DPS Counter, add it...please?

hedna123b14_ESO

Meters improve game play first and foremost for the people doing the damage. It's a highly useful performance comparing tool that is necessary for players to improve. Without knowing how you measure against other players you cannot accurately judge your own progress. Taking away or not implementing this tool within the game is the most severe blow to the competency of the player base that I have seen to date, since it actually encourages mediocrity through ignorance.

kuro-dono

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

trying to make sense to you is hard. How about this, my high school mate, wee bit younger than, me, captain of football team.
Exact same time. again i am wee bit fat, but none less damn good runner. been always proud of my feet even tho my belly side been balloonish.

The point of usain bolt and my difference it to point out that difference between baddie and elite should not / cant be

the kind of difference eso atm has between bad and elite.

You are cabable of talk about usain polt before he become jesus super star right? he was not olympic runner in high school. stop being toxic moron, and no, i am not slacking here usain bolt.

When i was in high school same time as he, i was my school top 1 shared position as being fast and usain possibly equally fast in his school. after that it took few years when i finished school and entered working ppls world that he went for full sport mode so the cap between us as an runners got huge.

So back into eso land>>

Baddies and elites there should not be 20-30k difference or 4-5x difference in dmg, try to understand this from the point of entertainment not SPORT.

Leaderboards are like sports. And its fun for some people to maximize their char's effectiveness.
For the rest of the game 15-25k dps is enough for all content except vMoL. If someone cant finish WGT/ICP with this kind of dps, dps is not their problem.
If you want to show off, put some effort in it. Though its absolutely not nessesary, its just something extra if you're after top scores.

i still dont understand the point why average +++ to elites dps has to be so much higher than normal ppl:s?

The problem again with this game is the gap between bad and elites, simple as that, too huge difference is just wrong.

Asmael

kuro-dono wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

trying to make sense to you is hard. How about this, my high school mate, wee bit younger than, me, captain of football team.
Exact same time. again i am wee bit fat, but none less damn good runner. been always proud of my feet even tho my belly side been balloonish.

The point of usain bolt and my difference it to point out that difference between baddie and elite should not / cant be

the kind of difference eso atm has between bad and elite.

You are cabable of talk about usain polt before he become jesus super star right? he was not olympic runner in high school. stop being toxic moron, and no, i am not slacking here usain bolt.

When i was in high school same time as he, i was my school top 1 shared position as being fast and usain possibly equally fast in his school. after that it took few years when i finished school and entered working ppls world that he went for full sport mode so the cap between us as an runners got huge.

So back into eso land>>

Baddies and elites there should not be 20-30k difference or 4-5x difference in dmg, try to understand this from the point of entertainment not SPORT.

Leaderboards are like sports. And its fun for some people to maximize their char's effectiveness.
For the rest of the game 15-25k dps is enough for all content except vMoL. If someone cant finish WGT/ICP with this kind of dps, dps is not their problem.
If you want to show off, put some effort in it. Though its absolutely not nessesary, its just something extra if you're after top scores.

i still dont understand the point why average +++ to elites dps has to be so much higher than normal ppl:s?

The problem again with this game is the gap between bad and elites, simple as that, too huge difference is just wrong.

No more wrong than someone who didn't bother studying (working on his build in ESO) and got a 4/40 on a math exam when someone else got a 35/40.

LadyNalcarya

kuro-dono wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

trying to make sense to you is hard. How about this, my high school mate, wee bit younger than, me, captain of football team.
Exact same time. again i am wee bit fat, but none less damn good runner. been always proud of my feet even tho my belly side been balloonish.

The point of usain bolt and my difference it to point out that difference between baddie and elite should not / cant be

the kind of difference eso atm has between bad and elite.

You are cabable of talk about usain polt before he become jesus super star right? he was not olympic runner in high school. stop being toxic moron, and no, i am not slacking here usain bolt.

When i was in high school same time as he, i was my school top 1 shared position as being fast and usain possibly equally fast in his school. after that it took few years when i finished school and entered working ppls world that he went for full sport mode so the cap between us as an runners got huge.

So back into eso land>>

Baddies and elites there should not be 20-30k difference or 4-5x difference in dmg, try to understand this from the point of entertainment not SPORT.

