NA PC BWB: Third Times A Charm

Reverb

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

I've been playing EP in bwb a bit lately. It's painful.

I've heard many horror stories about the lack of groups, coordination, and cohesion within the faction. That coupled with the fact that EP is the least populated has got to hurt lol.

It's utter chaos. I can't for the life of me figure out what people are doing, or how I can contribute to improvement. After like an hour it just hurts my head and I log back to DC on Had.

ŞσƦѦ

Setana_Shial wrote: »

Oh and Have you taken a defended keep solo Sora, if so please post it as proof that this pvp was meant for solo play.

Actually I have. Many times, most recently the assault on Rayles 2 days ago. I will try to include some clips solo defending keeps in my next pvp video just for you.

Also have taken a keep solo once. It's hard to do if pvp is there with all of the mobs but it is possible.

I realize you are trying to take it to extremes with your comment because I never said the game was designed for solo pvp but since I have actually done what you said, I responded.

To be clear, I believe this game is designed for many different playstyles. I believe the most fun, challenging, and rewarding battles won are ones done solo, duo, or in small groups. Battles where individual contribution makes or breaks the fight. Battles where how well you play your class and coordinate with your team determine the outcome of the fight. Sweeping through pvp with a zerg of players all trying to get a hit on someone before they die to the swarm isn't fun to me. I'm not sure how it's fun to you.

vamp_emily

I guess I can say I like Iceball Trebuckets, i bought 15 on accident.... grrrr.

ŞσƦѦ

Reverb wrote: »

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

I've been playing EP in bwb a bit lately. It's painful.

I've heard many horror stories about the lack of groups, coordination, and cohesion within the faction. That coupled with the fact that EP is the least populated has got to hurt lol.

It's utter chaos. I can't for the life of me figure out what people are doing, or how I can contribute to improvement. After like an hour it just hurts my head and I log back to DC on Had.

When my friend and I decided to play he really wanted to be EP, but EP seemed like the "evil" side and I'm usually a goodie goodie so I started on AD then moved to DC. So glad I didn't do EP like my friend wanted lol.

Valen_Byte

vamp_emily wrote: »

I guess I can say I like Iceball Trebuckets, i bought 15 on accident.... grrrr.

15!!??? you are OP now.

Sreja_Bone

Woke up and checked here this morning, @Setana_Shial, Sora and Emily have been really good on here lately, (Valen too, mustn't leave you out ) so chrissakes stop trying to pick a fight. Keep that stuff in game if you really feel you just have to go there.

Please, pretty please. Go buy some ice trebs or something for subject matter.

Edited to say I posted this out of a sense of fairness, since I commented on Sora's way with words last time around. Would feel remiss if I let an AD go for the same.

Lumsdenml

Sreja_Bone wrote: »

Woke up and checked here this morning, @Setana_Shial, Sora and Emily have been really good on here lately, (Valen too, mustn't leave you out ) so chrissakes stop trying to pick a fight. Keep that stuff in game if you really feel you just have to go there.

Please, pretty please. Go buy some ice trebs or something for subject matter.

Edited to say I posted this out of a sense of fairness, since I commented on Sora's way with words last time around. Would feel remiss if I let an AD go for the same.

How about me? Have I been good, too?

Sreja_Bone

@Lumsdenml *pats on head* "Who's a good boy...yes you are....yes you are"

Adenoma

Am I the only one who really likes it when DC and EP get zergy so that it's easier to find a fight? I have really slow horses...

Valen_Byte

Adenoma wrote: »

Am I the only one who really likes it when DC and EP get zergy so that it's easier to find a fight? I have really slow horses...

Love it : ))

Map is the best when its full of big chaotic battles.

TipsyDrow

Setana_Shial wrote: »

So why did I just kill Emily in Azura's?
Is that why BwB is dead right now, everyone ran there?

Surely what you meant was when you AND your group of 23 OTHER people killed Emily. Because solo, you're not killing anyone, ever. Oh and just in case you need reminding of what happens when you try and do anything alone.....

