DPS Counter, add it...please?

Scraelos

Smileybones wrote: »

No, DPS meters are aids when they allow one to see what others DPS are, it brings a lot of toxicity into the community and make relationship between players very bad.

For this reasons some MMO's decided not to include a DPS meter and I believe it's a wise thing.

We have bad relationship between players, because some of them don't care about their effectiveness, when they join group. They just ruin the game and spend other people's time.
While you are playing solo, noone cares about your dps. But in groups it is vital data.
Also it will be usefull to introduce some dps achievements, like "10k dd", "20k dd", "30k dd" etc. It will make possible to pick up group members to match your own game expierence.

Humatiel

The problem people have with this is that it quantifies inadequacy, but skilled players already think that the vast majority of pugs are inadequate to run anything other then some pledges anyway. As it stands you can already get addons that tell you your dps in relation to the teams dps, that alone (since there are only two dps in practice) should give you enough of a read to judge.

What New/Casual/IplayHowILike types of players need to understand is even without these types of addons its the easiest thing in the world for me to look at a team. How much dps did I do against a bosses full health / is the healer returning resources / is the tank using warhorn etc. This addon is very much geared toward casuals to point out to them in a nonjudgmental manner that they aren't utilizing there full potential.

So really when you put it in the right perspective its just people being too stubborn to accept the reality of there situation.

LadyNalcarya

Humatiel wrote: »

The problem people have with this is that it quantifies inadequacy, but skilled players already think that the vast majority of pugs are inadequate to run anything other then some pledges anyway. As it stands you can already get addons that tell you your dps in relation to the teams dps, that alone (since there are only two dps in practice) should give you enough of a read to judge.

What New/Casual/IplayHowILike types of players need to understand is even without these types of addons its the easiest thing in the world for me to look at a team. How much dps did I do against a bosses full health / is the healer returning resources / is the tank using warhorn etc. This addon is very much geared toward casuals to point out to them in a nonjudgmental manner that they aren't utilizing there full potential.

So really when you put it in the right perspective its just people being too stubborn to accept the reality of there situation.

And btw, console players cant even use addons so built-in meter would be useful.
In any case... I think some people dont understand that there's a lot of options between "2k light attacks only" and "35+k". Being able to see dps would give a more realistic picture.

LadyNalcarya

Knightpanther wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

On PC with add-ons you can have a DPS counter that tells you the amount of DPS you pull. As of now on console and PC without the use of add-ons (which is exclusive to PC only) you can now see the numbers of damage you do on enemies so my thing is why not make it so you can add those numbers up for a DPS counter. This will help you improve on builds and give accurate build information even on theory-crafting.

Many people want to know how much DPS another pulls for dungeons and trials so alongside making it available without add-ons how about we allow all players to see it too (those who are in the group). This will also help players improve their DPS as some may think they're doing good DPS when it's their team-mates pulling the deeps. Maybe if possible we can have a weekly top DPS saved to your character alongside with top damage absorb/heals done which could save a lot of "If you're not this level or have enough CP you're booted".

-Discuss

DPS meters are for idiots who spend their time trying to look good without a care for the group they are in or learning the mechanics of a fight.

Be safe

Actually dead dd does 0 damage and so does a person who is rezzing them.
So dying automatically means dps loss Which in turn means that this dd is not very good.

LadyNalcarya

Scraelos wrote: »

Knightpanther wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

On PC with add-ons you can have a DPS counter that tells you the amount of DPS you pull. As of now on console and PC without the use of add-ons (which is exclusive to PC only) you can now see the numbers of damage you do on enemies so my thing is why not make it so you can add those numbers up for a DPS counter. This will help you improve on builds and give accurate build information even on theory-crafting.

Many people want to know how much DPS another pulls for dungeons and trials so alongside making it available without add-ons how about we allow all players to see it too (those who are in the group). This will also help players improve their DPS as some may think they're doing good DPS when it's their team-mates pulling the deeps. Maybe if possible we can have a weekly top DPS saved to your character alongside with top damage absorb/heals done which could save a lot of "If you're not this level or have enough CP you're booted".

-Discuss

DPS meters are for idiots who spend their time trying to look good without a care for the group they are in or learning the mechanics of a fight.

Be safe

Best mechanic is to skip mechanic using high DPS.
Players, who care about killing stuff quickly are idiots? is this some kind of stupid joke?

Luckily we have vMoL where you wont get past even the first boss if you just stand still and spam skills...

kuro-dono

many good games die when toxity level is at certain level and the balance between bads and elites too high.

i propably dont have to link all the links of dead games because of this?

and how many times they said eso would die before many other games died that came after eso?

As long as the assholity level doesnt get too high eso will be alive many years later.

too bad current team is very clueless how to make this game miraculously amazing for everyone.

LadyNalcarya

kuro-dono wrote: »

many good games die when toxity level is at certain level and the balance between bads and elites too high. .

In this game, its a result of having content that is either too easy or too hard for average players.
Also, just in case... dont assume that people who kick everyone and act rude are automatically "elite". Copying someone's build doesnt make then "elite", and most likely they're not even good at playing said build. Most of players from top raiding guilds are actually quite friendly (but ofc its unlikely to meet them in pugs).

MaxwellC

Humatiel wrote: »

The problem people have with this is that it quantifies inadequacy, but skilled players already think that the vast majority of pugs are inadequate to run anything other then some pledges anyway. As it stands you can already get addons that tell you your dps in relation to the teams dps, that alone (since there are only two dps in practice) should give you enough of a read to judge.

What New/Casual/IplayHowILike types of players need to understand is even without these types of addons its the easiest thing in the world for me to look at a team. How much dps did I do against a bosses full health / is the healer returning resources / is the tank using warhorn etc. This addon is very much geared toward casuals to point out to them in a nonjudgmental manner that they aren't utilizing there full potential.

So really when you put it in the right perspective its just people being too stubborn to accept the reality of there situation.

Couldn't have said it any better.

kuro-dono

BALANCE was the word i used. So the balance between means that there is something like this between bad and elite>>

scrub, semi-okay, knows what he is doing, good, very good, damng good, elite and so on. So if you are average, you are way better, more op than bad, when you are elite, you are...? catch what i mean. i used word between, so there is anything between bad and elite.

