[Permabans being lifted] ZOS how are we as a community dealing with exploits/hacking?

Lava_Croft

@Nifty2g: Bla bla bla about "community", sneakily try to turn it into a "PvE vs PvP" discussion.

Good job, you made your own thread worthless.

Korah_Eaglecry

Deltia wrote: »

I don't think public shaming is the answer because THAT'S the attention they want.

They want to grab a scroll, see there name across the screen and feel good about themselves due to attention, negative or otherwise.

However, they should absolutely not be allowed in game, especially the ones who've already been banned.

This game is our hobby but for some of us, our livelihood. A golf course wouldn't let someone come on the course with bionic arms and let me them scream, run around all of the course with no repercussions. This is the same thing, ban and move on. Don't reward them with attention, because mommy sure didn't.

Thats the attention they need. We are well beyond playing civilly with ZOS and the exploiters/cheaters in this game. They set this precedence by giving exploiters/cheaters vacations rather than bans or down right stripping them of things. Now we have a hack thats blatantly being used in a very public manner with not a damn concern about ZOS response. I wonder why that would be?

Name and Shame until ZOS pulls its collective heads from its corporate ***, I say.

holosoul

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Civil disobedience does have a place in society to raise attention to issues authorities would just like to ignore.

Nifty2g

Lava_Croft wrote: »

@Nifty2g: Bla bla bla about "community", sneakily try to turn it into a "PvE vs PvP" discussion.

Good job, you made your own thread worthless.

Actually I'm proving a point, the exploiting has been widespread from very known players to exploit in Cyrodill ever since they have been playing. Those players are the issue. Remove them.

Alurria

Naming and shaming has legal issues attached to it, I have never heard of a gaming company or any company doing that. It's just not going to happen.

Psychotius

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Naming and shaming has legal issues attached to it, I have never heard of a gaming company or any company doing that. It's just not going to happen.

Runescape actually made a zone where an npc (was like a Puritan witch hunter kind of guy) would call out character names of bots as they were banned. Was pretty funny.

SwaminoNowlino

holosoul wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Civil disobedience does have a place in society to raise attention to issues authorities would just like to ignore.

Don't disagree at all. But again, context matters. We have a federal holiday in the states to honor the man responsible for righting serious wrongs in our society through civil disobedience. Not comparing anything at all. But everyone on the Internet is so insistent on absolutes. All I'm saying is context matters, that's all.

Anyways, let's go Zenimax. Time to issue a statement regarding this. Don't let the community devolve into infighting over this BS. Fix it.

Attackopsn

JaceSB wrote: »

Its just unfair. Someone such as myself who has held number 1 vma Sorcerer and Nightblade 100% legitimately feels that the people who have used exploits to get those scores must be penalized in some way. I have put tons of time and effort into getting the scores I have gotten and holding number 1 and for someone to come in out of nowhere and use exploits just completely ruins the idea of competition and top scores. It disgusts me. It truly is unfair.

This, it makes it feel pointless, it needs to be resolved with harsh action

Lava_Croft

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

@Nifty2g: Bla bla bla about "community", sneakily try to turn it into a "PvE vs PvP" discussion.

Good job, you made your own thread worthless.

Actually I'm proving a point, the exploiting has been widespread from very known players to exploit in Cyrodill ever since they have been playing. Those players are the issue. Remove them.

You are trying to create a schism between a perceived "PvE audience" and a "PvP audience" while in reality every single PvP player is also a PvE player. There's no need for this nonsense. Community has to stand up as one against these hackers, not be split between PvE and PvP.

Nifty2g

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

@Nifty2g: Bla bla bla about "community", sneakily try to turn it into a "PvE vs PvP" discussion.

Good job, you made your own thread worthless.

Actually I'm proving a point, the exploiting has been widespread from very known players to exploit in Cyrodill ever since they have been playing. Those players are the issue. Remove them.

You are trying to create a schism between a perceived "PvE audience" and a "PvP audience" while in reality every single PvP player is also a PvE player. There's no need for this nonsense.

I'm not trying to create anything, I'm telling you where majority of the exploits are originating from, the same damn players that have been doing them since beta.
Since you are EU you probably don't know the current known person in PvP doing the hack who has done exploits/hacks since I can remember.

Please stop trying to start an argument over nothing

Rohamad_Ali

According to multiple posts , and who knows how reliable sources ..., this cheat machine has been used in one form or another since the dawn of whenever . Who knows what's legit and what not on a scoreboard ? Who knows who tweaked what to just enough levels not to be noticed .