Setana sets up three trebs to flag nikel.
Liellanna watches a moment.
Setana looks around nervously, twitching, visibly frightened all alone.
Liellanna pounces.
Setana screams over teamspeak OH MY GOD SHE'S HERE!!! HAAAAALP MEEEE!!!!
Setana spams BOL for all he's worth spamspamspamspam...oh god more heals!!
Liellanna polishes her nails and looks up....Oh, you're done now?
Liellanna then proceeds to beat Setana so bad she was at full health when he died.

Now I don't mean to add insult to injury, well no, that's not true. I actually do mean to.
You, Mr Setana were beaten by a lower lvl character in green gear with training glyphs.

But hey....you keep on zergin and thinkin you're not bad.

ŞσƦѦ

Lol.

Lumsdenml

Anyone else watching the Olympics, see the javelin and think... Stamplar.

Adenoma

And I'm always impressed with them - I can't stamplar like they can.

EdmundTowers

[/quote]
I do the same thing sometimes when I'm trying to have fun as a solo/duo/small group player and the other faction won't budge without a 50-100+ man zerg to back them up. Nothing at all wrong with it.... Especially when the other faction keeps flipping the whole map while everyone is asleep then we gotta spend all day fighting an uphill battle against both factions since one of them never do anything useful or logical.[/quote]

That's funny, just the week before another faction was flipping the map while everyone else was at work.

ŞσƦѦ

EdmundTowers wrote: »

That's funny, just the week before another faction was flipping the map while everyone else was at work.

As many AD players have said (ones who frequently post on this thread), AD has a lot of Aussie players and if you're up during off hours you will see AD still maintains 2-3 bars during them times so I don't really think AD faces that issue; they're the most highly populated BWB faction and have been for a long time now.

That said, I also wouldn't blame AD players for taking a break from the campaign if they were tired of another faction zerging the map to death so I'm not sure where you were going with that statement. If it was just you pointing out that other factions night cap, I never claimed night capping was exclusive to AD.

Adenoma

So I know lightning ballistas drain magicka and cause a bleed - do they affect your recovery as well?

Sreja_Bone

Dunno, try to keep it simple myself, fire and meatbags.

Sreja_Bone

Hey Wolfie :

MopeyHat

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

Setana_Shial wrote: »

Oh and Have you taken a defended keep solo Sora, if so please post it as proof that this pvp was meant for solo play.

Actually I have. Many times, most recently the assault on Rayles 2 days ago. I will try to include some clips solo defending keeps in my next pvp video just for you.

Also have taken a keep solo once. It's hard to do if pvp is there with all of the mobs but it is possible.

I realize you are trying to take it to extremes with your comment because I never said the game was designed for solo pvp but since I have actually done what you said, I responded.

To be clear, I believe this game is designed for many different playstyles. I believe the most fun, challenging, and rewarding battles won are ones done solo, duo, or in small groups. Battles where individual contribution makes or breaks the fight. Battles where how well you play your class and coordinate with your team determine the outcome of the fight. Sweeping through pvp with a zerg of players all trying to get a hit on someone before they die to the swarm isn't fun to me. I'm not sure how it's fun to you.

Perhaps because this game's pvp was designed for mass battles. The entire point is to strategically organize and coordinate players to be in the right place at the right time. The "unfairness" of most so-called zerging is just misguided perspective. Unless the group is specifically using ball tactics, which I've never really seen in Blackwater, having a large group of players is just one tool among many for strategic play. The real unfairness is when there are no good leaders around to help direct players who are not as interested in the AvA aspect, or solid guilds to bring in players when pop is low. If you're AD, you can often see this if you jump between Azura and Blackwater - one has only maybe one or two regular guilds, the other has several.

I personally find it fun to recruit players, coordinate multiple groups and engage in large-scale battle. It's a much more rewarding playstyle than playing solo. Adenoma, the Bytes, Brendan, Burnin, et al I think understand - it's really, really fun directing the battle and outmaneuvering your opponent

Valen_Byte

@MopeyHat Bravo!

Also, I want to congratulate my son on his first EMP! Thank you to all who helped make this week awesome. For those that care. I took the week off work. I went for emp and got it. Then we pushed my wife (Vyle) to emp, and then topped off the week with my son getting emp! Woot! Might seem strange, but its the best vacation I've ever had lol.

