Malubeth set

PainfulFAFA · June 2016

kylewwefan wrote: »

I tried Malubeth on my nite blade tank. It worked ok I guess, but I like blood spawn better. Until I get lord warden......

Thats because Pre-DB battlespirit is affecting Malubeth which actually makes it balanced.
Post DB, battlespirit no longer applies (they call it a fix lmao) and so the healing you get is OP af

When Malubeth procs, that 2nd bonus effect is equivalent to having 148 free/extra CP split between Blessed + Quick Recovery for that extra 30% healing AND bypasses battlespirit and yet we got people calling this balanced..... lmfao.

Now throw in another extra 30% from Major mending, 8% Minor Mending, Powered traits (5% extra healing recieved EACH) and CP in the right places. Yes, this set has always seemed strong obviously because of the fact that the 2nd bonus has no buff category just like bloodspawn's 2nd bonus doesnt have a buff category, its just a flat value buff which is why they have always been good sets in pvp. But once you tried Malubeth before DB, you had to work with your gear and CPs to make the heals bigger but now you dont even have to try. Just put it on, and youre good to go... tank 5 dudes in medium/light no problem.

Free 148 CP into healing bonuses when this set procs.... smh. Needs to be changed to major mending/minor mending.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

maxjapank · June 2016

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

I tried Malubeth on my nite blade tank. It worked ok I guess, but I like blood spawn better. Until I get lord warden......

Thats because Pre-DB battlespirit is affecting Malubeth which actually makes it balanced.
Post DB, battlespirit no longer applies (they call it a fix lmao) and so the healing you get is OP af

When Malubeth procs, that 2nd bonus effect is equivalent to having 148 free/extra CP split between Blessed + Quick Recovery for that extra 30% healing AND bypasses battlespirit and yet we got people calling this balanced..... lmfao.

Now throw in another extra 30% from Major mending, 8% Minor Mending, Powered traits (5% extra healing recieved EACH) and CP in the right places. Yes, this set has always seemed strong obviously because of the fact that the 2nd bonus has no buff category just like bloodspawn's 2nd bonus doesnt have a buff category, its just a flat value buff which is why they have always been good sets in pvp. But once you tried Malubeth before DB, you had to work with your gear and CPs to make the heals bigger but now you dont even have to try. Just put it on, and youre good to go... tank 5 dudes in medium/light no problem.

Free 148 CP into healing bonuses when this set procs.... smh. Needs to be changed to major mending/minor mending.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Absolutely not changed to Major Mending. If it changes at all, it should become Major Vitality. But not Major Mending.

PainfulFAFA · June 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

I tried Malubeth on my nite blade tank. It worked ok I guess, but I like blood spawn better. Until I get lord warden......

Thats because Pre-DB battlespirit is affecting Malubeth which actually makes it balanced.
Post DB, battlespirit no longer applies (they call it a fix lmao) and so the healing you get is OP af

When Malubeth procs, that 2nd bonus effect is equivalent to having 148 free/extra CP split between Blessed + Quick Recovery for that extra 30% healing AND bypasses battlespirit and yet we got people calling this balanced..... lmfao.

Now throw in another extra 30% from Major mending, 8% Minor Mending, Powered traits (5% extra healing recieved EACH) and CP in the right places. Yes, this set has always seemed strong obviously because of the fact that the 2nd bonus has no buff category just like bloodspawn's 2nd bonus doesnt have a buff category, its just a flat value buff which is why they have always been good sets in pvp. But once you tried Malubeth before DB, you had to work with your gear and CPs to make the heals bigger but now you dont even have to try. Just put it on, and youre good to go... tank 5 dudes in medium/light no problem.

Free 148 CP into healing bonuses when this set procs.... smh. Needs to be changed to major mending/minor mending.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Absolutely not changed to Major Mending. If it changes at all, it should become Major Vitality. But not Major Mending.

The one that gives bonus to Healing Received. Not sure which one is that one lol but yes it needs change.

incognito222 · June 2016

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

I tried Malubeth on my nite blade tank. It worked ok I guess, but I like blood spawn better. Until I get lord warden......

Thats because Pre-DB battlespirit is affecting Malubeth which actually makes it balanced.
Post DB, battlespirit no longer applies (they call it a fix lmao) and so the healing you get is OP af

When Malubeth procs, that 2nd bonus effect is equivalent to having 148 free/extra CP split between Blessed + Quick Recovery for that extra 30% healing AND bypasses battlespirit and yet we got people calling this balanced..... lmfao.

Now throw in another extra 30% from Major mending, 8% Minor Mending, Powered traits (5% extra healing recieved EACH) and CP in the right places. Yes, this set has always seemed strong obviously because of the fact that the 2nd bonus has no buff category just like bloodspawn's 2nd bonus doesnt have a buff category, its just a flat value buff which is why they have always been good sets in pvp. But once you tried Malubeth before DB, you had to work with your gear and CPs to make the heals bigger but now you dont even have to try. Just put it on, and youre good to go... tank 5 dudes in medium/light no problem.

Free 148 CP into healing bonuses when this set procs.... smh. Needs to be changed to major mending/minor mending.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

If I understand you correctly, along with Malubeth bonus you're setting a rather niche example where you choose a class with major mending + access to minor mending would equip dual weapons (because you emphasized EACH) with powered trait on both weapons + allocate specific CP to aim for a build that would benefit more from healing. If a players aims towards a setup that will grant extra healing via specific skill, gear and CP, then they deserve to get the benefits as they for sure will be sacrificing other things such as damage output, etc.

