Stats Nerfed?

Asayre

The weapon/spell damage formula was and still is

Weapon damage = (Gear+Mundus)*Skills

It seems the patch was only to change recovery as detailed by @Reorx_Holybeard

ginoboehm

alakmir wrote: »

@ginoboehm kindly tell us the reason for this blunder ! Mag sorc (as u have always intended) are now bound to use destro/restro along with full defensive build coz of lowering this mag regen ... why u so cruel to mag sorcs ?? Kragnec and other offensive builds r useless now on mag sorc as our skills cost more and now u have intentionally lowered the mag regen.. idk if this is a fix to some problem or not but it was working well and now everything is meaningless ..

@alakmir what ? i am pretty sure you didn't mean me. i left the game a month ago or so.

Bashev

psychotic13 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

I didnt read all comments. What about the multiplicative weapon damage. Is it fixed too?

Weapon Damage was always addictive to begin with.

Weapon damage was multiplicative as was spell damage.

Any evidence of this? Cause I also believed it to be additive

It used to be 2000wd *1.12(medium)*1.2(buff)*1.08(dawnbreaker) and so on. It was multiplicative.

Reorx_Holybeard

Bashev wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

I didnt read all comments. What about the multiplicative weapon damage. Is it fixed too?

Weapon Damage was always addictive to begin with.

Weapon damage was multiplicative as was spell damage.

Any evidence of this? Cause I also believed it to be additive

It used to be 2000wd *1.12(medium)*1.2(buff)*1.08(dawnbreaker) and so on. It was multiplicative.

I'm not aware of any Spell/Weapon Damage modifier being multiplicative, at least going back several major updates. I can at least verify that it was additive for update 10 as I (and others) did extensive testing for our Build Editor.

olsborg

Willows path needs a buff, moreso it needs to be changed more into a stamina regen set, since magicka got amberplasm wich stomps willows path.

Vaoh

olsborg wrote: »

Willows path needs a buff, moreso it needs to be changed more into a stamina regen set, since magicka got amberplasm wich stomps willows path.

Doesn't work like that. If Magicka gets a nice set (or Stamina), then it doesn't mean a duplicate in the other stat needs to be made so everyone can use it. Plus Willow's Path is craftable

If that's the case, there should be a Magicka Velidreth, Viper's Sting, Widowmaker, Skirmisher (procs from casting a heal or shield) and Vicious Ophidian .... and if this happened the game would get really boring.

What I do agree with is that Willow's Path is great for low levels. I used it to solo Vet dungeons, run vMA, and 1vX in PvP with ~380CP a long time ago. There was apparently a bug before with regen drinks so that should get fixed.

Xeven

Asayre wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Something changed I think. I suspect the 4% from Grace Of The Ancients is not applying to Mage mundus as my magicka is ~60 points lower than expected.

Edit:
I'm not at home so I cant check my exact numbers.

Sorry, I don't have that set so I can't test it

@Asayre

I believe I have found the issue but I can not yet verify. There appears to be a new "PercentFromGear", and I believe the new formula is this:

(((Base + AP + Gear) * PercentFromGear * CPI) + Food + Mundus * Divines) * Skills

I was adding the 4% from Grace to Skills, but thats why I was missing a bit of expected magicka. It appears that PercentFromGear only applies to your Base, your AP, and your Gear.

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO

Wollust wrote: »

At first I was kinda pissed about losing regen, but after thinking about it I kinda like the change.
We have too much sustain and too much damage anyway. This game should be about resource management. Which we don't really have enough due to the massive power CPs give.

o.O what world you live in

ginoboehm

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

At first I was kinda pissed about losing regen, but after thinking about it I kinda like the change.
We have too much sustain and too much damage anyway. This game should be about resource management. Which we don't really have enough due to the massive power CPs give.

o.O what world you live in

the real world. this game has lost soo much after everyone is a limitless skill spamming max dps tank healer. at least in pvp.
and @wollust is one of the most experience players in the game he has a good feeling for changes in all regards

Troneon

Elder Scrolls Online...Nerfs/Bugs Unlimited...

Same old same old...

JJBoomer

Dracane wrote: »

Shouldn't your magicka be lower as well? @tribbsb16_ESO
But loosing that much magicka regen is HUGE ! This is such an evil change and they try to ninja it into the game when it goes live.

