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Stats Nerfed?

  • ScruffyWhiskers
    ScruffyWhiskers
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    makreth wrote: »
    cant you comprehend the situation before making asumptions...? He's not stamina focused meaning he's probably a magicka focused RACE with magicka percentage racial bonuses and low or none stamina percentage racial bonuses. The changes affect percentages accumulated from more than one source, from multiplicative to additive.

    Got it?

    Actually, I am (was very soon) a magicka melee Khajiit holdback from pre 1.6.

    Not sure how I lost the 800 magicka. Maybe the undaunted passives. My skill set up is the same as it was before I logged off last night...so I have a siphon on both bars. weird.

    So should I pick Breton now or Altmer? Hate to lose the tail but don't see a way around it now.

  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
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    makreth wrote: »
    cant you comprehend the situation before making asumptions...? He's not stamina focused meaning he's probably a magicka focused RACE with magicka percentage racial bonuses and low or none stamina percentage racial bonuses. The changes affect percentages accumulated from more than one source, from multiplicative to additive.

    Got it?

    Actually, I am (was very soon) a magicka melee Khajiit holdback from pre 1.6.

    Not sure how I lost the 800 magicka. Maybe the undaunted passives. My skill set up is the same as it was before I logged off last night...so I have a siphon on both bars. weird.

    So should I pick Breton now or Altmer? Hate to lose the tail but don't see a way around it now.

    I see what you did,lol.
    I'd go dunmer btw
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    makreth wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Just logged on here to see my new stats. LOL. Magicka recovery is down about 100 points 1700 ish to 1600 ish. Don't think the "fix" changed stam recovery as it is still 775.

    Magicka is down 800 or so. Stam seems to be the same but I'm not 100% sure since I don't focus on it like I do magicka.

    Niiiice. So only a magicka related nerf. As if Magicka could take even more hits.

    cant you comprehend the situation before making asumptions...? He's not stamina focused meaning he's probably a magicka focused RACE with magicka percentage racial bonuses and low or none stamina percentage racial bonuses. The changes affect percentages accumulated from more than one source, from multiplicative to additive.

    Got it?

    I refuse
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • makreth
    makreth
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    makreth wrote: »
    cant you comprehend the situation before making asumptions...? He's not stamina focused meaning he's probably a magicka focused RACE with magicka percentage racial bonuses and low or none stamina percentage racial bonuses. The changes affect percentages accumulated from more than one source, from multiplicative to additive.

    Got it?

    Actually, I am (was very soon) a magicka melee Khajiit holdback from pre 1.6.

    Not sure how I lost the 800 magicka. Maybe the undaunted passives. My skill set up is the same as it was before I logged off last night...so I have a siphon on both bars. weird.

    So should I pick Breton now or Altmer? Hate to lose the tail but don't see a way around it now.

    being a khajiit wouldn't matter as that race has no magicka percentage passives so this change doesnt affect you as far as race is concerned. You should try and locate where your percentage +% max magicka is coming from and calculate that. Undaunted is one source yes, but this change has to do with two or more simultaneous sources (remember multiplicative bonuseds became additive).


    Now about your question of changing race, well i'm not here to point the finger but.... you should play what you enjoy the most... unless you're a min-max 'er
  • makreth
    makreth
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    Mojmir wrote: »
    makreth wrote: »
    cant you comprehend the situation before making asumptions...? He's not stamina focused meaning he's probably a magicka focused RACE with magicka percentage racial bonuses and low or none stamina percentage racial bonuses. The changes affect percentages accumulated from more than one source, from multiplicative to additive.

    Got it?

    Actually, I am (was very soon) a magicka melee Khajiit holdback from pre 1.6.

    Not sure how I lost the 800 magicka. Maybe the undaunted passives. My skill set up is the same as it was before I logged off last night...so I have a siphon on both bars. weird.

    So should I pick Breton now or Altmer? Hate to lose the tail but don't see a way around it now.

    I see what you did,lol.
    I'd go dunmer btw

    hm dunmer has 2 sources of +% max magicka on their racial passives right? :) Just saying
  • Dagoth_Rac
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    Stam regen on my Imperial Templar went from 843 to 806. That is actually a pretty serious nerf when you are as starved for resources as your typical Imperial Stamplar is. So basically they gave us some more stats via the CP increase, but then took them away (and more) with this nerf to stars in the CP tree. Should have at least given us enough new CP to get back to where we were. :-(

    I guess I could always pay cash to race change to Redguard. Maybe that was the point...
  • makreth
    makreth
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    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    Stam regen on my Imperial Templar went from 843 to 806. That is actually a pretty serious nerf when you are as starved for resources as your typical Imperial Stamplar is. So basically they gave us some more stats via the CP increase, but then took them away (and more) with this nerf to stars in the CP tree. Should have at least given us enough new CP to get back to where we were. :-(

    I guess I could always pay cash to race change to Redguard. Maybe that was the point...

