Dark Brotherhood Combat Changes

karakondzula

The only thing i kinda dislike is Heavy armor going in offensive direction. To be honest i would rather have it more tanky or sustainable. Right now on PTS main problem with it is it has to rely on heavy attacks to survive, constitution is not enough.

I really like the idea of using heavy attacks for sustain but they are just way too slow to be able to return decent amount of resources, easy to avoid, and somehow miss (especially in melee) if you don't aim correctly, unlike regular active skills who have semi auto aim.

If you could decrease the wind up time for heavy attacks by 20% (or 30% for 2 hander cuz its ludicrously long) and make them more likely to hit that would be great for both heavy armor and skills that require fully charged heavy attacks (like molten armanents).

Anyway i'm joining those who said these are best combat patch notes we had in a while. Cheers!

Jsmalls

dagonbeer wrote: »

@Wrobel Thank you for the write up. We might disagree (me from an armchair designer's perspective), but I certainly appreciate your hard work and communication!

Regarding shields, I like the idea of having major/minor type wards to prevent shield stacking the best. However, if the design team is set on balancing via duration, I have two main concerns:

1) PvE. I believe this change was made primarily to balance PvP, but it also affects PvE, from casual questing to vMA. Would you consider making the 2/3rd reduction to shield duration a Cyrodiil thing (along with half damage, extra hp, etc.?) This also a quality of life issue, since having constantly refresh shields (or any buff) is not fun. Also hurts use of pets, particularly in dungeons.

2) Sorc uniqueness. I understand trying to get the player to choose offense/defense in order to tone down sorcs, but the buff to annulment/bone shield baffles me. Every other class has unique survival tools (dks - battle roar/wings/tankiness, temps - heals/cleanses, nb - HoTs/stealth/fear, stam classes - evasion/dodge) but they suddenly all gained what used to be unique to sorcs, while one of the sorc's defining skills is made completely redundant, and gained nothing in return.

In fact, the other classes will gain far more from the new shields, in combination with reflects, (reliable) heals, evasion, etc.

Bonus petition!

If you're looking into improving PvE, I hope you look into replacing Bound Armor. We need the bonuses from Bound Armor to be close to competitive, however, it's no fun having toggles in the bar instead of active skills. Ideally you can roll the bonuses into a passive of sorts, and give us something fun in place of Bound Armor.

This this and more this. I feel like every Sorc is distracted by the 6 second duration.

THIS right here is the serious problem

Zheg

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

@Wrobel Thank you for the write up. We might disagree (me from an armchair designer's perspective), but I certainly appreciate your hard work and communication!

Regarding shields, I like the idea of having major/minor type wards to prevent shield stacking the best. However, if the design team is set on balancing via duration, I have two main concerns:

1) PvE. I believe this change was made primarily to balance PvP, but it also affects PvE, from casual questing to vMA. Would you consider making the 2/3rd reduction to shield duration a Cyrodiil thing (along with half damage, extra hp, etc.?) This also a quality of life issue, since having constantly refresh shields (or any buff) is not fun. Also hurts use of pets, particularly in dungeons.

2) Sorc uniqueness. I understand trying to get the player to choose offense/defense in order to tone down sorcs, but the buff to annulment/bone shield baffles me. Every other class has unique survival tools (dks - battle roar/wings/tankiness, temps - heals/cleanses, nb - HoTs/stealth/fear, stam classes - evasion/dodge) but they suddenly all gained what used to be unique to sorcs, while one of the sorc's defining skills is made completely redundant, and gained nothing in return.

In fact, the other classes will gain far more from the new shields, in combination with reflects, (reliable) heals, evasion, etc.

Bonus petition!

If you're looking into improving PvE, I hope you look into replacing Bound Armor. We need the bonuses from Bound Armor to be close to competitive, however, it's no fun having toggles in the bar instead of active skills. Ideally you can roll the bonuses into a passive of sorts, and give us something fun in place of Bound Armor.

This this and more this. I feel like every Sorc is distracted by the 6 second duration.

THIS right here is the serious problem

You heal from your mines, and I'd say streak is pretty unique. Yes, temps have heals, but blessing of resto is pretty close to BoL for your own heal, and our "cleanses" are down to 2 now, making purge the better option because of the magicka recovery.