BALANCE means that average folks have reasonable chance to become / be as good as elite, while the lower end folks are mostly doomed.

So if game with elite endgame stuff the scrubs obviously will cry that mommy!!!! i cant beat this, then the elites go and tell them to l2p, guess what? thats pretty toxic. For some reason folks have no patience to teach properly to ppl, they have no intrest improving them and at same time those scrubs/noobs/baddies too lazy to learn. again very toxic on everyones side.

I bet majority of the so called elites have had someone to tutor them in previous games and in this game and so on, which is awesome, but at some point, the teaching practice dies off and nobody does anything to improve relationships between bads and good. so bads stay BAD and goods just become more and more out of control then they end up crying more elite stuff and more this and that. Baddies beg for nerfs which they mostly get since game makers totally useless to improve healthiness of gaming community and yet again players themself at great fault that relationships are so poor.

I been always wondering, why the hell above average guys have so huge need to be so much far above the normal ppl? I mean we are talking about entertainment here! this isnt bloody olympics, this is supposed to be here to entertain us and give us nice way to spend time into. Instead we have these forums filled with scrubs this, scrubs that, and elites this, elites that.

Obviously, everyone doesnt need to wear exact same gear, exact same stats, exact same dps, but come on, the difference is atm way too huge. Your scrub dd:s when they perform at their best do maybe 8-10k dps? and elites do these days....??? 30-40k? the difference of... 4-5x is not acceptable.

Reality check, in real life, being semi fat, i lost to usain bolt in 100m run by 2-3sec out 10 sec of mine and his 8 sec whatever i remember it was the difference was not 4-5x but something acceptable. BTW! we have same day birthday + same year so cant blame age difference or anything.

Back to this Between Bads and goods>>>

This game. no matter what ppl say is screwing up community as an community big time by allowing animation cancelling + and giving us Champion points as in= The dmg and the quality difference between bad builds vs elite builds is just ridiculous.

With next dlc if they let ppl see your total cp there is more than before ppl left out of dungeon runs unless something miraculous happens.
I run Semi well organized guild, of best 100 pvp/pve folks online, maybe 5-10% is the kind of quality who would be counted as an elite, they rarely help our scrubs with anything anymore, only if i am myself asking, very nice!

Anyway our scrubs, i keep teaching them all dungeons and trials except veteran maw of Lorkhaj or sanctum. I tell them of specific skills, what will improve their survivality, dps wise i give ideas but not forcing them to change their builds unless something too impossible. Doing for example White gold tower with them oh the joys watching them unable to burst dps.

Most important thing what elites could do is openly stop beign so closed coffeeclub in this game and help more of the scrubs and teach mechanics. I do myself mechanics teaching as much as i can, but what the hell one man alone can do?
I know there is plenty of ppl teaching but even that is not anywhere near enough.

OBVIOUSLY round 2 the baddies are quite awful in their language aswell, but it doesnt really help if you yourself as an better than average player who want to give them advices go and tell it in terms like l2p or check youtube or slot this and that skill and stop this and that. Those folks need time to learn.

To summary my wall of text to 4 points>

READ THIS PART READ THIS PART READ THIS PART READ THIS PART
READ THIS PART READ THIS PART READ THIS PART READ THIS PART

Situation in eso> difference/balance between bads and goods too HUGE

Task> Cut off the huge dmg difference, rebalance dungeons, never again allow ppl to pull 4-5x more dmg than others unless they just seriously dont do anything else but light attacking and oh yes! SOFTCAPS jesus why the hell zeni removed softcaps is beyond madness.

Action > Rebalance and instruct softcaps. Baddies and goodies stop being ***/egowarriors. Give baddies reasonable way to become better than average and for elites, learn to understand, this is game not real life, you dont need to be so much superior than the scrubs and just enjoy the bloody game. RNG jesus is obviously harsh and makes you feel negative when you farm all the high end dungeons/trials and cant get your desired set pieces to make you even stronger than you are already and the content we talk about is the kind which 90% of playerbase cant complete? Just relearn to enjoy and get rid of the toxity. OH yes! Tone down Animation cancelling, you cancel skill, you cancel effect, very simple, whoever crying that it makes battle feel clumsy and slow without is full of that stuff that comes out of my cute wee thingy i sit top on.

Result> When dmg contest is no more thing, and tanking is again reasonable in dungeons/trials due to them becoming reasonable challenge to the rest of the team to handle and make tank life easier we have more playerbase who can actually complete game content. No more just elites bragging and scrubs being jealous and begging for nerfs. No more horrible Griefers who make it so damn toxic. and scrubs have more reason to motivate to become better than average joe.

+++

PVP wise this all is even more obvious, since i do lot more pvp than pve i know that there is handful of monster players who make it utterly miserable for baddies to learn and handle. How someone can learn something from it when this 2h hero comes and whack you once and you dead but oho! i got hit by 3-5 skills but saw nothing but that sword swing? The excuses of lagg and the bad being drunk affected by drugs and thinking it all happened in 10 sec instead of 1-3 sec are again bile of... that stuff that comes second time out of my wee thingy. This was just one example>

How about these griefers with their unlimited resources able to handle loads of ppl, teleport and cloak away for all eternity?
very frustrating and toxic to baddies and obviously these folks doing this are feeling miserable in real life, but eh this is again entertainment for us, not way to harash ppl mentally, since physicly we cant unless the person is doing to themself something to ease the pain in the head.

Tank builds able to handle 20 ppl without any sort of issues? Yeah i know. these wonderful things called poisons are coming to ruin each of these griefer/toxic type folks, but jesus how i fear that its yet another backfiring attempt to improve the game, which i hope will get major tone down, but until then, it will be there to make gaming miserable for many many ppl.