    What about your max stamina-health? If we take into account your passives + undaunted passive at least, you should notice a decrease there as well.
  • Dagoth_Rac
    Dagoth_Rac
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    makreth wrote: »
    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    Stam regen on my Imperial Templar went from 843 to 806. That is actually a pretty serious nerf when you are as starved for resources as your typical Imperial Stamplar is. So basically they gave us some more stats via the CP increase, but then took them away (and more) with this nerf to stars in the CP tree. Should have at least given us enough new CP to get back to where we were. :-(

    I guess I could always pay cash to race change to Redguard. Maybe that was the point...

    What about your max stamina-health? If we take into account your passives + undaunted passive at least, you should notice a decrease there as well.

    I don't remember exact numbers for them so don't know if they have changed or how much. I just remember my stam regen because it was low already and is always an issue on this build. So that I immediately noticed had gone lower.
  • Yolokin_Swagonborn
    Yolokin_Swagonborn
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Shouldn't your magicka be lower as well? @tribbsb16_ESO
    But loosing that much magicka regen is HUGE ! This is such an evil change and they try to ninja it into the game when it goes live.

    I wonder how many k Magicka I will loose due to that.

    Probably about 10 Magicka :wink: Please resist the temptation to break the forums again in protest. Things are finally back to normal since the last time...
  • nilldax
    nilldax
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    This is rather fix than nerf - before it propably looked like (max MG):
    20 000 x 1,06(undaunted) x 1,08(Bound Aegis)....
    Now it, in my guessing is:
    20 000 + 0,06 x 20 000 + 0,08 x 20 000..... and so on in both cases

    My NB was hanging (in Azura) on 30k of HP (max HP/STregen food, undaunted, Imperial, NB shadow pasisves, Ayleid buff, Emperor in alliance), while still managing 4100 WD on full buff (not counting SPC). Kinda huge value for DD.

    In short - finally "rightly" done math.
    Edited by nilldax on August 1, 2016 10:04PM
  • Forestd16b14_ESO
    Forestd16b14_ESO
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    Mustard wrote: »
    This is the new ZOS soft caps and first phase!

    @Sypher

    AttackTitanep145.jpg

    .............. Is ZoS actually listing to players ?
  • Parafrost
    Parafrost
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    Im lost.
  • Ghost-Shot
    Ghost-Shot
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    Why is everyone calling it a nerf? It's a bug fix. People were actually stronger than intended is all. I'd honestly wondered why my Magicka DPS had so much more Magicka than my Stamina DPS had Stamina...

    But you werent wondering why your stamina dps skills were so much cheaper than magicka dps skills?

    Also, this will affect both stam and mag.

    There are some Stamina skills that are questionably pricy, such as Circle of Protection.

    You heal with blood altar don't you?
  • nimander99
    nimander99
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    It is rather amusing that a nerf, that people would obviously not like, didnt make it to the test realm. And on a test realm where 2 brand new dungeons were being tested for feel. Which lowered damage would certainly affect.

    But until i know how much it is, it is hard to care to much about.

    Well said. Conspiracy with logic. I agree wholeheartedly.
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  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Shouldn't your magicka be lower as well? @tribbsb16_ESO
    But loosing that much magicka regen is HUGE ! This is such an evil change and they try to ninja it into the game when it goes live.

    I wonder how many k Magicka I will loose due to that.

    Probably about 10 Magicka :wink: Please resist the temptation to break the forums again in protest. Things are finally back to normal since the last time...

    Took me a moment to get it.
    Why does your memory have to be so good ? I was hoping, nobody remembers that incident.
    10 Magicka was a serious concern and this time it will be 100 times that amount or more.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • AzuraKin
    AzuraKin
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    i just gonna point out to all you idjits who trying to say this effects stamina users as much as it does magicka users. get of your drugs people, what max stamina / stamina regen bonus' are there? i will tell you cp (stam regen) medium armor (stam regen) sorc (max stam) couple racial passives, undaunted. only 1 class passive (nightblade) and both sub-races. guess what *** magicka users get all that plus many more and quite a few skills are so expensive for magicka users while being crucial for situations like pvp that number of healers in pvp run 5k+ regen and give up a hell of a ton to reach that. know i dont know about ya'll but healers are already underpowered in pvp compared to dps especially stamina dps. i know my healers are gonna have to probably heavy attack 2-3x as often which will mean people will die 5x as easy.
    v160 spellsword (nightblade)
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  • andreasranasen
    andreasranasen
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    @Doncellius do you think we good or nah? I don't feel like getting my sorc even more butchered patch after patch lol
    #VMATOKENSYSTEM #WEAPONDYE #TRAITCHANGE #CROWNCRATELOVER
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  • Reorx_Holybeard
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    So it looks like the previous Magicka Recovery equation which was basically:
    MagickaRegen = ((Base + Item + Mundus) * CP * Skill2 + Drink)*Skill
    
    has been changed to:
    MagickaRegen = (Base + Item + Mundus + Drink)*(Skill + CP + Skill2)
    

