Waffennacht wrote: »Any stam build has no room to complain with the huge amount of choices in the weapon trees.
All I have ever seen is whining about how stam sorcs got nothing over the last year. Here this whole time you've had more access to viable abilities than I've ever had a chance to experience as a magicka sorc.
Waffennacht wrote: »
I have, Imo the most unique sorcerer viable end game build there is. And still it's all the same abilities as other magicka sorcs.
"With all your complaining did you ever try to be unique outside of stam sorc?" - Should be the quote.
Who cares if magicka sorcs can be good If it's pigeonholed into one exact build? I sure as hell find that to be more of a reason to complain that your min maxed build just doesn't completely decimate 3 players but only 2, or your vMA score is just not AS high.
Your build got it done, your stam sorc was unique, yes and so you could've gone a lot of other routes, though not as effective you had them. We don't even have an option to try a "crap tree line"
You're complaining your choices sucked, I'm saying at least you have them.
Implosion should work more like Burning light. It always has a chance to proc, with increasing strenght the lower the targets health is.
Implosion should work more like Burning light. It always has a chance to proc, with increasing strenght the lower the targets health is.
No man, you cannot compare burning light with implosion.
The thing here is not the bonus on damage, it's the impact on self heals.
Technically it's more like Sorcs Blood magic because it also procs on shielded targets without suffering self heals like Templar
procs do. Sweep damage didn't heal you as expected when burning light procced because self heals were calculated by n% damage made by BL and not by n% of sweep damage. Ask Templars how funny that is when you heavily rely on high crits and compare this with current crit surge changes.
Here we go again, just another class ...
Waffennacht wrote: »Any stam build has no room to complain with the huge amount of choices in the weapon trees.
All I have ever seen is whining about how stam sorcs got nothing over the last year. Here this whole time you've had more access to viable abilities than I've ever had a chance to experience as a magicka sorc.
Since when a weapon line is part of a class and why the heck should you chose a Sorc if a weapon is your only argument?Waffennacht wrote: »
I have, Imo the most unique sorcerer viable end game build there is. And still it's all the same abilities as other magicka sorcs.
"With all your complaining did you ever try to be unique outside of stam sorc?" - Should be the quote.
Who cares if magicka sorcs can be good If it's pigeonholed into one exact build? I sure as hell find that to be more of a reason to complain that your min maxed build just doesn't completely decimate 3 players but only 2, or your vMA score is just not AS high.
Your build got it done, your stam sorc was unique, yes and so you could've gone a lot of other routes, though not as effective you had them. We don't even have an option to try a "crap tree line"
You're complaining your choices sucked, I'm saying at least you have them.
Your definition and understanding of a unique sorc build is quite entertaining.
Someone that claims having a unique build while using the same abilities as all the other magicka sorcs, really?
As a magicka sorc you have many choices that actually have their root in class abilities to become more efficient
while a stam sorc cannot as per design.
@FENGRUSH choices sucked because the real strength of the sorc lays somewhere else to perform much better.
Technically we actually don't pick a class, we pick a resource and then we test and try out things that result in highly efficient unique builds.
A class it self is only a pre defined set of abilities, more important are the resulting builds setup by the player. But if his decision really can make use of the class potential can vary between 0-100% especially when depending on resource.
Most Magicka builds are actually using class abilities while Stamina builds are not.
One reason I do not agree with Wrobel either, because average players don't pick a class just to end up with nice passives and using 20% of their class abilities on quick slots only. They expect a bit more from "pre defined abilities", a class needs to offer this independent of the resource decision a player makes.
A Stam sorc has no choice and heavily relies on weapon lines or any other "external" stuff to justify his class of choice ...
Wtf is this, you restrict players to a resource decision they make , this has nothing todo with freedom of class choice , it's simply a severe design issue.
Waffennacht wrote: »
Just making this quick, yeah same moves different armors, CP, and potions
Waffennacht wrote: »
Just making this quick, yeah same moves different armors, CP, and potions
No it's not the same, you just don't know the difference between helpful external adjustments available for everyone and a basis provided by a class without depending on resource. It's been called freedom of choice and it's a fact that you rely on external skill lines as a stam sorc and less on class abilities.
You are blaming Fengrush for bashing the Stam Sorc since release for a questionable design.
But he has a point, while you don't. So the question remains why would you pick a class when you end up with less class abilities and rely on external skills like weapons so much.
Once again players want to pick a class without gimping themselves but the reality is that they rely on a resource and need to go from there. Now you claim as a Magicka Sorc that Stam sorcs are having a lot more choices. Hilarious.
Waffennacht wrote: »My point which can't be argued. Is: Stamina has more options than magicka.