Its like arguing an Orc (extra movement speed) + 7/7 medium armor (extra movement speed) + steed mundus (extra movement speed) + roll dodge while equipping bow (extra movement speed) + speed potion + CP allocation to get extra movement speed, should be nerfed because you cannot achieve what they can.

I cannot support your argument to nerf the Malubeth Scourge set without seeing more valid data and numbers. Opinions tend to be subjective without supporting data.

I'd like to see first hand how anyone can tank 5 competent players in medium / light + using Malubeth as you stated. Just came back from a dueling session on Haderus NA, few players were testing Malubeth and as I stand by my opinion in this thread and the other one "Malubeth in pvp" that this set may not be as powerful as some would lead me to believe. Those of us using Malubeth lost (and won) some fights to those who did not, like any other day.

Those in the duel session had opposing opinions, similar to the two threads on this topic. I've suggested them to come over and share their opinions as well, for a balanced and healthy discussion. Hopefully, more numbers and real data will be brought to light that way.

Small sample of duel outcome playing as a HA Magplar:
Fought a DK (both of us wearing Malubeth), outcome : could not kill each other.
Fought the same DK (Skoria vs Bloodspawn), outcome : could not kill each other.
Fought another DK (used Malubeth, opponent did not), outcome : I got killed pretty fast.
Fought a Templar (used Malubeth, opponent did not), outcome : I got killed pretty fast.
Again, one should not discount the possibility that I lost due to my probable lack of skills.

In fact, the duels I won were the ones when I had Skoria equipped. I did not win a single duel using Malubeth. I understand this example is not sufficient to reach a conclusion. I encourage more players to contribute to this thread and the other thread as well, for the greater good of the community.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , in the meantime if you could, kindly check with the development team if this set is over performing in any way, or whether other factors already discussed on this thread (and the thread "Malubeth in pvp") is causing this undaunted set to do so.

Thank you, peace and have a great day everyone.

Baconlad · June 2016

Ya'll wanna know a trick with malubeth? Stack thaumaturge. Magick templar here, so I already stack the dog *** out of both Thaum and ele expert, got my malubeth tool tip to read 8ish thousand...great set, please don't nerf, players just need to learn to counter it! Like engine guardian I NEVER let those live, especially the Stamina procs!

Azurethe · June 2016

The set is very very easy to proc, and sometimes it can be up 100% of the time. On stam builds that have dodge roll, shuffle, and a class such as temp or DK that has easy access to major mending its just stupid at that point, 3k-5k vigor ticks

Even on magicka its very strong. ZOS needs to look at this set and do something about it, its completely over powered in its current form

SirDopey · June 2016

incognito222 wrote: »

I've been following both threads (here and the one titled "Malubeth in pvp") and agree both sides have valid points. IMHO we need more concrete data and testing prior to reaching a conclusion. As some have suggested, it may (or may not) be other factors contributing to the set performing more than intended (and not due to the set itself). With time, I hope this becomes clearer for all of us.

In future after undeniable proof (through tests, more data and solid numbers) if this set is indeed over performing, I am all for it to be more balanced, but not before. At the moment when I decide to equip this set during 1v1, I win some and lose some, which is the nature of gaming. Has it made me more survivable? Yes. Has it made me a godlike potato? No, I get stomped on 1v1 by others quite often.

I'd like to ask everyone to consider the current state of PVP from another perspective. I am beginning to notice a certain psychological phenomena that may have been conditioned over the years and months of playing ESO PVP. Please correct me if my observations are mistaken :

"Due to the DPS race, players are used to bursting down and killing others quickly that it has become normal for them to do so. Having a player stand their ground and survive longer than 'usual' (or being harder to kill by them not dodge rolling, blinking or cloaking away) is considered 'unnatural' and has become the cause of much grief for many. If the developers intended players (tanks in particular) to be more survivable by equipping this set, would they be wrong to do so? Admittedly, other non-tanks are equipping this set to be complement their playstyle and become more survivable. Is it wrong to stand your ground and be survivable ?"

Something for us to reflect and think about ...

I believe the core intention is to allow for all playstyles and that is what the developers are trying to provide through introduction of various item sets, weapons, poisons, skills, etc.

I'm relieved to see the community come together to discuss and provide constructive criticism in a game we all love and enjoy. Despite its many shortcomings, the developers are trying to improve the state of the game, and we should give them credit for trying. I can only imagine how horrendously difficult it must be to manage an MMO and we do not know what constraints they have to work with. Nobody wants to put a faulty product on the market on purpose, especially if it feeds their families.

Just my two cents ... wish you all a good day, peace and happiness to all.

Spot on!

If the streamers and their possy can't kill you in less than a minute then something in the game is broken or you must be exploiting!!!!

PainfulFAFA · June 2016

Azurethe wrote: »

The set is very very easy to proc, and sometimes it can be up 100% of the time. On stam builds that have dodge roll, shuffle, and a class such as temp or DK that has easy access to major mending its just stupid at that point, 3k-5k vigor ticks

Even on magicka its very strong. ZOS needs to look at this set and do something about it, its completely over powered in its current form

Im getting 4k surge heals PER SECOND, and stam sorcs dont even have access to any healing bonuses outside of CPs.
But my point is clear... 4k-4.5k surge heals per second, 4-5k vigor heals PER SEC is TOO OP.... can only imagine what every other class can do with it when they stack their bonuses.... 6-7k vigor heals?? Some templar was pulling 20k BoL heals....in pvp... wtf. Stamplars/stamdks can easily pull 8k+ vigor heals.... its dumb.

incognito222 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

I tried Malubeth on my nite blade tank. It worked ok I guess, but I like blood spawn better. Until I get lord warden......

