Light Attacking is Broken? (and animation priority)

Nifty2g

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

@Nifty2g Lets face it they can't do animation priority without an input delay as a result its just unrealistic. What they going to do speed the animation up to light speed and make it look like a fight in Dragon Ball Z anime?

Revert it back to what it was?

But that defeats the purpose of implementing Animation Priority. If they do that people playing pvp can't see whats coming. I really hope there is a happy medium but I can't see that happening.

They stated in a previous update that they will not impliment this change unless it is perfect because they want combat to feel fluid, this is far from perfect, I don't know how this even made it to live.

How could you sit there and say this is fine to make it to live (and stay how it is for that matter)? There is a queue system going on your abilities to make combat feel significantly less fluid and just completely buggy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Q_ov1wm9A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crknpdj2ZYg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdjHaUY504I

This has nothing to do with animation cancelling, you can still do it perfectly. This is a direct hit to ability priority which affects light attacking rather than animation canceling. So I don't exactly see what you are trying to say? Macros don't actually exist other than simple input ones which barely do anything, I'd really like to see someone doing a complex multiple key macro during a dynamic environment in PvP or PvE.

Whatzituyah

Nifty2g wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

@Nifty2g Lets face it they can't do animation priority without an input delay as a result its just unrealistic. What they going to do speed the animation up to light speed and make it look like a fight in Dragon Ball Z anime?

Revert it back to what it was?

But that defeats the purpose of implementing Animation Priority. If they do that people playing pvp can't see whats coming. I really hope there is a happy medium but I can't see that happening.

They stated in a previous update that they will not impliment this change unless it is perfect because they want combat to feel fluid, this is far from perfect, I don't know how this even made it to live.

How could you sit there and say this is fine to make it to live (and stay how it is for that matter)? There is a queue system going on your abilities to make combat feel significantly less fluid and just completely buggy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Q_ov1wm9A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crknpdj2ZYg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdjHaUY504I

This has nothing to do with animation cancelling, you can still do it perfectly. This is a direct hit to ability priority which affects light attacking rather than animation canceling. So I don't exactly see what you are trying to say? Macros don't actually exist other than simple input ones which barely do anything, I'd really like to see someone doing a complex multiple key macro during a dynamic environment in PvP or PvE.

When I hear animation priority I think of animations in general doing a full animation without being cut off sorry. I think this is just minor tweak that prioritizes normal attacks. I love the animations and I wish people wouldn't skip over them because they want to min-max stuff its art.

While I appreciate art ironically I am horrible at doing it. Also mind being more specific in the title to avoid more confusion?

Gilliamtherogue

Whatzituyah wrote: »

I think animation priority should be a thing because its better than dying in 2 seconds not seeing what hit you because of macros. If there is something "off" sure they can fix it but I would prefer to see what I am getting hit by than having no delay.

My 2 cents

This doesn't stop macro'ers from doing anything though. You can change a machine's input to adjust to these changes and have them always do abilities the millisecond they become available. A human brain can't do that, and these changes are destructive to combat as a whole. No one is defending this, not even PvPers. There are a few instances where combat is better (low ping, small fights, controlled environments) but overall its awful.

Nifty2g

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

@Nifty2g Lets face it they can't do animation priority without an input delay as a result its just unrealistic. What they going to do speed the animation up to light speed and make it look like a fight in Dragon Ball Z anime?

Revert it back to what it was?

But that defeats the purpose of implementing Animation Priority. If they do that people playing pvp can't see whats coming. I really hope there is a happy medium but I can't see that happening.

They stated in a previous update that they will not impliment this change unless it is perfect because they want combat to feel fluid, this is far from perfect, I don't know how this even made it to live.

How could you sit there and say this is fine to make it to live (and stay how it is for that matter)? There is a queue system going on your abilities to make combat feel significantly less fluid and just completely buggy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Q_ov1wm9A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crknpdj2ZYg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdjHaUY504I

This has nothing to do with animation cancelling, you can still do it perfectly. This is a direct hit to ability priority which affects light attacking rather than animation canceling. So I don't exactly see what you are trying to say? Macros don't actually exist other than simple input ones which barely do anything, I'd really like to see someone doing a complex multiple key macro during a dynamic environment in PvP or PvE.