CP5

Zheg wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

@Wrobel Thank you for the write up. We might disagree (me from an armchair designer's perspective), but I certainly appreciate your hard work and communication!

Regarding shields, I like the idea of having major/minor type wards to prevent shield stacking the best. However, if the design team is set on balancing via duration, I have two main concerns:

1) PvE. I believe this change was made primarily to balance PvP, but it also affects PvE, from casual questing to vMA. Would you consider making the 2/3rd reduction to shield duration a Cyrodiil thing (along with half damage, extra hp, etc.?) This also a quality of life issue, since having constantly refresh shields (or any buff) is not fun. Also hurts use of pets, particularly in dungeons.

2) Sorc uniqueness. I understand trying to get the player to choose offense/defense in order to tone down sorcs, but the buff to annulment/bone shield baffles me. Every other class has unique survival tools (dks - battle roar/wings/tankiness, temps - heals/cleanses, nb - HoTs/stealth/fear, stam classes - evasion/dodge) but they suddenly all gained what used to be unique to sorcs, while one of the sorc's defining skills is made completely redundant, and gained nothing in return.

In fact, the other classes will gain far more from the new shields, in combination with reflects, (reliable) heals, evasion, etc.

Bonus petition!

If you're looking into improving PvE, I hope you look into replacing Bound Armor. We need the bonuses from Bound Armor to be close to competitive, however, it's no fun having toggles in the bar instead of active skills. Ideally you can roll the bonuses into a passive of sorts, and give us something fun in place of Bound Armor.

This this and more this. I feel like every Sorc is distracted by the 6 second duration.

THIS right here is the serious problem

You heal from your mines, and I'd say streak is pretty unique. Yes, temps have heals, but blessing of resto is pretty close to BoL for your own heal, and our "cleanses" are down to 2 now, making purge the better option because of the magicka recovery.

"Heal from mines," ie the 8% (sorry, in pvp 4%) max health heal that has an internal cool down. And with all of the gap closers everywhere streak sometimes is bad to use.

Zheg

CP5 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

@Wrobel Thank you for the write up. We might disagree (me from an armchair designer's perspective), but I certainly appreciate your hard work and communication!

Regarding shields, I like the idea of having major/minor type wards to prevent shield stacking the best. However, if the design team is set on balancing via duration, I have two main concerns:

1) PvE. I believe this change was made primarily to balance PvP, but it also affects PvE, from casual questing to vMA. Would you consider making the 2/3rd reduction to shield duration a Cyrodiil thing (along with half damage, extra hp, etc.?) This also a quality of life issue, since having constantly refresh shields (or any buff) is not fun. Also hurts use of pets, particularly in dungeons.

2) Sorc uniqueness. I understand trying to get the player to choose offense/defense in order to tone down sorcs, but the buff to annulment/bone shield baffles me. Every other class has unique survival tools (dks - battle roar/wings/tankiness, temps - heals/cleanses, nb - HoTs/stealth/fear, stam classes - evasion/dodge) but they suddenly all gained what used to be unique to sorcs, while one of the sorc's defining skills is made completely redundant, and gained nothing in return.

In fact, the other classes will gain far more from the new shields, in combination with reflects, (reliable) heals, evasion, etc.

Bonus petition!

If you're looking into improving PvE, I hope you look into replacing Bound Armor. We need the bonuses from Bound Armor to be close to competitive, however, it's no fun having toggles in the bar instead of active skills. Ideally you can roll the bonuses into a passive of sorts, and give us something fun in place of Bound Armor.

This this and more this. I feel like every Sorc is distracted by the 6 second duration.

THIS right here is the serious problem

You heal from your mines, and I'd say streak is pretty unique. Yes, temps have heals, but blessing of resto is pretty close to BoL for your own heal, and our "cleanses" are down to 2 now, making purge the better option because of the magicka recovery.

"Heal from mines," ie the 8% (sorry, in pvp 4%) max health heal that has an internal cool down. And with all of the gap closers everywhere streak sometimes is bad to use.

No one is saying it's optimal, hell, I'm a templar, I know all about broken skills/passives and problems with class balance. But it's disingenuous to assert that sorcs have nothing unique to them. Even in laggy situations, I'd love to have streak on my templar.

