to be ignored in PvP. You will instantly know that someone's a scrub with subpar DPS in PvE if you see them using a 2-hander, yet 2-hander is superior in PvP.

    You already use different sets, weapons, skills, morphs, etc. in PvP than in PvE, so having a set that's BiS in PvE only isn't exactly something new or radical.
    Edited by code65536 on August 6, 2016 2:34PM
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  • Bromburak
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    Sypher wrote: »
    this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.


    Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

    Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


    LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

    So what's your solution? All I got from your comment is you have the attention span of a squirrel and you feel robbed of your precious 10 minutes.

    Maybe the problem and solution went over your head and you missed the big picture. I'd ask you to listen carefully but I doubt you can give it another run after that painful 10 minutes of me rambling.

    Don't have to attempt to trash me, I've always loved your guides(Written ones) but you stutter, stammer way too much, esp for a person who really, SHOULD be a public speaker. You spent way too much time reaching a very obvious point(I got it, i figured what you were leaning toward inside the first 30 seconds, trust me, I GOT what your saying)

    But sorry, I lost respect for you with this trash post, if you can't handle constructive criticism, i guess thats just that. I'll continue to READ your builds, but i doubt i'll ever bother clicking one of your u tube videos again

    Constructive criticism?

    Like your "OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech."

    At least @Sypher is authentic and says what he thinks.
    If you expect prepared fake speech don't watch spontanous gamer streams, how about that?
  • OrphanHelgen
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    So if you have aether or moondancer in legendary, its worth using, but not if they are purple, then willpower is better it seams like.
    PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact


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  • code65536
    code65536
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    So if you have aether or moondancer in legendary, its worth using, but not if they are purple, then willpower is better it seams like.

    Gold Infallible > Purple Infallible > Gold Moondancer > Purple Moondancer > Purple Willpower

    With a typical raid setup--running TBS, with some war horns going out--the higher crit damage from TBS and from war horns would favor Infallible's crit even more than the baseline no-TBS/no-horn setup that I tested in this thread.

    The difference between Gold and Purple Infallible is just 90 max magicka before amps and about 0.1% crit chance.

    Between Gold and Purple Moondancer is just 124 max magicka before amps.

    The important thing is that Minor Slayer is always 5% regardless of the color.

    The DPS loss between Gold and Purple will be very, very small, like 0.1-0.3%. Of course, the differences between the sets are already small to begin with--we're talking a percent or two--and the color would narrow that even more, but not enough to change the general order of Infallible > Moondancer > Willpower for a raid setup.
    Edited by code65536 on August 8, 2016 12:02PM
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  • ConnorWoods
    ConnorWoods
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    So going away from all the video hate I have a genuine question about this topic regarding Vicious Ophidian, would be it be better to run VO 5 piece instead of Agility and one piece Kena and Velidreth then? How do you calculate if a bonus to critical is better than a weapon damage boost?

    Thank you, Connor Woods.

    (I'm running TBS and Trap with 66.7% Critical and 5300 weapon damage buffed on Alcast's JabsMania build)
    Edited by ConnorWoods on August 9, 2016 2:32AM
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  • juhasman
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    Sypher wrote: »
    Sypher wrote: »
    this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.


    Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

    Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


    LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

    This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

    I'm sorry I'm not up to your standard. Oh wait, I'm not sorry. You should go look for the other educational videos about our game or make your own.

    @Sypher
    Imagine if ZOS responded like this to you with all your ranting and bitching you do about the game acting like you can do the job better then them. What would you say? What you said is like ZOS telling me to go make my own costume because I told them the Breton costume was lazily put together.

    Weather you agree with me or not is beside the point, the content in the video was lazy, it was too long for what it was about. This is your job, not everyone is going to be a fan boy and enjoy your content no matter what. Go watch your video from a viewers point of view, like if you were just watching another video on you tube and tell me you would say that was good content.

    You aint doing this for fun anymore, its a job and if you want people to acknowledge what you do as a real job, You, your self should act like its a real job. Just saying.

    p.s If you think I'm saying this because I dont like you, I'm not, I'm saying this because the creator of the post that your video was linked in as evidence to an argument, Put fourth 100% more effort then you did, and they probably did it for fun.

    The original post doesn't actually conflict or even correlate with my video. He's comparing end game PvE jewelry slots. My video doesn't have the answers but it was meant to start a discussion about gear variety in a PVP setting.