ŞσƦѦ

MopeyHat wrote: »

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

Setana_Shial wrote: »

Oh and Have you taken a defended keep solo Sora, if so please post it as proof that this pvp was meant for solo play.

Actually I have. Many times, most recently the assault on Rayles 2 days ago. I will try to include some clips solo defending keeps in my next pvp video just for you.

Also have taken a keep solo once. It's hard to do if pvp is there with all of the mobs but it is possible.

I realize you are trying to take it to extremes with your comment because I never said the game was designed for solo pvp but since I have actually done what you said, I responded.

To be clear, I believe this game is designed for many different playstyles. I believe the most fun, challenging, and rewarding battles won are ones done solo, duo, or in small groups. Battles where individual contribution makes or breaks the fight. Battles where how well you play your class and coordinate with your team determine the outcome of the fight. Sweeping through pvp with a zerg of players all trying to get a hit on someone before they die to the swarm isn't fun to me. I'm not sure how it's fun to you.

Perhaps because this game's pvp was designed for mass battles. The entire point is to strategically organize and coordinate players to be in the right place at the right time. The "unfairness" of most so-called zerging is just misguided perspective. Unless the group is specifically using ball tactics, which I've never really seen in Blackwater, having a large group of players is just one tool among many for strategic play. The real unfairness is when there are no good leaders around to help direct players who are not as interested in the AvA aspect, or solid guilds to bring in players when pop is low. If you're AD, you can often see this if you jump between Azura and Blackwater - one has only maybe one or two regular guilds, the other has several.

I personally find it fun to recruit players, coordinate multiple groups and engage in large-scale battle. It's a much more rewarding playstyle than playing solo. Adenoma, the Bytes, Brendan, Burnin, et al I think understand - it's really, really fun directing the battle and outmaneuvering your opponent

Contrary to what you believe, none of those you mention "outmaneuver" opponents, they simply out-number them. If the pvp you are fantasizing about in your post actually happened, Cyrodiil would be much more enjoyable and there would be far less posts about zerging. Aldmeri Dominion does not split up their forces and attack multiple locations allowing for a non-zergling to find small scale pvp here and there at different keeps (as I believe was intended hence why there are so many resources, outposts, and keeps). Aldmeri Dominion simply masses multiple 24man zergs and attacks all together (usually with the aid of EP as well). This forces DC to try to defend that location because there simply is nothing else to do.

This is also why EP always winds up interfering. From what I've been told from so many EP when questioning why they always jump in on us while we try to dethrone AD, prevent AD from emping, etc, EP just wants to PvP and when they see PvP happening they show up. Aldmeri Dominion has the highest population and the least actual PvPers. Throwing everything you have at lesser numbers most of the time will cause a win with no strategy or even common sense involved. It's a numbers game. EP is the least populated so they attack DC where they can have some chance of success. AD zergs everything to death then hides behind some false sense of how Cyrodiil was intended to be.

If the majority of players enjoyed zerging as most of AD does then there wouldn't be 124 thousand hits on google simply from typing "eso zerg issue". Stop hiding behind your "this is how ESO was intended to be" excuse and try pvping without the aid of a zerg to guarantee success. You can coordinate large scale pvp through groups at different locations if that is your thing. Throwing your whole faction at 1 keep is a crutch that you use as the highest populated faction and more and more of the lower class players flock to the easy side daily. You're only making the problem worse.

Valen_Byte

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

MopeyHat wrote: »

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

Setana_Shial wrote: »

Oh and Have you taken a defended keep solo Sora, if so please post it as proof that this pvp was meant for solo play.

Actually I have. Many times, most recently the assault on Rayles 2 days ago. I will try to include some clips solo defending keeps in my next pvp video just for you.

Also have taken a keep solo once. It's hard to do if pvp is there with all of the mobs but it is possible.

I realize you are trying to take it to extremes with your comment because I never said the game was designed for solo pvp but since I have actually done what you said, I responded.

To be clear, I believe this game is designed for many different playstyles. I believe the most fun, challenging, and rewarding battles won are ones done solo, duo, or in small groups. Battles where individual contribution makes or breaks the fight. Battles where how well you play your class and coordinate with your team determine the outcome of the fight. Sweeping through pvp with a zerg of players all trying to get a hit on someone before they die to the swarm isn't fun to me. I'm not sure how it's fun to you.