Runkorko

Wrobel wrote: »

Heavy Armor doesn’t make you an unkillable fortress, and wearing all light armor doesn’t make you a piñata.

Wearing all light armor does make you a piñata
(unles you are sorc)

Strider_Roshin

This is the most balanced I've seen in the game yet. Now the main difference between the two play styles of Magicka vs Stamina, is that magicka has stronger heals, and better resource management. Whereas stamina is better at dodge rolling, and CC breaking. Now that everyone has a damage shield, every kind of player can be competitive in both PvP and PvE.

I would like to address this statement however: "Ultimately, we want to see you commit to being either offensive or defensive when using damage shields, instead of both simultaneously."

You see these damage shields scale off of your max damaging stat, and therefore by design you don't need to commit to being either defensive or offensive because with the way these damage shields scale; you can definitely have both. Therefore now that everyone has a damage shield, I think it's more important than ever to make them crit-able.

PainfulFAFA

Fix stam sorc plz

Drummerx04

Sallington wrote: »

Don't tell anyone, but I bought 5/5 well-fitted shield breaker set for <12k the day they dropped patch notes. I'm about to double the world's salt supply.

Fantastic. At least those pesky sorcs can't keep their only defense up while wandering cyrodiil or IC out of combat to hopefully not get ganked. It's not like there are sets pointedly aimed at murdering sorcs with unparalleled efficiency or anything.

KenaPKK

Why is most of this discussion centered around PvE combat?

Also is Clouding Swarm getting fixed? This is players' main concern with vampirism right now. Well, that and the very small number of skills in the vampirism line.

WTB magicka morph of Dragon Leap.

Strider_Roshin

KenaPKK wrote: »

Why is most of this discussion centered around PvE combat?

Also is Clouding Swarm getting fixed? This is players' main concern with vampirism right now. Well, that and the very small number of skills in the vampirism line.

WTB magicka morph of Dragon Leap.

Because most ESO players are into PvE, not PvP.

Sugaroverdose

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Why is most of this discussion centered around PvE combat?

Also is Clouding Swarm getting fixed? This is players' main concern with vampirism right now. Well, that and the very small number of skills in the vampirism line.

WTB magicka morph of Dragon Leap.

Because most ESO players are into PvE, not PvP.

Who said that?

Strider_Roshin

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Why is most of this discussion centered around PvE combat?

Also is Clouding Swarm getting fixed? This is players' main concern with vampirism right now. Well, that and the very small number of skills in the vampirism line.

WTB magicka morph of Dragon Leap.

Because most ESO players are into PvE, not PvP.

Who said that?

No one needs to say it, it's obvious.

PainfulFAFA

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Why is most of this discussion centered around PvE combat?

Also is Clouding Swarm getting fixed? This is players' main concern with vampirism right now. Well, that and the very small number of skills in the vampirism line.

WTB magicka morph of Dragon Leap.

Because most ESO players are into PvE, not PvP.

Who said that?

No one needs to say it, it's obvious.

Theyre losing players on both sides. Why else would they make cross-alliance raiding possible? Thats an indicator right there. Same thing with the campaign restrictions that they had also removed.


In other news, buff stam sorcs ~

Minalan

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Why is most of this discussion centered around PvE combat?

Also is Clouding Swarm getting fixed? This is players' main concern with vampirism right now. Well, that and the very small number of skills in the vampirism line.

WTB magicka morph of Dragon Leap.

Because most ESO players are into PvE, not PvP.

Who said that?

That's sort of where 95% of the content is. From Cadwells, to crafting writs, and the many dungeons and trials.

Cyrodiil and the sewers are practically a mini-game, and balancing that tends to ruin everything else. Badly.