Thats because Pre-DB battlespirit is affecting Malubeth which actually makes it balanced.
Post DB, battlespirit no longer applies (they call it a fix lmao) and so the healing you get is OP af

When Malubeth procs, that 2nd bonus effect is equivalent to having 148 free/extra CP split between Blessed + Quick Recovery for that extra 30% healing AND bypasses battlespirit and yet we got people calling this balanced..... lmfao.

Now throw in another extra 30% from Major mending, 8% Minor Mending, Powered traits (5% extra healing recieved EACH) and CP in the right places. Yes, this set has always seemed strong obviously because of the fact that the 2nd bonus has no buff category just like bloodspawn's 2nd bonus doesnt have a buff category, its just a flat value buff which is why they have always been good sets in pvp. But once you tried Malubeth before DB, you had to work with your gear and CPs to make the heals bigger but now you dont even have to try. Just put it on, and youre good to go... tank 5 dudes in medium/light no problem.

Free 148 CP into healing bonuses when this set procs.... smh. Needs to be changed to major mending/minor mending.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

If I understand you correctly, along with Malubeth bonus you're setting a rather niche example where you choose a class with major mending + access to minor mending would equip dual weapons (because you emphasized EACH) with powered trait on both weapons + allocate specific CP to aim for a build that would benefit more from healing. If a players aims towards a setup that will grant extra healing via specific skill, gear and CP, then they deserve to get the benefits as they for sure will be sacrificing other things such as damage output, etc.

Its like arguing an Orc (extra movement speed) + 7/7 medium armor (extra movement speed) + steed mundus (extra movement speed) + roll dodge while equipping bow (extra movement speed) + speed potion + CP allocation to get extra movement speed, should be nerfed because you cannot achieve what they can.

I cannot support your argument to nerf the Malubeth Scourge set without seeing more valid data and numbers. Opinions tend to be subjective without supporting data.

I'd like to see first hand how anyone can tank 5 competent players in medium / light + using Malubeth as you stated. Just came back from a dueling session on Haderus NA, few players were testing Malubeth and as I stand by my opinion in this thread and the other one "Malubeth in pvp" that this set may not be as powerful as some would lead me to believe. Those of us using Malubeth lost (and won) some fights to those who did not, like any other day.

Those in the duel session had opposing opinions, similar to the two threads on this topic. I've suggested them to come over and share their opinions as well, for a balanced and healthy discussion. Hopefully, more numbers and real data will be brought to light that way.

Small sample of duel outcome playing as a HA Magplar:
Fought a DK (both of us wearing Malubeth), outcome : could not kill each other.
Fought the same DK (Skoria vs Bloodspawn), outcome : could not kill each other.
Fought another DK (used Malubeth, opponent did not), outcome : I got killed pretty fast.
Fought a Templar (used Malubeth, opponent did not), outcome : I got killed pretty fast.
Again, one should not discount the possibility that I lost due to my probable lack of skills.

In fact, the duels I won were the ones when I had Skoria equipped. I did not win a single duel using Malubeth. I understand this example is not sufficient to reach a conclusion. I encourage more players to contribute to this thread and the other thread as well, for the greater good of the community.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , in the meantime if you could, kindly check with the development team if this set is over performing in any way, or whether other factors already discussed on this thread (and the thread "Malubeth in pvp") is causing this undaunted set to do so.

Thank you, peace and have a great day everyone.

Refer to post #56 for "valid numbers" if you want to call it that.
And testing broken stuff like this in duels it not the most reliable way to do so.... because its DUELs. I can completely negate your rock with my paper and changing CPs around.

My opinion about malubeth is coming from my stam sorc experience with it. I should not be able to take down 1 templar, and 3 nightblades by myself face tanking them and rolling around and still survive in this insane damage meta, but apprarantly i can do that with malubeth... on a stam sorc. I should not be able to play ring around the tree while 10 blues are chasing me for 10 mins. but apparently i can do that with malubeth. When this set procs, your HP is immediatly up to full.
The problem isnt that people can make healing builds at the cost of damage or watever... the problem is that the 2nd bonus is stackable when it should be giving a Major/Minor bonus. A templar with this set isnt going to die, you will need a zerg.

Opinions tend to be subjective without supporting data? I suppose everyones opnion in this thread is subjective because so far... NOBODY has given concrete analysis as top why this set is not overperforming. All i see is "streamers this and streamers that", "its worked like this before" (lmfao at these people) and the closest person to bring worthwhile argument was Joy but even his argument isnt has strong (hes arguing what i mentioned about the battle spirit changes to Malubeth and its 1st bonues and then posts an image.... an image showing a weak 1st bonus damage proc, but the heal he got from that proc is 1k and his non-crit BoL healed him for 8k...lol)

I provided the thread where the changes were made and i showed some simple before and after calculations to show why the change made this set too stronk. Want more reasons why this set is overperforming? Ill give a list of things that may counter this that is universal to any class.
1. Fasalla
2. Reverberating Bash
3. poisons/disease enchants
4. range builds (lololol)
Thats pretty much it. Even if you use fasallas, once you do the math, its only a 20% healing reduction that the enemy gets but they can make up for it with other Major/Minor bonuses + gear + CPs.
Even if you use Reverberating Bash, thats the same thing as canceling Malubeth's 30% healing bonus (since major defile = 30% healing reduction). They still have their major mending + CPs + whatever other way to get healing bonuses.
Even if you go range....go ahead and try to take on a DKs, Templars, Nightblades, snares, gapclosers, reflects, etc etc. Fun fun.
Even if you use all counters, that doesnt guarantee that the Malubeth user isnt using them too.
This is FOTM at its finest.

