Damage Mitigation: Explanation UPDATED 21/03/2021

Asmael

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

This is not tanking related but i thought this may be the right place to ask.

Question: How much percentage does a Fire Resistance Jewelry Glyph (3520 fire resist) reduce?

Base mitigation value for maxed out chars is 662 per % (from which we know the hard cap, which is 662 * 50 = 33100).

So 3520 fire resist converts to 5.317% mitigation (added to base armor value as stated by OP).

JAMESLJNR

So am I correct in thinking that since full gold impen gives us 27% resist divide that by 7 and you get the % crit resit per piece of gold impen, which is 3.86%?

Autolycus

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Does it matter ? With how OP penetration and resistance reduction skills are resistance mitigation isn't really the most reliable source of defense which is why you still aren't seeing to many HA users or tanks in PvP.

Don't even [to hawt for the forums] say Malubeth and perma-blocking. That is cheese build and any one using it are cheese players and are not in no way true tanks.

There is more to this game than pvp.

Asmael

Autolycus wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Does it matter ? With how OP penetration and resistance reduction skills are resistance mitigation isn't really the most reliable source of defense which is why you still aren't seeing to many HA users or tanks in PvP.

Don't even [to hawt for the forums] say Malubeth and perma-blocking. That is cheese build and any one using it are cheese players and are not in no way true tanks.

There is more to this game than pvp.

Ssssh, he's indirectly asking to buff tanks, don't prevent him from doing so

Autolycus

Asmael wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Does it matter ? With how OP penetration and resistance reduction skills are resistance mitigation isn't really the most reliable source of defense which is why you still aren't seeing to many HA users or tanks in PvP.

Don't even [to hawt for the forums] say Malubeth and perma-blocking. That is cheese build and any one using it are cheese players and are not in no way true tanks.

There is more to this game than pvp.

Ssssh, he's indirectly asking to buff tanks, don't prevent him from doing so

Lol, and why would I want a buff to tanks?

Asmael

Autolycus wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Does it matter ? With how OP penetration and resistance reduction skills are resistance mitigation isn't really the most reliable source of defense which is why you still aren't seeing to many HA users or tanks in PvP.

Don't even [to hawt for the forums] say Malubeth and perma-blocking. That is cheese build and any one using it are cheese players and are not in no way true tanks.

There is more to this game than pvp.

Ssssh, he's indirectly asking to buff tanks, don't prevent him from doing so

Lol, and why would I want a buff to tanks?

No reason in particular, besides becoming stronger, and finally being able to tank every single dungeon naked and with 1 ability slotted.

...Wait that's already doable. Alright, let's nerf tanks instead.

Kappa.

paulsimonps

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

This is not tanking related but i thought this may be the right place to ask.

Question: How much percentage does a Fire Resistance Jewelry Glyph (3520 fire resist) reduce?

@GreenSoup2HoT

As someone else also said, it will mitigate about 5.3% of the damage. Basically its like this. Resistance to a specific damage type, like Fire, Shock, Ice, Disease and Poison it will simply add that resistance to your base Physical or Spell resistance for that specific attack, note that if you hit hard cap in either then a Glyph or other type of increases in those types of resistances will do nothing. So say you have 32000 spell resistance and you add a fire resist glyph thats 2000 then you will land on 34000 spell resist for fire, but hard cap is 33100 so those 900 extra does nothing. But you will only have that extra spell resist against fire and will be below hard cap for all other types.

GreenSoup2HoT

paulsimonps wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

This is not tanking related but i thought this may be the right place to ask.

Question: How much percentage does a Fire Resistance Jewelry Glyph (3520 fire resist) reduce?

@GreenSoup2HoT

As someone else also said, it will mitigate about 5.3% of the damage. Basically its like this. Resistance to a specific damage type, like Fire, Shock, Ice, Disease and Poison it will simply add that resistance to your base Physical or Spell resistance for that specific attack, note that if you hit hard cap in either then a Glyph or other type of increases in those types of resistances will do nothing. So say you have 32000 spell resistance and you add a fire resist glyph thats 2000 then you will land on 34000 spell resist for fire, but hard cap is 33100 so those 900 extra does nothing. But you will only have that extra spell resist against fire and will be below hard cap for all other types.

Thank you for the in depth explanation.

I was just double checking to make sure the resistance values of these glyphs were not something weird like critical or impenetrable resistance values.

TankHealz2015

Question:

Penetration? It is only for PvP ?

