Dawnbreaker of smiting's stun should go.

KenaPKK

@GreenSoup2HoT that's a feature of teleport strike. Literally always been that way, contributes to the skill ceiling of nightblade. You can cloak and stun with veiled strike if you tele strike quickly enough, barring any AoEs or other sources of detection present.

The issue was that the DB didn't stun. Interesting. Immov pot maybe? I didn't see cc immunity swirlies, but I'm on a tiny phone screen.

@Jaronking no one complained about DB initially because everyone accepted the stun change as too strong. It was sort of the understood silent tag-along in all those Incap threads. Both were reckless changes by ZOS.

GreenSoup2HoT

@KenaPKK Yeah i know its a feature intended or not. Zos never really stated if it was or not either.

KenaPKK

@GreenSoup2HoT do they need to?

GreenSoup2HoT

KenaPKK wrote: »

@GreenSoup2HoT do they need to?

maybe say so in the tooltip would be nice.

zuto40

Xvorg wrote: »

KundaliniHero wrote: »

Meteor is super easy to avoid, the only time I ever die to it is if I am out of stamina this is due to the fact it blatantly advertises its approach and gives you ample time to prepare for the hit (ie; block and walk out). Experienced players don't even worry about meteor all that much I would suspect.

You need Meteor and a long range disable skill. For NBs, Agony is perfect (prolongued suffering ideally).

ive always considered agony useless in pvp, but now ill have to try it out

zuto40

KenaPKK wrote: »

@GreenSoup2HoT that's a feature of teleport strike. Literally always been that way, contributes to the skill ceiling of nightblade. You can cloak and stun with veiled strike if you tele strike quickly enough, barring any AoEs or other sources of detection present.

The issue was that the DB didn't stun. Interesting. Immov pot maybe? I didn't see cc immunity swirlies, but I'm on a tiny phone screen.

there were no swirlies i could see on my computer but the weird thing was about it is that it missed 100% as if i was DBing empty space, there was no initial damage, no dot, no cc, not even a dodge appeared on my screen

Tormy

This is a L2P issue tbh

KenaPKK

Agony is garbage. It's great for lining up a meteor on some pug in the distance, or for stopping Jesus beamers, but the moment you have to use it close up in an actual fight as an actual cc, you might as well not have it on your bar. A single tick if dots or ambient damage breaks the cc and gives them cc immunity.

I used it for a brief period in a one shot combo with meteor and assassin's will. While that was fun, it only really excelled when firing down onto siege lines from keep walks. An agony meteor combo won't work on a competent player since agony can be blocked -- either you use it quickly and they break free in time to block the meteor, or they pop block up for the meteor, and your agony fails -- so I retired that build ages ago.

BUFF AGONY

Valencer

I honestly find Meteor much worse to fight against. The meteor goes through block randomly (which often results in death) and when youre forced to block meteors when fighting outnumbered your stamina pool usually takes a big hit that you might not be able to afford.

Theyre both annoying burst ultimates but that's more of a problem with burst in this game being insanely high since forever.

Ashamray

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Make Meteor Cloakable and Reflectable and we will talk.

Meteor should be cloak able and reflectable dunno why zos even changed it.

This come straight from wrobels mouth " we want meteor to be on par with all the other ultimates. Thats why we made it non-reflectable and no -cloakable "

Yea the already most powerful ult in the game appearntly on par with the other ults

First, reflectable Meteor is not good for game perfomance. Second, high cost slow blockable ultimate that can be completely negated by simple skills is nonsense.
When Meteor is blocked, its damage is pitiful btw.

KenaPKK

Meteor is really bad for PvP. Just block it and move on like nothing ever happened. Lol

Forestd16b14_ESO

Ashamray wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Make Meteor Cloakable and Reflectable and we will talk.

Meteor should be cloak able and reflectable dunno why zos even changed it.

This come straight from wrobels mouth " we want meteor to be on par with all the other ultimates. Thats why we made it non-reflectable and no -cloakable "

Yea the already most powerful ult in the game appearntly on par with the other ults

First, reflectable Meteor is not good for game perfomance. Second, high cost slow blockable ultimate that can be completely negated by simple skills is nonsense.
When Meteor is blocked, its damage is pitiful btw.