incognito222 · June 2016

"Im getting 4k surge heals PER SECOND, and stam sorcs dont even have access to any healing bonuses outside of CPs.
But my point is clear... 4k-4.5k surge heals per second, 4-5k vigor heals PER SEC is TOO OP.... can only imagine what every other class can do with it when they stack their bonuses.... 6-7k vigor heals?? Some templar was pulling 20k BoL heals....in pvp... wtf. Stamplars/stamdks can easily pull 8k+ vigor heals.... its dumb."

@PainfulFAFA , would you help the community by taking screenshots of 4k surge heals per second on your stam sorc ? Perhaps its your stam sorc's surge heals that needs a nerf and not the Malubeth set (haha kidding).
On the other thread discussing this, the potentially excessive heals from Vigor + Malubeth was raised as well and have yet to determine if the theoretical numbers are achievable.

I am a maxed out Magicka Templar and have tried to get 20k BoL heals during Malubeth proc as you stated, but am currently unable to get anywhere close to that. Similarly, some Templars tried as well but could not get close to 20K. We could be doing something wrong.

[/quote]

Refer to post #56 for "valid numbers" if you want to call it that.
And testing broken stuff like this in duels it not the most reliable way to do so.... because its DUELs. I can completely negate your rock with my paper and changing CPs around.

My opinion about malubeth is coming from my stam sorc experience with it. I should not be able to take down 1 templar, and 3 nightblades by myself face tanking them and rolling around and still survive in this insane damage meta, but apprarantly i can do that with malubeth... on a stam sorc. I should not be able to play ring around the tree while 10 blues are chasing me for 10 mins. but apparently i can do that with malubeth. When this set procs, your HP is immediatly up to full.
The problem isnt that people can make healing builds at the cost of damage or watever... the problem is that the 2nd bonus is stackable when it should be giving a Major/Minor bonus. A templar with this set isnt going to die, you will need a zerg.
[/quote]

I beg to differ, the reason we tried it in duels is to find truth in claims by some who called for nerf, who stated on forum threads that anyone wearing this set is near unkillable. That turned out to be an exaggeration as it was proven during duels that you can 1v1 and consistently kill players (Templars and DKs too) using this set. And the participants did not change CP's around, to be neutral, everything was left as how each individual would run in an open world setting.

I am a magicka Templar, gold gear on most pieces, definitely not immortal 1v1 with Malubeth proccing. I find your statement difficult to accept when you say it takes a whole zerg to kill a single Templar wearing Malubeth.

Your experience as a stam sorc is valuable input to this thread, especially when you state you can heal 4K+ surge heals per second. I cannot verify nor deny your claim, others who play stam sorc will have to confirm this.

Your claim that you were pulling circles around TEN DC players for a whole 10 minutes is testament to your skill in PVP. Furthermore, FACE tanking 1 Templar and 3 NBs at the same time and killing them all by yourself is most likely attributed to your OP skill and not any kind of equipment or armor set. You are the only player capable of doing these things as far as I am aware.

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Opinions tend to be subjective without supporting data? I suppose everyones opnion in this thread is subjective because so far... NOBODY has given concrete analysis as top why this set is not overperforming. All i see is "streamers this and streamers that", "its worked like this before" (lmfao at these people) and the closest person to bring worthwhile argument was Joy but even his argument isnt has strong (hes arguing what i mentioned about the battle spirit changes to Malubeth and its 1st bonues and then posts an image.... an image showing a weak 1st bonus damage proc, but the heal he got from that proc is 1k and his non-crit BoL healed him for 8k...lol)

I would suggest you review this thread and the other one where you have posted numerous times: "Malubeth in pvp", although still limited, some players have started to provide screenshots on healing generated, etc. ... I believe more will come over time, as the community reads both threads and gain awareness of the issue. Yourself stating that NOBODY has given concrete analysis could well be because this issue needs time to analyze.

Decisions must be based on reliable facts and data before being taken. I understand your frustration as you believe strongly in your opinions but IMHO it would be wise for the community and developers to not be hasty to cast judgement. We need to be sure the set by itself is over performing (or not), while also considering other game mechanics that work together with said set that resulted in the high numbers you have shared with us.

PainfulFAFA · June 2016

incognito222 wrote: »

"Im getting 4k surge heals PER SECOND, and stam sorcs dont even have access to any healing bonuses outside of CPs.
But my point is clear... 4k-4.5k surge heals per second, 4-5k vigor heals PER SEC is TOO OP.... can only imagine what every other class can do with it when they stack their bonuses.... 6-7k vigor heals?? Some templar was pulling 20k BoL heals....in pvp... wtf. Stamplars/stamdks can easily pull 8k+ vigor heals.... its dumb."

@PainfulFAFA , would you help the community by taking screenshots of 4k surge heals per second on your stam sorc ? Perhaps its your stam sorc's surge heals that needs a nerf and not the Malubeth set (haha kidding).
On the other thread discussing this, the potentially excessive heals from Vigor + Malubeth was raised as well and have yet to determine if the theoretical numbers are achievable.