Stamina has always had more options, more fun, and better time than magicka since console release. End of Story.
FENGRUSH was spoiled complaining about his choices. Again, at least he had choices.
Anyone whom has played magicka for over a year will find a Far easier time being a stam character because the game incentives stamina.
Waffennacht wrote: »My point which can't be argued. Is: Stamina has more options than magicka.
You a real funny guy, of course it can be argued because you are still ignoring the fact that you don't pick a class
to use abilities that are not been provided by the class it self.
The point is that a pure stat machine and reasonable passives are not enough to praise the stam changes since release and it will not improve lack of utility either. Now you expect players to build work arounds because of this sloppy class design? Sorry, but thats Wrobels job.Stamina has always had more options, more fun, and better time than magicka since console release. End of Story.
Nope, because this is not about fun it's about builds that are questionable because they could be more flexible and perform much better in comparison to any other class when it comes to harmonizing class abilities.FENGRUSH was spoiled complaining about his choices. Again, at least he had choices.
Anyone whom has played magicka for over a year will find a Far easier time being a stam character because the game incentives stamina.
A stam character implies that you have the choice of 4 classes and anyone who plays this game knows that all other classes harmonize much better with Stamina than a Sorc.
Sorry, but you cannot blame players for the unfinished class design.
For most players there is no reason to play or try a Stam Sorc for a reason.
There are still exceptions like Fengrush and others including my self trying to come up with work arounds and viable builds but it doesn't change the fact that Stam Sorcs are unfinished per design because it makes no sense to pick a class when you barely use it skills. End of story.
Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »My point which can't be argued. Is: Stamina has more options than magicka.
You a real funny guy, of course it can be argued because you are still ignoring the fact that you don't pick a class
to use abilities that are not been provided by the class it self.
The point is that a pure stat machine and reasonable passives are not enough to praise the stam changes since release and it will not improve lack of utility either. Now you expect players to build work arounds because of this sloppy class design? Sorry, but thats Wrobels job.Stamina has always had more options, more fun, and better time than magicka since console release. End of Story.
Nope, because this is not about fun it's about builds that are questionable because they could be more flexible and perform much better in comparison to any other class when it comes to harmonizing class abilities.FENGRUSH was spoiled complaining about his choices. Again, at least he had choices.
Anyone whom has played magicka for over a year will find a Far easier time being a stam character because the game incentives stamina.
A stam character implies that you have the choice of 4 classes and anyone who plays this game knows that all other classes harmonize much better with Stamina than a Sorc.
Sorry, but you cannot blame players for the unfinished class design.
For most players there is no reason to play or try a Stam Sorc for a reason.
There are still exceptions like Fengrush and others including my self trying to come up with work arounds and viable builds but it doesn't change the fact that Stam Sorcs are unfinished per design because it makes no sense to pick a class when you barely use it skills. End of story.
First, I find that "it's not about fun" sad.
Your point that stam sorc specifically need work, and the over all game mechanics is not wrong, but isn't contradictory to what I'm saying either.
Stam sorc may be at the bottom of the hill in stam builds, again not relevant to what I'm saying. I can point out 2H had WB,and Rally, DW had spin2win and bow had snipe. That list is more variety than any magicka build has, destro staff and resto... nice... one attack weapon... nice.
So your argument maybe, "no class stam abilities" that would matter if the build was in a bubble and didn't have access to weapon skills. It seems to me you guys finished the hardest content in game without em. And you ask "why pick stam sorc?"
Good question if you don't like the class.
R you upset other classes do better because you made a conscious decision to pick a "gimped" class? (But apparently not gimped enough to prevent you from doing anything...)
Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »My point which can't be argued. Is: Stamina has more options than magicka.
You a real funny guy, of course it can be argued because you are still ignoring the fact that you don't pick a class
to use abilities that are not been provided by the class it self.
The point is that a pure stat machine and reasonable passives are not enough to praise the stam changes since release and it will not improve lack of utility either. Now you expect players to build work arounds because of this sloppy class design? Sorry, but thats Wrobels job.Stamina has always had more options, more fun, and better time than magicka since console release. End of Story.
Nope, because this is not about fun it's about builds that are questionable because they could be more flexible and perform much better in comparison to any other class when it comes to harmonizing class abilities.FENGRUSH was spoiled complaining about his choices. Again, at least he had choices.
Anyone whom has played magicka for over a year will find a Far easier time being a stam character because the game incentives stamina.
A stam character implies that you have the choice of 4 classes and anyone who plays this game knows that all other classes harmonize much better with Stamina than a Sorc.
Sorry, but you cannot blame players for the unfinished class design.