When I hear animation priority I think of animations in general doing a full animation without being cut off sorry. I think this is just minor tweak that prioritizes normal attacks. I love the animations and I wish people wouldn't skip over them because they want to min-max stuff its art.

You're talking about animation cancelling I think, rather than light attack weaving and fluid combat, certain animations are taking priorities over others locking them up etc

Whatzituyah

@Nifty2g um please and sorry again? Its late at night here. Oh ok but still confusing man but what I said how they have to fix animation cancelling is true though at least thats my opinion.

SwaminoNowlino

Whatzituyah wrote: »

@Nifty2g um please and sorry again? Its late at night here. Oh ok but still confusing man but what I said how they have to fix animation cancelling is true though at least thats my opinion.

Animation cancelling is an accepted part of the game straight from ZOS' mouth. Heck they even balanced VMA around it. They even stated when they implemented this system that it was not going to impact animation cancelling or DPS.

That's beside the point because the bug @Nifty2g and others are pointing out does not impact block/bash animation cancelling. Every video I've seen its still possible. This is light attack weaving which is a separate thing. So I guess you can hate on animation cancelling if you want, but it's kind of irrelevant to this conversation. I've been watching streams and videos and it actually looks to me like this is making things worse in terms of "being able to see what you're getting hit with." It actually looks like people are learning to queue up abilities so they all go off at once. I saw a guy get hit with 5 heavy attacks in the blink of an eye yesterday.

STEVIL

So, since DB I have had staff character doing lotsa light, med, hvy weave with abilities. More than usual as I try the new enchants on infused wpns etc, even a full 5pc Torugs.

Overall tho I have not experienced the full shutdown of abilities being discussed here.
Would be great if there was addon to show key-clicks along beside action. Video just shows you one side, like hearing one side of a phone call.

I have seen timing chgs from before but nothing difficult to adapt.
I have seen some indication that it may no longer be true that a basic attack won't cancel a skill.
I HAVE DEFINITELY SEEN the targeting of basic attacks is a lot less forgiving. Used to be a little off was fine as long as some bit was close at end. Not so much now.

Now it seems light attack not dead on target won't fire, just sputter.
Now it seem Med and Hvy not kept on target during charge up will cancel and a queued skill won't kick off when that attsck aborts.
This does mean it's easier to have an attack fail if you are not more careful now while moving actively
I THINK I even saw this happen with a hard casting cfrag with no weave but where took aim off target during cast.

Some of these could explain some of what was seen, esp early on before realizing the patterns chgd.

So far I don't see broken but instead different and less forgiving for some previous sequencing that will be especially noticeable for highly mobile attackers who don't become extra careful.

Gilliamtherogue

STEVIL wrote: »

Would be great if there was addon to show key-clicks along beside action. Video just shows you one side, like hearing one side of a phone call.

But you can see buttons being pressed, just look at the ability bar, you can see an ability highlight/indent when being pressed.

Slayyer-AUS

Let's face it...it feels like we are playing a game boy arcade game right now.

Skitttles

It feels like my fingers are too fast for the game now. Skills won't go off or when they do it comes all at once after a delay. I have to press everything really slow now else I find myself button mashing to make skills work.

With weaving, the animations and when I press the button are WAY out of sync. In Cyrodiil with the higher ping it looks and feels really awkward. No me gusta.

Slayyer-AUS

I wonder if this issue will get fixed faster than the infinite loading screen issue.

OnThaLoose

Figure I'd add to this, as I'm also having the same issues. And it's not just the flame staff either.

Zoner

Zos pls ;_; my magicka nb is unusable right now and is only good for farming because this issue is so bad. I don't wanna farm nodes forever

khele23eb17_ESO

This is really spoiling my fun

yiasemi

Given up on the game right now. I was so happy to get crafting bags too. <Lip quivers> Paying my subs, feeding my horse and watching this thread.

KingMagaw

My opinion, a step done in wrong direction.

Combat feels so poor now, abilities sometimes go off sometimes not. Why introduce something that takes away from player experience i don't know (

STEVIL

Last night stam nb daggers weave ran new quests plus explore.
Mag blade ran dailies with staff weave.
Mag temp inferno dailies with staff weave.

