DPS Counter, add it...please?

MaxwellC

On PC with add-ons you can have a DPS counter that tells you the amount of DPS you pull. As of now on console and PC without the use of add-ons (which is exclusive to PC only) you can now see the numbers of damage you do on enemies so my thing is why not make it so you can add those numbers up for a DPS counter. This will help you improve on builds and give accurate build information even on theory-crafting.

Many people want to know how much DPS another pulls for dungeons and trials so alongside making it available without add-ons how about we allow all players to see it too (those who are in the group). This will also help players improve their DPS as some may think they're doing good DPS when it's their team-mates pulling the deeps. Maybe if possible we can have a weekly top DPS saved to your character alongside with top damage absorb/heals done which could save a lot of "If you're not this level or have enough CP you're booted".

-Discuss

[minor edit to review topic]

Woeler

I think they already said they will not be implementing this in the game. Might have heard it somewhere on esolive, can't recall.

Smileybones

No, DPS meters are aids when they allow one to see what others DPS are, it brings a lot of toxicity into the community and make relationship between players very bad.

For this reasons some MMO's decided not to include a DPS meter and I believe it's a wise thing.

Ser Lobo

I'm personally against this, but I respect those who want it.

My personal feelings is that this would just be used to force or 'forcefully encourage' other players to conform to a subset of min-maxed builds that cross a certain damage threshholds, when in reality the content should be built and designed for nearly every build, and the devs should continue to nerf and balance min-maxed builds down.

Woeler

Smileybones wrote: »

No, DPS meters are aids when they allow one to see what others DPS are, it brings a lot of toxicity into the community and make relationship between players very bad.

For this reasons some MMO's decided not to include a DPS meter and I believe it's a wise thing.

Yea well, some people also really think their double bow hybrid vampire pet sorcerer is totally viable and are the direct reason for the vwgt and vicp nerfs (both of the dungeons totally doable). That is the other side of the story, I mean sure you will get removed from groups if you completely suck, but on the other hand, don't suck. And not sucking at dps is really not that hard in this game.

I do believe it will bring toxicity in some extent, but I'm happy to accept that if it means that we can finally get some difficult content that doesn't get nerfed because some people refuse learn to play a decent role in a group based instance.

Argruna

Please for the love of things no. That was one reason why I hated and left WoW was Recount and Skada. People have no clue AT ALL how to use the things. Completely. So what if you are #1 on damage dealt to the boss, you never did a single interrupt, picked up adds and are number one in being healed along with damage taken because you stood in fire but who cares, you're number one on the damage meter which means you are godly, we are plebes, etc. As for this:

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Maybe if possible we can have a weekly top DPS saved to your character alongside with top damage absorb/heals done which could save a lot of "If you're not this level or have enough CP you're booted".
-Discuss

It would not change a thing. It would just be another hurdle tossed at a player trying to get in. Adding in how well I swing a mallet without factoring in interrupts, dodging, etc. I could easily blow that number up just by letting a harvester constantly re-heal themselves. Giving another reason it kick people is another thing. Take WoW for example, people kick others for not being completely decked out in heirlooms for low level content. Hell, my druid got kicked simply because the monk tank didn't want to compete 'for xmog' because I was in heirlooms.

If the people that want to min/max want to, they can download the add-ons and get with like minded people. For me, the thing has always been this: Is the mob/boss dead? Good, move on.

RAGUNAnoOne

LOL I thought you meant a counter for the DPS role in PvP but I would support both

Pigment

I play on PC and use a DPS counter, but they should not be solely relied on. How high your DPS # is is only one slice of the pizza. However, not every build is going to be the same (hopefully) so it is helpful to see where your build is at. Maybe it should be optional?

Alurria

No thanks

MaxwellC

@Argruna
Well as @Woeler stated this is one of the main reason why most easy dungeons (IMO) are being nerf'd again. WGT/ICP and especially VCOA are all being nerf'd now I can say prision is a bit annoying but nonetheless they're easy. If you have a clear counter showing that everyone is doing the job right then it would just be an issue of going over the mechanics but sometimes you are stuck in a dungeon for an hour+ just because something isn't going right hence why I said to also add most damage taken/ healing given pretty much a group check in the sorts.

Your WoW example doesn't make any sense as this is bout you're gear being ready while mind is about who's DPS,damage received, and heals are on point. The counter simply shows those factors rather than leaving up to guessing; now you can make an argument that gear does give a DPS change and that's true but knowing when to set buffs and follow up your rotation is just as important and divisive.

MaxwellC

@Pigment
Please read the rest of my post... I do go over that the DPS counter would be there alongside a damage absorb/ heal counter. DPS counter as a title was mainly to draw attention while I feel the information inside. This counter is mainly to know who's on point and whoever isn't can be brought up to par with changes.