RoamingRiverElk

Questions:

1. Did you fix DK chains so that they too work like the other charges? Did you remove the height restrictions and the fact that chains don't take you to the player if the player dodges the charge? ("For player abilities, reliability is our top priority. We have continued to improve the reliability and responsiveness of charge abilities (specifically Focused Charge, Critical Charge, Shield Charge) over the past few updates.")
2. If you do not want homogenization, how come you just gave *everyone* a strong damage shield? ("We also wanted to maintain the diverse range of shield strengths in the game to avoid homogenization.")
3. If you do not want homogenization, how come blocking is still in its considerably nerfed state for PvP? Either blocking needs to become cheaper the more hits your are getting per second, or investing in stamina regen should help with it. Also, "Damage shields are extremely powerful because they allow you to build your character fully towards offense while still retaining a strong defense." That's not what is happening with magicka DKs in PvP ever since you nerfed blocking, igneous shield, dynamic ultimate, and dragon blood.

There are still very few magicka DKs in PvP, and most of the best ones still play other class combinations because magicka DK does not compare to stamina DK, magicka sorc, or nightblade. They do not have the survivability other classes have while the other classes can retain high offense.

And once again, if you consider the mistform and harness magicka changes a buff to magicka DK, those buffs are available to all other classes as well. The magicka DK in PvP continues to be ignored once again, and is completely at the mercy of other changes to the game and other, non-class skill lines.

Jsmalls

Zheg wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

@Wrobel Thank you for the write up. We might disagree (me from an armchair designer's perspective), but I certainly appreciate your hard work and communication!

Regarding shields, I like the idea of having major/minor type wards to prevent shield stacking the best. However, if the design team is set on balancing via duration, I have two main concerns:

1) PvE. I believe this change was made primarily to balance PvP, but it also affects PvE, from casual questing to vMA. Would you consider making the 2/3rd reduction to shield duration a Cyrodiil thing (along with half damage, extra hp, etc.?) This also a quality of life issue, since having constantly refresh shields (or any buff) is not fun. Also hurts use of pets, particularly in dungeons.

2) Sorc uniqueness. I understand trying to get the player to choose offense/defense in order to tone down sorcs, but the buff to annulment/bone shield baffles me. Every other class has unique survival tools (dks - battle roar/wings/tankiness, temps - heals/cleanses, nb - HoTs/stealth/fear, stam classes - evasion/dodge) but they suddenly all gained what used to be unique to sorcs, while one of the sorc's defining skills is made completely redundant, and gained nothing in return.

In fact, the other classes will gain far more from the new shields, in combination with reflects, (reliable) heals, evasion, etc.

Bonus petition!

If you're looking into improving PvE, I hope you look into replacing Bound Armor. We need the bonuses from Bound Armor to be close to competitive, however, it's no fun having toggles in the bar instead of active skills. Ideally you can roll the bonuses into a passive of sorts, and give us something fun in place of Bound Armor.

This this and more this. I feel like every Sorc is distracted by the 6 second duration.

THIS right here is the serious problem

You heal from your mines, and I'd say streak is pretty unique. Yes, temps have heals, but blessing of resto is pretty close to BoL for your own heal, and our "cleanses" are down to 2 now, making purge the better option because of the magicka recovery.

Being forced into a resto staff isn't ideal, and BoL is sooo much better. Annulment is in the light armor tree so it can be freely placed on any bar. Imagine having a BoL added to the mages guild skill like, or wings/stealthing added to the undaunted skill line.

Streak is nice, but it's a waste of a hard cc (1.5 seconds...) And does minimal damage. And it can't be used to escape anymore so it's been losing its luster, not to mention using it lets the other players spam gap closers at us. Certainly not something that helps define our class like our Ward had.

Make dark exchange/dark deal a reliable heal / class defining ability, because right now I don't know anyone who slots it after you nerfed it from scaling off resources.

Xsorus

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

@Wrobel Thank you for the write up. We might disagree (me from an armchair designer's perspective), but I certainly appreciate your hard work and communication!

Regarding shields, I like the idea of having major/minor type wards to prevent shield stacking the best. However, if the design team is set on balancing via duration, I have two main concerns:

1) PvE. I believe this change was made primarily to balance PvP, but it also affects PvE, from casual questing to vMA. Would you consider making the 2/3rd reduction to shield duration a Cyrodiil thing (along with half damage, extra hp, etc.?) This also a quality of life issue, since having constantly refresh shields (or any buff) is not fun. Also hurts use of pets, particularly in dungeons.