AND ONE MORE TIME> THIS IS GAME, ENTERTAINMENT FOR US HUMAN BEINGS! NOT PLACE TO GRIEFE OTHERS, BE SOME EGO, OR *** TO ANGER PPL.
WE ARE ALL HUMANS AND GET HURT AND ANGRY ALL THE TIME BUT LETS TRY TO PRETEND THAT ESO IS NOT REAL LIFE AND DO THE KIND OF THINGS THAT MAKE US HAPPY.

Those who think griefing and humilating ppl makes you happy, rethink that idea!

Refuse2GrowUp

Not sure if OP is asking for a group damage report or an FTC style personal report?

Frankly, I support both, but I don't see the devs putting a group damage report in game...especially since they disabled the PC add-on. However, I see no reason the devs shouldn't make a FTC style report part of the base game code. It is there for progression and learning.

Yes, some players will require you to have a certain DPS parse to join content. Either this is an end-game trials guild, and that high DPS parse is important (for content like vMoL or vSanctum) and you should be willing to share your parse and prove yourself to compete with, and play alongside, the best. Or, it will be rookie a-holes demanding your parse just to help carry them thru what most consider easy dungeons. These are the same morons saying you need 400 CPs to join a group for WGT. Just ignore them and move on as you probably wouldn't want to be playing with them anyways. Either way, a FTC style report does not change anything as PC functions this way with add-ons and console uses Blood Spawn DPS testing as a substitute.

So, just give us the FTC style demage report por favor ZOS. This guy would be most appreciative.

Jaronking

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

many good games die when toxity level is at certain level and the balance between bads and elites too high. .

In this game, its a result of having content that is either too easy or too hard for average players.
Also, just in case... dont assume that people who kick everyone and act rude are automatically "elite". Copying someone's build doesnt make then "elite", and most likely they're not even good at playing said build. Most of players from top raiding guilds are actually quite friendly (but ofc its unlikely to meet them in pugs).

Do you mind if I ask how does Hodor recruit new players?I doubt you usually use the group finder or have members run in Pug groups when they have a amazing guild of raiders around.So how do you as a Guild recruit new players and members to your guild.

dday3six

kuro-dono wrote: »

BALANCE was the word i used. So the balance between means that there is something like this between bad and elite>>

scrub, semi-okay, knows what he is doing, good, very good, damng good, elite and so on. So if you are average, you are way better, more op than bad, when you are elite, you are...? catch what i mean. i used word between, so there is anything between bad and elite.

BALANCE means that average folks have reasonable chance to become / be as good as elite, while the lower end folks are mostly doomed.

So if game with elite endgame stuff the scrubs obviously will cry that mommy!!!! i cant beat this, then the elites go and tell them to l2p, guess what? thats pretty toxic. For some reason folks have no patience to teach properly to ppl, they have no intrest improving them and at same time those scrubs/noobs/baddies too lazy to learn. again very toxic on everyones side.

I bet majority of the so called elites have had someone to tutor them in previous games and in this game and so on, which is awesome, but at some point, the teaching practice dies off and nobody does anything to improve relationships between bads and good. so bads stay BAD and goods just become more and more out of control then they end up crying more elite stuff and more this and that. Baddies beg for nerfs which they mostly get since game makers totally useless to improve healthiness of gaming community and yet again players themself at great fault that relationships are so poor.

I been always wondering, why the hell above average guys have so huge need to be so much far above the normal ppl? I mean we are talking about entertainment here! this isnt bloody olympics, this is supposed to be here to entertain us and give us nice way to spend time into. Instead we have these forums filled with scrubs this, scrubs that, and elites this, elites that.

Obviously, everyone doesnt need to wear exact same gear, exact same stats, exact same dps, but come on, the difference is atm way too huge. Your scrub dd:s when they perform at their best do maybe 8-10k dps? and elites do these days....??? 30-40k? the difference of... 4-5x is not acceptable.

Reality check, in real life, being semi fat, i lost to usain bolt in 100m run by 2-3sec out 10 sec of mine and his 8 sec whatever i remember it was the difference was not 4-5x but something acceptable. BTW! we have same day birthday + same year so cant blame age difference or anything.

Back to this Between Bads and goods>>>

This game. no matter what ppl say is screwing up community as an community big time by allowing animation cancelling + and giving us Champion points as in= The dmg and the quality difference between bad builds vs elite builds is just ridiculous.

With next dlc if they let ppl see your total cp there is more than before ppl left out of dungeon runs unless something miraculous happens.
I run Semi well organized guild, of best 100 pvp/pve folks online, maybe 5-10% is the kind of quality who would be counted as an elite, they rarely help our scrubs with anything anymore, only if i am myself asking, very nice!

Anyway our scrubs, i keep teaching them all dungeons and trials except veteran maw of Lorkhaj or sanctum. I tell them of specific skills, what will improve their survivality, dps wise i give ideas but not forcing them to change their builds unless something too impossible. Doing for example White gold tower with them oh the joys watching them unable to burst dps.

Most important thing what elites could do is openly stop beign so closed coffeeclub in this game and help more of the scrubs and teach mechanics. I do myself mechanics teaching as much as i can, but what the hell one man alone can do?
I know there is plenty of ppl teaching but even that is not anywhere near enough.

OBVIOUSLY round 2 the baddies are quite awful in their language aswell, but it doesnt really help if you yourself as an better than average player who want to give them advices go and tell it in terms like l2p or check youtube or slot this and that skill and stop this and that. Those folks need time to learn.

To summary my wall of text to 4 points>

READ THIS PART READ THIS PART READ THIS PART READ THIS PART
READ THIS PART READ THIS PART READ THIS PART READ THIS PART

Situation in eso> difference/balance between bads and goods too HUGE

Task> Cut off the huge dmg difference, rebalance dungeons, never again allow ppl to pull 4-5x more dmg than others unless they just seriously dont do anything else but light attacking and oh yes! SOFTCAPS jesus why the hell zeni removed softcaps is beyond madness.