For most players there is no reason to play or try a Stam Sorc for a reason.
There are still exceptions like Fengrush and others including my self trying to come up with work arounds and viable builds but it doesn't change the fact that Stam Sorcs are unfinished per design because it makes no sense to pick a class when you barely use it skills. End of story.
First, I find that "it's not about fun" sad.
Stam sorc may be at the bottom of the hill in stam builds
So your argument maybe, "no class stam abilities" that would matter if the build was in a bubble and didn't have access to weapon skills. It seems to me you guys finished the hardest content in game without em. And you ask "why pick stam sorc?"
Good question if you don't like the class.
R you upset other classes do better because you made a conscious decision to pick a "gimped" class? (But apparently not gimped enough to prevent you from doing anything...)
Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »My point which can't be argued. Is: Stamina has more options than magicka.
You a real funny guy, of course it can be argued because you are still ignoring the fact that you don't pick a class
to use abilities that are not been provided by the class it self.
The point is that a pure stat machine and reasonable passives are not enough to praise the stam changes since release and it will not improve lack of utility either. Now you expect players to build work arounds because of this sloppy class design? Sorry, but thats Wrobels job.Stamina has always had more options, more fun, and better time than magicka since console release. End of Story.
Nope, because this is not about fun it's about builds that are questionable because they could be more flexible and perform much better in comparison to any other class when it comes to harmonizing class abilities.FENGRUSH was spoiled complaining about his choices. Again, at least he had choices.
Anyone whom has played magicka for over a year will find a Far easier time being a stam character because the game incentives stamina.
A stam character implies that you have the choice of 4 classes and anyone who plays this game knows that all other classes harmonize much better with Stamina than a Sorc.
Sorry, but you cannot blame players for the unfinished class design.
For most players there is no reason to play or try a Stam Sorc for a reason.
There are still exceptions like Fengrush and others including my self trying to come up with work arounds and viable builds but it doesn't change the fact that Stam Sorcs are unfinished per design because it makes no sense to pick a class when you barely use it skills. End of story.
First, I find that "it's not about fun" sad.
Well the Stam criticism has nothing todo with our fun playing this game in general.Stam sorc may be at the bottom of the hill in stam builds
Now we talking, you start being honest.So your argument maybe, "no class stam abilities" that would matter if the build was in a bubble and didn't have access to weapon skills. It seems to me you guys finished the hardest content in game without em. And you ask "why pick stam sorc?"
Good question if you don't like the class.
It's not a question of like , it's a question of improving things that are not balanced.
Before I criticize a class I have compared several builds with both resources and then I come to a conclusion.
And technically it makes no sense to pick a class with lack of utility when other classes are able todo a better stam job.R you upset other classes do better because you made a conscious decision to pick a "gimped" class? (But apparently not gimped enough to prevent you from doing anything...)
Silly, how can this be someones motivation?
A couple lines before you agreed that Stam sorc is at the bottom of the hill in stam builds.
And now you act like that everything works as expected and doesn't need change for improvment?
Is that the way how you solve problems? Congrats.
Sweeps heal you with any hit, burning light does not interfere with these heals at all.
Hi guys, this thread is getting a bit heated. It's perfectly fine to debate or disagree, but it is important to keep this respectful. Please remember to keep your posts civil and constructive, as we discuss in greater depth here.
Soooo back to the original topic...
Should Implosion have either a higher chance or better threshold? My view is that it is what it is and if zos messed with either they would probably feel obliged to mess with the overall damage. I do rather like @Dracane idea of increasing the threshold but having the damage based on a how much % health they have left - but again don't want a 10% threshold increase to greatly reduce the damage of the effect under 15% as this would be a significant reduction in the passives usefulness.
Aemon_Isklexi wrote: »Iterating on game mechanics isn't a zero sum process. Bringing attention to one iffy mechanic doesn't detract from giving feedback on other mechanics. Certainly abilities that are outright broken (in one way or another) will have priority on developer time, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't discuss other potential changes to the game. Forum discussions don't really cost anything because if our time was really worth something, we wouldn't be puttering around on a video game forum.
If you have issues with other skills in the game, you should start a discussion thread for them. Mindless criticism may be foolish, but reasoned debate and discussion are never a waste of time.
Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
Just making this quick, yeah same moves different armors, CP, and potions
No it's not the same, you just don't know the difference between helpful external adjustments available for everyone and a basis provided by a class without depending on resource. It's been called freedom of choice and it's a fact that you rely on external skill lines as a stam sorc and less on class abilities.
You are blaming Fengrush for bashing the Stam Sorc since release for a questionable design.