I wonder how many k Magicka I will loose due to that.
I wouldn't call this a bug fix. If percentages used to be multiplicative, then that's how it is. That's not wrong at all, because that's just how it is. Making them additive is a nerf, not a bug fix.

from what the patch notes says, it sounds like they were not supposed to be multiplicative and they were supposed to be additive in the first place. So changing them to what they were supposed to be, seems like it definitely falls into the category of a fix. a fix that ppl are upset about because it makes them a little bit weaker and because ppl don't know how to adapt.

ADarklore

JJBoomer wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Shouldn't your magicka be lower as well? @tribbsb16_ESO
But loosing that much magicka regen is HUGE ! This is such an evil change and they try to ninja it into the game when it goes live.

I wonder how many k Magicka I will loose due to that.
I wouldn't call this a bug fix. If percentages used to be multiplicative, then that's how it is. That's not wrong at all, because that's just how it is. Making them additive is a nerf, not a bug fix.

from what the patch notes says, it sounds like they were not supposed to be multiplicative and they were supposed to be additive in the first place. So changing them to what they were supposed to be, seems like it definitely falls into the category of a fix. a fix that ppl are upset about because it makes them a little bit weaker and because ppl don't know how to adapt.

@JJBoomer is exactly right! Just because a programmer accidentally types the wrong code doesn't suddenly make that error 'right' even if it takes months or years to discover the error. Just like with the Redguard passive, they discovered that the first point was 5/s, but every point after was entered as 3/s... so this update they FIXED it to the intended 5/s for all points. Funny how people keep telling ZOS to 'fix your game' but apparently that only applies to fixes that don't impact them. When dealing with thousands of miles of code, it's easy for things to get mis-typed and extremely difficult to track down... which is why many of these fixes come when they accidentally stumble across them while searching for something else- like with the Redguard passive.

alakmir

ginoboehm wrote: »

alakmir wrote: »

@ginoboehm kindly tell us the reason for this blunder ! Mag sorc (as u have always intended) are now bound to use destro/restro along with full defensive build coz of lowering this mag regen ... why u so cruel to mag sorcs ?? Kragnec and other offensive builds r useless now on mag sorc as our skills cost more and now u have intentionally lowered the mag regen.. idk if this is a fix to some problem or not but it was working well and now everything is meaningless ..

@alakmir what ? i am pretty sure you didn't mean me. i left the game a month ago or so.

haha sorry

alakmir

Grawlog wrote: »

I lost 130 Stam regeneration. Magicka isn't the only build affected by this fix. Put your tin foil conspiracy magicka nerf hats away.

oh smartpants ! seems like u have forgotten that magica skills cost more than ur stam skills!

melloni_aleb16_ESO

isn't a fix , is a " heavy nerf " . ( i agree with Dracane..)


before nerf roll dodge , then they were inserted poisons ( red stamina/magicka reg 60% <- worst idea couldnt exist) and now nerf all regen ...

Thank ZoS for ruining the game for soloer and small group .

Is this the direction you are taking ? ...i don't understand

you want only zerg ? ok but solve the lag

me_ming

Myerscod wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Why is everyone calling it a nerf? It's a bug fix. People were actually stronger than intended is all. I'd honestly wondered why my Magicka DPS had so much more Magicka than my Stamina DPS had Stamina...

^^^ this.

People cry when ZOS doesn't fix stuff.
People cry when ZOS does fix stuff.

No one cried to "fix" this though.

ADarklore

me_ming wrote: »

Myerscod wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Why is everyone calling it a nerf? It's a bug fix. People were actually stronger than intended is all. I'd honestly wondered why my Magicka DPS had so much more Magicka than my Stamina DPS had Stamina...

^^^ this.

People cry when ZOS doesn't fix stuff.
People cry when ZOS does fix stuff.

No one cried to "fix" this though.

Of course not, people never want things fixed that benefit them... they only want things fixed that hurt them. But when you ask for FIXES, you're going to get both types.

BigES

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

So it looks like the previous Magicka Recovery equation which was basically:

MagickaRegen = ((Base + Item + Mundus) * CP * Skill2 + Drink)*Skill

has been changed to:

MagickaRegen = (Base + Item + Mundus + Drink)*(Skill + CP + Skill2)

I haven't verified where "Skill2" is in the new formula but can verify that Drink is included in the base regen and the Skill/CP factors are now added together. I assume Stamina/Health recovery has been similarly changed and Magicka/Stamina/Health have been changed in a similar manner.