Action > Rebalance and instruct softcaps. Baddies and goodies stop being ***/egowarriors. Give baddies reasonable way to become better than average and for elites, learn to understand, this is game not real life, you dont need to be so much superior than the scrubs and just enjoy the bloody game. RNG jesus is obviously harsh and makes you feel negative when you farm all the high end dungeons/trials and cant get your desired set pieces to make you even stronger than you are already and the content we talk about is the kind which 90% of playerbase cant complete? Just relearn to enjoy and get rid of the toxity. OH yes! Tone down Animation cancelling, you cancel skill, you cancel effect, very simple, whoever crying that it makes battle feel clumsy and slow without is full of that stuff that comes out of my cute wee thingy i sit top on.

Result> When dmg contest is no more thing, and tanking is again reasonable in dungeons/trials due to them becoming reasonable challenge to the rest of the team to handle and make tank life easier we have more playerbase who can actually complete game content. No more just elites bragging and scrubs being jealous and begging for nerfs. No more horrible Griefers who make it so damn toxic. and scrubs have more reason to motivate to become better than average joe.

+++

PVP wise this all is even more obvious, since i do lot more pvp than pve i know that there is handful of monster players who make it utterly miserable for baddies to learn and handle. How someone can learn something from it when this 2h hero comes and whack you once and you dead but oho! i got hit by 3-5 skills but saw nothing but that sword swing? The excuses of lagg and the bad being drunk affected by drugs and thinking it all happened in 10 sec instead of 1-3 sec are again bile of... that stuff that comes second time out of my wee thingy. This was just one example>

How about these griefers with their unlimited resources able to handle loads of ppl, teleport and cloak away for all eternity?
very frustrating and toxic to baddies and obviously these folks doing this are feeling miserable in real life, but eh this is again entertainment for us, not way to harash ppl mentally, since physicly we cant unless the person is doing to themself something to ease the pain in the head.

Tank builds able to handle 20 ppl without any sort of issues? Yeah i know. these wonderful things called poisons are coming to ruin each of these griefer/toxic type folks, but jesus how i fear that its yet another backfiring attempt to improve the game, which i hope will get major tone down, but until then, it will be there to make gaming miserable for many many ppl.

AND ONE MORE TIME> THIS IS GAME, ENTERTAINMENT FOR US HUMAN BEINGS! NOT PLACE TO GRIEFE OTHERS, BE SOME EGO, OR *** TO ANGER PPL.
WE ARE ALL HUMANS AND GET HURT AND ANGRY ALL THE TIME BUT LETS TRY TO PRETEND THAT ESO IS NOT REAL LIFE AND DO THE KIND OF THINGS THAT MAKE US HAPPY.

Those who think griefing and humilating ppl makes you happy, rethink that idea!

Long post is long post, ramble on is ramble on. Most importantly don't make claims things like you being semi-fat and racing against Usain Bolt without backing them up. Especially if you not even going to get the numbers right. His current record is 9.58s not 8.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_100_metres_world_record_progression

MaxwellC

Yesterday was a prime example why this DPS meter is needed because I knew they were doing horrible DPS but I couldn't out-right call them out.

Yesterday for consoles the pledge was VCOA now to me this dungeon is easy and I can tank or DPS this dungeon at levels that I get praise from others for it. I joined a group and a healer did via activity finder and we were at the ash titan because the two DDs had completed up to that far with their previous group (which was fine but a bit concerning to me). We wiped 4 times on ash titan and they continually blamed me even though I maintained and took all agro available and blamed the healer even though their DPS was pro-longing the fight to the point I needed to activate 3 ultimates (I don't activate my ultimate 'corrosive armor' until it's actually needed). DD would die and tell me to res the healer while tanking ash and his to air titans lol pretty difficult if you don't have corrosive armor.

We get to skoria and this is where I'm like man for a veteran 6 this healer is on POINT as a mf. All DDs keep getting wrecked since they couldn't kill him before he blew up the final platform and when I showed them a spot to stay at so they wouldn't take any flame damage but could DPS the boss they still died. They started blaming the healer but agreed that I was a "Monster like tank" since I showed them after everyone died while I was the last remaining I was able to take on 10+ Ads while receiving skorias damage for over 2 minutes. Then DDs wipe again and healer + me the tank is alive yet they blame the healer and for me I'm sitting their not blocking getting hit by all adds as this healer is keeping me alive through-out it all like a BOSS.

Sad part is the veteran 6 was convinced it was his fault but I told him over and over "Mate you've got it on point trust me you heal like a boss they just suck". This was obviously done through a message as moments after they booted him and I decide tell them "Jeez that healer was good but you guys need to work out your build, seeya mate."
These instances shouldn't be the norm.

kuro-dono

quoting myself with tiny twist by removing word> "whatever i remember the difference was not 4-5x but something acceptable"

I am confident you could have corrected my sentence in your own head aswell and rethink of the meaning, but you could not bother.

Anyway!

quote of mine implies that those numbers i gave out werent exact, and if i had to make such an big deal about the numbers i coulda have googled and rechecked and think of the time what i had, since it was damn good time i had when i was in high school.

i said nothing about world record either? never implied anywhere near his top time or something along those words? See, here we have lord toxic yet again.

yet another update to the time difference in 100m run. if i run 15 sec run and he does 10 sec, i am 50% slower or he 50% faster than me right? so. that difference is not compatible to the dmg difference of 4-5x am i right again? 50% is HUGE difference for bad and elite of same age and near same physical build, but n00b dps of lets say... 13k vs elite dps of 20k. which is very humble since i lowered elite dps while boosted n00b dps and the difference here is... 65% its just barely anywhere near normal. This what i am trying to detail to you is that the dmg rate in this game is out of control. utterly and completely.

dday3six

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Yesterday was a prime example why this DPS meter is needed because I knew they were doing horrible DPS but I couldn't out-right call them out.

Yesterday for consoles the pledge was VCOA now to me this dungeon is easy and I can tank or DPS this dungeon at levels that I get praise from others for it. I joined a group and a healer did via activity finder and we were at the ash titan because the two DDs had completed up to that far with their previous group (which was fine but a bit concerning to me). We wiped 4 times on ash titan and they continually blamed me even though I maintained and took all agro available and blamed the healer even though their DPS was pro-longing the fight to the point I needed to activate 3 ultimates (I don't activate my ultimate 'corrosive armor' until it's actually needed). DD would die and tell me to res the healer while tanking ash and his to air titans lol pretty difficult if you don't have corrosive armor.