Leaderboards are like sports. And its fun for some people to maximize their char's effectiveness.
For the rest of the game 15-25k dps is enough for all content except vMoL. If someone cant finish WGT/ICP with this kind of dps, dps is not their problem.
If you want to show off, put some effort in it. Though its absolutely not nessesary, its just something extra if you're after top scores.

i still dont understand the point why average +++ to elites dps has to be so much higher than normal ppl:s?

The problem again with this game is the gap between bad and elites, simple as that, too huge difference is just wrong.

Why people who spend a lot of time on embroidering are better at it than those who only do that once in a month? Why people who spend their free time in a gym are more fit than those who dont? Why someone who bakes pancakes every week can do it better than a person who rarely cooks?
Life is so unfair.

hedna123b14_ESO

kuro-dono wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

trying to make sense to you is hard. How about this, my high school mate, wee bit younger than, me, captain of football team.
Exact same time. again i am wee bit fat, but none less damn good runner. been always proud of my feet even tho my belly side been balloonish.

The point of usain bolt and my difference it to point out that difference between baddie and elite should not / cant be

the kind of difference eso atm has between bad and elite.

You are cabable of talk about usain polt before he become jesus super star right? he was not olympic runner in high school. stop being toxic moron, and no, i am not slacking here usain bolt.

When i was in high school same time as he, i was my school top 1 shared position as being fast and usain possibly equally fast in his school. after that it took few years when i finished school and entered working ppls world that he went for full sport mode so the cap between us as an runners got huge.

So back into eso land>>

Baddies and elites there should not be 20-30k difference or 4-5x difference in dmg, try to understand this from the point of entertainment not SPORT.

Leaderboards are like sports. And its fun for some people to maximize their char's effectiveness.
For the rest of the game 15-25k dps is enough for all content except vMoL. If someone cant finish WGT/ICP with this kind of dps, dps is not their problem.
If you want to show off, put some effort in it. Though its absolutely not nessesary, its just something extra if you're after top scores.

i still dont understand the point why average +++ to elites dps has to be so much higher than normal ppl:s?

The problem again with this game is the gap between bad and elites, simple as that, too huge difference is just wrong.

I think you are missing the point...if there is such a large gap between good and bad players, but a lot of the BiS gear is crafted, it seems that the bad players don't put in the effort and hence are left in the dust...Effort and lack thereof is what creates this wide of a gap...

kuro-dono

This isnt real life. this is entertainment which atm is damn toxis based on communitys issues between bads and elites.
and if ppl cant understand that is wrong then... i got some bad news to tell.

All these nerf rages, bragging videos, nagging and l2p stuff, its just wrong.

bring softcaps, stop minmax, stop bursting and skipping mechanics and expecially damaging issue is animation cancelling. sweet 16 to 30 year old guys who have nothing in their life atm but school and eso will prosper while rest of the suckers just have to suck it and have no reasonable chance to have fun

MaxwellC

Woah can I just take a second to step off topic and say @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom THAT FORUM CHANGE THOUGH! Looks SICK!

kuro-dono

its maybe easier to understand this way>>> about 1% of population can clear everything smoothly, skip mechanics, destroy raids, destroy ppls dreams of enjoying online game.

Didnt someone already mention it that zeni is supposed to have millions of players? propably not, close to 100k sounds right. so that epic 1% the ones who cry that game needs more elite stuff and the kind of stuff that motivates others to do better? ic been going for half year to 1 year now? and how many was succesful to beat it hardmode without abusing shard before it got fixed? There is no motivation when you have to work your ass off the kind of way that its unreasonable expecially when considering that we talking about entertainment.

After wipes here and there, someone comes asking almost nicely, and very frustated and wee ragy about why this and that so hard? then first is l2P

Yeah right.

i dont mind having to teach folks about stuff, and its funny how it can take 3h shouting them to use pinion in ts when suddenly they start doing what they are meant to do and it goes like charm.

What i am talking about is getting majority of the 99% players to pull the kind of dps that its around the same as the elites that can finish white gold tower kena boss without running out of resources or clear veteran maelstorm. something that wont happen even via practice and loads of pain and misery. the vast majority of player base to bull the kind of dps elites are pulling wont be elites, but those who are elites, will be always elites. Not bloody dps contest heroes.

so instead of making it all about dmg, zeni should destroy the dmg cap between normal folks and elites. I am confident in elites they find themself new way to brag how even tho they have near same dmg as the normal folks they still able to do something ridiculous.