Pigment

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Pigment
Please read the rest of my post... I do go over that the DPS counter would be there alongside a damage absorb/ heal counter. DPS counter as a title was mainly to draw attention while I feel the information inside. This counter is mainly to know who's on point and whoever isn't can be brought up to par with changes.

Ah, sorry, I kind of skimmed over the posts, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents lol

Argruna

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Argruna
Well as @Woeler stated this is one of the main reason why most easy dungeons (IMO) are being nerf'd again. WGT/ICP and especially VCOA are all being nerf'd now I can say prision is a bit annoying but nonetheless they're easy. If you have a clear counter showing that everyone is doing the job right then it would just be an issue of going over the mechanics but sometimes you are stuck in a dungeon for an hour+ just because something isn't going right hence why I said to also add most damage taken/ healing given pretty much a group check in the sorts.

Your WoW example doesn't make any sense as this is bout you're gear being ready while mind is about who's DPS,damage received, and heals are on point. The counter simply shows those factors rather than leaving up to guessing; now you can make an argument that gear does give a DPS change and that's true but knowing when to set buffs and follow up your rotation is just as important and divisive.

I will expand on the example for you. So there an NB in group using a bow and we have a DK with a twohander who is dodging out of fire, interrupting menders or whatever they can interrupt as often as they can, while that NB is out of range for most of that stuff. Things go down and you wipe. WHO DO YOU KICK? You look at meters. Oh look that DK twohander didn't do as much damage for the week as that NB with the bow. Kick the DK twohander. Let's ignore the fact that they were dealing with aoe and interrupts.
So you are playing a stampler and just rocking it. You know your stuff. You did the min/max. You get online maybe twice a week so you only get to play for a limited amount of time. This week, you decide to queue and you get in. Things are doing good after first pull until someone checks meters. The other dps log more hours than you and have a higher average. You get kicked simply because you don't play that often even though you know what you are doing.

I could go on with people maybe wanting to heal dungeons but their heal numbers are lower than their dps, etc. All in all, people will kick regardless of anything and just use the DPS/heal meters as another excuse. It will not change the queue times. It will not change spending an hour in a dungeon. What would change would be people would make it a big deal that the average damage for your class from this guide from min/maxer so-and-so says this, so you should be pulling those numbers, if you are not? Kick time. Most people will do what they are doing anyway. Retreat to guilds to tank and heal or have a good group. You think dps meters will be used to improve one's dps and some will use it that way while others will use it as yet another yardstick to get that 'elite pug they need to get in and out of the dungeon. Instead of seeing 'must have CP 160 and Stormbringer title', you would most definitely see, 'must have CP 160, Stormbringer title and do xx,xxx' flashing up in chat. Damage meters, again, are never used for the intended purpose and can be just as harmful as helpful. I think most would rather be kicked for not having that CP 160 then just because they focused on mechanics instead of pewpewing.

Talyena

I have no problems with them adding a personal DPS meter and DPS log. Just don't add the ability to share. Then if anyone else wants to know your DPS they just have to take your word for it. It would then be a useful tool to you that couldn't be used against you. It would allow you to test builds and have a reliable DPS number to compare.

On that same note, we need some test dummies. It isn't hard, just some NPCs that remain in place, don't lose health, and don't fight back.

thomas1970b16_ESO

It is fine the way it is now.

ConeOfSilence

I love my mods on P.C.

P.C master race FTW :P

MaxwellC

@Argruna
You're assuming that after getting wiped once that player will get booted? If that's the case then that player should be grateful for not being in the same group as that leader. DPS doesn't dropped to a horrible low because your interrupt another target, I'm a stam DK and I maintain high DPS even if I have to interrupt something (which is the tanks job) as a stam DK we have DoTs any stam DK will tell you that we maintain a high DPS in PvE.

The second example I can reason with so maybe it being displayed for others to check isn't the best idea unless you're able to allow them too if you decide too.

Yes the meter will definitely change how you progress through-out the dungeon thus making it faster and easier. The DPS meter in that case should be view-able by you only and if you allow them to view it you can by accepting a option.

ausmack2014

I wouldn't mind some sort of report that would let me know how I'm doing against some sort of average for my class and level, though it isn't essential. If I am out in the world doing well, not repeatedly dying and learning my class and its abilities, that generally enables me to carry my role in any group I may be in.

However, I don't want to know what other people in a group are doing in regard to damage. If they are playing their role well, doing interrupts, dodging, etc - to me, that's much more important than whether or not they are doing x dps. Dungeons are designed with fights that test a group's ability to do the fight in the correct manner - whether its staying of bad stuff on the ground, interrupting a particular ability, moving or staying still, etc. Ultimately that has far more to do with playing skill than dps.

clayandaudrey_ESO

We need this like we need dragon mounts.