We get to skoria and this is where I'm like man for a veteran 6 this healer is on POINT as a mf. All DDs keep getting wrecked since they couldn't kill him before he blew up the final platform and when I showed them a spot to stay at so they wouldn't take any flame damage but could DPS the boss they still died. They started blaming the healer but agreed that I was a "Monster like tank" since I showed them after everyone died while I was the last remaining I was able to take on 10+ Ads while receiving skorias damage for over 2 minutes. Then DDs wipe again and healer + me the tank is alive yet they blame the healer and for me I'm sitting their not blocking getting hit by all adds as this healer is keeping me alive through-out it all like a BOSS.

Sad part is the veteran 6 was convinced it was his fault but I told him over and over "Mate you've got it on point trust me you heal like a boss they just suck". This was obviously done through a message as moments after they booted him and I decide tell them "Jeez that healer was good but you guys need to work out your build, seeya mate."
These instances shouldn't be the norm.

True, they shouldn't be. Though that is not simply a matter of tracking DPS. It's the conflict of trying to provide both Single Player TES and Group content MMO experiences in the same game. The two are radically different. My personal opinion is that part of the issue with balancing not only group content, but also classes is that players are too free make poor build choices.

kuro-dono

Action > Rebalance and instruct softcaps. Baddies and goodies stop being ***/egowarriors. Give baddies reasonable way to become better than average and for elites, learn to understand, this is game not real life, you dont need to be so much superior than the scrubs and just enjoy the bloody game. RNG jesus is obviously harsh and makes you feel negative when you farm all the high end dungeons/trials and cant get your desired set pieces to make you even stronger than you are already and the content we talk about is the kind which 90% of playerbase cant complete? Just relearn to enjoy and get rid of the toxity. OH yes! Tone down Animation cancelling, you cancel skill, you cancel effect, very simple, whoever crying that it makes battle feel clumsy and slow without is full of that stuff that comes out of my cute wee thingy i sit top on.

That part of the wall of text shows you 3 changes into whole game dps/heal/tank change to make it reasonably easy for ppl to do without having minmax builds.

Rebalance game accordingly without animation cancelling.
Soft caps, so that minmax builds wont be thing either so that Burst is not the meta but mechanics and survivality
Third HAVE FUN

NewBlacksmurf

I personally don't see how this helps anyone other than looking at ways to "elite" or "exclude" others from participation. We all have scrolling combat text so this provides all sources of damage, healing in and out for the player. What another person is doing.....is on them. It's very obvious without any meters if there is a participation concern that can either be addressed by adjusting skills used or by gear upgrades.

FYI: ZOS has addressed this on ESO live in prior episodes that it's not something they hope to offer or develop. Specifically, this was removed for group info to an extent via add-on capabilities.
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info85-Recount.html

API changes - https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/20v372/319_api_changes_that_basically_gut_any_addons/

http://tamrieljournal.com/eso-news-roundup-restrictions-to-addons/

Iluvrien

Humatiel wrote: »

This addon is very much geared toward casuals to point out to them in a nonjudgmental manner that they aren't utilizing there full potential.

I just love that you think that such an addition to the game (DPS counters) would be used in a non-judgemental way...

... I've got nothing to say that could rebut that level of personal fantasy.

Knightpanther

Scraelos wrote: »

Knightpanther wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

On PC with add-ons you can have a DPS counter that tells you the amount of DPS you pull. As of now on console and PC without the use of add-ons (which is exclusive to PC only) you can now see the numbers of damage you do on enemies so my thing is why not make it so you can add those numbers up for a DPS counter. This will help you improve on builds and give accurate build information even on theory-crafting.

Many people want to know how much DPS another pulls for dungeons and trials so alongside making it available without add-ons how about we allow all players to see it too (those who are in the group). This will also help players improve their DPS as some may think they're doing good DPS when it's their team-mates pulling the deeps. Maybe if possible we can have a weekly top DPS saved to your character alongside with top damage absorb/heals done which could save a lot of "If you're not this level or have enough CP you're booted".

-Discuss

DPS meters are for idiots who spend their time trying to look good without a care for the group they are in or learning the mechanics of a fight.

Be safe

Best mechanic is to skip mechanic using high DPS.
Players, who care about killing stuff quickly are idiots? is this some kind of stupid joke?

No Joke mate, been a raid leader in every game ive played (except this), banned dps meters from the set off.
The less people try to top dps meters and concentrate on the mechanics of the fight the more progress you make as a group/guild.
I have nearly 20 years experience to prove it.

Be safe

Schemering

I have been playing a lot with some new and inexperienced players recently and THE best question i got was how do i test my dps in a testing environment so i can take time to see what skills combined would work well. Unfortunately i had to tell there was no such thing. The player asking is a fast learner and capable of doing own analysis but has no way of doing that by himself.

The game has been nerfed almost to death to make all content accessible to all new players but the many new players that are truly interrested in learning and improving are not helped doing so whereas the ones that, like @Woeler described, walking around with double bow hybrid vampire pet sorcerers are given the misleading impression theyre doing fine...until they join a group.

The current situation is causing irritation, bad moods and deteriorating relationships between players and its not the bow-petsorcs fault neither of the experienced endcontent players that end up in a dungeon or guild with them. Its caused by a race to rockbottom that was intended to let all be able to play together but resulted a mood of not wanting to play with unknown players or anger and disbelief when playing 'together' with one of those double bow hybrid vampire pet sorcerers.

If Zos wants to improve cooperation and general mood in the game in-game info about mechanics and test settings are a very good idea imo.

dday3six

kuro-dono wrote: »

quoting myself with tiny twist by removing word> "whatever i remember the difference was not 4-5x but something acceptable"

I am confident you could have corrected my sentence in your own head aswell and rethink of the meaning, but you could not bother.