2) Sorc uniqueness. I understand trying to get the player to choose offense/defense in order to tone down sorcs, but the buff to annulment/bone shield baffles me. Every other class has unique survival tools (dks - battle roar/wings/tankiness, temps - heals/cleanses, nb - HoTs/stealth/fear, stam classes - evasion/dodge) but they suddenly all gained what used to be unique to sorcs, while one of the sorc's defining skills is made completely redundant, and gained nothing in return.

In fact, the other classes will gain far more from the new shields, in combination with reflects, (reliable) heals, evasion, etc.

Bonus petition!

If you're looking into improving PvE, I hope you look into replacing Bound Armor. We need the bonuses from Bound Armor to be close to competitive, however, it's no fun having toggles in the bar instead of active skills. Ideally you can roll the bonuses into a passive of sorts, and give us something fun in place of Bound Armor.

This this and more this. I feel like every Sorc is distracted by the 6 second duration.

THIS right here is the serious problem

You heal from your mines, and I'd say streak is pretty unique. Yes, temps have heals, but blessing of resto is pretty close to BoL for your own heal, and our "cleanses" are down to 2 now, making purge the better option because of the magicka recovery.

Being forced into a resto staff isn't ideal, and BoL is sooo much better. Annulment is in the light armor tree so it can be freely placed on any bar. Imagine having a BoL added to the mages guild skill like, or wings/stealthing added to the undaunted skill line.

Streak is nice, but it's a waste of a hard cc (1.5 seconds...) And does minimal damage. And it can't be used to escape anymore so it's been losing its luster, not to mention using it lets the other players spam gap closers at us. Certainly not something that helps define our class like our Ward had.

Make dark exchange/dark deal a reliable heal / class defining ability, because right now I don't know anyone who slots it after you nerfed it from scaling off resources.

Streak is not only a really good escape its your main setup for your Burst.

hrothbern

"All 3 armor types must be desirable......"
I agree very much with that !

And after decoupling Block Cost reduction from the HA passives, with Bracing removed from HA, it will be challenging to find the sweet spot for HA. Now that HA on her own merits is less desirable by builds that Block frequently or a lot.
BTW
I love the direction taken to move HA further onward to a base platform to rig up a Hybrid build


So for HA on her own merits...

I made a deep dive Math to find out in how far the Resource sustain of HA is now comparable viable with LA and MA.
The Resource sustain of HA Constitution has a fundamental different nature because it is a flat sustain and hybrid with two stats, compared to the mainly percentual sustain and one-stat nature of LA/MA.

My conclusion is that the Constitution sustain does not give good enough access to the more expensive abilities needed to be a more viable and desirable choice.
The break even ability cost between Resource sustain of HA and LA/MA are roughly 2100, and I am of the opinion that this break even needs to be shifted up to around 2700, also considering the significant increase of ability costs in the PTS.

Deep dives for the other HA buffs like Wrath will perhaps come later.

Here below my post including the specific logic, details and Math in another thread (I do not know if you only read your official thread, or all threads):

hrothbern wrote: »

Constitution needs in my opinion still a further buff:

Comparing Resource sustain between HA and LA,MA:

The Constitution passive gives a flat recovery, whereas LA/MA give mainly a percentual cost reduction and a smaller flat recovery.
In order to make a comparison, this wall of Math is therefore aimed at calculating for what amount of ability costs there is a break even between HA and LA,MA.
For abilities higher than that break even, the percentual cost reduction of LA and MA will always favor LA and MA above HA.
Bear also in mind that the ability costs have been increased in PTS.

Important note:
The HA Constitution passive gives both Magicka as Stamina restoration.
IF you use only Magicka or only Stamina abilities, the hybrid recovery purpose of Constitution will NEVER be really valuable for you !



The first assumption to be made is how to handle the hybrid resource regain of Constitution (Mag + Stam) so that we get a "like for like" with the mono Resource sustain of LA or MA.

The easiest way to do that is by conforming to the already by ZOS used method for hybrid features.
Those are Food (tri-stat, two-stat and one-stat), Drinks (same) and for example the bonus for Spell & Weapon Damage used in the Black Rose set.