I am a maxed out Magicka Templar and have tried to get 20k BoL heals during Malubeth proc as you stated, but am currently unable to get anywhere close to that. Similarly, some Templars tried as well but could not get close to 20K. We could be doing something wrong.

Refer to post #56 for "valid numbers" if you want to call it that.
And testing broken stuff like this in duels it not the most reliable way to do so.... because its DUELs. I can completely negate your rock with my paper and changing CPs around.

My opinion about malubeth is coming from my stam sorc experience with it. I should not be able to take down 1 templar, and 3 nightblades by myself face tanking them and rolling around and still survive in this insane damage meta, but apprarantly i can do that with malubeth... on a stam sorc. I should not be able to play ring around the tree while 10 blues are chasing me for 10 mins. but apparently i can do that with malubeth. When this set procs, your HP is immediatly up to full.
The problem isnt that people can make healing builds at the cost of damage or watever... the problem is that the 2nd bonus is stackable when it should be giving a Major/Minor bonus. A templar with this set isnt going to die, you will need a zerg.

I beg to differ, the reason we tried it in duels is to find truth in claims by some who called for nerf, who stated on forum threads that anyone wearing this set is near unkillable. That turned out to be an exaggeration as it was proven during duels that you can 1v1 and consistently kill players (Templars and DKs too) using this set. And the participants did not change CP's around, to be neutral, everything was left as how each individual would run in an open world setting.

I am a magicka Templar, gold gear on most pieces, definitely not immortal 1v1 with Malubeth proccing. I find your statement difficult to accept when you say it takes a whole zerg to kill a single Templar wearing Malubeth.

Your experience as a stam sorc is valuable input to this thread, especially when you state you can heal 4K+ surge heals per second. I cannot verify nor deny your claim, others who play stam sorc will have to confirm this.

Your claim that you were pulling circles around TEN DC players for a whole 10 minutes is testament to your skill in PVP. Furthermore, FACE tanking 1 Templar and 3 NBs at the same time and killing them all by yourself is most likely attributed to your OP skill and not any kind of equipment or armor set. You are the only player capable of doing these things as far as I am aware.

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Opinions tend to be subjective without supporting data? I suppose everyones opnion in this thread is subjective because so far... NOBODY has given concrete analysis as top why this set is not overperforming. All i see is "streamers this and streamers that", "its worked like this before" (lmfao at these people) and the closest person to bring worthwhile argument was Joy but even his argument isnt has strong (hes arguing what i mentioned about the battle spirit changes to Malubeth and its 1st bonues and then posts an image.... an image showing a weak 1st bonus damage proc, but the heal he got from that proc is 1k and his non-crit BoL healed him for 8k...lol)

I would suggest you review this thread and the other one where you have posted numerous times: "Malubeth in pvp", although still limited, some players have started to provide screenshots on healing generated, etc. ... I believe more will come over time, as the community reads both threads and gain awareness of the issue. Yourself stating that NOBODY has given concrete analysis could well be because this issue needs time to analyze.

Decisions must be based on reliable facts and data before being taken. I understand your frustration as you believe strongly in your opinions but IMHO it would be wise for the community and developers to not be hasty to cast judgement. We need to be sure the set by itself is over performing (or not), while also considering other game mechanics that work together with said set that resulted in the high numbers you have shared with us.

Do you mean this thread? https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269618/malubeth-set-in-pvp/p1
I strongly suggest YOU reread that thread....the only person providing screenshots and data on healing generated is @Synozeer.... who is arguing that Malubeth is bugged/something is off. Everyone else in that thread have no idea what theyre talking about.

Decisions must be based on reliable data? I agree... except nobody who thinks this set is OK is providing facts/data. They simply dont know lol. Other people like myself and @Synozeer have have actually tried to show something is off with this set and people still refuse to accept let alone provide their own constructive arguments.

Major mending (30% heal done)
Minor Mending (8% heal done)
Major Vitality (30% healing recieved)
Minor Vitality (8% heling recieved)
Quick Recovery (Bonus Heal received)
Blessed (bonus healing done)
And then you got malubeth... another 30% healing received stacking with all those buffs.

Heres a list of all classes and abilities that give them those bonuses btw...
http://i.imgur.com/NvOxZk9.png

Now add Bats, Invigorating Drain,DK Embers, Sweeps, Surge, Werewolve, Strife, bloodthirst, draining shot, any other ability that heals based on damage done and youll will see how blatantly OP this set is.
It was fine before (because battlespirit was applying twice) and now that it isnt, its essentially bypassing battlespirit and thats a problem. That 2nd bonus needs to be changed to Major Vitality to avoid the stacking.

Im kinda done arguing this until somebody provides a reasonable argument for
1. the 2nd bonus is stacking with other buffs
2. the changes of how battlespirit affected it
3. universal counters other than the ones i mentioned (Reberb Bash, Fasallas, Range build, Get away from beam... lmfao gl wit that)
Until then, i suppose i'll just wear it and continue to facetank and smash groups of 5-10 at a time...until players have had enough and they hop on the wagon lol

Wollust · June 2016

My stamplar's vigor crit heals for up to 5.8k while malubeth is up. My DK's vigor would be even higher.
Seems like a legit and balanced hot.

snejremllov · June 2016

Wollust wrote: »

My stamplar's vigor crit heals for up to 5.8k while malubeth is up. My DK's vigor would be even higher.
Seems like a legit and balanced hot.

Nerf sorcs instead, amirite?

Dyride · June 2016

Wollust · June 2016

snejremllov wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

My stamplar's vigor crit heals for up to 5.8k while malubeth is up. My DK's vigor would be even higher.
Seems like a legit and balanced hot.