Anyway!

quote of mine implies that those numbers i gave out werent exact, and if i had to make such an big deal about the numbers i coulda have googled and rechecked and think of the time what i had, since it was damn good time i had when i was in high school.

i said nothing about world record either? never implied anywhere near his top time or something along those words? See, here we have lord toxic yet again.

yet another update to the time difference in 100m run. if i run 15 sec run and he does 10 sec, i am 50% slower or he 50% faster than me right? so. that difference is not compatible to the dmg difference of 4-5x am i right again? 50% is HUGE difference for bad and elite of same age and near same physical build, but n00b dps of lets say... 13k vs elite dps of 20k. which is very humble since i lowered elite dps while boosted n00b dps and the difference here is... 65% its just barely anywhere near normal. This what i am trying to detail to you is that the dmg rate in this game is out of control. utterly and completely.

Ok, so you're comparing a time you posted in High School, is that what happened? Ultimately it doesn't matter, and here's how I see it. It's not connected meaningfully to a discussion about damage in ESO, and it smacked of being disingenuousness. I also found it a bit insulting to the dedication and training of olympic athletes. 10s is an olympic quality time, that's why I mentioned Bolt's current record. To brazenly declare you while semi-fat, or out of shape, or whatever still put up olympic quanlity times was just unwarrented, and still until proven otherwise remains unfounded.

Humatiel

Iluvrien wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

This addon is very much geared toward casuals to point out to them in a nonjudgmental manner that they aren't utilizing there full potential.

I just love that you think that such an addition to the game (DPS counters) would be used in a non-judgemental way...

... I've got nothing to say that could rebut that level of personal fantasy.

I love that you think critiquing a character equates to critiquing them as a person. That level of immersion is one that I am not familiar with but I imagine its quite unhealthy, furthermore it must be an excessively stressful way to play.

jzholloway

A DPS / HPS counter for yourself would be great - not showing what everyone else is doing, just yourself. Have it so it can be toggled.

LadyNalcarya

kuro-dono wrote: »

BALANCE was the word i used. So the balance between means that there is something like this between bad and elite>>

scrub, semi-okay, knows what he is doing, good, very good, damng good, elite and so on. So if you are average, you are way better, more op than bad, when you are elite, you are...? catch what i mean. i used word between, so there is anything between bad and elite.

BALANCE means that average folks have reasonable chance to become / be as good as elite, while the lower end folks are mostly doomed.

So if game with elite endgame stuff the scrubs obviously will cry that mommy!!!! i cant beat this, then the elites go and tell them to l2p, guess what? thats pretty toxic. For some reason folks have no patience to teach properly to ppl, they have no intrest improving them and at same time those scrubs/noobs/baddies too lazy to learn. again very toxic on everyones side.

I bet majority of the so called elites have had someone to tutor them in previous games and in this game and so on, which is awesome, but at some point, the teaching practice dies off and nobody does anything to improve relationships between bads and good. so bads stay BAD and goods just become more and more out of control then they end up crying more elite stuff and more this and that. Baddies beg for nerfs which they mostly get since game makers totally useless to improve healthiness of gaming community and yet again players themself at great fault that relationships are so poor.

I been always wondering, why the hell above average guys have so huge need to be so much far above the normal ppl? I mean we are talking about entertainment here! this isnt bloody olympics, this is supposed to be here to entertain us and give us nice way to spend time into. Instead we have these forums filled with scrubs this, scrubs that, and elites this, elites that.

Obviously, everyone doesnt need to wear exact same gear, exact same stats, exact same dps, but come on, the difference is atm way too huge. Your scrub dd:s when they perform at their best do maybe 8-10k dps? and elites do these days....??? 30-40k? the difference of... 4-5x is not acceptable.

Reality check, in real life, being semi fat, i lost to usain bolt in 100m run by 2-3sec out 10 sec of mine and his 8 sec whatever i remember it was the difference was not 4-5x but something acceptable. BTW! we have same day birthday + same year so cant blame age difference or anything.

Back to this Between Bads and goods>>>

This game. no matter what ppl say is screwing up community as an community big time by allowing animation cancelling + and giving us Champion points as in= The dmg and the quality difference between bad builds vs elite builds is just ridiculous.

With next dlc if they let ppl see your total cp there is more than before ppl left out of dungeon runs unless something miraculous happens.
I run Semi well organized guild, of best 100 pvp/pve folks online, maybe 5-10% is the kind of quality who would be counted as an elite, they rarely help our scrubs with anything anymore, only if i am myself asking, very nice!

Anyway our scrubs, i keep teaching them all dungeons and trials except veteran maw of Lorkhaj or sanctum. I tell them of specific skills, what will improve their survivality, dps wise i give ideas but not forcing them to change their builds unless something too impossible. Doing for example White gold tower with them oh the joys watching them unable to burst dps.

Most important thing what elites could do is openly stop beign so closed coffeeclub in this game and help more of the scrubs and teach mechanics. I do myself mechanics teaching as much as i can, but what the hell one man alone can do?
I know there is plenty of ppl teaching but even that is not anywhere near enough.

OBVIOUSLY round 2 the baddies are quite awful in their language aswell, but it doesnt really help if you yourself as an better than average player who want to give them advices go and tell it in terms like l2p or check youtube or slot this and that skill and stop this and that. Those folks need time to learn.

To summary my wall of text to 4 points>

READ THIS PART READ THIS PART READ THIS PART READ THIS PART
READ THIS PART READ THIS PART READ THIS PART READ THIS PART

Situation in eso> difference/balance between bads and goods too HUGE

Task> Cut off the huge dmg difference, rebalance dungeons, never again allow ppl to pull 4-5x more dmg than others unless they just seriously dont do anything else but light attacking and oh yes! SOFTCAPS jesus why the hell zeni removed softcaps is beyond madness.

Action > Rebalance and instruct softcaps. Baddies and goodies stop being ***/egowarriors. Give baddies reasonable way to become better than average and for elites, learn to understand, this is game not real life, you dont need to be so much superior than the scrubs and just enjoy the bloody game. RNG jesus is obviously harsh and makes you feel negative when you farm all the high end dungeons/trials and cant get your desired set pieces to make you even stronger than you are already and the content we talk about is the kind which 90% of playerbase cant complete? Just relearn to enjoy and get rid of the toxity. OH yes! Tone down Animation cancelling, you cancel skill, you cancel effect, very simple, whoever crying that it makes battle feel clumsy and slow without is full of that stuff that comes out of my cute wee thingy i sit top on.