If we normalise the values of Food and Drinks, and put the one-stat value at 100,
you get for Food:
one-stat: 100/---/---
two-stat: 80/80/---
tri-stat: 67/67/67
The same ratios are used for Drinks.
So the total stat increase effect for Food is for tri-stat 200, compared to 160 of the two-stat and 100 of the one-stat.
Hybrid and tanky-Tank builds use tri-stat. Focussed/stacking DPS/HPS builds use two-stat.
And apparently ZOS and everybody of the playerbase is comfortable with this method of giving BOTH dimishing returns PER stat for the more Hybrid Food, but also giving a higher overall total.

The same happens more or less with the hybrid Black Rose set if we compare that for example with the Kagrenac's hope set.
Black Rose has a 5 piece bonus for a damage effect of 154 more Spell AND Weapon Power, besides a second effect of increasing Constitution.
Kagrenac's hope has a 5 piece bonus for a Damage effect of 224 more Spell Power, besides a second effect of the 25% rezz time and the Magicka regain when an ally is rezzed.
If you divide the 154 by the 224 you get 68%.
So if you normalise that, you either get the one-stat bonus of 100 or two times 68 for Mag and Stam. (there is no Health Power)

So....
Ignoring Health and Health recovery aspects of Food and Drinks, because Constitution is about Magicka and Stamina only, 2x67 should be converted in 1x100
ZOS has done the same with the Black Rose set. They applied 2x68 in Black Rose instead of 1x100 in Kagenac.

Applying this to convert the two-stat Constitution bonus to a one stat, I think it is justified to say that we must take 67-68 as base to convert Constitution to a one stat recovery.
So if Constitution gives 186 per piece per 4 seconds of Stamina AND Magicka.
Then the converted value is (100/67*186) = 279 Magicka OR Stamina per piece per 4 seconds.
That is: Converted to one-stat Constitution this gives during combat per piece of HA Armor 70 Magicka per second OR 70 Stamina per second.

If you take for example one piece of LA, you get 4% Magicka Recovery, during combat and out of combat and you get 3% Cost reduction.
When your base Magicka Recovery would be around 700, the 4% per piece deliver 28 Magicka Recovery. When you have 71 CP in Arcanist for 20% more recovery, you get 34 Magicka Recovery per piece of LA, which is 17 Magicka per second.

Assuming for the sake of simplicity that you cast 1 ability per second:
If the 3% Cost reduction from one piece of LA gives (70 -17) = 53 Magicka Cost reduction, you have a break even between Constitution and LA passives.
1 divided by 3% = 33.3. So we have this break even, when abilities used have an average cost of 1766.
Assuming that you have put 100 CP, the rest of your 171 CP, in Magician for 16% Cost reduction:
The break even takes place at (1766/84%) = 2102.

Concluding:
LA or MA are better in Resource sustain than HA, if the average base value costs of your abilities per second casted are higher than 2102 !


In my opinion that break even point has to be shifted up from 2102 to 2700 minimal.
That means that the to one-stat converted Constitution must deliver 86 Magicka or Stamina per second.
Or that the unconverted two-stat Constitution must deliver 57.6 Magicka AND Stamina per second.
This is 230 per piece instead of the PTS value of 186 per piece, or a 24% increase of the PTS value.

But my suggestion to increase the PTS Constitution value is ofc a personal opinion and open for debate, where the break even ability costs used in practice are pivotal.

Here below the PTS base costs of some abilities, which are BTW increased compared to live !

Puncturing Sweeps: 2952
Reflective Light: 2700
BOL: 4590
Grand Healing: 3510
Regeneration: 2160
Force Shock:2700
Uppercut: 3240
Strife: 1367
Assassins Blade morphs: 1890 Magicka or 1511 Stamina
Veiled Strike morphs: 2700 Magicka or 2160 Stamina
Sap Essence: 3240
Burning Embers: 1350 Magicka
Lava Whip: 2700
Dragon Blood/Inhale/Earthen Heart: >4000
CrystalFragments: 4050 (2025)
Liquid Lightning: 3510
Conjured Ward: 3510

EDIT:
although this post is aimed at analysing the comparable viability of the three Armor types.
You can also boil it down to a very practical conclusion that if you love to walk around in HA, you just have to make a build that is using on average cheap enough abilities in the basic rotations, whereby the PTS buff of Constitution gives you already more Resource sustain and allows for a wider choice of sets.