I love eso and its pve content ant pvp content but these folks who tell me l2p or so wont realize that when i am doing animation cancelling for longer than 5min my hand gets damn sore and seriously miserable, to replace that i could steal my better halfs black widow keyboard and instead of physicly doing animation cancelling i could put into each macro button skill + block to miraculously double my dmg or ligh / medium attack + skill + block.

Up to you how you want to play this but elite status should not be about dmg but about skill leading group, skill in recognizing *** things and where is safe to be, and last skill in tanking and sorting it out without button mashing.

IF someone actually saw any of the endgame gamers playing this game with video showing their pressing of buttons and all that folks would be amazed whats making the difference.

dday3six

kuro-dono wrote: »

This isnt real life. this is entertainment which atm is damn toxis based on communitys issues between bads and elites.
and if ppl cant understand that is wrong then... i got some bad news to tell.

All these nerf rages, bragging videos, nagging and l2p stuff, its just wrong.

bring softcaps, stop minmax, stop bursting and skipping mechanics and expecially damaging issue is animation cancelling. sweet 16 to 30 year old guys who have nothing in their life atm but school and eso will prosper while rest of the suckers just have to suck it and have no reasonable chance to have fun

Entertainment in this sense, i.e. a multiplayer video game, and leisure activity, is not insulated from the differences between human beings and their individual performance level as well as their circumstance. We are not equal in either of those regards. People with more time to invest will often do better, that's pretty typical for everything, not just gaming.

ESO is not a singular, and tailor-made experience, It's also not ZOS' resposibility totally cater to the individual needs of every player, completely leveling the field for all involved. ZOS simply provides a medium for entertainment. After that the onus is on the player.

LadyNalcarya

kuro-dono wrote: »

its maybe easier to understand this way>>> about 1% of population can clear everything smoothly, skip mechanics, destroy raids, destroy ppls dreams of enjoying online game.

Didnt someone already mention it that zeni is supposed to have millions of players? propably not, close to 100k sounds right. so that epic 1% the ones who cry that game needs more elite stuff and the kind of stuff that motivates others to do better? ic been going for half year to 1 year now? and how many was succesful to beat it hardmode without abusing shard before it got fixed? There is no motivation when you have to work your ass off the kind of way that its unreasonable expecially when considering that we talking about entertainment.

After wipes here and there, someone comes asking almost nicely, and very frustated and wee ragy about why this and that so hard? then first is l2P

Yeah right.

i dont mind having to teach folks about stuff, and its funny how it can take 3h shouting them to use pinion in ts when suddenly they start doing what they are meant to do and it goes like charm.

What i am talking about is getting majority of the 99% players to pull the kind of dps that its around the same as the elites that can finish white gold tower kena boss without running out of resources or clear veteran maelstorm. something that wont happen even via practice and loads of pain and misery. the vast majority of player base to bull the kind of dps elites are pulling wont be elites, but those who are elites, will be always elites. Not bloody dps contest heroes.

so instead of making it all about dmg, zeni should destroy the dmg cap between normal folks and elites. I am confident in elites they find themself new way to brag how even tho they have near same dmg as the normal folks they still able to do something ridiculous.

I love eso and its pve content ant pvp content but these folks who tell me l2p or so wont realize that when i am doing animation cancelling for longer than 5min my hand gets damn sore and seriously miserable, to replace that i could steal my better halfs black widow keyboard and instead of physicly doing animation cancelling i could put into each macro button skill + block to miraculously double my dmg or ligh / medium attack + skill + block.

Up to you how you want to play this but elite status should not be about dmg but about skill leading group, skill in recognizing *** things and where is safe to be, and last skill in tanking and sorting it out without button mashing.

IF someone actually saw any of the endgame gamers playing this game with video showing their pressing of buttons and all that folks would be amazed whats making the difference.