So before everyone gets put under the desk lamp and interrogated by Officer Friday , let it go .

The records have been tainted . No one knows how long .

Alurria

Psychotius wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Naming and shaming has legal issues attached to it, I have never heard of a gaming company or any company doing that. It's just not going to happen.

Runescape actually made a zone where an npc (was like a Puritan witch hunter kind of guy) would call out character names of bots as they were banned. Was pretty funny.

Bots are not people.

Lava_Croft

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

@Nifty2g: Bla bla bla about "community", sneakily try to turn it into a "PvE vs PvP" discussion.

Good job, you made your own thread worthless.

Actually I'm proving a point, the exploiting has been widespread from very known players to exploit in Cyrodill ever since they have been playing. Those players are the issue. Remove them.

You are trying to create a schism between a perceived "PvE audience" and a "PvP audience" while in reality every single PvP player is also a PvE player. There's no need for this nonsense.

I'm not trying to create anything, I'm telling you where majority of the exploits are originating from, the same damn players that have been doing them since beta.
Since you are EU you probably don't know the current known person in PvP doing the hack who has done exploits/hacks since I can remember.

Please stop trying to start an argument over nothing

Please stop trying to create a schism between PvE and PvP while in reality we all should stand up against these hackers. Take your gripes with PvP players somewhere else. What do you know about how much people in vMSA have been hacking? A good hacker does it in a way that does not attract attention, for all you know half the leader board is made up of hackers. The difference is that in PvP others can see you hacking, while in things like vMSA nobody can. Keep your score sane and you can hack your way on the leader boards without any trouble.

Tandor

So the belief seems to be that the exploits happened at least initially in PvP and are now also being seen in PvE - is that a fair comment? If so, are those exploiting in PvE pure PvEers with no connection with PvP or are they the players who started doing it in PvP and are now doing it in PvE as well?

I ask because the last thing we want is for cheats to drive a wedge between PvPers and PvEers. Both communities need to be open and honest about the scale of the problem and its origins.

Lava_Croft

Tandor wrote: »

So the belief seems to be that the exploits happened at least initially in PvP and are now also being seen in PvE - is that a fair comment? If so, are those exploiting in PvE pure PvEers with no connection with PvP or are they the players who started doing it in PvP and are now doing it in PvE as well?

I ask because the last thing we want is for cheats to drive a wedge between PvPers and PvEers. Both communities need to be open and honest about the scale of the problem and its origins.

The problem is that nobody can ever know if someone is hacking in someting like vMSA if the hacker in question keeps his score within sane bounds. It's solo PvE and the only way to really check it is a video or maybe ZOS going through the logs.

SwaminoNowlino

Who cares where it started and whether they do PVP or PVE? If cancer spreads from your foot to your lungs you don't get mad at your foot. This is on ZOS to fix, period. They can ignore it no longer. This is a good thing ultimately.

Instead of bickering back and forth and debating if people should be banned or whatever, just keep the pressure on ZOS to fix it. Then everyone's happy.

Clerics1985

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Naming and shaming has legal issues attached to it, I have never heard of a gaming company or any company doing that. It's just not going to happen.

Runesccape did it with their botters etc., even made little Mini-game of it, putting them on a Podeum n a courtroom and allowing Players to come into the viewing and Toss tomatoes at them. before the ruling and their toon being locked out

Nifty2g

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

@Nifty2g: Bla bla bla about "community", sneakily try to turn it into a "PvE vs PvP" discussion.

Good job, you made your own thread worthless.

Actually I'm proving a point, the exploiting has been widespread from very known players to exploit in Cyrodill ever since they have been playing. Those players are the issue. Remove them.

You are trying to create a schism between a perceived "PvE audience" and a "PvP audience" while in reality every single PvP player is also a PvE player. There's no need for this nonsense.

I'm not trying to create anything, I'm telling you where majority of the exploits are originating from, the same damn players that have been doing them since beta.
Since you are EU you probably don't know the current known person in PvP doing the hack who has done exploits/hacks since I can remember.

Please stop trying to start an argument over nothing

Please stop trying to create a schism between PvE and PvP while in reality we all should stand up against these hackers. Take your gripes with PvP players somewhere else. What do you know about how much people in vMSA have been hacking? A good hacker does it in a way that does not attract attention, for all you know half the leader board is made up of hackers. The difference is that in PvP others can see you hacking, while in things like vMSA nobody can. Keep your score sane and you can hack your way on the leader boards without any trouble.