Nerf sorcs instead, amirite?

Yes, this is now a "nerf sorc" thread

Dyride · June 2016

I think the Malubeth 2 pc set will have to change to Major Vitality buff while the beam is active to prevent triple stacking heal buffs.

In addition, I think high numbers is coming from the heal double dipping with criticals and CP.

Thaumaturge and Elfborn effect the size of the damage and heal so in effect the set is double dipping in CP. I actually forgot to check if Elemental Expert effects as well.

Outside of those things mentioned, I don't think the set is fundamentally flawed.

Knowing to make distance to break the beam is basic L2P.

Once again, I'll tag @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and @wrobel...

Yolokin_Swagonborn · June 2016

Dyride wrote: »

I think the Malubeth 2 pc set will have to change to Major Vitality buff while the beam is active to prevent triple stacking heal buffs.

In addition, I think high numbers is coming from the heal double dipping with criticals and CP.

Thaumaturge and Elfborn effect the size of the damage and heal so in effect the set is double dipping in CP. I actually forgot to check if Elemental Expert effects as well.

Outside of those things mentioned, I don't think the set is fundamentally flawed.

Knowing to make distance to break the beam is basic L2P.

Once again, I'll tag @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and @wrobel...

Or maybe we can actually allow powerful set pieces in this game? Before the vendor, some monster sets were actually tough to get but worth the reward, if we keep nerfing the most powerful gear in the game, then all the sets will become bland and a lot less rewarding.

What we really need to do is nerf CP. I still don't understand why people are calling Malubeth OP, Morag Tong OP, but they are OK with the champion system giving you free 25% boost in anything with NO trade-offs, no farming gear, no light/med/heavy gear choice. Just click and win.

If you don't see by now that the CP system is ruining gear and skills with nerfs you are blind.

Sophieous · June 2016

I can't class this set as OP or not. I can tell you that ever since I started wearing it (Mag Templar/Healer), it made a huge difference in my survivability in pvp. I have seen my self tanking 10-15 people and getting out alive. It could be nice for pve too, but i feel like something like engine guardian that boosts your resources is better for my build anyway.

incognito222 · June 2016

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Do you mean this thread? https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269618/malubeth-set-in-pvp/p1
I strongly suggest YOU reread that thread....the only person providing screenshots and data on healing generated is @Synozeer.... who is arguing that Malubeth is bugged/something is off. Everyone else in that thread have no idea what theyre talking about.

Decisions must be based on reliable data? I agree... except nobody who thinks this set is OK is providing facts/data. They simply dont know lol. Other people like myself and @Synozeer have have actually tried to show something is off with this set and people still refuse to accept let alone provide their own constructive arguments.

Until then, i suppose i'll just wear it and continue to facetank and smash groups of 5-10 at a time...until players have had enough and they hop on the wagon lol

Many players are trying to give back to the community through discussion and raising awareness of potential issues. It is natural for pros and cons to arise due to differing points of view. Some players know more than others, some are wanting to learn more from others, hence the exchange of information on these forums.

You saying that everyone else but you and another forum contributor know everything there is to know about this set and everyone else has no idea, is a bit harsh don't you think? We are all here trying to establish why this set is a cause of concern for some, therefore exchange of opinion in a constructive and polite manner is a nice way to do that.

I for one, am learning from many who have posted, @Ahzek , @Dyride , @Wollust , @Yolokin_Swagonborn , @maxjapank , @Vangy , @KenaPKK , @Armitas , @olsborg , @CP5 , @r.jan_emailb16_ESO (who has also provided some test results and numbers), @Synozeer , @Waffennacht , @Ch4mpTW , @Dracane , @DuckNoodles , @Asmael, @Jaronking , @ThatNeonZebraAgain , @Roehamad_Ali , @willymchilybily , @Lieblingsjunge , @Joy_Division , @Ishammael @Master_Kas , @DHale , @ZoM_Head , @Cinbri and others who I did not mention individually, are trying to contribute to the community through these posts.

I hope you noticed correctly that most of us are careful about pushing for a nerf hammer not because we all like to wear this set, but because we are neutral and need more time to gather facts to be better informed before reaching a final conclusion. As I mentioned before, this applies to every possible imbalance that we as a community identify and discuss, not only the undaunted set in focus.

I would like to ask the community regarding how changing the set (if it is changed at all in future) would affect the PVE community as well, since this is a game for everybody and not the PVP community alone. I understand this broadens the topic a bit, but I feel the PVE community is entitled to their opinion as any changes will affect them too.

So @PainfulFAFA , keep the constructive criticism coming and while you're at it, you can perhaps share how you're face tanking AND smashing groups of 10 competent players consistently in PVP all by yourself, that must be quite a sight to behold!

Peace and happiness to all.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2016

ZoM_Head wrote: »

DK passive increase healing recieved by 12% with a draconic ability active

DK Skill morph coagulating blood increase healing recieved by 8%

Heavy armoru passive increase healing recieved by 8%

Malubeth Proc while teathered increase healingr ecieved by 30%

12% + 8% + 8% = 28% for DK tanks + 30% for Malubet thats 58% more healing from all sources before factoring in champion points or even adding any crafted/drop set (besides malubeth).