But he has a point, while you don't. So the question remains why would you pick a class when you end up with less class abilities and rely on external skills like weapons so much.
Once again players want to pick a class without gimping themselves but the reality is that they rely on a resource and need to go from there. Now you claim as a Magicka Sorc that Stam sorcs are having a lot more choices. Hilarious.
I picked sorcerer about 1.3 years ago. At that time I only played magicka sorc. You may ask why did I stay with it? Because I didn't want to grind the mountain that was Alliance skills or the veteran ranks without enlightened.
Aka, only recently has there been options to make an alt for someone whom only has as much time as I do to play.
My point which can't be argued. Is: Stamina has more options than magicka. Any player complaining about lack of options that is stamina has no room to talk. Period. I don't give a flying @$!# that FENGRUSH didn't beat vMA easily enough because flurry just wasn't up to standards.
Stamina has always had more options, more fun, and better time than magicka since console release. End of Story. FENGRUSH was spoiled complaining about his choices. Again, at least he had choices.
Anyone whom has played magicka for over a year will find a Far easier time being a stam character because the game incentives stamina. Period. GG, please play again.
Waffennacht wrote: »@Thelon is really the best magicka sorc I know of. I do NOT consider any GROUP player to be professional, anyone that RELIES on others is inherently weak.
He solos vet dungeons, I haven't seen any other players post soloing 5 different vet dungeons.
His build is exactly the same as Yolo's build, except pets instead of buff toggles.
@Thelon, do you feel magicka sorc or stam sorc has more viable armor and moves?
Who on EARTH feels magicka sorc has more viable armor and moves than stam sorc?
Im waiting
Btw: over 3000 hours as magicka sorc
Edit: still waiting
Waffennacht wrote: »@Thelon is really the best magicka sorc I know of. I do NOT consider any GROUP player to be professional, anyone that RELIES on others is inherently weak.
He solos vet dungeons, I haven't seen any other players post soloing 5 different vet dungeons.
His build is exactly the same as Yolo's build, except pets instead of buff toggles.
@Thelon, do you feel magicka sorc or stam sorc has more viable armor and moves?
Who on EARTH feels magicka sorc has more viable armor and moves than stam sorc?
Im waiting
Btw: over 3000 hours as magicka sorc
Edit: still waiting
Now go ahead and tag a Stam Sorc that's solo'd 5 different vet dungeons...Should be easy with all their options
What kind of logic is that? Who cares? This game isn't even made to solo dungeons (Not saying you cannot do it). You say that's the test of skill but I say that's the test of ego -- and you calling out @FENGRUSH only perpetuates that idea. Besides people are going to make arguments based on how they play the game. @FENGRUSH does small group play as a Stam Sorc so his decisions, his knowledge, his skill set will be based on that and we WANT to hear that point of view. @Waffennacht your skill set I guess is solo play as a Magicka Sorc so etc etc etc and we WANT to hear that point of view.
But I am here on earth and I think that magicka sorc has more viable moves than stam sorc when looking at the Sorc skill line.
Daedric skill line I would say Magicka sorc owns that skill line. I see you mention every pet build player in the game so I know, you know, that this skill line is for Magicka Sorc users. The only Ult for Stam users (when playing solo) is probably Atro and the only way for Stam users to make the passives beneficial.
Dark Magic skill line Stam Sorc gets one skill line morph here (but really Magicka gets a magicka morph here on the only stam in the skill line). The passives in this skill line are better for Stam Sorc but you can't deny that Magicka Sorc gets the better end of the deal.
Storm Calling skill line is another Magicka Sorc powerhouse but again Stam does gain some good utility from this skill line. But the majority of the skills will never be used by a Stam Sorc. Passives here are pretty even but that Capacitor passive seems to be more beneficial to one side.
I think the Sorc Skill line is wholly in Magicka Sorcs favor.
As far as looking at gear, well, Magicka could use a 1 piece recovery à la Blood Spawn but what else are they missing that Stamina has to make them so much better? I guess, I could come up with some arguments in your favor for this. But I don't find them better than Magicka gear sets and 100% not enough to call people out that think differently.
I spent too much time writing this nevermind.
SwaminoNowlino wrote: »Stamina Templar : Jabs, Javelin, Power of the Light. Class abilities that provide utility and damage based on Stamina.
Stamina Dragon Knight: Noxious Breath, Venomous Claw, Dragon Leap (and I think a few others). Class abilities that provide utility and damage based on stamina.
Stamina Nightblade: Just about every class ability has a choice between magicka and stamina. Class passives synergize very well with both types of build.
Stamina Sorcerer: Not a thing until DB when they got Hurricane.
How is this even still a discussion?