LadyNalcarya

Smileybones wrote: »

No, DPS meters are aids when they allow one to see what others DPS are, it brings a lot of toxicity into the community and make relationship between players very bad.

For this reasons some MMO's decided not to include a DPS meter and I believe it's a wise thing.

Yeah, now there's only toxicity against healers and tanks when dds cant play their role.
But ist perfectly fine, right? Those arent people. And if bloodspawn's cave collapses or Skoria runs out of platforms at 80% hp, its obviosly because tank didnt add enough damage.

Talyena

Oh now I want a dragon mount.

clayandaudrey_ESO

Sorry not happening

MaxwellC

@KoshkaMurka
Yup I get that a lot when I tank (even though I hate it so much) a lot of players on XB1 who play with me love me tanking their trial runs/dungeons but if I do it with other Pugs it's my fault for not DPSing enough or my fault for not taking all the damage. Then I look at how long it takes them to go through ads/bosses and draw my conclusion right there.

Katahdin

Been asked before. Didnt they disable that ability in one addon already?

No thanks

Lenikus

There was one Addon, called group damage, i believe.
It tracked info on the mob's health and informed with some precision how much damage (%) was done by each player, and in how long (dps).

They removed the data from the game which rendered any addon that tries to track any damage information that is not your own could no longer work.
The feature to track damage that you yourself doesn't interfere with is non-existent. And they stated the decision was made to prevent 'elitism' and/or generic toxic behaviour towards more casual players.

LadyNalcarya

Lenikus wrote: »

to prevent 'elitism' and/or generic toxic behaviour towards more casual players.

Who will prevent toxic behaviour against support classes that those opressed casual dds often show?
And in any case, personal dps meter with an option to share wouldnt hurt anyone.

P.S. If you think that without group dps meter its impossible to tell that dps is low, you're very, very wrong.

Smileybones

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Lenikus wrote: »

to prevent 'elitism' and/or generic toxic behaviour towards more casual players.

Who will prevent toxic behaviour against support classes that those opressed casual dds often show?
And in any case, personal dps meter with an option to share wouldnt hurt anyone.

P.S. If you think that without group dps meter its impossible to tell that dps is low, you're very, very wrong.

You sound quite salty dude or dudette.

You keep bring into discussion support classes but having a group DPS meter wouldn't help them so your point is quite irrelevant.

Also no one denies about a personal DPs meter, it's all about group meter.

Also if you can't tell a low DPS without a meter, why wanting one ?

Try to make sense.

khele23eb17_ESO

Id like a meter added to the game if only for the reason of causing pressure for ZoS to actually balance class dps. But that is also exactly the reason why it wont be added.

Lenikus

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

If you think that without group dps meter its impossible to tell that dps is low, you're very, very wrong.

Even EP players can tell when DPS is low, you just look at the red thingie on top of the screen.

The developers simply made it impossible for anyone to accurately tell teh dps of an individual group member that's not yourself.
PC players still have addons that can even automatically share the DPS data. On console, you can tell your own damage overall with the numbers that pop, still better than people usually hoped at started.

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Id like a meter added to the game if only for the reason of causing pressure for ZoS to actually balance class dps. But that is also exactly the reason why it wont be added.

Balance does not mean every class doing teh same DPS.
The class balance does not mean A = B = C, it means A > B > C > A in situational contexts...

Bofrari

Why not just make it to where you can see it and not others then if you feel like sharing you can post like on pc this would keep all the drama out and so on.

khele23eb17_ESO

Lenikus wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

If you think that without group dps meter its impossible to tell that dps is low, you're very, very wrong.

Even EP players can tell when DPS is low, you just look at the red thingie on top of the screen.

The developers simply made it impossible for anyone to accurately tell teh dps of an individual group member that's not yourself.
PC players still have addons that can even automatically share the DPS data. On console, you can tell your own damage overall with the numbers that pop, still better than people usually hoped at started.

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Id like a meter added to the game if only for the reason of causing pressure for ZoS to actually balance class dps. But that is also exactly the reason why it wont be added.

Balance does not mean every class doing teh same DPS.
The class balance does not mean A = B = C, it means A > B > C > A in situational contexts...

I disagree. Balance means every DD class doing comparable dps. They might be doing it different ways but the difference in overall effectiveness as damage dealers should be within 5-10% of eachother not 50%. The game does not offer enough 'situational contexts' to warrant taking a 25k dps stam character when you can take a 35k mag build with higher survivability who also heals the group while dealing damage.