    I haven't verified where "Skill2" is in the new formula but can verify that Drink is included in the base regen and the Skill/CP factors are now added together. I assume Stamina/Health recovery has been similarly changed and Magicka/Stamina/Health have been changed in a similar manner.

    Note that if you're using drinks this will end up being a buff to your recovery rates.
    Edited by Reorx_Holybeard on August 1, 2016 11:39PM
    Reorx Holybeard -- NA/PC
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  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Shouldn't your magicka be lower as well? @tribbsb16_ESO
    But loosing that much magicka regen is HUGE ! This is such an evil change and they try to ninja it into the game when it goes live.

    I wonder how many k Magicka I will loose due to that.
    I wouldn't call this a bug fix. If percentages used to be multiplicative, then that's how it is. That's not wrong at all, because that's just how it is. Making them additive is a nerf, not a bug fix.

    No percentages in stats were never multiplicative. They were always additive. What they fixed was a bug where sometimes they would stack multiplicatively and not additively.

    For example for magicka : you had 8% from Nightblade Siphonning Passive, you had 7% from Inner Light and you were a High Elf (10%).
    You'd get a bonus of 25% max magicka.
    @ Izaki #PCEU
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  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    Doncellius wrote: »
    From the newest patch notes (2.5.5):

    Fixed an issue where percentage bonuses to the same type of stat (Magicka Recovery, Max Magicka, etc.) would stack multiplicatively rather than additively. This will result in some stats changing slightly (generally going down).

    This seems rather important, especially to just apply without testing on PTS and pushing to Live.

    I have questions on how it will affect many different builds that no one could've tested. Won't this cause Emperors to have much lower stats too? I don't know.... this change simply stood out to me.

    Any thoughts on how it will change things, for better or worse?

    You misunderstood what they meant. They are fixing bugs where percentages would be multiplied instead of being added. Like Aggressive Warhom for example was multiplicative and it was a bug.
    @ Izaki #PCEU
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  • Reorx_Holybeard
    Reorx_Holybeard
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    Has anyone actually lost/gained Magicka after the patch? I'm trying to figure out where/who the Magicka formula was changed. As far as I know there were no cases where Magicka passives were stacking multiplicatively unless it was on a specific set that no one uses.

    The formula as we know it for Magicka is:
    Magicka = ((Base + Item) * CP + Food + Mundus) * Skill
    

    The only option here is to move the CP factor out and make it additive with skills, like in the recovery, however I see no change in my Magicka with or without food from before the patch so it cannot be that.
    Edited by Reorx_Holybeard on August 1, 2016 11:38PM
    Reorx Holybeard -- NA/PC
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  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    @Doncellius do you think we good or nah? I don't feel like getting my sorc even more butchered patch after patch lol

    This shouldn't hurt any build too much. At least I hope not. For Magicka Sorcs, Max Magicka is more important than on any other class spec because our shields scale from it. This may have been hit but it is too early to tell.

    Honestly I don't know man.... hopefully it doesn't change much but I don't know. What worries me is that ZOS waited until PTS eneded to add this in, which is similar to how they held off telling us appearance/race/name change token prices until recently. Never turns out good :(

    @Asayre You are awesome at the math stuff.... I trust your judgement :|
    Edited by Vaoh on August 2, 2016 12:05AM
  • psychotic13
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    Yeah @Asayre we're all waiting for your reply hoping you have the answer to this
  • andreasranasen
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    @Doncellius I know! Same that majority of the "new hairstyles" didn't even make it to Live... I'm livid tbh about this whole style parlor thing... :neutral:

    And now we may have to deal with this without even telling us lol.
    Edited by andreasranasen on August 2, 2016 12:23AM
    #VMATOKENSYSTEM #WEAPONDYE #TRAITCHANGE #CROWNCRATELOVER
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  • Kronuxx
    Kronuxx
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    nilldax wrote: »
    This is rather fix than nerf - before it propably looked like (max MG):
    20 000 x 1,06(undaunted) x 1,08(Bound Aegis)....
    Now it, in my guessing is:
    20 000 + (0.06 x 20 000) + (0.08 x 20 000)..... and so on in both cases

    My NB was hanging (in Azura) on 30k of HP (max HP/STregen food, undaunted, Imperial, NB shadow pasisves, Ayleid buff, Emperor in alliance), while still managing 4100 WD on full buff (not counting SPC). Kinda huge value for DD.