    That's why forum should have 2 separate sections for PvE Combat & Character Mechanic and same for PvP. There is so many threads where people disagree with each other simply because one says about PvE and the seconds about PvP.
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    CP 750
  • code65536
    code65536
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    juhasman wrote: »
    Sypher wrote: »
    Sypher wrote: »
    this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.


    Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

    Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


    LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

    This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

    I'm sorry I'm not up to your standard. Oh wait, I'm not sorry. You should go look for the other educational videos about our game or make your own.

    @Sypher
    Imagine if ZOS responded like this to you with all your ranting and bitching you do about the game acting like you can do the job better then them. What would you say? What you said is like ZOS telling me to go make my own costume because I told them the Breton costume was lazily put together.

    Weather you agree with me or not is beside the point, the content in the video was lazy, it was too long for what it was about. This is your job, not everyone is going to be a fan boy and enjoy your content no matter what. Go watch your video from a viewers point of view, like if you were just watching another video on you tube and tell me you would say that was good content.

    You aint doing this for fun anymore, its a job and if you want people to acknowledge what you do as a real job, You, your self should act like its a real job. Just saying.

    p.s If you think I'm saying this because I dont like you, I'm not, I'm saying this because the creator of the post that your video was linked in as evidence to an argument, Put fourth 100% more effort then you did, and they probably did it for fun.

    The original post doesn't actually conflict or even correlate with my video. He's comparing end game PvE jewelry slots. My video doesn't have the answers but it was meant to start a discussion about gear variety in a PVP setting.


    That's why forum should have 2 separate sections for PvE Combat & Character Mechanic and same for PvP. There is so many threads where people disagree with each other simply because one says about PvE and the seconds about PvP.

    There actually is a forum for PvP combat. Anyway, this isn't Sypher's fault--he wasn't the one who linked the video into this thread. Someone else did, without understanding the context and relevancy and without providing any summary of what the video is trying to say, and we end up with half a thread going off-topic.
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  • code65536
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    Thank you, @Asayre for the detailed information. I had meant to respond earlier, but it had slipped my mind until you mentioned it again this morning.

    This additive stacking is very counter-intuitive--I had expected the Minor Slayer would be a buff applied separately and after all others, and I had never considered the possibility that it would work like this, and as a result, I hadn't tested or even considered the execution scenario originally.

    I just finished running a couple of quick tests to confirm all this:

    Minor Slayer Inactive, Pre-Execute: 2353, 4093 crit
    Minor Slayer Inactive, Execute: 9410, 16374 crit
    Minor Slayer Active, Pre-Execute: 2470, 4297 crit
    Minor Slayer Active, Execute: 9527, 16578 crit

    For the pre-execute damage, the Minor Slayer buff of 5% applies as one would expect. Once in the execute range, Minor Slayer is providing only a 1.25% buff.

    Instead of execute damage with Minor Slayer being 2353*4*1.05 = 2353*4.20 = 9882, we instead have 2353*4.05 = 9529 (observed 9527).

    And, yes, in light of this, Minor Slayer is not ideal for builds that do substantial amounts of execute damage, like magicka Templars.

    Also, I would like to ask @Wrobel if the way this is currently being calculated is actually intended. Intuitively, from the language of the tooltip, one would expect Minor Slayer to be applied independently, after all the other damage has been calculated (thus applied multiplicatively).

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
    Edited by code65536 on August 26, 2016 9:40PM
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  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
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    code65536 wrote: »
    Thank you, @Asayre for the detailed information. I had meant to respond earlier, but it had slipped my mind until you mentioned it again this morning.

    This additive stacking is very counter-intuitive--I had expected the Minor Slayer would be a buff applied separately and after all others, and I had never considered the possibility that it would work like this, and as a result, I hadn't tested or even considered the execution scenario originally.

    I just finished running a couple of quick tests to confirm all this:

    Minor Slayer Inactive, Pre-Execute: 2353, 4093 crit
    Minor Slayer Inactive, Execute: 9410, 16374 crit
    Minor Slayer Active, Pre-Execute: 2470, 4297 crit
    Minor Slayer Active, Execute: 9527, 16578 crit

    For the pre-execute damage, the Minor Slayer buff of 5% applies as one would expect. Once in the execute range, Minor Slayer is providing only a 1.25% buff.