Perhaps because this game's pvp was designed for mass battles. The entire point is to strategically organize and coordinate players to be in the right place at the right time. The "unfairness" of most so-called zerging is just misguided perspective. Unless the group is specifically using ball tactics, which I've never really seen in Blackwater, having a large group of players is just one tool among many for strategic play. The real unfairness is when there are no good leaders around to help direct players who are not as interested in the AvA aspect, or solid guilds to bring in players when pop is low. If you're AD, you can often see this if you jump between Azura and Blackwater - one has only maybe one or two regular guilds, the other has several.

I personally find it fun to recruit players, coordinate multiple groups and engage in large-scale battle. It's a much more rewarding playstyle than playing solo. Adenoma, the Bytes, Brendan, Burnin, et al I think understand - it's really, really fun directing the battle and outmaneuvering your opponent

Contrary to what you believe, none of those you mention "outmaneuver" opponents, they simply out-number them. If the pvp you are fantasizing about in your post actually happened, Cyrodiil would be much more enjoyable and there would be far less posts about zerging. Aldmeri Dominion does not split up their forces and attack multiple locations allowing for a non-zergling to find small scale pvp here and there at different keeps (as I believe was intended hence why there are so many resources, outposts, and keeps). Aldmeri Dominion simply masses multiple 24man zergs and attacks all together (usually with the aid of EP as well). This forces DC to try to defend that location because there simply is nothing else to do.

This is also why EP always winds up interfering. From what I've been told from so many EP when questioning why they always jump in on us while we try to dethrone AD, prevent AD from emping, etc, EP just wants to PvP and when they see PvP happening they show up. Aldmeri Dominion has the highest population and the least actual PvPers. Throwing everything you have at lesser numbers most of the time will cause a win with no strategy or even common sense involved. It's a numbers game. EP is the least populated so they attack DC where they can have some chance of success. AD zergs everything to death then hides behind some false sense of how Cyrodiil was intended to be.

If the majority of players enjoyed zerging as most of AD does then there wouldn't be 124 thousand hits on google simply from typing "eso zerg issue". Stop hiding behind your "this is how ESO was intended to be" excuse and try pvping without the aid of a zerg to guarantee success. You can coordinate large scale pvp through groups at different locations if that is your thing. Throwing your whole faction at 1 keep is a crutch that you use as the highest populated faction and more and more of the lower class players flock to the easy side daily. You're only making the problem worse.

You are never going to convince anyone to play the way you want them too. Why dont you stop bringing the thread down by trying?? There is no point in your points. If you dont like large scale, leave. Because thats how it is, and thats how its going to stay. If you are simply trying to get your opinion out there, we got it. Dont care.

ColoursYouHave

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

If the majority of players enjoyed zerging as most of AD does then there wouldn't be 124 thousand hits on google simply from typing "eso zerg issue".

Hits on Google is an absolutely terrible way to analyze how popular/unpopular something is. For instance, if you google "eso zergs are awesome" it comes up with 361 thousand hits. Hell, searching "bananas are better than smurfs" comes up with over 43 million hits.

Also, to those who seem to think that both alliances are always against them no matter what, last night when trying to dethrone DC, who was down to one emp keep, EP repeatedly attacked AD keeps while AD was trying to dethrone at Aleswell. Likewise, AD repeatedly attacked EP keeps while EP was trying to dethrone at Aleswell. At one point EP was even sieging the AD who were sieging Aleswell. Point being, all alliances do this, and anybody can select several singular moments in a server that is ongoing 24/7 to fit their narrative, but that doesn't mean it reflects any sort of trend outside of that moment they selected.

Adenoma

Glasses won't fix this kind of myopia.

MopeyHat

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

MopeyHat wrote: »

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

Setana_Shial wrote: »

Oh and Have you taken a defended keep solo Sora, if so please post it as proof that this pvp was meant for solo play.

Actually I have. Many times, most recently the assault on Rayles 2 days ago. I will try to include some clips solo defending keeps in my next pvp video just for you.