So what?
Ok, I'll try to put it simple:
1)Games are hobbies
2)You can enjoy your hobby with any level of dedication, but more dedication always gives you better resuls. No matter what - puzzles, knitting, video games, tennis, anything in the world. You can not buy a "Knitting 101" book and instantly become better than a person who has been knitting for 10 years every evening. But it doesnt mean you cant have fun and be happy.
3)If you're only happy if you have the best results, prepare to put an equal effort. I cant expect to become a fitness model if I only do exercises once in a week, right?
4)The gap you keep talking about is only related to your player skill. And unlike some mmos, you dont ahve to grind 24/7 to get those results. You just need to play smart. I know that for sure, from my experience.

P.S. Reality is destroying my dreams of being a princess. Life is so evil.

kuro-dono

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

This isnt real life. this is entertainment which atm is damn toxis based on communitys issues between bads and elites.
and if ppl cant understand that is wrong then... i got some bad news to tell.

All these nerf rages, bragging videos, nagging and l2p stuff, its just wrong.

bring softcaps, stop minmax, stop bursting and skipping mechanics and expecially damaging issue is animation cancelling. sweet 16 to 30 year old guys who have nothing in their life atm but school and eso will prosper while rest of the suckers just have to suck it and have no reasonable chance to have fun

You know what is toxic? Your behavior.
In this short post you're managed to:
1) Assume that any competitive player is a no lifer, which is just as offensive as claiming that all casuals are dumb noobs.
2) Claim that you're not allowed to have fun if you're not minmaxing (wut)
3) Claim that everyone must paly your way so they wont hurt your bloated ego.

So I have really bad news for you - you are a toxic elitist. You think you are superior and want others to obey.
This is not gonna happen, but guys like you already generate a lot of hatred and bias in this community, utterly destroying it.

I am harsh with my words towards toxity and people like you. With my guildies in daggers, hours after hours of training gone tru to get tru mechanics but its been damn good fun with loads of folks whose dps isnt ridiculous. way more enjoyable than with folks who have huge urge to link their dps rate constantly.

Here i guess you could have words elitist, elitism and tryhard getting mixed, but lets keep that story out of this story.

And yeah, been there to see elite see hardtime clean wgt pinion boss while solo they done veteran maelstorm, then seen casuals who just do do amazing job in pinion boss.or they leave crypt of hearts adds alone until very last moment, having the patience to wait and see when its time.

I know my weaknesses. i know my dps will be miserable for me, so easier to stay at tanking and healing even tho i do it all with same char since too lazy to level alts to be full trial type tank or full real dps magica or stamina based and so on. So not sure i could be elitist? never requiring ppl to link me achis to allow to join dungeon runs, never asking any sort of dps details or heal rate, but the moment i see things going wrong, i will slowly but surely get to the point where changes are made into playstyle/skill setup and if required then join ts so not sure which part of this adds into elitism on my behalf, but when we scout you, you are upgrading your own sentences with very negative words. I say nothing about dumb n00bs, or bloated egos. did i say people are no lifers either? i dont know many non schooler non working life person who is actively clearing Veteranmaelstorm again i said no negative word, it just implies whats their state of life and where their hours/devotion can be put into.

I am not asking anyone to obey me either? I am pointing out why ppl unable to clear out stuff like maelstorm arena or White gold tower kena boss or ... ... not sure what other boss atm require stupid amount of dps to be killed before fight becomes pointlessly too hard? Yes intentionally skipped Veteran maw of lorkhaj.

AA final boss and Maw of Lorkhaj normal mode final boss are about dps kind of but the kind of dps that nearly all of the 99% ppl out of 100% are able to clear it eventually. with just wee more practicing.

so lord Murka where did i offend someones ego being bloated?
where did i assume every non schooling, non working person is no lifer?
The current meta of minmax, max dps with great risk, but not really since pve content in this game mechanical wise is easy to see whats gonna get me killed and when to get where to stack or regroup and so on so if ppl are as aware as required to do minmaxing then its just pointless to do anything else time and effectiveness wise. So back to that question of yours>>>

2) Claim that you're not allowed to have fun if you're not minmaxing (wut)

so read again what i wrote above.

then: are you aldmeri, ebon or covenant?

Covenant wise: stormhaven, i just feel so sorry for all those guys who are just QQ:ing because they cant get any sort of group for dailies. some ppl been there hours, some 30 min, some 5min and frustrated that ppl dont wanna give it go because of what? Mechanics for each dungeon is so simple, easy going, white gold tower and prison little bit harder but so reasonable to learn, wont take ages. Do you know why there is issues? So many ppl disappointed in lack of dps in group. Every dungeon expect those i mentioned wee bit above have no dmg check.