Note that if you're using drinks this will end up being a buff to your recovery rates.

Thanks for the formula!

I'm assuming Skill1 and Skill2 represent different magicka regen "categories"? For instance, damage reduction can be additive if they are from the same "source" like the "blocking" category. So are Skill1 are bonuses from "effects" like Major Intellect and skill based abilities would be added together? Like:

Skill1 = (major intellect + minor intellect + etc + etc)
Skill2 = (altmer passive + nightblade passive + vampire passive + etc + etc)

Or would it be like:

Skill1 = major intellect
Skill 2 = altmer passive
Skill 3 = nightblade passive
Skill 4 = ... so on

If the second case, I guess people drawing regeneration from multiple sources would be heavily nerfed...

Morimizo

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Why is everyone calling it a nerf? It's a bug fix. People were actually stronger than intended is all. I'd honestly wondered why my Magicka DPS had so much more Magicka than my Stamina DPS had Stamina...

The nerfmongers won't be happy until everyone has 1 weapon and spell damage and 10 HP, with NO regen.

Isn't there some statless, rpg-less MOBA where these folks could be happier?

Troneon

Morimizo wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Why is everyone calling it a nerf? It's a bug fix. People were actually stronger than intended is all. I'd honestly wondered why my Magicka DPS had so much more Magicka than my Stamina DPS had Stamina...

The nerfmongers won't be happy until everyone has 1 weapon and spell damage and 10 HP, with NO regen.

Isn't there some statless, rpg-less MOBA where these folks could be happier?

They are over compensating for how CP is making everyone super powerful and making most content no challenge at all.....

They are back peddling with stealth nerf and just claiming "we just fixing bugs"...HONEST!11!!

Typical ZOS...

Reorx_Holybeard

BigES wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

So it looks like the previous Magicka Recovery equation which was basically:

MagickaRegen = ((Base + Item + Mundus) * CP * Skill2 + Drink)*Skill

has been changed to:

MagickaRegen = (Base + Item + Mundus + Drink)*(Skill + CP + Skill2)

I haven't verified where "Skill2" is in the new formula but can verify that Drink is included in the base regen and the Skill/CP factors are now added together. I assume Stamina/Health recovery has been similarly changed and Magicka/Stamina/Health have been changed in a similar manner.

Note that if you're using drinks this will end up being a buff to your recovery rates.

Thanks for the formula!

I'm assuming Skill1 and Skill2 represent different magicka regen "categories"? For instance, damage reduction can be additive if they are from the same "source" like the "blocking" category. So are Skill1 are bonuses from "effects" like Major Intellect and skill based abilities would be added together? Like:

Skill1 = (major intellect + minor intellect + etc + etc)
Skill2 = (altmer passive + nightblade passive + vampire passive + etc + etc)

Or would it be like:

Skill1 = major intellect
Skill 2 = altmer passive
Skill 3 = nightblade passive
Skill 4 = ... so on

If the second case, I guess people drawing regeneration from multiple sources would be heavily nerfed...

In this case ''Skill2'' is actually only one skill that I know of: the Support passive Magicka Aid. Almost all recovery buffs were originally in the "Skill" class. Of course, now that everything is additive it doesn't matter for this particular formula.

Lucius_Aelius

So has anyone who uses Purple Drinks posted how their stats changed? I'm on Xbox so I have to wait to see how this affects me exactly, but so far there's been almost no mention of Drinks at all or how people who use them have been affected.

One person said that anyone using Drinks should notice a buff or some such, but they didn't post any evidence or specifics so I don't know what to think, and I'm curious how this will work for me once we get the patch on Consoles.

I already struggle with regen on my Builds but as much as anything that's because I don't use things that boost regen (apart from the Engine Guardian which won't be affected) and opt for Drinks instead of Food to compensate and make my Builds viable.

I'm honestly not terribly concerned, the drop other people have seen isn't that bad at all in my opinion, and even if mine drops I don't expect it to be by enough to be a problem (I already use Heavy Attacks frequently and use Heavy Armor so I get lots of my regen from things that don't seem to be affected by this change).