Asmael

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Question:

Penetration? It is only for PvP ?

Nope, NPCs also have armor, and Sharpened is currently the strongest trait in PvE, supposing you get the full effect (armor cannot be reduced below 0).

For NPCs, 500 armor equals 1% mitigation.
For players, 662 armor equals 1% mitigation.

paulsimonps

Asmael wrote: »

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Question:

Penetration? It is only for PvP ?

Nope, NPCs also have armor, and Sharpened is currently the strongest trait in PvE, supposing you get the full effect (armor cannot be reduced below 0).

For NPCs, 500 armor equals 1% mitigation.
For players, 662 armor equals 1% mitigation.

That is partly true.

At cp160 662 is 1% mitigation for players and at lvl 50+ its 500 for SOME MOBS. Something I noticed while testing and why I have not made a piece on penetration yet is that the Resistance per % mitigated is not consistent throughout the game when it comes to mobs. I would still say that most mobs are 500 per 1% but not ALL of them. And I am talking of the lvl 50+ mobs here. Cause from previous knowledge gained on these forums mobs still count as lvl 50 even once they pass into veteran ranks or what is now Champion ranks? At any rate. Just know that its not 100% consistent.

Lokryn

How much fire damage is resisted for Vampire Dunmers? It doesn't sound like much.

paulsimonps

At Cp 160 the passive gives 2079 flame resistance which equals 3.14% mitigation. But do remember that if your spell resistance is hard capped then the Flame resistance does nothing.

Lokryn

paulsimonps wrote: »

At Cp 160 the passive gives 2079 flame resistance which equals 3.14% mitigation. But do remember that if your spell resistance is hard capped then the Flame resistance does nothing.

So at stage 4, does that basically mean my weakness to fire is reduced to 21.86?

paulsimonps

Lokryn wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

At Cp 160 the passive gives 2079 flame resistance which equals 3.14% mitigation. But do remember that if your spell resistance is hard capped then the Flame resistance does nothing.

So at stage 4, does that basically mean my weakness to fire is reduced to 21.86?

No. I would suggest you reread the section about vampire fire weakness. To try and put it simply, the damage multiplier gets added first and doesn't chance and your mitigation comes after. So you will still take 25% more damage. Cause that fire resistance from Dunmer would have still been there even if you were not a vampire. So sure the damage is diminished like normally by all your possible mitigation but you will still take 25% more damage after your mitigation if you are a vampire.

Berenhir

@paulsimonps

The vampire passive undeath is listed as applying a percental damage reduction before shield. This is wrong as far as I can tell. As the misleading tooltip tries to imply, the passive improves your resistance by 33%. It does not directly reduce your damage taken like hardy or elemental defender. So it is a multiplier of your physical or spell resistance value.

PS: The additional 30% protection from bolstering darkness needs to be added to your awesome list too!

paulsimonps

Berenhir wrote: »

@paulsimonps

The vampire passive undeath is listed as applying a percental damage reduction before shield. This is wrong as far as I can tell. As the misleading tooltip tries to imply, the passive improves your resistance by 33%. It does not directly reduce your damage taken like hardy or elemental defender. So it is a multiplier of your physical or spell resistance value.

PS: The additional 30% protection from bolstering darkness needs to be added to your awesome list too!

Actually the vampire undeath passive works exactly like stated in my post and the tooltip is not in the least miss leading.

"Reduces damage dealt to you when you fall below 50% Health. Lower health increases the effect, reducing damage by up to 33%"

No where in that does it talk about resistance. I have also checked it out multiple times.

Oh and last note, Bolstering darkness is in the list. Its by Consuming darkness in a parenthesis. Its a special case.

altemriel

paulsimonps wrote: »

Posted this in another thread but wanted to highlight this for everyone interested in mitigation for tanking and other so here you guys go:

OK. So I have been asked to do a post about mitigation in the game. And so this is me explaining it as I have come to understand it through my testing on both Live and the PTS. Note that this is only taking PvE into account, not looking at penetration here. Now first of something I want to bring up before I start is that there has been a rumor that's been spreading that the Nord Passive Mitigates twice if a damage shield is present on the user. This is not the case. What I found however is that some forms of mitigation was applied before the damage shields were taking damage and some after it had taken damage. Now let me give you an example of the two to show you why that matters:

Say you are gonna be hit by an attack that does 10,000 damage, and you have a damage shield that can absorb 5,000 damage. If the mitigation of a block for example is applied before the damage shield is damaged then this is how it would look. 10,000*0.5-5,000=5,000-5,000=0 And so to explain, we first reduce the damage that the enemy can do by half from the default 50% mitigation from blocking leaving only 5,000 damage left and since that is equal to the damage shield the shield absorbs it all. However that is not the case for blocking, when you block the mitigation is applied after the damage shield has been damage which would make it look like this: (10,000-5,000)*0.5=5,000*0.5=2,500 And so we end up using up the damage shield and then reducing what is left of that damage by half and we get hit for 2,500 damage.