    Instead of execute damage being 2353*4*1.05 = 2353*4.20 = 9882, we instead have 2353*4.05 = 9529 (observed 9527).

    And, yes, in light of this, Minor Slayer is not ideal for builds that do substantial amounts of execute damage, like magicka Templars.

    Also, I would like to ask @Wrobel if the way this is currently being calculated is actually intended. Intuitively, from the language of the tooltip, one would expect Minor Slayer to be applied independently, after all the other damage has been calculated (thus applied multiplicatively).

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

    Solid points. I didn't even consider this. o.o
  • hedna123b14_ESO
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    Asayre wrote: »
    It's a very interesting topic and thank you for bringing it up @code65536. However, I disagree that Minor Slayer is always better than Willpower. Some endgame classes/builds will do better with Willpower. The main reason is that the average damage equation for ability looks something like this
    ff084859e43d81cee6161c6718f3542b.png
    where a is the ability coefficient, b is ~10.5, CP refers to boost from corresponding CP stars (e.g. Elemental Expert for Force Pulse) and Other refers to other multipliers like Minor Berserk or Minor Slayer. Minor Slayer is additive with Other multipliers thus its effectiveness decreases if you have Other multipliers.

    If we wanted to be a bit more mathematically vigorous, we could consider how each set impacts the average damage equation and the formulating equivalent equations on the addition of each set. So for instance, with the addition of Willpower, the average damage equation can be written as
    503bc341b573419d50e80ccee44ef2f6.png
    where M_0, S_0 are magicka and spell damage before the addition of Willpower. M_W and S_W correspond to the additional max magicka and spell damage granted by the Willpower set. C_0 and M correspond to critical chance and critical multiplier. M' is mitigation. Avg Dmg_Base is the same as the first equation.
    Similarly, upon the addition of Moondancer
    e596a67328b038c3a1d3fe4b19d46fe4.png
    where M_M is the additional magicka due to the Moondancer set and also includes an additional 60 magicka due to going from Epic to Legendary quality jewelry.

    The difference between the two being
    6c1a0bc094b5f4083bf8d850d552eb54.png
    The first four terms can be ignored as they are always positive and we only need to focus on the 4th term (everything inside the square brackets)

    The equation above is not particularly illuminating. But consider a Dunmer magicka DK running 5 Twice-Born Star, 2 Skoria, 1 Maelstrom staff and deciding between 3 Willpower and 3 Moondancer. The predicted stats for this character are
    2191ac66cb363d944f1cf8e18422c5a0.png
    I'm assuming max CP, legendary gear, Major and Minor Sorcery and constant Minor Berserk. With these numbers the equation above suggest that Willpower is favoured.

    So in summary, since Minor Slayer is additive with other multiplicative buffs like Minor Berserk or execute bonus (Radiant/Impale), I would suggest that Willpower is actually better for magicka Templars and Nightblades.

    Would you say that it's better even after factoring in that IA also adds crit?
  • Asayre
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    @hedna123b14_ESO

    Yes, Willpower is better than IA after factoring crits. A similar line of reasoning can be carried out but the maths is a bit messier which is why I chose to compare to Moondancer.
    Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation
  • ARIES SERPICO
    ARIES SERPICO
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    this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.


    This video you posted is useless and proves nothing since he never even compares minor slayer and its PvP focused. Thanks for killing 6 mins of my brain cells.
  • hedna123b14_ESO
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    Asayre wrote: »
    @hedna123b14_ESO

    Yes, Willpower is better than IA after factoring crits. A similar line of reasoning can be carried out but the maths is a bit messier which is why I chose to compare to Moondancer.

    Now how about this scenario: 3 willpower + 2 Torug swords VS 3 Aether jewelry and 2 aether swords. Surely then Aether is better for NB and Templar.
  • kojou
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    Asayre wrote: »
    @hedna123b14_ESO

    Yes, Willpower is better than IA after factoring crits. A similar line of reasoning can be carried out but the maths is a bit messier which is why I chose to compare to Moondancer.

    Now how about this scenario: 3 willpower + 2 Torug swords VS 3 Aether jewelry and 2 aether swords. Surely then Aether is better for NB and Templar.

    Theoretically it should be... Good luck getting 2 sharpened Aether swords though.
    Playing since beta...
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    Asayre wrote: »
    @hedna123b14_ESO

    Yes, Willpower is better than IA after factoring crits. A similar line of reasoning can be carried out but the maths is a bit messier which is why I chose to compare to Moondancer.

