kylewwefan wrote: »I tried Malubeth on my nite blade tank. It worked ok I guess, but I like blood spawn better. Until I get lord warden......
PainfulFAFA wrote: »kylewwefan wrote: »I tried Malubeth on my nite blade tank. It worked ok I guess, but I like blood spawn better. Until I get lord warden......
Thats because Pre-DB battlespirit is affecting Malubeth which actually makes it balanced.
Post DB, battlespirit no longer applies (they call it a fix lmao) and so the healing you get is OP af
When Malubeth procs, that 2nd bonus effect is equivalent to having 148 free/extra CP split between Blessed + Quick Recovery for that extra 30% healing AND bypasses battlespirit and yet we got people calling this balanced..... lmfao.
Now throw in another extra 30% from Major mending, 8% Minor Mending, Powered traits (5% extra healing recieved EACH) and CP in the right places. Yes, this set has always seemed strong obviously because of the fact that the 2nd bonus has no buff category just like bloodspawn's 2nd bonus doesnt have a buff category, its just a flat value buff which is why they have always been good sets in pvp. But once you tried Malubeth before DB, you had to work with your gear and CPs to make the heals bigger but now you dont even have to try. Just put it on, and youre good to go... tank 5 dudes in medium/light no problem.
Free 148 CP into healing bonuses when this set procs.... smh. Needs to be changed to major mending/minor mending.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
PainfulFAFA wrote: »kylewwefan wrote: »I tried Malubeth on my nite blade tank. It worked ok I guess, but I like blood spawn better. Until I get lord warden......
Thats because Pre-DB battlespirit is affecting Malubeth which actually makes it balanced.
Post DB, battlespirit no longer applies (they call it a fix lmao) and so the healing you get is OP af
When Malubeth procs, that 2nd bonus effect is equivalent to having 148 free/extra CP split between Blessed + Quick Recovery for that extra 30% healing AND bypasses battlespirit and yet we got people calling this balanced..... lmfao.
Now throw in another extra 30% from Major mending, 8% Minor Mending, Powered traits (5% extra healing recieved EACH) and CP in the right places. Yes, this set has always seemed strong obviously because of the fact that the 2nd bonus has no buff category just like bloodspawn's 2nd bonus doesnt have a buff category, its just a flat value buff which is why they have always been good sets in pvp. But once you tried Malubeth before DB, you had to work with your gear and CPs to make the heals bigger but now you dont even have to try. Just put it on, and youre good to go... tank 5 dudes in medium/light no problem.
Free 148 CP into healing bonuses when this set procs.... smh. Needs to be changed to major mending/minor mending.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Absolutely not changed to Major Mending. If it changes at all, it should become Major Vitality. But not Major Mending.
PainfulFAFA wrote: »kylewwefan wrote: »I tried Malubeth on my nite blade tank. It worked ok I guess, but I like blood spawn better. Until I get lord warden......
Thats because Pre-DB battlespirit is affecting Malubeth which actually makes it balanced.
Post DB, battlespirit no longer applies (they call it a fix lmao) and so the healing you get is OP af
When Malubeth procs, that 2nd bonus effect is equivalent to having 148 free/extra CP split between Blessed + Quick Recovery for that extra 30% healing AND bypasses battlespirit and yet we got people calling this balanced..... lmfao.
Now throw in another extra 30% from Major mending, 8% Minor Mending, Powered traits (5% extra healing recieved EACH) and CP in the right places. Yes, this set has always seemed strong obviously because of the fact that the 2nd bonus has no buff category just like bloodspawn's 2nd bonus doesnt have a buff category, its just a flat value buff which is why they have always been good sets in pvp. But once you tried Malubeth before DB, you had to work with your gear and CPs to make the heals bigger but now you dont even have to try. Just put it on, and youre good to go... tank 5 dudes in medium/light no problem.
Free 148 CP into healing bonuses when this set procs.... smh. Needs to be changed to major mending/minor mending.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
incognito222 wrote: »I've been following both threads (here and the one titled "Malubeth in pvp") and agree both sides have valid points. IMHO we need more concrete data and testing prior to reaching a conclusion. As some have suggested, it may (or may not) be other factors contributing to the set performing more than intended (and not due to the set itself). With time, I hope this becomes clearer for all of us.
In future after undeniable proof (through tests, more data and solid numbers) if this set is indeed over performing, I am all for it to be more balanced, but not before. At the moment when I decide to equip this set during 1v1, I win some and lose some, which is the nature of gaming. Has it made me more survivable? Yes. Has it made me a godlike potato? No, I get stomped on 1v1 by others quite often.