Now the way that you properly calculate how much damage you will mitigate is this. You take the decimal form of the percentage that would be left after you mitigate the damage with the passive/ability/armor/other. So 15% from a minor maim would be 0.85% since its the decimal form of what is left after you remove 15% aka 85% now simply multiply the decimals together and you will get the percentage that would be left after you mitigate it all.

So as an example blocking with full physical resist and the sword and board passive and Minor Maim would look like this: 0.5x0.5x.08x0.85=0.17 which would mean we mitigated 83% of the total damage applied to us. Simply multiply the 0.17 with the base damage of an attack to see how much damage it would actually do. Now if you want to add a damage shield into the calculation there is something extra you need to do. You need to multiply the mitigation that applies before the shield first and then subtract the damage absorbed by the shield before you can multiply in the mitigation that occur after the shield has been damaged. If we add 100points into hardy into our last mitigation example set up and go by that the base damage of the hit is 20,000 and you have a 2,000 damage shield it would look like this:

(20,000x0.75x0.85-2,000)x0.5x0.5x0.8=(20,000x0.6375-2,000)x0.2=(12,750-2,000)x0.2=10,750x0.2=2150

So that is how you would calculate all of that. :P Simply put the damage that needs to be calculated before the shield into a parenthesis and then multiply it with the rest. And so if a damage shield is involved it matters which type of mitigation it is if its a Before or After shield mitigation but if no damage shield is involved then it doesn't matter.

Now below is a full list of all the different possible ways of mitigating damage, I really hope I haven't missed any. I also put the 30% that it would mitigate at the start of each row and at the end in the parenthesis is the type of damage that it would mitigate since that is very important. Basically anything that says that it increases the amount of damage you can block is done after and the rest is before, except the resistance. And on the note of resistance. Elemental or Poison/Disease resistance is calculated as part of the Spell or Physical resistance each time it is used it simply adds to the base resistance anytime that element is used against you. However if you hit the Resistance cap then the elemental resists doesn't add anything more. At max level the resist cap is 33,100 aka 1% per 662 resist. ish. Oh and last side note before the list, you can also technically mitigate damage by lowering your opponents weapon or spell power with debuffs but its impossible to calculate how much extra that mitigates without knowing the enemies stats and it would be a case by case thing so not gonna be apart of the list. Enjoy

BEFORE SHIELD:

• 30% Major Maim (All)
  • Dawns Wrath Ultimate: Nova
• 15% Minor Maim (All)
  • One Hand and Shield Ability: Low Slash
  • Draconic Power Ability: Choking Talons
  • Shadow Ability: Summon Shade
  • Shadow Ability: Mass Hysteria
  • Alchemy Poison Effect: Maiming
  • Alchemy Poison Effect: Brutality-Draining
  • Armor Set: Knightmare
  • Secondary Elemental Effect: Concussion
• 30% Major Protection (All)
  • Shadow Ultimate: Consuming Darkness (Bolstering Darkness Morph makes it 60% for Caster)
• 8% Minor Protection (All)
  • Restoring Light Ability: Restoring Focus
  • Fighters Guild Ability: Circle of Protection
  • Shadow Ability: Dark Cloak
  • Alchemy Potion Effect: Protection
• 5% Minor Aegis (Boss Dmg)
  • Armor Set: Lunar Bastion
  • Armor Set: Eternal Yokeda
  • Armor Set: Twilight Remedy
• 6% Nord Passive: Rugged (All)
• 0-33% Vampire Passive: Undeath (All)
• 75% Vampire Ability: Mist Form (All)
• 0-25% CP Passive: Hardy (Physical, Poison, Disease)
• 0-24% CP Passive: Thick Skin (DoT's)
• 0-25% CP Passive: Elemental Defender (Magicka, Shock, Fire, Ice)
• 0-25% CP Passive: Expert Defender (Light, Heavy attacks)
• 20% Dual Wield Ability: Blade Cloak (AoE)
• 20% Ardent Flame Ultimate: Standard of Might (All)
• 15% (+4% per target) Aedric Spear Ultimate: Empowering Sweep (All)
• 5%/20% Armor Set: Bastion of the Heartland (Player Dmg/Siege Dmg & Player AoE Spells)
• 5% Armor Set: Shield of the Valiant (Player Dmg)
• 5% Armor Set: Buffer of the Swift (Player Dmg)
• 25% Armor Set: Leki's Focus (Player AoE)
• 15% Armor Set: Light of Cyrodiil (All while Casting or Channeling Spell)
• 35% Armor Set: Reactive Armor (All while CC'ed)
• 50% PvP Effects: Battle Spirit (All)
• 30% Support Ability: Guard (All)