    Now how about this scenario: 3 willpower + 2 Torug swords VS 3 Aether jewelry and 2 aether swords. Surely then Aether is better for NB and Templar.

    Theoretically it should be... Good luck getting 2 sharpened Aether swords though.

    So far I got a precise one...but I'll be hard farming it
  • kojou
    kojou
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    Asayre wrote: »
    @hedna123b14_ESO

    Yes, Willpower is better than IA after factoring crits. A similar line of reasoning can be carried out but the maths is a bit messier which is why I chose to compare to Moondancer.

    Now how about this scenario: 3 willpower + 2 Torug swords VS 3 Aether jewelry and 2 aether swords. Surely then Aether is better for NB and Templar.

    Theoretically it should be... Good luck getting 2 sharpened Aether swords though.

    So far I got a precise one...but I'll be hard farming it

    For weapons I got a 2 handed axe, 2 handed mace, and sharpened resto of Aether so far. I was in a group where someone got a sharpened flame staff, but he didn't want to give it to me. I have 2 sets each of the jewelry and all divines armor pieces I need though. I've even given away the gold jewelry to friends and guild mates since I don't need it anymore, but no swords. :neutral:
    Edited by kojou on August 31, 2016 6:29PM
    Playing since beta...
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    Asayre wrote: »
    @hedna123b14_ESO

    Yes, Willpower is better than IA after factoring crits. A similar line of reasoning can be carried out but the maths is a bit messier which is why I chose to compare to Moondancer.

    Now how about this scenario: 3 willpower + 2 Torug swords VS 3 Aether jewelry and 2 aether swords. Surely then Aether is better for NB and Templar.

    Theoretically it should be... Good luck getting 2 sharpened Aether swords though.

    So far I got a precise one...but I'll be hard farming it

    For weapons I got a 2 handed axe, 2 handed mace, and sharpened resto of Aether so far. I was in a group where someone got a sharpened flame staff, but he didn't wnat to give it to me. I have 2 sets each of the jewelry and all divines armor pieces I need though. I've even given away the gold jewelry to friends and guild mates since I don't need it anymore, but no swords. :neutral:

    Do the first boss farm...we are able to do 2 runs per 15 min...super fast
  • BANK_IT_HERE
    BANK_IT_HERE
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    Asayre wrote: »
    It's a very interesting topic and thank you for bringing it up @code65536. However, I disagree that Minor Slayer is always better than Willpower. Some endgame classes/builds will do better with Willpower. The main reason is that the average damage equation for ability looks something like this
    ff084859e43d81cee6161c6718f3542b.png
    where a is the ability coefficient, b is ~10.5, CP refers to boost from corresponding CP stars (e.g. Elemental Expert for Force Pulse) and Other refers to other multipliers like Minor Berserk or Minor Slayer. Minor Slayer is additive with Other multipliers thus its effectiveness decreases if you have Other multipliers.

    If we wanted to be a bit more mathematically vigorous, we could consider how each set impacts the average damage equation and the formulating equivalent equations on the addition of each set. So for instance, with the addition of Willpower, the average damage equation can be written as
    503bc341b573419d50e80ccee44ef2f6.png
    where M_0, S_0 are magicka and spell damage before the addition of Willpower. M_W and S_W correspond to the additional max magicka and spell damage granted by the Willpower set. C_0 and M correspond to critical chance and critical multiplier. M' is mitigation. Avg Dmg_Base is the same as the first equation.
    Similarly, upon the addition of Moondancer
    e596a67328b038c3a1d3fe4b19d46fe4.png
    where M_M is the additional magicka due to the Moondancer set and also includes an additional 60 magicka due to going from Epic to Legendary quality jewelry.

    The difference between the two being
    6c1a0bc094b5f4083bf8d850d552eb54.png
    The first four terms can be ignored as they are always positive and we only need to focus on the 4th term (everything inside the square brackets)

    The equation above is not particularly illuminating. But consider a Dunmer magicka DK running 5 Twice-Born Star, 2 Skoria, 1 Maelstrom staff and deciding between 3 Willpower and 3 Moondancer. The predicted stats for this character are
    2191ac66cb363d944f1cf8e18422c5a0.png
    I'm assuming max CP, legendary gear, Major and Minor Sorcery and constant Minor Berserk. With these numbers the equation above suggest that Willpower is favoured.