Have gotten used to new sequencing and things apoear to be fine. If anything content fights go quicker tho might be other reasons.

Definitely not anywhere near "my magicka nb is unusable right now" level of problems.

Ymmv and not sauing there arent issues but it serms like some may be managed by adapting to new sequences instead of hoping they go back to what was favored.

I dont think this is ALL BUG.

Zoner

Unusable in this context means that such a substantial dps drop has occurred as to make the character considerably less useful in the end game content it was typically used for. As this is the only dps currently on the account, it does suck knowing that your buddies will have to do s bit of carry when they didn't need to before.

Numerous friends have decided to swap to stam until this issue is corrected. The main point here is that it was fine before, no idea why it was ever messed with in the first place.

Also, Australian ping makes this much, much worse.

khele23eb17_ESO

STEVIL wrote: »

Last night stam nb daggers weave ran new quests plus explore.
Mag blade ran dailies with staff weave.
Mag temp inferno dailies with staff weave.

Have gotten used to new sequencing and things apoear to be fine. If anything content fights go quicker tho might be other reasons.

Definitely not anywhere near "my magicka nb is unusable right now" level of problems.

Ymmv and not sauing there arent issues but it serms like some may be managed by adapting to new sequences instead of hoping they go back to what was favored.

I dont think this is ALL BUG.

You know whats not a bug... when I do a sequence of button presses 3 times and get the same effect all 3 times. If I execute the same sequence of attacks 3 times and the character does it perfectly on the first one, misses an attack on the second one and gets an apoplectic fit on the 3rd one... it certainly isnt working right.

STEVIL

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Last night stam nb daggers weave ran new quests plus explore.
Mag blade ran dailies with staff weave.
Mag temp inferno dailies with staff weave.

Have gotten used to new sequencing and things apoear to be fine. If anything content fights go quicker tho might be other reasons.

Definitely not anywhere near "my magicka nb is unusable right now" level of problems.

Ymmv and not sauing there arent issues but it serms like some may be managed by adapting to new sequences instead of hoping they go back to what was favored.

I dont think this is ALL BUG.

You know whats not a bug... when I do a sequence of button presses 3 times and get the same effect all 3 times. If I execute the same sequence of attacks 3 times and the character does it perfectly on the first one, misses an attack on the second one and gets an apoplectic fit on the 3rd one... it certainly isnt working right.

That sounds like a reasonable definition of not a bug and also of not working right.

For me though i am not sering those things since altering my seq/timing?

STEVIL

Zoner wrote: »

Unusable in this context means that such a substantial dps drop has occurred as to make the character considerably less useful in the end game content it was typically used for. As this is the only dps currently on the account, it does suck knowing that your buddies will have to do s bit of carry when they didn't need to before.

Numerous friends have decided to swap to stam until this issue is corrected. The main point here is that it was fine before, no idea why it was ever messed with in the first place.

Also, Australian ping makes this much, much worse.

Ok so, some might consider redefining "unusable" to "considerably less useful" to be a good example of hyperbole.

Perhaps tho, simply giving your REDEFINED TERMS explanation ehen you use them could save confusion.)

As for "fine before" that depends on your definition of it.

This serms to me to be an attempt, possibly suessful, to change aspects of the AC/weave thing and there have bern many complaints abt those overtime. So for me, gotta figure out what it is first, then can asses fine v not fine.

It is NOT THE SAME tho and for some that is the definition of BROKEN.

Zoner

STEVIL wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

Unusable in this context means that such a substantial dps drop has occurred as to make the character considerably less useful in the end game content it was typically used for. As this is the only dps currently on the account, it does suck knowing that your buddies will have to do s bit of carry when they didn't need to before.

Numerous friends have decided to swap to stam until this issue is corrected. The main point here is that it was fine before, no idea why it was ever messed with in the first place.

Also, Australian ping makes this much, much worse.

Ok so, some might consider redefining "unusable" to "considerably less useful" to be a good example of hyperbole.

Perhaps tho, simply giving your REDEFINED TERMS explanation ehen you use them could save confusion.)

As for "fine before" that depends on your definition of it.

This serms to me to be an attempt, possibly suessful, to change aspects of the AC/weave thing and there have bern many complaints abt those overtime. So for me, gotta figure out what it is first, then can asses fine v not fine.