Hmm key word when it's blocked but thing is blocking means jack to nothing in PvP cause you know if you don't invest into like Wrobel is forcing your stamina drains stupidly fast and most pvp players are smart to you know cast meteor then immediately cast a CC such as fossilize, streak, fear and so on.

Meteor is a top tier ult and now DB is too. Seriously you magicka users need to stop whining about stamina users already either adapt to the changes or die it's called evolution and it's a natural occurrence in anything and everything.

Qbiken

ESO community (at least most of it): Nerf everything that makes a good combo in PvP and ignore the facts how it could affect PvE....

danno8

zuto40 wrote: »

Bonus points to whoever can spot to whats wrong with this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51An76JmahM

Since DB is an AoE cone effect, it will have the same problem as any other AoE cone effect: randomly missing. If you ever play Templar you know that PS or BJ has issues landing even if you are facing your opponent properly.

It can also be due to the way that certain AoE's have a sort of "catch-up" mechanic when moving toward opponents. That is to say you have to wait a moment after being in range for the game to recognize that you are actually in range. Templar's Empowering/Crescent Sweep are really bad for this.

(if you watch your video in slo-mo, you will see that the skill doesn't land at all, no damage, not just the stun not working)

Armitas

#Dawnbreaker needs a synergy where you drive a stake through them while they are knocked down.

thesesneaksaredopeb14a_ESO

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm guessing you've been killed by DBS a few times and now you want it nerfed so it doesn't bother you anymore.

I guess you use Dbs and are happy using op abilities.

Why yes I am

By the way, this is the reason why ESO either needs to get rid of PvP all together, (they won't) or redefine skills as PvP or PvE. PvE skills work differently, ie more balanced in PvP. As an example, Dbs works exactly as it does now in PvE, and in PvP it's stun ability is lowered or removed completely. This would solve so many skill/class balance issues in PvP without screwing the PvE players.

This game was basically advertised for the pvp component

thesesneaksaredopeb14a_ESO

But seriously stop asking for nerfs. I dont know if youve played a mmo before where the devs get nerf happy because ppl keep crying about pvp. But it makes everyone leave. pvp and pve you wont have any fun when its barely anyone left to play with

KenaPKK

Wait are there really PvE qqers here? Gtfo lol dawnbreaker's knockdown doesn't affect PvE for jack. Since when does a cc impact your dps parse? If you're using DBoS in your rotation, you have bigger problems. Look into the other morph or meteor.

It's people like you mucking up perfectly justified PvP discussions that divert the devs' attention and give us all poor balance.

You cannot program or control players. Therefore, you balance player skills and armor sets around PvP first. Always. Period. No exceptions. You then come back around and balance PvE mobs and encounters around the PvP balance changes in response.

We do not have nor want separate PvE and PvP balancing because that would deter players from playing both PvE and PvP content. Therefore, this is how it must be done.

code65536

I think the stun's fine. A bit underwhelming, even. I was making my way back to the sewer base today when Kosmoko ganked me. I panicked, threw a DBoS in his face, and tried to escape. He broke free and was chasing me before I got more than a couple of meters away. Le sigh.

Ishammael

100ult
Unlockable knockdown
>30k tooltip (low end)
10m AoE cone


Please name an ultimate that is even remotely close.

Hempyre

30k tooltip... Lolz

ranged vs melee ulti... Is not reasonably comparable. DB should hit harder, higher risk of use. Never seen 30k, or near it on my tool tips. A lot of exaggeration in these nerf threads...

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm guessing you've been killed by DBS a few times and now you want it nerfed so it doesn't bother you anymore.

his points are all legit. there is a clear balance issue.

im guessing you run over people with DBS while loling to yourself whenever someone casts meteor on you. thats what any stam build should be doing, and they know it if they have magica build too.

if they were the same ult cost i could let the issue lay, but its 100% less ult! lol for real a arguably better ult is 100% less cost. right no issue here everyone go home.

KenaPKK

Reduce upfront damage. Leave dot how it is or increase to compensate. Stamplar, stam sorc, and stam dk can make use of a reliable cc. That's where my opinion has shifted to on this one.

I still think the Incap stun change should be reverted and its damage unchanged.

thankyourat

susmitds wrote: »

Make Meteor Cloakable and Reflectable and we will talk.

That would just make dbos even more powerful than meteor lol it's already

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Make Meteor Cloakable and Reflectable and we will talk.

Meteor should be cloak able and reflectable dunno why zos even changed it.