Result> When dmg contest is no more thing, and tanking is again reasonable in dungeons/trials due to them becoming reasonable challenge to the rest of the team to handle and make tank life easier we have more playerbase who can actually complete game content. No more just elites bragging and scrubs being jealous and begging for nerfs. No more horrible Griefers who make it so damn toxic. and scrubs have more reason to motivate to become better than average joe.

+++

PVP wise this all is even more obvious, since i do lot more pvp than pve i know that there is handful of monster players who make it utterly miserable for baddies to learn and handle. How someone can learn something from it when this 2h hero comes and whack you once and you dead but oho! i got hit by 3-5 skills but saw nothing but that sword swing? The excuses of lagg and the bad being drunk affected by drugs and thinking it all happened in 10 sec instead of 1-3 sec are again bile of... that stuff that comes second time out of my wee thingy. This was just one example>

How about these griefers with their unlimited resources able to handle loads of ppl, teleport and cloak away for all eternity?
very frustrating and toxic to baddies and obviously these folks doing this are feeling miserable in real life, but eh this is again entertainment for us, not way to harash ppl mentally, since physicly we cant unless the person is doing to themself something to ease the pain in the head.

Tank builds able to handle 20 ppl without any sort of issues? Yeah i know. these wonderful things called poisons are coming to ruin each of these griefer/toxic type folks, but jesus how i fear that its yet another backfiring attempt to improve the game, which i hope will get major tone down, but until then, it will be there to make gaming miserable for many many ppl.

AND ONE MORE TIME> THIS IS GAME, ENTERTAINMENT FOR US HUMAN BEINGS! NOT PLACE TO GRIEFE OTHERS, BE SOME EGO, OR *** TO ANGER PPL.
WE ARE ALL HUMANS AND GET HURT AND ANGRY ALL THE TIME BUT LETS TRY TO PRETEND THAT ESO IS NOT REAL LIFE AND DO THE KIND OF THINGS THAT MAKE US HAPPY.

Those who think griefing and humilating ppl makes you happy, rethink that idea!

I agree that there's way too much aggression on these forums.
As for dps... Thing is, you dont have to have 30-40k even for burning strategies in dungeons. And you can reach around 20 with less than perfect race and less than perfect gear, which is enough for all burning strategies in all dungeons and even all old trials. Dps higher than that is only required for top spots on leaderboards and vMoL (which is supposed to be THE hardest content), so I dont see what's the problem.
And I agree about helping others. Though its not truth that hardcore players are not willing to help. If you check Tamriel Foundry, you will see build guides written by members of the top guilds, and many helpful videos, and everyone can ask for advice. Though, despite popular opinion, not everyone in these guilds is a no-lifer, so their playtime is limited and they cant possibly guide everyone in game. But there's also many social guilds who arrange training trial runs...
There's a huge issue on these forums, people seems to confuse "pug elitists" who copied someone's build and think they are awesome enough to bully others, with good players. I can tell you one thing - this is a team game and you have to be a team player. So from my point of view, if someone has a nice build, but they dont want to put any effort in teamwork, they're not that awesome. And btw, this is not going to work in the hardest raid in game, which proves that the devs have similar opinion on this matter.

Jaronking wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

many good games die when toxity level is at certain level and the balance between bads and elites too high. .

In this game, its a result of having content that is either too easy or too hard for average players.
Also, just in case... dont assume that people who kick everyone and act rude are automatically "elite". Copying someone's build doesnt make then "elite", and most likely they're not even good at playing said build. Most of players from top raiding guilds are actually quite friendly (but ofc its unlikely to meet them in pugs).

Do you mind if I ask how does Hodor recruit new players?I doubt you usually use the group finder or have members run in Pug groups when they have a amazing guild of raiders around.So how do you as a Guild recruit new players and members to your guild.

Raiding guilds usually have websites or recruiting topics on tamrielfoundry or these forums, so people can apply to these guilds.
Speaking of meeting new people in general... Well, you can join 5 guilds, and almost everyone uses all 5 spots.Trade guilds, pvp guilds, social guilds, all this kind of stuff. I really love my guild and my raiding group, they are awesome players and awesome people. But that doesnt mean I wont talk to people who arent in guild or play with them.

Iluvrien

Humatiel wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

This addon is very much geared toward casuals to point out to them in a nonjudgmental manner that they aren't utilizing there full potential.

I just love that you think that such an addition to the game (DPS counters) would be used in a non-judgemental way...

... I've got nothing to say that could rebut that level of personal fantasy.

I love that you think critiquing a character equates to critiquing them as a person. That level of immersion is one that I am not familiar with but I imagine its quite unhealthy, furthermore it must be an excessively stressful way to play.

Not for me. I gave up on raiding a few years back. Not because I couldn't hack it, but because I realised that the constant grind (usually gear) to stay on top of the curve was sapping all enjoyment for the content itself. That wasn't about being immersed in a character, because tweaking your numbers so you can get that last few points has nothing whatsoever to do with actually playing a character. Some people love it, more power to them. Take the fun where you can get it, I say. But the group-wide feature of what was suggested here isn't about you looking at your own output... it is about looking at other peoples'. That is about being judgemental of others, character or no. And that can take a long walk off a short pier.

You want to watch other people's numbers? Run with your mates, who you know will be watching their own numbers like hawks. You run with randoms? Take what you get and offer helpful advice if they a) ask for it or b) look to be doing something so fundamentally egregious that they are imperiling themselves even more than you.

You say it is an easy read to manage even without the addition of add-ons or DPS counters. Excellent. Stop asking for it then. You still get to give your advice and can do so without increasing the toxic atmosphere of this game. Everyone wins.

Asmael

Not a console player, but you can't maximize your efficiency without DPS trackers. Not denying that some people could get kicked because of that (tho I have never seen this happen once in hundreds of dungeon runs, very often with random groups).