With the joke of heals for a magicka DK in pvp since IC, malubeth is one very sound and great option if you ask me.

from our great lord Asayre-

The base healing formula for a healer using a variety of sources of Healing Done and Healing Taken and Healing Received is

The Tooltip value is increased by Restoration Master, Soul Siphoner, Major Mending and the Ritual Mundus. These add additively. Healing Done was tested with Blessed. Healing Taken was tested with Tormentor and Leeching sets. Healing Received was tested to be additive with Quick Recovery [Champion Point], Rapid Mending [Heavy Armour Passive], Minor Vitality [Swallow Soul & Coagulating Blood], Burning Heart [Draconic Power Passive] and Quick to Mend [Argonian Passive].

Example

A V16 Argonian cast Healing Springs. This character has 12% Healing Taken from the Tormentor and Leeching Sets and has 100 points in Blessed (25% Healing Done) and 100 points in Quick Recovery (16% Healing Received). In addition, this character is wearing 7 Heavy armour pieces (7% Healing Received), has the Minor Vitality buff, has a Draconic Power ability active and has 3 points in the Quick to Mend passive. This tooltip value includes the bonuses from Restoration Master, Major Mending and the Ritual Mundus.

The recorded in-game healing is 3264.

so you are right.

ZoM_Head · June 2016

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

DK passive increase healing recieved by 12% with a draconic ability active

DK Skill morph coagulating blood increase healing recieved by 8%

Heavy armoru passive increase healing recieved by 8%

Malubeth Proc while teathered increase healingr ecieved by 30%

12% + 8% + 8% = 28% for DK tanks + 30% for Malubet thats 58% more healing from all sources before factoring in champion points or even adding any crafted/drop set (besides malubeth).

With the joke of heals for a magicka DK in pvp since IC, malubeth is one very sound and great option if you ask me.

from our great lord Asayre-

The base healing formula for a healer using a variety of sources of Healing Done and Healing Taken and Healing Received is

The Tooltip value is increased by Restoration Master, Soul Siphoner, Major Mending and the Ritual Mundus. These add additively. Healing Done was tested with Blessed. Healing Taken was tested with Tormentor and Leeching sets. Healing Received was tested to be additive with Quick Recovery [Champion Point], Rapid Mending [Heavy Armour Passive], Minor Vitality [Swallow Soul & Coagulating Blood], Burning Heart [Draconic Power Passive] and Quick to Mend [Argonian Passive].

Example

A V16 Argonian cast Healing Springs. This character has 12% Healing Taken from the Tormentor and Leeching Sets and has 100 points in Blessed (25% Healing Done) and 100 points in Quick Recovery (16% Healing Received). In addition, this character is wearing 7 Heavy armour pieces (7% Healing Received), has the Minor Vitality buff, has a Draconic Power ability active and has 3 points in the Quick to Mend passive. This tooltip value includes the bonuses from Restoration Master, Major Mending and the Ritual Mundus.

The recorded in-game healing is 3264.

so you are right.

My point was not really the math behind it, but rather the lack of healing the mDK has in pvp.

I mentioned before, that Zeni could change Dragon's Blood to be similar like Vigor, where one more gives you a certain percentage of stamina back and over time and coagulating blood is like resolving vigor + more healing taken (since Green Dragon Blood is useless w/pots).

Bashev · June 2016

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom when this bug will be fixed? Currently when Malubeth set procs, all your heals bypass the battle spirit healing reduction.

Bashev · June 2016

What I noticed lately is that people stopped complaining for Malubeth set anymore. They are even defending it. It looks like now everybody uses it and nobody wants it nerfed. If this is the case ZoS, can you just remove the healing debuff from the battle spirit and all of us will be happy. Of course Templars will be immortal but who cares. They are even now the most OP class in Cyrodiil.

Duiwel · June 2016

I am glad so many of you are experts in balance...

How about instead of nerfing everything current, why not buff dps sets?

Ever think about that

Arthg · June 2016

I have got the set in gold, with the head in impen heavy.
I love it.
One of my best monster pieces.

But I've got high fighting standards.
Anything remotely broken, OP, FotM, meta, cheese, I stay away.

From my humble experience, but with no maths involved...
This set is *super-OP*.
I'm a heavy-armor stam DK *Orc*.
Try and kill me when it procs.
Seriously.
And I suck at PvP.

That everybody's wearing it these days - it *has* to be broken or OP.

Off to don my Engine Guardian.

Vangy · June 2016

Yup anything that lets you survive for longer than 30 seconds MUST BE NERFED. This is wubbles insta-gib meta.

Bashev · June 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Yup anything that lets you survive for longer than 30 seconds MUST BE NERFED. This is wubbles insta-gib meta.

Dont get me wrong. I play tank and I think DPS is OP. The issue is, that the normal players who do not know how this set work dont use it. Then we have pro PvP player who use this mechanic and make fun with them. If this is the case and ZoS want this healing, they just should remove the healing penalty.

Arthg · June 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Yup anything that lets you survive for longer than 30 seconds MUST BE NERFED. This is wubbles insta-gib meta.

No need to get all sarcastic about it, odds are ZOS won't lend an ear anyway.

I actually like long fights. My build is an anti-burst, anti-gank build, and I aim at outsustaining my opponent(s).
The point is not to nerf anything that makes it possible to survive 30 seconds.
I'm a born tank.
I build to survive for that long.

But this here piece enables *anyone* to survive, from bathrobe wearers to shoe-smelling rogues, shield- and shuffle- stackers alike.
And *everyone* is wearing it.

So something ain't right, is all.

Vangy · June 2016

Arthg wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Yup anything that lets you survive for longer than 30 seconds MUST BE NERFED. This is wubbles insta-gib meta.