    In short - finally "rightly" done math.

    This is exactly how I think it is done now as this coincides with the testing I did in PTS with % stamina boost and % health boost passives to max stamina/health pools, which is more appropriate.

    Fixed your quote in bold for order of operations.
    Edited by Kronuxx on August 2, 2016 12:47AM
  • ixie
    ixie
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    Kronuxx wrote: »
    nilldax wrote: »
    This is rather fix than nerf - before it propably looked like (max MG):
    20 000 x 1,06(undaunted) x 1,08(Bound Aegis)....
    Now it, in my guessing is:
    20 000 + (0.06 x 20 000) + (0.08 x 20 000)..... and so on in both cases

    My NB was hanging (in Azura) on 30k of HP (max HP/STregen food, undaunted, Imperial, NB shadow pasisves, Ayleid buff, Emperor in alliance), while still managing 4100 WD on full buff (not counting SPC). Kinda huge value for DD.

    In short - finally "rightly" done math.

    This is exactly how I think it is done now as this coincides with the testing I did in PTS with % stamina boost and % health boost passives to max stamina/health pools, which is more appropriate.

    Fixed your quote in bold for order of operations.

    My nightblade is a breton, so 10% max magicka, her magicka stat is the same now as before the patch, she has however lost 119 magicka recovery. I took a screenshot before logging off yesterday as there was a bug with recovery on PTS, @ZOS_GinaBruno indicated it was something to do with the champ passive Arcanist in this post https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3208132/#Comment_3208132
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  • IxskullzxI
    IxskullzxI
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    Kronuxx wrote: »
    nilldax wrote: »
    This is rather fix than nerf - before it propably looked like (max MG):
    20 000 x 1,06(undaunted) x 1,08(Bound Aegis)....
    Now it, in my guessing is:
    20 000 + (0.06 x 20 000) + (0.08 x 20 000)..... and so on in both cases

    My NB was hanging (in Azura) on 30k of HP (max HP/STregen food, undaunted, Imperial, NB shadow pasisves, Ayleid buff, Emperor in alliance), while still managing 4100 WD on full buff (not counting SPC). Kinda huge value for DD.

    In short - finally "rightly" done math.

    This is exactly how I think it is done now as this coincides with the testing I did in PTS with % stamina boost and % health boost passives to max stamina/health pools, which is more appropriate.

    Fixed your quote in bold for order of operations.

    My nightblade is a breton, so 10% max magicka, her magicka stat is the same now as before the patch, she has however lost 119 magicka recovery. I took a screenshot before logging off yesterday as there was a bug with recovery on PTS, @ZOS_GinaBruno indicated it was something to do with the champ passive Arcanist in this post https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3208132/#Comment_3208132

    So you lost regen when you shouldn't have? Did they not fix the bug?
    Edited by IxskullzxI on August 2, 2016 1:51AM
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  • IcyDeadPeople
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    So it looks like the previous Magicka Recovery equation which was basically:
    MagickaRegen = ((Base + Item + Mundus) * CP * Skill2 + Drink)*Skill
    
    has been changed to:
    MagickaRegen = (Base + Item + Mundus + Drink)*(Skill + CP + Skill2)
    

    I haven't verified where "Skill2" is in the new formula but can verify that Drink is included in the base regen and the Skill/CP factors are now added together. I assume Stamina/Health recovery has been similarly changed and Magicka/Stamina/Health have been changed in a similar manner.

    Note that if you're using drinks this will end up being a buff to your recovery rates.

    Can we take a moment to discuss Willow's Path?
    Edited by IcyDeadPeople on August 2, 2016 2:48AM
  • KochDerDamonen
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    Just logged on here to see my new stats. LOL. Magicka recovery is down about 100 points 1700 ish to 1600 ish. Don't think the "fix" changed stam recovery as it is still 775.

    Magicka is down 800 or so. Stam seems to be the same but I'm not 100% sure since I don't focus on it like I do magicka.

    It would only affect your stam regen if you had multiple % buffs to the stat.

    So for people who would, for instance, play an Altmer Nightblade and slot a siphoning skill, previously one max magicka buff would apply and then the other, causing one of the buffs to buff the other buff. Now it will just add the %s together.
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  • AGrz5585
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    I lost 100 stam regen on my NB and 100 mag regen on my templar.

    Guess I'm going to have to make a few tweaks to get back those loses
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