I'd like to ask everyone to consider the current state of PVP from another perspective. I am beginning to notice a certain psychological phenomena that may have been conditioned over the years and months of playing ESO PVP. Please correct me if my observations are mistaken :
"Due to the DPS race, players are used to bursting down and killing others quickly that it has become normal for them to do so. Having a player stand their ground and survive longer than 'usual' (or being harder to kill by them not dodge rolling, blinking or cloaking away) is considered 'unnatural' and has become the cause of much grief for many. If the developers intended players (tanks in particular) to be more survivable by equipping this set, would they be wrong to do so? Admittedly, other non-tanks are equipping this set to be complement their playstyle and become more survivable. Is it wrong to stand your ground and be survivable ?"
Something for us to reflect and think about ...
I believe the core intention is to allow for all playstyles and that is what the developers are trying to provide through introduction of various item sets, weapons, poisons, skills, etc.
I'm relieved to see the community come together to discuss and provide constructive criticism in a game we all love and enjoy. Despite its many shortcomings, the developers are trying to improve the state of the game, and we should give them credit for trying. I can only imagine how horrendously difficult it must be to manage an MMO and we do not know what constraints they have to work with. Nobody wants to put a faulty product on the market on purpose, especially if it feeds their families.
Just my two cents ... wish you all a good day, peace and happiness to all.
The set is very very easy to proc, and sometimes it can be up 100% of the time. On stam builds that have dodge roll, shuffle, and a class such as temp or DK that has easy access to major mending its just stupid at that point, 3k-5k vigor ticks
Even on magicka its very strong. ZOS needs to look at this set and do something about it, its completely over powered in its current form
incognito222 wrote: »PainfulFAFA wrote: »kylewwefan wrote: »I tried Malubeth on my nite blade tank. It worked ok I guess, but I like blood spawn better. Until I get lord warden......
Thats because Pre-DB battlespirit is affecting Malubeth which actually makes it balanced.
Post DB, battlespirit no longer applies (they call it a fix lmao) and so the healing you get is OP af
When Malubeth procs, that 2nd bonus effect is equivalent to having 148 free/extra CP split between Blessed + Quick Recovery for that extra 30% healing AND bypasses battlespirit and yet we got people calling this balanced..... lmfao.
Now throw in another extra 30% from Major mending, 8% Minor Mending, Powered traits (5% extra healing recieved EACH) and CP in the right places. Yes, this set has always seemed strong obviously because of the fact that the 2nd bonus has no buff category just like bloodspawn's 2nd bonus doesnt have a buff category, its just a flat value buff which is why they have always been good sets in pvp. But once you tried Malubeth before DB, you had to work with your gear and CPs to make the heals bigger but now you dont even have to try. Just put it on, and youre good to go... tank 5 dudes in medium/light no problem.
Free 148 CP into healing bonuses when this set procs.... smh. Needs to be changed to major mending/minor mending.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
If I understand you correctly, along with Malubeth bonus you're setting a rather niche example where you choose a class with major mending + access to minor mending would equip dual weapons (because you emphasized EACH) with powered trait on both weapons + allocate specific CP to aim for a build that would benefit more from healing. If a players aims towards a setup that will grant extra healing via specific skill, gear and CP, then they deserve to get the benefits as they for sure will be sacrificing other things such as damage output, etc.
Its like arguing an Orc (extra movement speed) + 7/7 medium armor (extra movement speed) + steed mundus (extra movement speed) + roll dodge while equipping bow (extra movement speed) + speed potion + CP allocation to get extra movement speed, should be nerfed because you cannot achieve what they can.
I cannot support your argument to nerf the Malubeth Scourge set without seeing more valid data and numbers. Opinions tend to be subjective without supporting data.
I'd like to see first hand how anyone can tank 5 competent players in medium / light + using Malubeth as you stated. Just came back from a dueling session on Haderus NA, few players were testing Malubeth and as I stand by my opinion in this thread and the other one "Malubeth in pvp" that this set may not be as powerful as some would lead me to believe. Those of us using Malubeth lost (and won) some fights to those who did not, like any other day.
Those in the duel session had opposing opinions, similar to the two threads on this topic. I've suggested them to come over and share their opinions as well, for a balanced and healthy discussion. Hopefully, more numbers and real data will be brought to light that way.
Small sample of duel outcome playing as a HA Magplar:
Fought a DK (both of us wearing Malubeth), outcome : could not kill each other.
Fought the same DK (Skoria vs Bloodspawn), outcome : could not kill each other.
Fought another DK (used Malubeth, opponent did not), outcome : I got killed pretty fast.