It is NOT THE SAME tho and for some that is the definition of BROKEN.

I consider fine for me to be the way my nightblade operated before the change, which was not a problem and produced consistent and reliable results. I can accurately predict how I'll perform in a trial/dungeon/whatever and know how much I'm going to contribute and whether I'll be reliable and dependable to my teammates.

When an unnecessary, unannounced, unwanted and dysfunctional new feature changes all of that with no warning, to the point where huge pauses in your weave pattern occur and your character freezes up for an entire second and does none of the commands you entered, that seems to me to be NOT what Zos intended. Jessica Folsom has said herself in this thread that the team seems to have found what is causing the problem, indicating that there is a problem.

You will notice other people on this thread have the same problems and it affects them in an equally negative way.

So, yes, if this has affected my character to the point where VMA is a considerable struggle when it wasn't before, and I'm afraid to participate in competitive group content because of my now stunted performance, which would let my
Teammates down, that makes me not want to use the character. Therefore, to me and j imagine probably to quite a few others, unusable.

You seem to be splitting hairs over word definitions when the problem is obvious and present regardless of how you or I refer to it. It is clear that this is not working as intended and needs to be fixed.

MickeyBN

The thing which irks me the most about this whole situation and this is what I really don't understand...

If they were attempting to "improve" the current combat system by making changes in DB, a decision that should NOT have been made hastily given the importance of smooth combat in the game...did they or did they not actually test this new system months in advance and release it on the PTS for players to test and provide feedback for?

Or did they actually (and I cant believe I'm about to say this)...mess with the combat, a fundamental feature of the game, and allowed it to go live before it was ready?

I don't know if anyone watches any cooking shows but there is a common saying,

"if it's not perfect, if you're not sure - don't put it on the plate."

khele23eb17_ESO

STEVIL wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Last night stam nb daggers weave ran new quests plus explore.
Mag blade ran dailies with staff weave.
Mag temp inferno dailies with staff weave.

Have gotten used to new sequencing and things apoear to be fine. If anything content fights go quicker tho might be other reasons.

Definitely not anywhere near "my magicka nb is unusable right now" level of problems.

Ymmv and not sauing there arent issues but it serms like some may be managed by adapting to new sequences instead of hoping they go back to what was favored.

I dont think this is ALL BUG.

You know whats not a bug... when I do a sequence of button presses 3 times and get the same effect all 3 times. If I execute the same sequence of attacks 3 times and the character does it perfectly on the first one, misses an attack on the second one and gets an apoplectic fit on the 3rd one... it certainly isnt working right.

That sounds like a reasonable definition of not a bug and also of not working right.

For me though i am not sering those things since altering my seq/timing?

I can avoid problems connected with my car suddenly stopping at random times by taking the bus. Doesnt make my car any less broken.

Nifty2g

STEVIL wrote: »

Last night stam nb daggers weave ran new quests plus explore.
Mag blade ran dailies with staff weave.
Mag temp inferno dailies with staff weave.

Have gotten used to new sequencing and things apoear to be fine. If anything content fights go quicker tho might be other reasons.

Definitely not anywhere near "my magicka nb is unusable right now" level of problems.

Ymmv and not sauing there arent issues but it serms like some may be managed by adapting to new sequences instead of hoping they go back to what was favored.

I dont think this is ALL BUG.

They said it was a bug though. And you also said it was fine on the first post too before I posted videos.

It's clearly not fine.

Alcast

It seems that on my Jabs build that half the Light Attacks dont go through, smth definitely changed

Nifty2g

Alcast wrote: »

It seems that on my Jabs build that half the Light Attacks dont go through, smth definitely changed

@Alcast check all the videos in the OP, something was stealth changed and broke

Shadesofkin

I've had repeated incidents where my toon randomly puts his weapon away, refuses to do a heavy attack, and gets stuck in staff casting animations for no apparent reason. Its killing me in VMSA and I was already getting fed up with that place as it was.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Thank you will there be an eta?

Not yet, no, and it wouldn't be fair to you all to speculate. We're still working on it.

MickeyBN

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Thank you will there be an eta?

Not yet, no, and it wouldn't be fair to you all to speculate. We're still working on it.

Communication is the important thing.

Thanks for the update.