FTC, for instance, allows me to know over a few fights how much % of my damage is due to DoTs, how much is physical, fire, magic... And spread CPs accordingly.

A prime example as a stam DK with DB is whether you want to stick to your usual DD set (Hundings in this example) or use the coming Morag Tong set which increases your poison damage by 15%. Since Hundings increase your global damage by slightly more than 5%, you know you need to pick Morag Tong as soon as your poison damage makes for more than 35% DPS of your total DPS (not counting other bonus sets, this is just an example).

Good luck doing that by hand.

As far as I'm concerned, the same people that would have kicked you with DPS trackers would do it even without it.

Refuse2GrowUp

Knightpanther wrote: »

Scraelos wrote: »

Knightpanther wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

On PC with add-ons you can have a DPS counter that tells you the amount of DPS you pull. As of now on console and PC without the use of add-ons (which is exclusive to PC only) you can now see the numbers of damage you do on enemies so my thing is why not make it so you can add those numbers up for a DPS counter. This will help you improve on builds and give accurate build information even on theory-crafting.

Many people want to know how much DPS another pulls for dungeons and trials so alongside making it available without add-ons how about we allow all players to see it too (those who are in the group). This will also help players improve their DPS as some may think they're doing good DPS when it's their team-mates pulling the deeps. Maybe if possible we can have a weekly top DPS saved to your character alongside with top damage absorb/heals done which could save a lot of "If you're not this level or have enough CP you're booted".

-Discuss

DPS meters are for idiots who spend their time trying to look good without a care for the group they are in or learning the mechanics of a fight.

Be safe

Best mechanic is to skip mechanic using high DPS.
Players, who care about killing stuff quickly are idiots? is this some kind of stupid joke?

No Joke mate, been a raid leader in every game ive played (except this), banned dps meters from the set off.
The less people try to top dps meters and concentrate on the mechanics of the fight the more progress you make as a group/guild.
I have nearly 20 years experience to prove it.

Is that on your Link'dIn profile? Resume? Something your brag to girls about on the net when hoping to someday meet a real girl? You will have to forgive me, but I have no idea what such a statement aims to prove?!

Simply, DPS matters. It matters in dungeons, it matters in vMSA, and it certainly matters in difficult group content like vMoL and (soon) vSanctum. DPS absolutely matters as most content has a DPS check and auto-wipe mechanic if you cannot burn quickly enough... i.e. islands in vCoA, the sun in AA, pillars on the first boss in MoL. If a group lacks the burn, they will fail to clear the hardest content in the game. Simple as that.

That said, high dps is only part of the equation. A high DPS parse gets your foot in the door with competitive trials guilds. You are then evaluated by your ability to pick-up and adhere to mechanics, your ability to adapt to the team's strategies, your ability to stay out of the red, stay alive, and keep your rotation up, and generally your ability to fit in with said team because team synergy and symmetry matters. If you are constantly cursing your team mates on the first boss of vMoL or cannot grasp running a certain rotation on the second boss to avoid collisions, it doesn't matter what your DPS is, and the whole 'the dead do zero dps' statement certainly holds weight.

But still, DPS matters. And a blanket statement like "DPS meters are for idiots who spend their time trying to look good without a care for the group they are in or learning the mechanics of a fight" simply shows you to be a fool. Because all other arguments aside, something like an FTC report isn't only to prove your parse to others, but also to help understand your own damage and better your own DPS rotation/build.

Katahdin

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Been asked before. Didnt they disable that ability in one addon already?

No thanks

No, they didn't because they can't. As long as you know the damage you do it's very easy for an addon to calculate dps. In addition, because you can assume the tank and healer do little damage, you can still get an accurate estimate of the other DD's average dps with some simple math.

Yes they did. Check the post below the one you the one you quoted:

Lenikus wrote:

There was one Addon, called group damage, i believe.
It tracked info on the mob's health and informed with some precision how much damage (%) was done by each player, and in how long (dps).

They removed the data from the game which rendered any addon that tries to track any damage information that is not your own could no longer work.
The feature to track damage that you yourself doesn't interfere with is non-existent. And they stated the decision was made to prevent 'elitism' and/or generic toxic behaviour towards more casual players.

ZoS absolutely can do that.
It was discussed by the devs in the patch notes.

NordSwordnBoard

I look at this differently. I think if a dps counter is optional and has limited time its tracking before you reset it means you have it available to experiment your equip without having a constant scorecard in the dungeon. If it was a manual switch deep in the menu it could stop people from constantly watching dps progress, but allow people to know for themselves what they can do/have done and maybe prove some opinions wrong about their current set up and what it can do.

If people pre-judge you harshly and boot, you most likely wont enjoy playing with them to begin with. My low tolerance for bs keeps me free from a lot of the conflict mentioned above. I know that's just my experience, but not considering a game improvement because it will make poor sports worse isn't a valid reason to effect all people.

LadyNalcarya

kuro-dono wrote: »

trying to make sense to you is hard. How about this, my high school mate, wee bit younger than, me, captain of football team.
Exact same time. again i am wee bit fat, but none less damn good runner. been always proud of my feet even tho my belly side been balloonish.

The point of usain bolt and my difference it to point out that difference between baddie and elite should not / cant be

the kind of difference eso atm has between bad and elite.

You are cabable of talk about usain polt before he become jesus super star right? he was not olympic runner in high school. stop being toxic moron, and no, i am not slacking here usain bolt.

When i was in high school same time as he, i was my school top 1 shared position as being fast and usain possibly equally fast in his school. after that it took few years when i finished school and entered working ppls world that he went for full sport mode so the cap between us as an runners got huge.

So back into eso land>>

Baddies and elites there should not be 20-30k difference or 4-5x difference in dmg, try to understand this from the point of entertainment not SPORT.

Leaderboards are like sports. And its fun for some people to maximize their char's effectiveness.
For the rest of the game 15-25k dps is enough for all content except vMoL. If someone cant finish WGT/ICP with this kind of dps, dps is not their problem.
If you want to show off, put some effort in it. Though its absolutely not nessesary, its just something extra if you're after top scores.