Fought a Templar (used Malubeth, opponent did not), outcome : I got killed pretty fast.
Again, one should not discount the possibility that I lost due to my probable lack of skills.
In fact, the duels I won were the ones when I had Skoria equipped. I did not win a single duel using Malubeth. I understand this example is not sufficient to reach a conclusion. I encourage more players to contribute to this thread and the other thread as well, for the greater good of the community.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , in the meantime if you could, kindly check with the development team if this set is over performing in any way, or whether other factors already discussed on this thread (and the thread "Malubeth in pvp") is causing this undaunted set to do so.
Thank you, peace and have a great day everyone.
PainfulFAFA wrote: »
Opinions tend to be subjective without supporting data? I suppose everyones opnion in this thread is subjective because so far... NOBODY has given concrete analysis as top why this set is not overperforming. All i see is "streamers this and streamers that", "its worked like this before" (lmfao at these people) and the closest person to bring worthwhile argument was Joy but even his argument isnt has strong (hes arguing what i mentioned about the battle spirit changes to Malubeth and its 1st bonues and then posts an image.... an image showing a weak 1st bonus damage proc, but the heal he got from that proc is 1k and his non-crit BoL healed him for 8k...lol)
incognito222 wrote: »"Im getting 4k surge heals PER SECOND, and stam sorcs dont even have access to any healing bonuses outside of CPs.
But my point is clear... 4k-4.5k surge heals per second, 4-5k vigor heals PER SEC is TOO OP.... can only imagine what every other class can do with it when they stack their bonuses.... 6-7k vigor heals?? Some templar was pulling 20k BoL heals....in pvp... wtf. Stamplars/stamdks can easily pull 8k+ vigor heals.... its dumb."
@PainfulFAFA , would you help the community by taking screenshots of 4k surge heals per second on your stam sorc ? Perhaps its your stam sorc's surge heals that needs a nerf and not the Malubeth set (haha kidding).
On the other thread discussing this, the potentially excessive heals from Vigor + Malubeth was raised as well and have yet to determine if the theoretical numbers are achievable.
I am a maxed out Magicka Templar and have tried to get 20k BoL heals during Malubeth proc as you stated, but am currently unable to get anywhere close to that. Similarly, some Templars tried as well but could not get close to 20K. We could be doing something wrong.
Refer to post #56 for "valid numbers" if you want to call it that.
And testing broken stuff like this in duels it not the most reliable way to do so.... because its DUELs. I can completely negate your rock with my paper and changing CPs around.
My opinion about malubeth is coming from my stam sorc experience with it. I should not be able to take down 1 templar, and 3 nightblades by myself face tanking them and rolling around and still survive in this insane damage meta, but apprarantly i can do that with malubeth... on a stam sorc. I should not be able to play ring around the tree while 10 blues are chasing me for 10 mins. but apparently i can do that with malubeth. When this set procs, your HP is immediatly up to full.
The problem isnt that people can make healing builds at the cost of damage or watever... the problem is that the 2nd bonus is stackable when it should be giving a Major/Minor bonus. A templar with this set isnt going to die, you will need a zerg.
I beg to differ, the reason we tried it in duels is to find truth in claims by some who called for nerf, who stated on forum threads that anyone wearing this set is near unkillable. That turned out to be an exaggeration as it was proven during duels that you can 1v1 and consistently kill players (Templars and DKs too) using this set. And the participants did not change CP's around, to be neutral, everything was left as how each individual would run in an open world setting.
I am a magicka Templar, gold gear on most pieces, definitely not immortal 1v1 with Malubeth proccing. I find your statement difficult to accept when you say it takes a whole zerg to kill a single Templar wearing Malubeth.
Your experience as a stam sorc is valuable input to this thread, especially when you state you can heal 4K+ surge heals per second. I cannot verify nor deny your claim, others who play stam sorc will have to confirm this.
Your claim that you were pulling circles around TEN DC players for a whole 10 minutes is testament to your skill in PVP. Furthermore, FACE tanking 1 Templar and 3 NBs at the same time and killing them all by yourself is most likely attributed to your OP skill and not any kind of equipment or armor set. You are the only player capable of doing these things as far as I am aware.PainfulFAFA wrote: »
Opinions tend to be subjective without supporting data? I suppose everyones opnion in this thread is subjective because so far... NOBODY has given concrete analysis as top why this set is not overperforming. All i see is "streamers this and streamers that", "its worked like this before" (lmfao at these people) and the closest person to bring worthwhile argument was Joy but even his argument isnt has strong (hes arguing what i mentioned about the battle spirit changes to Malubeth and its 1st bonues and then posts an image.... an image showing a weak 1st bonus damage proc, but the heal he got from that proc is 1k and his non-crit BoL healed him for 8k...lol)
I would suggest you review this thread and the other one where you have posted numerous times: "Malubeth in pvp", although still limited, some players have started to provide screenshots on healing generated, etc. ... I believe more will come over time, as the community reads both threads and gain awareness of the issue. Yourself stating that NOBODY has given concrete analysis could well be because this issue needs time to analyze.