No need to get all sarcastic about it, odds are ZOS won't lend an ear anyway.

I actually like long fights. My build is an anti-burst, anti-gank build, and I aim at outsustaining my opponent(s).
The point is not to nerf anything that makes it possible to survive 30 seconds.
I'm a born tank.
I build to survive for that long.

But this here piece enables *anyone* to survive, from bathrobe wearers to shoe-smelling rogues, shield- and shuffle- stackers alike.
And *everyone* is wearing it.

So something ain't right, is all.

That isnt quite true. Healing only works when u can survive.. If your a bathrobe wearer in non-pvp gear, your dead to 1 snipebush. You need to be able to kite, LOS etc etc while your heals tick. Or if your a templar jab jab. Sure the numbers look a little inflated sometimes but still no conclusive proof as to whether the set is broken or not. I could give you 1000000% healing and your still gona be dead to one combo wombo. This set only works on my DK tank. Pretty much all of my other toons are running valkyns, kena or engin. I still cant quite figure out whats wrong with this set. ZOS needs to come clean and actually tell us the mechanics of how this set actually works and whats intended. If not, its just all speculation cos LUA or CA just lumps all healing together and displays it as scourge harvester.

Arthg · June 2016

As I have no maths and no tests to back me up, and as I've already given my impressionistic comments on the subject, this is my last message here.

Vangy wrote: »

Arthg wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Yup anything that lets you survive for longer than 30 seconds MUST BE NERFED. This is wubbles insta-gib meta.

No need to get all sarcastic about it, odds are ZOS won't lend an ear anyway.

I actually like long fights. My build is an anti-burst, anti-gank build, and I aim at outsustaining my opponent(s).
The point is not to nerf anything that makes it possible to survive 30 seconds.
I'm a born tank.
I build to survive for that long.

But this here piece enables *anyone* to survive, from bathrobe wearers to shoe-smelling rogues, shield- and shuffle- stackers alike.
And *everyone* is wearing it.

So something ain't right, is all.

That isnt quite true. Healing only works when u can survive.. If your a bathrobe wearer in non-pvp gear, your dead to 1 snipebush. You need to be able to kite, LOS etc etc while your heals tick. Or if your a templar jab jab. Sure the numbers look a little inflated sometimes but still no conclusive proof as to whether the set is broken or not. I could give you 1000000% healing and your still gona be dead to one combo wombo.

Thanks for the polite understatement, 'that isn't quite true'. Are you English?
I was, hum, exaggerating for the sake of argument.
You are 100% right, of course

Vangy wrote: »

This set only works on my DK tank. Pretty much all of my other toons are running valkyns, kena or engin. I still cant quite figure out whats wrong with this set. ZOS needs to come clean and actually tell us the mechanics of how this set actually works and whats intended. If not, its just all speculation cos LUA or CA just lumps all healing together and displays it as scourge harvester.

Well, so you do admit something's wrong, right?
For what it's worth (and I'm not a duellist myself, I love RvR too much), I can't help thinking that the fact the set is prohibited from all duelling tournaments is quite telling.

My (last) two Orcish ¢

Vangy · June 2016

Arthg wrote: »

As I have no maths and no tests to back me up, and as I've already given my impressionistic comments on the subject, this is my last message here.

Vangy wrote: »

Arthg wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Yup anything that lets you survive for longer than 30 seconds MUST BE NERFED. This is wubbles insta-gib meta.

No need to get all sarcastic about it, odds are ZOS won't lend an ear anyway.

I actually like long fights. My build is an anti-burst, anti-gank build, and I aim at outsustaining my opponent(s).
The point is not to nerf anything that makes it possible to survive 30 seconds.
I'm a born tank.
I build to survive for that long.

But this here piece enables *anyone* to survive, from bathrobe wearers to shoe-smelling rogues, shield- and shuffle- stackers alike.
And *everyone* is wearing it.

So something ain't right, is all.

That isnt quite true. Healing only works when u can survive.. If your a bathrobe wearer in non-pvp gear, your dead to 1 snipebush. You need to be able to kite, LOS etc etc while your heals tick. Or if your a templar jab jab. Sure the numbers look a little inflated sometimes but still no conclusive proof as to whether the set is broken or not. I could give you 1000000% healing and your still gona be dead to one combo wombo.

Thanks for the polite understatement, 'that isn't quite true'. Are you English?
I was, hum, exaggerating for the sake of argument.
You are 100% right, of course

Vangy wrote: »

This set only works on my DK tank. Pretty much all of my other toons are running valkyns, kena or engin. I still cant quite figure out whats wrong with this set. ZOS needs to come clean and actually tell us the mechanics of how this set actually works and whats intended. If not, its just all speculation cos LUA or CA just lumps all healing together and displays it as scourge harvester.

Well, so you do admit something's wrong, right?
For what it's worth (and I'm not a duellist myself, I love RvR too much), I can't help thinking that the fact the set is prohibited from all duelling tournaments is quite telling.

My (last) two Orcish ¢

1. Uhm. No im not English.. but I do speak pretty good English... Or at least I'd like to think so

2. No I dont know if anything is wrong but many people are crying about mal set so it does make me wonder.
3. I just think its banned from duelling tourneys cos the set has a tendency to make a 1v1 result in a stale mate. As long as you can survive the other guys burst, the healing will keep you alive. This dosent hold up in a typical cyro open world PvP build tho. All you need is 2 or 3 good players who know what thyre doing, hitting you and you'd be dead regardless of mal.