Meaningful input discussion 2.4.2 Block cost reduction champion tree change.

Ivan04

This change was made to disallow OP med armor permadodgerollers (which are still inevitable) to also be able to block like 2.3 HA tanks by combining Sturdy and Well-fitted together. This seriously is a very lazy change, we expected good things to come out of trait changes, but we didn't ask for pigeonholing tanks into using sturdy and wasting a lot more resources on using stam/mag abilities, basically stam DK that likes both PvP and tanking in the dungeons is fricking ruined with is change. Champion system was well-balanced and now it has to adapt to trait changes. Guess what, ZOS, I don't care about the fricking armor traits, let them be useless for all I care, armor is not supposed to matter this much! Just give me back Bracing and my normal Champion system and be done with it, you can have the Wrath passive back, thank you. When it was mentioned on ESO Live that ZOS would give some love to stamina in this update I didn't expect it to be some hardcore dry butt love.

Tonnopesce

Anyway with the current difficulty of the game ( except SO and MOL ) nobody who tanks will have problems with this change i believe.

Still a bad change imho.
Now if i tank i cannot do nothing else, if i want to go in pvp i probably have to spend 3k gold to respec the CP, every time... is going to cost me an arm and a leg.

Tonnopesce

Something that i want to put in in terms of "balance" now with this changes with my stamplar i can have acces to max stamina recovery, almost max stamina reduction cost and max reduction to roll doge cost... i will be roll doging to a keep to another without ending the stamina.
Gj zos as usual....

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

They really don't understand tanking. Tanking is about resource management and blocking. It is not about a ton of health and resistance (it help but is not the core of tanking).

Placing shield cost reduction in the green line where all your resource management champ abilities are already placed is just a plain nerf to tanks.
It would be the same as placing damage bonus and healing bonus in the green champ points too.

But no ZoS think that physical and spell resistance is the most important Stat for a tank
and it isn't. Thus they are harming tanks while they probably think they are helping
which is kind of sad.

Tdroid

I wonder: Medium Armor being the new go-to armor style for tanks? I mean, it does provide 3/4 of the base-armor, with much better stamina management. Then there is the new well-fitted trait...

Dodge-roll tank, anyone?

code65536

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

They really don't understand tanking. Tanking is about resource management and blocking. It is not about a ton of health and resistance (it help but is not the core of tanking).

Placing shield cost reduction in the green line where all your resource management champ abilities are already placed is just a plain nerf to tanks.
It would be the same as placing damage bonus and healing bonus in the green champ points too.

But no ZoS think that physical and spell resistance is the most important Stat for a tank
and it isn't. Thus they are harming tanks while they probably think they are helping
which is kind of sad.

ZOS doesn't play their own game, at least not with a level of competency where they would understand issues like this. That's been the source of so many problems.

Silver_Strider

Tdroid wrote: »

I wonder: Medium Armor being the new go-to armor style for tanks? I mean, it does provide 3/4 of the base-armor, with much better stamina management. Then there is the new well-fitted trait...

Dodge-roll tank, anyone?

I feel that Medium Armor tanking is going to take over as the norm, even in trials, if this change goes thru.

Lets look at it with these suggested changes.

You can make Medium Sturdy Armor now, thus gaining the benefit HA once granted in block cost reduction.
You can invest into Spell shield and Medium Armor focus to a point in which you also unlock Shield Expertise, making up a margin of the defensive differences between HA and MA to almost a moot point, while HA users would be forced to invest into Spell Shield (which doesn't help considering that HA users are typically able to hit hard cap in Spell Resistance very easily) Resistance (which is only useful in PvP) and Elusive (which is an all around USELESS passive)
You already gain a 12% increase in weapon damage in Medium Armor, which more or less equates to the full benefit of the new Wrath Passive HA got.
You already have tons of passive resource management from using Medium Armor so the loss of your CP aren't as heavy on you as it would be for a HA user so you can more freely invest into block cost reduction whereas a HA user will have a harder time with resource management due to HA offering no real resource management apart from constitution which has a 4 second cooldown between each resource return. While this might be alright for solo boss fights, that isn't always the case. Sometimes you will have multiple enemies attacking you at once (such as the "Gauntlet" boss fights in MoL with wave after wave of mobs coming) that constitution will not get you thru alone. You really start noticing the burn on these fights and without the CP for block reduction AND skill point reduction, you are feeling that burn all the more on your resources. Engine Guardian is so fickle that relying on it for resource management is just begging for problems in the long run.

I'm already tempted to make Medium Hist Bark, in anticipation of these changes should they go live.

Shadesofkin

I consider PvP to be the land of mouth breathers, enduring it only to achieve skills or gear that I feel I *must* have to continue my beloved PvE content. This change smacks of catering to said mouth breathing realm and really bothers me. (BTW I'm aware that there are good solid people who play PvP but I run into a lot of people who aren't good or nice or solid, they're just cranky and nasty)

I use those regen trees and those skill cost reduction trees, now I'm literally forced to either run Sturdy (economically stupid considering how vital a good mundus choice can be and how important Infused and Divines are) or give up my regen and cost reduction for the sake of being able to block once again, meanwhile I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to spend points into for that 75 benefit for shields in the Steed. A *good* PvE DK tank does not need spell shield, he hits cap with one click of his Hardened Armor and is smart enough to always have enough magicka to keep it up.

I suppose my Medium Tava's Favor Tank will get a boost...but that doesn't actually instill me with confidence for running against the Mantikora or the Serpent where my blocking will be vital.

Jhunn

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I consider PvP to be the land of mouth breathers, enduring it only to achieve skills or gear that I feel I *must* have to continue my beloved PvE content. This change smacks of catering to said mouth breathing realm and really bothers me. (BTW I'm aware that there are good solid people who play PvP but I run into a lot of people who aren't good or nice or solid, they're just cranky and nasty)

Pff.

Noone asked for this change. Not PvP'ers, not PvE'ers.

Cinbri

I understand why PvErs don't want this change but i don't understand why PvPers don't like it. Do you guyz even tried play pts and tested all new possible CP builds that were buffed by this change or just read patchnotes and were like "it ruin my old build - i don't like it".

RoamingRiverElk

Well hey, at least one can now put 100 CP in bastion on a mag dk. That is, if I felt like playing after the new poisons hit and rob me of my resources so totally that I might as well not play.

Cinbri

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Well hey, at least one can now put 100 CP in bastion on a mag dk. That is, if I felt like playing after the new poisons hit and rob me of my resources so totally that I might as well not play.

My Ritual is here for you :P

Personofsecrets

Well said @Lucius_Aelius

GoodOlPinkly

GazettE wrote: »

Its like dealing with a demon, you want something, ok you get it. But in exchange u need to give up something. Nothing is free

Equivalent exchange its the true law of alchemy.