For the most part, I know most players and what they are capable of, once I seen a 566k Stamina Templar score pop up from someone I know, I went and reported it instantly, few hours later a score of 598k popped up from the same person as a Sorcerer.

It's not hard to know who cheats and who doesn't. 566k is possible and within boundaries, I know majority of the players with high scores who put a lot of effort in there and always increasing their scores bit by bit. But if a player makes a sudden jump then it raises attention, and I will report them for suspicious and to get looked in to. And yes, for awhile I have been into VMA and got interested in running it again but I think i'll wait.

But to talk about your under the radar point, I don't see the benefit that would give, if you are going in there with malicious intent you would go for a top score or do it as fast as you can otherwise it would defeat the purpose of doing it the normal way. If people are doing that then i don't know what to make a comment, just what's the point?

PurifedBladez

They're hackers who are *** the game up for yourself and, the consumer alike. Who really gives a *** if we name drop them on here. You should be thankful. Name dropping hackers should be encouraged.

Jaronking wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

This kind of intentional exploitation and cheating is disgusting. This is the same behavior that ruined diablo on console platforms, such a shame to see players going out of their way to ruin a game.

Well to be fair their not trying to ruin the game well not all of them some are just trying to get @ZOS to fox their dam game.Can you blame them for that?

There is no being fair with them dude.. are they fair with us? They're ruining the game by doing this *** and I can blame them for that. The excuse that they just want ZoS to fix the game is such a chicken *** excuse it's unbelievable.

Kas

What's the stance on some add-ons that are clearly against the rules but still widely used and only giving a marginal benefit.
I'm thinking of stuff like autopmatically craftign batches of x potions or automatically skinning a whole stack of fish.

imho this shouldn't be ignored when it's forbidden, but banning might be a bit of a stretch, given how little harm is done compared to other exploits that have been used in the past (and probably now).

in my personal opinion, things like these shoould not be possible with the add-on api, if they are forbidden. a missing clear line also makes players think they can get away with more severe things.

PurifedBladez

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Here is a name and shame free video. If this gets removed its a blatant act of censorship.

NOTE: This video contains NO NAMES and NO DESCRIPTION of the exploit or how to do it. It just shows visually what is happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KosPhi1vchQ

This is what it's like to PvP right now. This is the quality of our game.

SHAME!
SHAME!

Lol oh no dude... oh no.

Lava_Croft

@Nifty2g: I think you are underestimating the amount of people that just want a crutch to lean on without attracting attention to themselves with top scores or times. Every since QuakeWorld back in the 90's, the nastiest hackers were always those who did not stand out because they made smart use of their hacks. What you see on the videos and vMSA scores that pop up the last few days are just attention ***. Those never last long.

Given ESO's very shoddy history when it comes to exploiting and hacking, it's probably runs deeper than most of us want (to believe). It's time for ZOS to finally show some muscle and make a real effort to try and root out these practices, no matter if it's PvE or PvP, it affects us all.

Force-Siphon

most people don't take vMA scores seriously because players will do account-share runs for real money. I assume anyone at the top of the leaderboard does this for others tbh. Some ego's were hurt we get it, let's stop acting like pve players are holier than thou, there is stuff that happens on that side of the track too just saying. As long as someone can account share a run I'm not taking anyone seriously with maelstrom.

Nifty2g

Lava_Croft wrote: »

@Nifty2g: I think you are underestimating the amount of people that just want a crutch to lean on without attracting attention to themselves with top scores or times. Every since QuakeWorld back in the 90's, the nastiest hackers were always those who did not stand out because they made smart use of their hacks. What you see on the videos and vMSA scores that pop up the last few days are just attention ***. Those never last long.

Given ESO's very shoddy history when it comes to exploiting and hacking, it's probably runs deeper than most of us want (to believe). It's time for ZOS to finally show some muscle and make a real effort to try and root out these practices, no matter if it's PvE or PvP, it affects us all.

Well like I said, what does it prove really, it seems kinda useless to exploit and waste 50 minutes of your time exploiting when you could just clear it yourself normally in the same amount of time without having to do something to lower your score so you dont grab attention. I mean thats my look on it, I agree with you but it seems quite pointless, and I guess people like that just like to take short cuts or show off to their small little group of friends or something.
Hey btw dont worry about tagging me, i get the notification :P

staracino_ESO

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

@Nifty2g: Bla bla bla about "community", sneakily try to turn it into a "PvE vs PvP" discussion.

Good job, you made your own thread worthless.

Actually I'm proving a point, the exploiting has been widespread from very known players to exploit in Cyrodill ever since they have been playing. Those players are the issue. Remove them.

