notimetocare wrote: »Hope they fix this bug, I like my vamp looking vamp. And vamp should always look that way, no adding a skin tohide it
MornaBaine wrote: »Hey folks, let's not derail this any further. It's a rare day when a bug comes along people LIKE but the fact that so many of us do highlights that ZOS is missing an opportunity here. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom if you were to sell a "mortal appearance" skin in the crown shop, as well as alternate vampire skins, some like the Skyrim vamp appearance, some other creative ones to maybe mimic some of the other lore-based bloodlines, you'd make a killing. My personal favorite "dream skin" would be one that is as pale as Stage one WITHOUT the reddish veins showing and that did NOT alter my character's eyecolor or wash out her makeup.
notimetocare wrote: »I doubt they would make a killing. Especially on 'specific blooodlines'. People might but the mortal skin, but many vamp versions is a waste of resources. I just hope they fix the bug, even if it's low priority. I like my vamp and hate that it's gone when I use a costume since i almost always use them.
MornaBaine wrote: »Hey folks, let's not derail this any further. It's a rare day when a bug comes along people LIKE but the fact that so many of us do highlights that ZOS is missing an opportunity here. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom if you were to sell a "mortal appearance" skin in the crown shop, as well as alternate vampire skins, some like the Skyrim vamp appearance, some other creative ones to maybe mimic some of the other lore-based bloodlines, you'd make a killing. My personal favorite "dream skin" would be one that is as pale as Stage one WITHOUT the reddish veins showing and that did NOT alter my character's eyecolor or wash out her makeup.
notimetocare wrote: »I doubt they would make a killing. Especially on 'specific blooodlines'. People might but the mortal skin, but many vamp versions is a waste of resources. I just hope they fix the bug, even if it's low priority. I like my vamp and hate that it's gone when I use a costume since i almost always use them.
MornaBaine wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »I doubt they would make a killing. Especially on 'specific blooodlines'. People might but the mortal skin, but many vamp versions is a waste of resources. I just hope they fix the bug, even if it's low priority. I like my vamp and hate that it's gone when I use a costume since i almost always use them.
It doesn't happen with costumes. I've tested it. If it does for you please share a screenshot of it. It only happens with the disguises you find as part of quests. Are you REALLY wearing those instead of showing your armor or wearing costumes from the crown store?
starkerealm wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »Hope they fix this bug, I like my vamp looking vamp. And vamp should always look that way, no adding a skin tohide it
Until DB, there was a point to this perspective. Vampires were always more vulnerable to fire, so there was a real reason you needed to let other players in PvP notice your character was one. Now? Not so much. I mean increased vulnerability to Fighter's Guild abilities, but even that's been toned down.
Also, now, if your character is a vampire, it's completely hidden by skins, which didn't used to be the case, before DB's release.
MornaBaine wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »Hope they fix this bug, I like my vamp looking vamp. And vamp should always look that way, no adding a skin tohide it
Until DB, there was a point to this perspective. Vampires were always more vulnerable to fire, so there was a real reason you needed to let other players in PvP notice your character was one. Now? Not so much. I mean increased vulnerability to Fighter's Guild abilities, but even that's been toned down.
Also, now, if your character is a vampire, it's completely hidden by skins, which didn't used to be the case, before DB's release.
But you have ALWAYS been able to completely conceal the vampire appearance with armor. And if you play on a computer there have always been add-ons that will show you if another player is a vampire or a werewolf. The visual cue of vampirism has never really been an important part of the PvP mechanics. It's always been easy to hide in PvP and it's always been easy to discover vampires with skill line abilities or add-ons. The appearance of the stages has always been strictly a cosmetics and aesthetics issue.
starkerealm wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »Hope they fix this bug, I like my vamp looking vamp. And vamp should always look that way, no adding a skin tohide it
Until DB, there was a point to this perspective. Vampires were always more vulnerable to fire, so there was a real reason you needed to let other players in PvP notice your character was one. Now? Not so much. I mean increased vulnerability to Fighter's Guild abilities, but even that's been toned down.
Also, now, if your character is a vampire, it's completely hidden by skins, which didn't used to be the case, before DB's release.
But you have ALWAYS been able to completely conceal the vampire appearance with armor. And if you play on a computer there have always been add-ons that will show you if another player is a vampire or a werewolf. The visual cue of vampirism has never really been an important part of the PvP mechanics. It's always been easy to hide in PvP and it's always been easy to discover vampires with skill line abilities or add-ons. The appearance of the stages has always been strictly a cosmetics and aesthetics issue.
In practice, sure. I mean, the appearance stage was always a cosmetic modification. Used to be there was also a permanent fire vulnerability with vampirism. With that scaling based on your stage, it's now possible to set your vampire into a functionally mortal state, which wasn't possible before.
Now, in Stage 1, the visual change is strictly cosmetic, but I'm sure you still remember people crying about how vampires couldn't turn off their debuffs while werewolves could. Forgetting, of course, that there was a time when werewolves were also permanently debuffed to poison in human form as well.