Decisions must be based on reliable facts and data before being taken. I understand your frustration as you believe strongly in your opinions but IMHO it would be wise for the community and developers to not be hasty to cast judgement. We need to be sure the set by itself is over performing (or not), while also considering other game mechanics that work together with said set that resulted in the high numbers you have shared with us.
I think the Malubeth 2 pc set will have to change to Major Vitality buff while the beam is active to prevent triple stacking heal buffs.
In addition, I think high numbers is coming from the heal double dipping with criticals and CP.
Thaumaturge and Elfborn effect the size of the damage and heal so in effect the set is double dipping in CP. I actually forgot to check if Elemental Expert effects as well.
Outside of those things mentioned, I don't think the set is fundamentally flawed.
Knowing to make distance to break the beam is basic L2P.
Once again, I'll tag @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and @wrobel...
PainfulFAFA wrote: »
Do you mean this thread? https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269618/malubeth-set-in-pvp/p1
I strongly suggest YOU reread that thread....the only person providing screenshots and data on healing generated is @Synozeer.... who is arguing that Malubeth is bugged/something is off. Everyone else in that thread have no idea what theyre talking about.
Decisions must be based on reliable data? I agree... except nobody who thinks this set is OK is providing facts/data. They simply dont know lol. Other people like myself and @Synozeer have have actually tried to show something is off with this set and people still refuse to accept let alone provide their own constructive arguments.
Until then, i suppose i'll just wear it and continue to facetank and smash groups of 5-10 at a time...until players have had enough and they hop on the wagon lol
DK passive increase healing recieved by 12% with a draconic ability active
DK Skill morph coagulating blood increase healing recieved by 8%
Heavy armoru passive increase healing recieved by 8%
Malubeth Proc while teathered increase healingr ecieved by 30%
12% + 8% + 8% = 28% for DK tanks + 30% for Malubet thats 58% more healing from all sources before factoring in champion points or even adding any crafted/drop set (besides malubeth).
With the joke of heals for a magicka DK in pvp since IC, malubeth is one very sound and great option if you ask me.
The base healing formula for a healer using a variety of sources of Healing Done and Healing Taken and Healing Received is
The Tooltip value is increased by Restoration Master, Soul Siphoner, Major Mending and the Ritual Mundus. These add additively. Healing Done was tested with Blessed. Healing Taken was tested with Tormentor and Leeching sets. Healing Received was tested to be additive with Quick Recovery [Champion Point], Rapid Mending [Heavy Armour Passive], Minor Vitality [Swallow Soul & Coagulating Blood], Burning Heart [Draconic Power Passive] and Quick to Mend [Argonian Passive].
Example
A V16 Argonian cast Healing Springs. This character has 12% Healing Taken from the Tormentor and Leeching Sets and has 100 points in Blessed (25% Healing Done) and 100 points in Quick Recovery (16% Healing Received). In addition, this character is wearing 7 Heavy armour pieces (7% Healing Received), has the Minor Vitality buff, has a Draconic Power ability active and has 3 points in the Quick to Mend passive. This tooltip value includes the bonuses from Restoration Master, Major Mending and the Ritual Mundus.
The recorded in-game healing is 3264.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »DK passive increase healing recieved by 12% with a draconic ability active
DK Skill morph coagulating blood increase healing recieved by 8%
Heavy armoru passive increase healing recieved by 8%
Malubeth Proc while teathered increase healingr ecieved by 30%
12% + 8% + 8% = 28% for DK tanks + 30% for Malubet thats 58% more healing from all sources before factoring in champion points or even adding any crafted/drop set (besides malubeth).
With the joke of heals for a magicka DK in pvp since IC, malubeth is one very sound and great option if you ask me.
from our great lord Asayre-
The base healing formula for a healer using a variety of sources of Healing Done and Healing Taken and Healing Received is
The Tooltip value is increased by Restoration Master, Soul Siphoner, Major Mending and the Ritual Mundus. These add additively. Healing Done was tested with Blessed. Healing Taken was tested with Tormentor and Leeching sets. Healing Received was tested to be additive with Quick Recovery [Champion Point], Rapid Mending [Heavy Armour Passive], Minor Vitality [Swallow Soul & Coagulating Blood], Burning Heart [Draconic Power Passive] and Quick to Mend [Argonian Passive].