AFTER SHIELD:

• 50% Blocking (All)
• 0-50% Physical Resistance (Physical, Poison, Disease)
• 0-50% Spell Resistance (Magicka, Shock, Fire, Ice)
• 20% One Hand and Shield Passive: Sword and Board (All)
• 15% One Hand and Shield Passive: Deflect Bolt (Projectile and Ranged Dmg)
• 8% One Hand and Shield Ability: Defensive Posture (All)
• 10% Draconic Power Passive: Iron Skin (All)
• 15% Aedric Spear Passive: Spear Wall (Melee Dmg)
• 8% Armor Set: Footman's Fortune (All)
• 12% Armor Set: Ward of Cyrodiil (All)

UPDATE: CRITICAL HITS

Now critical hit resistance did not work as I first thought. So I'm adding this special part specifically to explain how it works. Now first thing to note is that you cannot critically hit a damage shield, however the damage overflow from a depleted shield can critically hit. So if you do 10000 damage and you hit a 5000 damage shield the 5000 that are left over can critically hit and the base multiplier for that is 1.5 aka 50% so that would mean you would hit for 7500 after you deplete the targets shield. Now the resistance for this works like this. Stacking Critical hit damage increase is actually additive and not multiplicative and so for the reduction for it we are gonna subtract. So say you have 100p into Resistant and the enemy has only the base critical hit then it would function like this. you take the 1.5 and subtract 0.25 for the 25% resistance and you are then left with 1.25 and so their critical hit would only hit for 25% more than its base. Say that you have all types of critical hit resistance and the enemy has all types of increase in critical damage then it would look like this. 2.45-0.72=1.75 Which means that their multiplier for critical hits would be 75% more instead of 145%. Note that all of this is done before any of the above mentioned mitigation, in PvP if a player critically hits you this is the first part of the calculation for how much damage you will receive. Below is a list of all the possible ways of resisting critical hits. I moved the first 2 there from their previous spots above and added Impen.

• 20% Armor Set: Armor of the Construct (Critical Hits)
• 0-25% CP Passive: Resistant (Critical Hits)
• 0-27% Armor Trait: Impenetrable (Critical Hits)
• ~19% Armor Set: Transmutation (Critical Hits)* Resist depends on quality of set

UPDATE: VAMPIRE FIRE VULNERABILITY

So just wanted to add this short section explaining how the Vampires vulnerability to fire works in connection to damage mitigation. The basics of it is that the multiplier for increased fire damage is applied before anything else. The multiplier is either 1.15, 1.20 or 1.25 depending on your Vampire stage. So lets take our example from earlier, where we took 20,000 damage and had a 2,000 damage shield and a few types of mitigations. It looked like this:

(20,000x0.75x0.85-2,000)x0.5x0.5x0.8=(20,000x0.6375-2,000)x0.2=(12,750-2,000)x0.2=10,750x0.2=2150

Now all we would have to do is to add the increased damage multiplier into it and it would look like this:

(20,000x1.25x0.75x0.85-2,000)x0.5x0.5x0.8=(20,000x0.796875-2,000)x0.2=(15,938-2,000)x0.2=13,938x0.2=2788

And as you can see there is still a significant increase from what we took in damage before to what it was after we added the vulnerability multiplier, but damage was still mitigated like normally.