MornaBaine wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »Hope they fix this bug, I like my vamp looking vamp. And vamp should always look that way, no adding a skin tohide it
Until DB, there was a point to this perspective. Vampires were always more vulnerable to fire, so there was a real reason you needed to let other players in PvP notice your character was one. Now? Not so much. I mean increased vulnerability to Fighter's Guild abilities, but even that's been toned down.
Also, now, if your character is a vampire, it's completely hidden by skins, which didn't used to be the case, before DB's release.
But you have ALWAYS been able to completely conceal the vampire appearance with armor. And if you play on a computer there have always been add-ons that will show you if another player is a vampire or a werewolf. The visual cue of vampirism has never really been an important part of the PvP mechanics. It's always been easy to hide in PvP and it's always been easy to discover vampires with skill line abilities or add-ons. The appearance of the stages has always been strictly a cosmetics and aesthetics issue.
In practice, sure. I mean, the appearance stage was always a cosmetic modification. Used to be there was also a permanent fire vulnerability with vampirism. With that scaling based on your stage, it's now possible to set your vampire into a functionally mortal state, which wasn't possible before.
Now, in Stage 1, the visual change is strictly cosmetic, but I'm sure you still remember people crying about how vampires couldn't turn off their debuffs while werewolves could. Forgetting, of course, that there was a time when werewolves were also permanently debuffed to poison in human form as well.
I'm not entirely certain of your point here. However, I will say that I've always felt the vulnerabilities of vampires and werewolves should be ever present. And while I know it's a "TES thing" that vampires get weirdly stronger the longer they starve themselves and yet somehow become MORE vulnerable to fire, this has NEVER made any sense to me. A starving vampire should be in danger of leaving the player's control and just feeding on anyone nearby. THAT should be part of the Stage 4 mechanism! LOL Or perhaps there should be a timer on Stage 4 as well where, once you pass it, your vampire just literally dies. Upon resurrection you'd have 10 minutes to feed before it happens again.
starkerealm wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »Hope they fix this bug, I like my vamp looking vamp. And vamp should always look that way, no adding a skin tohide it
Until DB, there was a point to this perspective. Vampires were always more vulnerable to fire, so there was a real reason you needed to let other players in PvP notice your character was one. Now? Not so much. I mean increased vulnerability to Fighter's Guild abilities, but even that's been toned down.
Also, now, if your character is a vampire, it's completely hidden by skins, which didn't used to be the case, before DB's release.
But you have ALWAYS been able to completely conceal the vampire appearance with armor. And if you play on a computer there have always been add-ons that will show you if another player is a vampire or a werewolf. The visual cue of vampirism has never really been an important part of the PvP mechanics. It's always been easy to hide in PvP and it's always been easy to discover vampires with skill line abilities or add-ons. The appearance of the stages has always been strictly a cosmetics and aesthetics issue.
In practice, sure. I mean, the appearance stage was always a cosmetic modification. Used to be there was also a permanent fire vulnerability with vampirism. With that scaling based on your stage, it's now possible to set your vampire into a functionally mortal state, which wasn't possible before.
Now, in Stage 1, the visual change is strictly cosmetic, but I'm sure you still remember people crying about how vampires couldn't turn off their debuffs while werewolves could. Forgetting, of course, that there was a time when werewolves were also permanently debuffed to poison in human form as well.
I'm not entirely certain of your point here. However, I will say that I've always felt the vulnerabilities of vampires and werewolves should be ever present. And while I know it's a "TES thing" that vampires get weirdly stronger the longer they starve themselves and yet somehow become MORE vulnerable to fire, this has NEVER made any sense to me. A starving vampire should be in danger of leaving the player's control and just feeding on anyone nearby. THAT should be part of the Stage 4 mechanism! LOL Or perhaps there should be a timer on Stage 4 as well where, once you pass it, your vampire just literally dies. Upon resurrection you'd have 10 minutes to feed before it happens again.
I'm saying Stage 1 has never been more meaningless than it is now.
starkerealm wrote: »
The rest is how Vampires have worked in The Elder Scrolls games for the last 12 years. Prior to Oblivion, Vamprisim was a flat set of modifiers that attached to your character. Oblivion introduced stages.
Unless it was a thing in Daggerfall, Vampires have never needed to feed in TES. They're sustained through... something... probably a connection to Cold Harbour, but I'm guessing. That keeps them up and moving while still being dead. Feeding is about bringing themselves closer to mortal, so that they can hunt without being detected. We've even seen vampires in game who've gone without feeding for thousands of years without ill effect.
When vampires starve themselves, they grow stronger, loose some of their ability to blend into mortal society, gain access to new powers (including invisibility, and the ability to charm and dominate others), but become more vulnerable to the sun, and fire.