This come straight from wrobels mouth " we want meteor to be on par with all the other ultimates. Thats why we made it non-reflectable and no -cloakable "

Yea the already most powerful ult in the game appearntly on par with the other ults

Most powerful in PvE before this patch I wouldn't have ever used it in PvP it just wasn't as good because it was

Hempyre wrote: »

30k tooltip... Lolz

ranged vs melee ulti... Is not reasonably comparable. DB should hit harder, higher risk of use. Never seen 30k, or near it on my tool tips. A lot of exaggeration in these nerf threads...

If you don't use meteor in melee range you would never hit anyone with it. I hate the whole melee vs range argument. No one can ever fight at range in this game to many gap closers. But meteor hits way harder than dbos I don't think I've ever hit someone for less than 10k on my shooting star lol I've even hit people for 19k. What makes dbos better is it's not telegraphed so you can surprise someone with it. They are both good ultimates but in game performance dbos is out performing meteor but it always has i don't see what's new here that's why last patch most magicka users used it over meteor. Meteor should only cost 175 ultimate and dbos should go up to 125 ultimate

zuto40

On my mageblade I use meteor, never had a problem with it at range even though it is blockable I usually use it on groups and on someone with high health in that group and just target the other people who don't block it with my heavy and spectral bow, just requires thinking and meteor is much better then dB's, so far my meteors have always hit harder and have been more useful then my dbs ever has been

Torbschka

tennant94 wrote: »

As the title says. The stun element of this skills makes it too strong in pvp especially when compared with meteor.

Dbs > meteor.

Dbs and meteor are both undodgeable.

Dbs upfront damage is only slightly lower than meteor.

Dbs dot component sticks to players compared to meteor which is ground based, meaning 100% damage on dot(unless purged).

Dbs aoe range is 10 metres, meteors is 5 metres.

Dbs can be animation cancelled allowing a 100% chance it will stun and apply dot, meteor cannot be animation cancelled, takes 2 seconds to hit and gives players a white circle to indicate the ultimate is about to hit you.

Dbs stun duration is longer than meteors.

Dbs costs 100, meteor costs 200.

To summarise, Dbs costs half that of meteor but is twice as good. Remove the stun from dbs and allow it to only stun undead again or have it give you a telegraph similar to meteors, y'know so you can actually react and block instead of being stunned after having no opportunity to dodge or block the skill.

Plz, no

I wont argue if its op or not, maybe it is, I use it even as mag sorc. But heres the thing: its the only way to still play dual wield sorcerer in pvp, because with 34 in +% phys. dmg I still able to burst with curse/Db into frag. Without that DW sorc is pretty much dead again (well, it sucks still hard right now compared to destro/restro, but some people just like the playstyle, like me). Give me trapping webs again and u can have the dawnbreaker :P

If u refuse the stun u defnitely have to nerf 50 stam nb ult also, and stun and dmg wise lol. This is far superior to dawnbreaker in my opinion.

Bakven

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Hows about up the speed of meteor?

I agree, make it instant instead of 2 seconds and don't give any indication. Imo it'll make combat a lot better because meter is almost unused unless the enemy is at low health, or you're trying to relieve pressure from a group attacking you (not counting using it to attack ppl on top of keeps, towers, etc.)

As for the DBoS, I say make it dodgable or have the dot just in the area same as meteor. I dont' think we should do both, just one or the other. Another possible alteration would be make it cost 150 ultimate instead of 100.

Ishammael

Hempyre wrote: »

30k tooltip... Lolz

ranged vs melee ulti... Is not reasonably comparable. DB should hit harder, higher risk of use. Never seen 30k, or near it on my tool tips. A lot of exaggeration in these nerf threads...

30k tooltip is easy. Even without points in Mighty. High weapon dmg stam builds will push close to 40k

I'm counting the initial plus the DoT.

KenaPKK wrote: »

Reduce upfront damage. Leave dot how it is or increase to compensate. Stamplar, stam sorc, and stam dk can make use of a reliable cc. That's where my opinion has shifted to on this one.

I still think the Incap stun change should be reverted and its damage unchanged.

I think even if the upfront dmg were halved people would still use it. So that's probably a good suggestion.

Hempyre

SS of 30k -40k tool tip pls.

Ishammael

Hempyre wrote: »

SS of 30k -40k tool tip pls.

Go watch Alcast latest videos, or anything with a stam build.