Also have taken a keep solo once. It's hard to do if pvp is there with all of the mobs but it is possible.

I realize you are trying to take it to extremes with your comment because I never said the game was designed for solo pvp but since I have actually done what you said, I responded.

To be clear, I believe this game is designed for many different playstyles. I believe the most fun, challenging, and rewarding battles won are ones done solo, duo, or in small groups. Battles where individual contribution makes or breaks the fight. Battles where how well you play your class and coordinate with your team determine the outcome of the fight. Sweeping through pvp with a zerg of players all trying to get a hit on someone before they die to the swarm isn't fun to me. I'm not sure how it's fun to you.

Perhaps because this game's pvp was designed for mass battles. The entire point is to strategically organize and coordinate players to be in the right place at the right time. The "unfairness" of most so-called zerging is just misguided perspective. Unless the group is specifically using ball tactics, which I've never really seen in Blackwater, having a large group of players is just one tool among many for strategic play. The real unfairness is when there are no good leaders around to help direct players who are not as interested in the AvA aspect, or solid guilds to bring in players when pop is low. If you're AD, you can often see this if you jump between Azura and Blackwater - one has only maybe one or two regular guilds, the other has several.

I personally find it fun to recruit players, coordinate multiple groups and engage in large-scale battle. It's a much more rewarding playstyle than playing solo. Adenoma, the Bytes, Brendan, Burnin, et al I think understand - it's really, really fun directing the battle and outmaneuvering your opponent

Contrary to what you believe, none of those you mention "outmaneuver" opponents, they simply out-number them. If the pvp you are fantasizing about in your post actually happened, Cyrodiil would be much more enjoyable and there would be far less posts about zerging. Aldmeri Dominion does not split up their forces and attack multiple locations allowing for a non-zergling to find small scale pvp here and there at different keeps (as I believe was intended hence why there are so many resources, outposts, and keeps). Aldmeri Dominion simply masses multiple 24man zergs and attacks all together (usually with the aid of EP as well). This forces DC to try to defend that location because there simply is nothing else to do.

This is also why EP always winds up interfering. From what I've been told from so many EP when questioning why they always jump in on us while we try to dethrone AD, prevent AD from emping, etc, EP just wants to PvP and when they see PvP happening they show up. Aldmeri Dominion has the highest population and the least actual PvPers. Throwing everything you have at lesser numbers most of the time will cause a win with no strategy or even common sense involved. It's a numbers game. EP is the least populated so they attack DC where they can have some chance of success. AD zergs everything to death then hides behind some false sense of how Cyrodiil was intended to be.

If the majority of players enjoyed zerging as most of AD does then there wouldn't be 124 thousand hits on google simply from typing "eso zerg issue". Stop hiding behind your "this is how ESO was intended to be" excuse and try pvping without the aid of a zerg to guarantee success. You can coordinate large scale pvp through groups at different locations if that is your thing. Throwing your whole faction at 1 keep is a crutch that you use as the highest populated faction and more and more of the lower class players flock to the easy side daily. You're only making the problem worse.

Maybe I'll make this a little bit clearer: having numbers is the point. "Guaranteeing success" is the point. Our "zergs" are just the result of a couple leaders pushing at the right place, the right time, and giving the faction some momentum. Just having the numbers isn't everything, most of the time. There has to be a core group of players among them that knows what they're doing. See: every time there's an hour-long tug-of-war over outposts. Some pugs only play factions that are winning, and that inflates the numbers - but in the end, it only begins because someone made the right move at the right time.

If you're getting tired of us all being at the same place at the same time, even though your faction does precisely the same when they have the organization, there are ways to spread players out. Flagging keeps. Cutting off reinforcements. Not pushing the other faction at the wrong time. (Even colluding with them.)

I understand maybe it appears your faction doesn't have pop advantage all the time. Pop comes and goes. But it's not right to blame the other faction for using the numbers they have. I think, if we have more numbers these past weeks, it's because AD has consistent people that stand up and lead groups, and help support them. DC has had plenty of dominant weeks and even months in the past, and even EP can take a campaign when a guild steps in. It can be depressing when your faction doesn't have pop. The "counters" are to help your faction, lead a group, make a guild, take time to teach someone how to PvP. Making a friend and teaching them a little persistence, and a little loyalty. Turning it around and working our way up - those things were some of the most fun in Blackwater for me back when AD was always on the bottom. It's another layer to the game.