You are trying to create a schism between a perceived "PvE audience" and a "PvP audience" while in reality every single PvP player is also a PvE player. There's no need for this nonsense.

I'm not trying to create anything, I'm telling you where majority of the exploits are originating from, the same damn players that have been doing them since beta.
Since you are EU you probably don't know the current known person in PvP doing the hack who has done exploits/hacks since I can remember.

Please stop trying to start an argument over nothing

Please stop trying to create a schism between PvE and PvP while in reality we all should stand up against these hackers. Take your gripes with PvP players somewhere else. What do you know about how much people in vMSA have been hacking? A good hacker does it in a way that does not attract attention, for all you know half the leader board is made up of hackers. The difference is that in PvP others can see you hacking, while in things like vMSA nobody can. Keep your score sane and you can hack your way on the leader boards without any trouble.

For the most part, I know most players and what they are capable of, once I seen a 566k Stamina Templar score pop up from someone I know, I went and reported it instantly, few hours later a score of 598k popped up from the same person as a Sorcerer.

It's not hard to know who cheats and who doesn't. 566k is possible and within boundaries, I know majority of the players with high scores who put a lot of effort in there and always increasing their scores bit by bit. But if a player makes a sudden jump then it raises attention, and I will report them for suspicious and to get looked in to. And yes, for awhile I have been into VMA and got interested in running it again but I think i'll wait.

But to talk about your under the radar point, I don't see the benefit that would give, if you are going in there with malicious intent you would go for a top score or do it as fast as you can otherwise it would defeat the purpose of doing it the normal way. If people are doing that then i don't know what to make a comment, just what's the point?

There are quite a few who suddenly cropped up in the last day or so. The reason they are keeping it 'within reasonable bounds' is because they want to effortlessly farm weapons. They know that if they place insane scores, they will be found out. As someone who is regularly in the 20-30 range and scans the upper list enviously each week,, suddenly getting dropped down to 50+ over this weekend sent up some red flags.

Rex-Umbra

Seriously perma ban these cheating kids.

Lava_Croft

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

@Nifty2g: I think you are underestimating the amount of people that just want a crutch to lean on without attracting attention to themselves with top scores or times. Every since QuakeWorld back in the 90's, the nastiest hackers were always those who did not stand out because they made smart use of their hacks. What you see on the videos and vMSA scores that pop up the last few days are just attention ***. Those never last long.

Given ESO's very shoddy history when it comes to exploiting and hacking, it's probably runs deeper than most of us want (to believe). It's time for ZOS to finally show some muscle and make a real effort to try and root out these practices, no matter if it's PvE or PvP, it affects us all.

Well like I said, what does it prove really, it seems kinda useless to exploit and waste 50 minutes of your time exploiting when you could just clear it yourself normally in the same amount of time without having to do something to lower your score so you dont grab attention. I mean thats my look on it, I agree with you but it seems quite pointless, and I guess people like that just like to take short cuts or show off to their small little group of friends or something.
Hey btw dont worry about tagging me, i get the notification :P

There's probably more people than we both want there to be that are just lazy. From their point of view, why bother doing it clean if you can do it with some 'help' and half the effort?

staracino_ESO

staracino_ESO wrote: »

There are quite a few who suddenly cropped up in the last day or so. The reason they are keeping it 'within reasonable bounds' is because they want to effortlessly farm weapons. They know that if they place insane scores, they will be found out. As someone who is regularly in the 20-30 range and scans the upper list enviously each week,, suddenly getting dropped down to 50+ over this weekend sent up some red flags.

As a continuation of this, the reason someone hacking would want to farm these weapons is because they want to be able to have the weapons for when(if?) the hack gets fixed. This way, when they get their full pardon (or don't even stand trial at all), they get to have their MA weapons that they got effortlessly.

Nifty2g

staracino_ESO wrote: »

staracino_ESO wrote: »

There are quite a few who suddenly cropped up in the last day or so. The reason they are keeping it 'within reasonable bounds' is because they want to effortlessly farm weapons. They know that if they place insane scores, they will be found out. As someone who is regularly in the 20-30 range and scans the upper list enviously each week,, suddenly getting dropped down to 50+ over this weekend sent up some red flags.

As a continuation of this, the reason someone hacking would want to farm these weapons is because they want to be able to have the weapons for when(if?) the hack gets fixed. This way, when they get their full pardon (or don't even stand trial at all), they get to have their MA weapons that they got effortlessly.

It's just disappointing

staracino_ESO

This time, for once, the sky is literally falling.