    So in summary, since Minor Slayer is additive with other multiplicative buffs like Minor Berserk or execute bonus (Radiant/Impale), I would suggest that Willpower is actually better for magicka Templars and Nightblades.

    This is obviously very old, but can't find more current info. Where does this stand now? Do you still believe WP better for templars and NB in raid situation? And what about solo situation such as VMA?
  • code65536
    code65536
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    Asayre wrote: »
    It's a very interesting topic and thank you for bringing it up @code65536. However, I disagree that Minor Slayer is always better than Willpower. Some endgame classes/builds will do better with Willpower. The main reason is that the average damage equation for ability looks something like this
    ff084859e43d81cee6161c6718f3542b.png
    where a is the ability coefficient, b is ~10.5, CP refers to boost from corresponding CP stars (e.g. Elemental Expert for Force Pulse) and Other refers to other multipliers like Minor Berserk or Minor Slayer. Minor Slayer is additive with Other multipliers thus its effectiveness decreases if you have Other multipliers.

    If we wanted to be a bit more mathematically vigorous, we could consider how each set impacts the average damage equation and the formulating equivalent equations on the addition of each set. So for instance, with the addition of Willpower, the average damage equation can be written as
    503bc341b573419d50e80ccee44ef2f6.png
    where M_0, S_0 are magicka and spell damage before the addition of Willpower. M_W and S_W correspond to the additional max magicka and spell damage granted by the Willpower set. C_0 and M correspond to critical chance and critical multiplier. M' is mitigation. Avg Dmg_Base is the same as the first equation.
    Similarly, upon the addition of Moondancer
    e596a67328b038c3a1d3fe4b19d46fe4.png
    where M_M is the additional magicka due to the Moondancer set and also includes an additional 60 magicka due to going from Epic to Legendary quality jewelry.

    The difference between the two being
    6c1a0bc094b5f4083bf8d850d552eb54.png
    The first four terms can be ignored as they are always positive and we only need to focus on the 4th term (everything inside the square brackets)

    The equation above is not particularly illuminating. But consider a Dunmer magicka DK running 5 Twice-Born Star, 2 Skoria, 1 Maelstrom staff and deciding between 3 Willpower and 3 Moondancer. The predicted stats for this character are
    2191ac66cb363d944f1cf8e18422c5a0.png
    I'm assuming max CP, legendary gear, Major and Minor Sorcery and constant Minor Berserk. With these numbers the equation above suggest that Willpower is favoured.

    So in summary, since Minor Slayer is additive with other multiplicative buffs like Minor Berserk or execute bonus (Radiant/Impale), I would suggest that Willpower is actually better for magicka Templars and Nightblades.

    This is obviously very old, but can't find more current info. Where does this stand now? Do you still believe WP better for templars and NB in raid situation? And what about solo situation such as VMA?

    For stamina, you're going to be using two 5p sets and a 2p monster set, so there's really no place for 3p Agility.

    For magicka, you'll typically be using a 5p set, a 2p monster set, and a jewelry set.

    And for magicka, it really comes down to what staves you are using. If you have neither Asylum nor vMA staves, then using 3p Willpower will leave you with orphaned spots for the staves, which is the main reason for going with a Slayer set, so you're not wasting that staff spot.

    If you are not using Force Shock (i.e., if you're a magblade), then once again you want to use Slayer, because your back bar will be vMA, and your front bar will be orphaned if you go with Willpower.

    If you are using Force Shock and are using both Asylum and vMA staves, then Willpower comes into consideration. The initial testing that I did in this thread over a year ago was devoid of any buffs like Minor Berserk. Plus, a lot had changed since then (e.g., the 8% damage bonuses from the destro passive and the minor indirect nerf to Willpower when they didn't scale up its stats in HotR), so you can pretty much disregard the OP of this thread.

    That having been said, I think Willpower and Slayer are pretty comparable, and you won't see that much difference in either direction, and being able to get an extra set bonus with a Slayer set when you're not doing Asylum+vMA is what will tip things in favor of the Slayer sets in those situations. But when you're using Asylum+vMA, I guess the best thing to do is to whack on a dummy and see what kinds of results you get for your build.
    Edited by code65536 on December 6, 2017 4:03PM
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