Exactly what the metaphysics behind this system are has (to the best of my knowledge) never been explained. But, Nirn's vampires operate on their own set of rules. Vampires that go without feeding for decades aren't particularly uncommon (even in the game's PvP population. )
The tricky thing with bloodlines is, they exist basically to explain the differences in vampires between games. There's two tiers of vampire differentiation in Elder Scrolls. There's Bloodlines, and Clans. Bloodlines are entirely distinct varieties of vampires. Lamae's vampires are immune to the sun, and may actually be tied to Hircine for whatever reason. The Cyrodiilic Bloodline (which gets called a Clan) are capable of passing themselves off as human. The Volkihar bloodline is supposed to be able to pass freely through frozen ice (though you don't get that ability in Skyrim, sadly). One of the Valenwood bloodlines are supposed to be the only ones with access to Mistform. There's a huge list like this. Clans are different groups of the same bloodline, with slightly different powers. There were a couple dozen in Daggerfall, and three in Morrowind, but they've since been dropped. Elder Scrolls vampire lore is the product of about 20 years of people with slightly different ideas coming to the game and taking different approaches to it. And, some of these approaches are, deliberately, weird. As in, that was the goal.
The reverse power flow seems to be about the vampire locking down some infernal (probably daedric) power source to make themselves appear more mortal than they really are, to help avoid hunters or whatever. In theory, there's no reason a vampire shouldn't be able to switch to higher stages at will, but the games have never supported that, and there might be an actual in-universe reason for this.
MornaBaine wrote: »I think more than anything I just get frustrated how contradictory the game mechanics are when compared to the lore and how very limited they are. Lamae Bal herself tells you that your fellow vampires live among humans and "may be wearing rags or crowns" which is a clear allusion to the fact that the Noxiphilic Sanguivoria vampires of this game SHOULD be able to look mortal somehow. Verandis Ravenwatch does so. So does Heloise and she became a vampire by merely being scratched by a bloodfiend, she is no potential special snowflake like Verandis. And even though the vampire appearance has ZERO gameplay effect (which is actually really disappointing) you've got people with the crazy idea in their heads that somehow it matters. It doesn't.
starkerealm wrote: »Or, put another way, the player vampires and Verandis are entirely different kinds of monsters that operate under different rules. You can lump them together as vampires, but that's an overarching label, much like you can lump both in with the draugr and say, "well, they're all undead."
MornaBaine wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Or, put another way, the player vampires and Verandis are entirely different kinds of monsters that operate under different rules. You can lump them together as vampires, but that's an overarching label, much like you can lump both in with the draugr and say, "well, they're all undead."
BUT Verandis ISN'T the only vampire that can appear mortal in the game. AND Lamae Bal pretty clearly indicates that her own "children" can blend among the mortal population.... even going to far as to say some of them may be kings. All of that taken together is what leads me to believe that the Noxiphilic Sanguivoria vamps SHOULD have a mortal guise.
SirCritical wrote: »Normally, I really like my bosmer female's normal appearance. But I gladly accept the visual changes as a sacrifice for the advantages, which represent the undead status of my character.
Instead the toggle, but to make these refusive vamps (;)) satisfied, make stage 1 vampires pale skinned, stage 2 vamps sick-looking (as they're on the way to become perfect ), stage 3 undeads looking undead. But at the end, when they reach stage 4, let them look like a butterfly which was born out of the "larva status" they had to live as before. So give stage 4 vamps an unique, but not ugly, instead a polished, beautifully looking skin
starkerealm wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Or, put another way, the player vampires and Verandis are entirely different kinds of monsters that operate under different rules. You can lump them together as vampires, but that's an overarching label, much like you can lump both in with the draugr and say, "well, they're all undead."
BUT Verandis ISN'T the only vampire that can appear mortal in the game. AND Lamae Bal pretty clearly indicates that her own "children" can blend among the mortal population.... even going to far as to say some of them may be kings. All of that taken together is what leads me to believe that the Noxiphilic Sanguivoria vamps SHOULD have a mortal guise.
To be fair, I'm honestly not sure what's going on there. I mean, you're right, and I still think that we should have some means of suppressing the vampiric appearance. Though her comment might be a simple explanation for why almost no one seems to realize we're a vampire and freak out. I know that's an unsatisfying answer, though.
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Thanks @bhlegit! We're tracking this bug with another costume, so we'll add this costume to the list. (Also, the request to toggle the vampire skin visual effect is noted. )
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Thanks @bhlegit! We're tracking this bug with another costume, so we'll add this costume to the list. (Also, the request to toggle the vampire skin visual effect is noted. )
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Thanks @bhlegit! We're tracking this bug with another costume, so we'll add this costume to the list. (Also, the request to toggle the vampire skin visual effect is noted. )
Rohamad_Ali wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Thanks @bhlegit! We're tracking this bug with another costume, so we'll add this costume to the list. (Also, the request to toggle the vampire skin visual effect is noted. )
Toggle request noted is the best news for me in a long time . That would be so great if it finally happened .