UPDATE: GUARD

So did some extra testing on the Alliance War Support Ability Guard. Now guard works like this: You apply a beam on a friendly target and as long as the beam is connected they take 30% less damage and you take that damage instead of them. But there is more to it than that. When applied in combination with other forms of mitigation Guard does apply before any damage shield is damaged on the protected target, but any other form of mitigation done on the protected target that is applied on them is also applied on the damage that is transferred to the caster. So say I guard my friend who is also blocking and he takes a hit that should have done 10,000 then he takes 3,500 (=10,000x0.7x0.5) I would take 1,500 (=10,000x0.3x0.5) One thing to note however is that Minor and Major Maim is technically applied before anything else because how it works is it limits the amount of damage the enemy can deal, as apposed to increasing the amount of damage we can block/take.

There was this one thing we found out about Guard that was very weird thou and made no sense what so ever. If you Guard someone and then have a Damage shield on then the damage you take is reduced by 42.9% of the damage shields strength. So say they would take 10,000 damage but you guard them and they have a 5,000 damage shield. They would take 2,000 (=10,000x0.7-5,000) and you would take 855 (=10,000*0.3-(5,000x0.429)). I have no idea why that is but we tested it with multiple damage shield and it always worked like that. We made sure that the caster had no other mitigation on them what so ever and it still worked like that. Makes no sense to me but that's how it works.

awesome! thank you!!

ARIES SERPICO

Any update or changes with update?

altemriel

oh yeah!!

paulsimonps

Will be working on updating this during the next upcoming week. Now that I am back from Zenimax I finally have time for it.

paulsimonps

OK!!!! After many hours of testing and writing the update to this thread is now complete!!!!! Though if you find any place where your testing has found something else I would love to know, also if you find that I missed something in the mitigation and vulnerability lists then please let me know in the comments. ENJOY!

ARIES SERPICO

Thanks, great stuff

nihonseanb14_ESO

Is there a cap on damage reduction? Or diminishing returns?

If Vampire Mist = 75% reduction, would a Nord Vampire have 81%?

Just curious so I know how crazy to go on stacking :O

PS4_ZeColmeia

I believe different sources have a multiplicative effect. I believe it would be mistform, then nord, then armor reductions before damage is applied.

paulsimonps

nihonseanb14_ESO wrote: »

Is there a cap on damage reduction? Or diminishing returns?

If Vampire Mist = 75% reduction, would a Nord Vampire have 81%?

Just curious so I know how crazy to go on stacking :O

MITIGATION=100-(100*(1-(75(Vampire mist))/100)*(1-(6(Nord))/100)=76.5%

Its all diminishing returns. There is no cap, but when you get to high 90 then its gonna be almost nothing added at all. But staying in high 90 is not possible for long term, its only gonna be for a few seconds.

paulsimonps

Added Way or Martial Knowledge to Vulnerabilities, thou need to double check, but the wording of it would suggest that its a vulnerability and not a buff on the attacker. If anyone knows for certain already about the effects of it please let me know.

Berenhir

Hi @paulsimonps ,

why do you use 662 as 1% resistance and 68 as 1% crit resistance values for CP160?

Isn't it always PlayerLevel*10 = 1% resistance, PlayerLevel = 1% crit resistance?

With CP 10 - 160 being lvl 51 to 66?

paulsimonps

@Berenhir

I've done all of my testing from the ground up. Meaning I reversed engineered everything I know from the game itself. For the regular resistance its pretty easy to double check it. Take of all forms of mitigation, then go and get hit by a mob, the higher the damage the better. The damage you take is gonna be their base damage, then put on armor to get some physical resistance. Then go and get hit by the same mob and the same attack again, the difference will tell you how much you mitigated, then divide the amount you mitigated by the amount of resistance you have, and boom there you go. And that is how I got 662 per % mitigated.

For crit resistance it was a bit harder. Cause I always had to take the Battle Spirit into account. But lets look at base crit damage. Its modifier is 1.5 aka 50% more. 100p into resistant gives you 1699 crit resistance, and when someone crit hits you with base crit modifier it takes off 25% of the crit damage. Which means 1699 is 25% so if we take 1699/25 we get 67.96 which I would average out to 68.

Now again. Crit resistance I am a bit iffy on and if someone finds out another number and can show me how they came up with that I would like to test that too and have a look at it. But for now I say its 68 per % mitigated.

Creezy

@paulsimonps
Fantastic thread - really!
Very interesting to see that physical / spell resistance is applied after damage shield. So as long as your shields are sufficiently up, carrying a defending staff (or swrod, etc) doesn't make any difference to the damage applied to your shields.
Great work, many thanks!