Example
A V16 Argonian cast Healing Springs. This character has 12% Healing Taken from the Tormentor and Leeching Sets and has 100 points in Blessed (25% Healing Done) and 100 points in Quick Recovery (16% Healing Received). In addition, this character is wearing 7 Heavy armour pieces (7% Healing Received), has the Minor Vitality buff, has a Draconic Power ability active and has 3 points in the Quick to Mend passive. This tooltip value includes the bonuses from Restoration Master, Major Mending and the Ritual Mundus.
The recorded in-game healing is 3264.
so you are right.
Yup anything that lets you survive for longer than 30 seconds MUST BE NERFED. This is wubbles insta-gib meta.
Yup anything that lets you survive for longer than 30 seconds MUST BE NERFED. This is wubbles insta-gib meta.
Yup anything that lets you survive for longer than 30 seconds MUST BE NERFED. This is wubbles insta-gib meta.
No need to get all sarcastic about it, odds are ZOS won't lend an ear anyway.
I actually like long fights. My build is an anti-burst, anti-gank build, and I aim at outsustaining my opponent(s).
The point is not to nerf anything that makes it possible to survive 30 seconds.
I'm a born tank.
I build to survive for that long.
But this here piece enables *anyone* to survive, from bathrobe wearers to shoe-smelling rogues, shield- and shuffle- stackers alike.
And *everyone* is wearing it.
So something ain't right, is all.
Yup anything that lets you survive for longer than 30 seconds MUST BE NERFED. This is wubbles insta-gib meta.
No need to get all sarcastic about it, odds are ZOS won't lend an ear anyway.
I actually like long fights. My build is an anti-burst, anti-gank build, and I aim at outsustaining my opponent(s).
The point is not to nerf anything that makes it possible to survive 30 seconds.
I'm a born tank.
I build to survive for that long.
But this here piece enables *anyone* to survive, from bathrobe wearers to shoe-smelling rogues, shield- and shuffle- stackers alike.
And *everyone* is wearing it.
So something ain't right, is all.
That isnt quite true. Healing only works when u can survive.. If your a bathrobe wearer in non-pvp gear, your dead to 1 snipebush. You need to be able to kite, LOS etc etc while your heals tick. Or if your a templar jab jab. Sure the numbers look a little inflated sometimes but still no conclusive proof as to whether the set is broken or not. I could give you 1000000% healing and your still gona be dead to one combo wombo.
This set only works on my DK tank. Pretty much all of my other toons are running valkyns, kena or engin. I still cant quite figure out whats wrong with this set. ZOS needs to come clean and actually tell us the mechanics of how this set actually works and whats intended. If not, its just all speculation cos LUA or CA just lumps all healing together and displays it as scourge harvester.
As I have no maths and no tests to back me up, and as I've already given my impressionistic comments on the subject, this is my last message here.Yup anything that lets you survive for longer than 30 seconds MUST BE NERFED. This is wubbles insta-gib meta.
No need to get all sarcastic about it, odds are ZOS won't lend an ear anyway.
I actually like long fights. My build is an anti-burst, anti-gank build, and I aim at outsustaining my opponent(s).
The point is not to nerf anything that makes it possible to survive 30 seconds.
I'm a born tank.
I build to survive for that long.
But this here piece enables *anyone* to survive, from bathrobe wearers to shoe-smelling rogues, shield- and shuffle- stackers alike.
And *everyone* is wearing it.
So something ain't right, is all.
That isnt quite true. Healing only works when u can survive.. If your a bathrobe wearer in non-pvp gear, your dead to 1 snipebush. You need to be able to kite, LOS etc etc while your heals tick. Or if your a templar jab jab. Sure the numbers look a little inflated sometimes but still no conclusive proof as to whether the set is broken or not. I could give you 1000000% healing and your still gona be dead to one combo wombo.
Thanks for the polite understatement, 'that isn't quite true'. Are you English?
I was, hum, exaggerating for the sake of argument.
You are 100% right, of courseThis set only works on my DK tank. Pretty much all of my other toons are running valkyns, kena or engin. I still cant quite figure out whats wrong with this set. ZOS needs to come clean and actually tell us the mechanics of how this set actually works and whats intended. If not, its just all speculation cos LUA or CA just lumps all healing together and displays it as scourge harvester.
Well, so you do admit something's wrong, right?
For what it's worth (and I'm not a duellist myself, I love RvR too much), I can't help thinking that the fact the set is prohibited from all duelling tournaments is quite telling.
My (last) two Orcish ¢