And if it seems like we're "ruling" the campaign right now, leads will get bored and turn to other things too. It's what several in my guild have done, including myself.

Out of curiosity, I did google "eso zerg issue". I see a few complaint threads, but most of it is just anything that mentions the words "eso", "zerg", and "issue," including builds, 1vX videos, not real complaints. (What a surprise there.)

I'm not "hiding" behind the zerg. I am using it, not as a crutch, but as a tool. I'm not playing AvA to win duels. I'm here to take keeps, move the map, and win campaigns. I'm not sorry we're not here to make PvP fun for you.

I am sorry ESO does not provide PvP that fits the dueling and small group playstyles as well, and agree that AvA is sometimes lacking in small group play. I am one of many waiting for them to release some sort of arena. It's something that's sorely missed.

ŞσƦѦ

Valen_Byte wrote: »

You are never going to convince anyone to play the way you want them too. Why dont you stop bringing the thread down by trying?? There is no point in your points. If you dont like large scale, leave. Because thats how it is, and thats how its going to stay. If you are simply trying to get your opinion out there, we got it. Dont care.

You believe there are no points to my points because you only care about your point. You enjoy zerging, having your hand held by others, only accomplishing anything when sheer numbers force an outcome. I get it. I don't care. My posts are RESPONSES to other posts. If you don't like these topics being debated then I suggest you either leave the thread, contact the people initiating these topics and ask them to stop (lol), or learn how to operate in the real world where you must be able to conduct yourself around people who don't share your opinion.

In regards to your misunderstanding regarding large scale pvp: Large scale doesn't = zerging. Cyrodiil is a vast instance with many objectives to be focused on. Though I don't expect you to play the game any way aside from how you personally want to, here is a suggestion you might find useful since you have such an issue with people commenting on the issue of zerging:

Learn how to play the game without needing to focus your entire faction on one keep, resource, city, outpost, etc or learn how to deal with people discussing the player-made issue of zerging. Be a stronger player and you won't need a zerg to play the game for you.

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

If the majority of players enjoyed zerging as most of AD does then there wouldn't be 124 thousand hits on google simply from typing "eso zerg issue".

Hits on Google is an absolutely terrible way to analyze how popular/unpopular something is. For instance, if you google "eso zergs are awesome" it comes up with 361 thousand hits. Hell, searching "bananas are better than smurfs" comes up with over 43 million hits.

Also, to those who seem to think that both alliances are always against them no matter what, last night when trying to dethrone DC, who was down to one emp keep, EP repeatedly attacked AD keeps while AD was trying to dethrone at Aleswell. Likewise, AD repeatedly attacked EP keeps while EP was trying to dethrone at Aleswell. At one point EP was even sieging the AD who were sieging Aleswell. Point being, all alliances do this, and anybody can select several singular moments in a server that is ongoing 24/7 to fit their narrative, but that doesn't mean it reflects any sort of trend outside of that moment they selected.

Last night EP was attacking their own home keeps that AD was holding (for once) after failing to dethrone DC at Aleswell many many times despite the multi-faction zerging (nothing wrong with it during dethrone just pointing it out).

I see you tried to twist my point on google, however, anyone with common sense could simply click on them hits you suggested while searching "eso zergs are awesome" and see that 99.9% of them contain complaints about zergs or suggested fixes to mitigate the negative effects zergs have in not only ESO but every other MMO that fosters a PvP environment. Common sense friend.

Adenoma

I think this is the time that the rational, nontoxic part of the thread should start a policy of salutary neglect directed towards the more myopic persons.

ŞσƦѦ

Adenoma wrote: »

I think this is the time that the rational, nontoxic part of the thread should start a policy of salutary neglect directed towards the more myopic persons.

Though some might find it cowardice how you always speak indirectly, I admire your commitment to the narrative.

Setana_Shial

oh that wonderful defense at roe. 4 outer breaches and still couldn't take the courtyard. Was fun blues come again soon