In my guild i try to make sure that none of my folks are left out of getting daily undaunteds done, but come those days when white gold tower and imperial city prison are going, then its erm wee struggle. So mechanics wise, voice commanding wise, its all so easy to do, and pretty much any gear, but if you lack char control, skill rotation/weaving then.. OUCH. all because of dps. Yeah. the folks who are damn good with 2 deaths only at wgt with light attacking only. they just all knew exacly what they doing, how they doing and they been doing that for way longer than most casuals normal folks non guildies get chance to repeat same dungeon over and over again to get it all right.

So, those guys at stormhaven, you think they having fun when they want to do it all, learn it and become master in doing them, but loads of them dont get the chance at all. I been there to help quite few stormhaven folks to get group going and assist them as well as i can to get them improve to the state where they are month or 2 or maybe half year later they eventually play with some hot names white gold tower and prison and are amazed that prior to that point, they never got chance, or no one bothered to taugh in "pulled up group"

3) Claim that everyone must play your way so they wont hurt your bloated ego.

???

All i say is that everyone should be able to clear 4 man dungeons anyway they want, learn mechanics, have fun and get reward for it. 12 man thingys, trials. yeah, there its reasonable we require little bit more action, more passion to get it sorted. after all its quite an team effort to clean trials. Still AA and hel rah, so easily done without ts but more of an understanding where you going to get your arse handed to you. AA final boss has some sort of minimum dps requirement? but that dmg is not outrageous. Hel rah isnt dps race either unless someone thinks the mobs are going to be such an huge problem. Can be done but wee more of an trouble but doable, but come now into Sanctum and Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj, forget joining these anytime soon if team cant handle AA or hel rah Hardmode. Mechanics fun as hell and challenging, but then when we talk about dps, the dps challenge level is 10x higher then mechanics challenge level.

You can play anyway you want as marketed by zeni. does this apply to the mmo content of this game atm? no it doesnt match.Thats why ppl go meta after meta for different cheese builds, thats why we have months where there is 180 nb 20 templar, 20 dk and 180 sorcs. or 200 dk 200 templar, zero sorc and nb. These numbers have nothing to do with reality, they just there as an indicators.

So I have really bad news for you. Have background to back you up before you come spitting your toxic words at me

SolarCat02

I am in favor of a an individual dps/hps meter that cannot be shared with others in-game. I play on Xbox One and don't have access to add-ons that would provide that information, and I know of quite a few people in the guild (myself among them) who would love to have access to that information when tweaking our builds and gear, or playing around with new skills and weapon sets.

If you are worried about it being abused, then make a practice area or something, have it only work there, and disable recording and screenshots in that area. Something. Anything.

The numbers of damage done shown on screen is nice, but it only goes so far. It shows specifics, but people who are still learning are also learning to interpret the big picture. A new player to mmo's could very easily conclude that heavy attacks are better than dots, or a single target attack is better than aoes, because the numbers are bigger. Then I get the fun job of trying to get them to let go of those assumptions.

Everyone learns at their own pace, and I am not the sort to dictate anyone's build. I am just hoping for the game to give tools so people can learn for themselves in five minutes that destruction staves are better for magicka and bows are better for stamina instead of asking people to make a leap of faith and just try the other one.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Sad part is the veteran 6 was convinced it was his fault but I told him over and over "Mate you've got it on point trust me you heal like a boss they just suck". This was obviously done through a message as moments after they booted him and I decide tell them "Jeez that healer was good but you guys need to work out your build, seeya mate."
These instances shouldn't be the norm.

@MaxwellCrystal, I just wanted to say thank you so much for sticking up for the healer. Groups like that, it really is a thankless job... (As is tanking, for that matter.)

ZOS_CoriJ

We are reopening this thread due the fact that there has been good input in between the more disruptive commentary. It seems like players want to discuss this and have shared some good insight. Therefore we want to allow for further conversation.

Seeing as this is a topic easy to draw strong opinions some of the conversation got very terse and many comments had to be removed. (You may yet see some commentary leave this thread.) It is probably best to leave behind any argumentative comments and get back on topic. If this cannot be kept civil and away from attacks for points-of-view we will be closing the thread.