I am curious though, both for my own sake and for thinking about the meta in general. Drinks have been underused and (at least in my opinion) underpowered for a long time now (largely because most people just don't need them to be effective and get more out of Food since most people are Glass Cannon DPS builds), so if Drinks are actually being effectively buffed by this change then I think it's long overdue.

There's way too much emphasis on min/maxing in this game, which leads to lack of variety and boring gameplay, and anything ZOS can do to shift the pendulum back towards how things were when they had Softcaps is a welcome change for me.

susmitds

For some reason my Stamina Regen has gone up by at least 190 unbuffed but only 120 when buffed.

idk

IxskullzxI wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I love all the 'sky is falling' posts... we've gone through this over and over with each update. Something gets changed, everyone cries 'sky is falling'... and then we L2P all over again and realize that the sky really isn't falling, we just have to adjust how we play to compensate.

Because this was a 'fix'... if this had been correct all along people would have already L2P and all would be well... but because this came long after people were used to playing with the incorrect 'multiplicative instead of additive', the impact of the fix is now felt. But just as psychology studies have shown, most humans have a difficult time dealing with change... and that point is made clear with every update when these 'sky is falling' threads come out.

Well I find it a little weird that Gina said there was an issue with arcanist causing magicka regen to be lower than it should, and that it would be fixed by the time update 11 went live. Now that it's live, regen ends up being lower anyways because of a "fix" that wasn't talked about at all in PTS. We just want to know what exactly changed.

The change was mentioned in the patch notes. Fairly clear. Not saying I like, just saying it has been explained.

Waffennacht

When I hear "soft caps" I hear, "Every class will have the same stats"

Which I'm completely against.

I am glad there are no soft caps, they just need to make other aspects of the game on par with dps.

Lucius_Aelius

Waffennacht wrote: »

When I hear "soft caps" I hear, "Every class will have the same stats"

Which I'm completely against.

I am glad there are no soft caps, they just need to make other aspects of the game on par with dps.

I don't think we need softcaps, but I think the game was better in a lot of ways when we had them. Not that I got a chance to actually play the game with them since they were removed before it was released on Consoles, but I researched this game very heavily and theorycrafted my build back when the game came out on PC and was excited to try it out, only to be disappointed when I got the game after the delay and found everything very different, much for the worse.

Anything ZOS can do to backtrack a bit and de-emphasize min-maxing as the only way to achieve max viability is long overdue, doesn't mean we need softcaps back but it does mean that people who don't min/max need a lot of love. And as it is all the min/maxers pretty much have the same stats anyway as it is, so I fail to see what point you have about softcaps. If done correctly they would result in the exact opposite of what you suggest, encouraging variety and stopping min/maxers from being ridiculously more powerful than everyone else.

Preyfar

DDemon wrote: »

Lost almost 200 stam regen on my stam blade. Also, when applying the CP magica and stamina pool increased a tiny bit, but my health remained unchanged.

I did a race change to make one of my Argonians a Khajiit (I didn't need two magplars) and in full medium, with Khajiit racial passives and all my CP into regen I'm barely at 800. Yet, if I chug a potion, I go up to 1800. Something doesn't seem right.

psychotic13

Like I said in the other thread about this, Zos want to make fights last longer, that's exactly what's happening, the cost increase with the DB update and now this, it's making us focus more on regen at the cost of damage. This isn't really a bad thing imo.

Less damage + more sustain = longer fights.

Xeven

Xeven wrote: »

Asayre wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Something changed I think. I suspect the 4% from Grace Of The Ancients is not applying to Mage mundus as my magicka is ~60 points lower than expected.

Edit:
I'm not at home so I cant check my exact numbers.

Sorry, I don't have that set so I can't test it

@Asayre

I believe I have found the issue but I can not yet verify. There appears to be a new "PercentFromGear", and I believe the new formula is this:

(((Base + AP + Gear) * PercentFromGear * CPI) + Food + Mundus * Divines) * Skills

I was adding the 4% from Grace to Skills, but thats why I was missing a bit of expected magicka. It appears that PercentFromGear only applies to your Base, your AP, and your Gear.

When I was able to check, this formula was still high by a few magicka points.

It might be:

(Base + AP + Gear + Food + Mundus * Divines) * (CPI + Skills)

Where Grace is added to Skills, but again, I can not yet verify this.