NBrookus

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Streak is nice, but it's a waste of a hard cc (1.5 seconds...) And does minimal damage. And it can't be used to escape anymore so it's been losing its luster, not to mention using it lets the other players spam gap closers at us.

Streak is very useful. In a prolonged large battle, I can streak out of the thick of it toward a healer/healing springs or away long enough for my Healing Ward to pop. I can streak to a healer or another player that's being pressured and needs help. I can streak through a blob and stun them long enough for an ult bomb to go off. It's also super useful for crossing water without swimming and faster harvesting.

What streak CAN'T do is escape any player with a gap closer pressuring you. You can't catch a fleeing player... not if you want to have any magicka to do anything when you get there. Nor can you escape a Wrecking Blow with it.

(It needs the cost to be un-nerfed, but that's a different topic.)

MikeB

In short, ZOS still doesn't have a clue after 2+ years of live and 7 in Dev (imo)

Anazasi

Anyone else feel stam builds are really strong? The DPS is unbelievable in comparison to magic damage. Maybe I'm just weak but base magic damage around 2600 vs weapon damage around 5k just seems imbalanced. I can run around in 5 heavy and be one shot killed? I'm just saying it seems like every DLC this game shifts dramatically to one or the other. Also, when I compare sets it seems like there are always more stamina sets than magic sets. What's up with that? I guess when there are more stamina sets introduced that means the meta is changing to favor stamina builds? I'm just frustrated with the balance as I see it on pts. Of course there are really no X v X fights its all 1 v 1 and I hate solo play in that regards.

Strider_Roshin

Anazasi wrote: »

Anyone else feel stam builds are really strong? The DPS is unbelievable in comparison to magic damage. Maybe I'm just weak but base magic damage around 2600 vs weapon damage around 5k just seems imbalanced. I can run around in 5 heavy and be one shot killed? I'm just saying it seems like every DLC this game shifts dramatically to one or the other. Also, when I compare sets it seems like there are always more stamina sets than magic sets. What's up with that? I guess when there are more stamina sets introduced that means the meta is changing to favor stamina builds? I'm just frustrated with the balance as I see it on pts. Of course there are really no X v X fights its all 1 v 1 and I hate solo play in that regards.

Yeah you're pretty weak. There's not much of a difference in DPS between the two builds to be honest (in the PTS). The highest DPS is still done by the magicka sorc, with the stam DK coming in second. You're right about the weapon damage vs spell damage comparison though. Stamina does have an easier time getting their weapon damage high. However, magicka has an easier time getting their spell damage high, so it balances out. Magicka still has better resource management though. But overall, the gap in DPS between the two builds has definitely gotten a lot tighter. Also magicka by far, has the better item sets.

pema

Can we see a change in de rolldodge cost, this is still an issue. Ie sanctum it's the best way to avoid the quackes.

PainfulFAFA

Stam sorcs are still incomplete. Plz fix them.

Personofsecrets

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Questions:

1. Did you fix DK chains so that they too work like the other charges? Did you remove the height restrictions and the fact that chains don't take you to the player if the player dodges the charge? ("For player abilities, reliability is our top priority. We have continued to improve the reliability and responsiveness of charge abilities (specifically Focused Charge, Critical Charge, Shield Charge) over the past few updates.")

@Wrobel DK chains is not fixed............. been waiting minimum 9 months now.

code65536

@Wrobel Regarding my earlier comment about the problem of Constitution not scaling well with the number of attackers, resulting in scenarios where tanks are in a much worse resource situation than before (e.g., vMoL bannermen pulls or vICP's Overfiend with his multi-hit Flurry and multiple adds), I have one additional proposed solution:

Replace Rapid Mending with Bracing, and reduce Constitution's resources for blocked hits (while leaving it as-is for unblocked hits). This restores the status quo resource management for tanks, particularly in multi-target scenarios, while also enabling the more offensive role that HA could play with Wrath+Constitution.

dpencil

@Wrobel As a player with only one Vet character (a magsorc) I am very invested in seeing Sorceres get consideration and improvement. I have been PVPing a lot lately, and it is pretty frustrating when other classes either dodge all of my attacks, are always cloaking, or constantly putting up reflective wings. Probably 60-70% of my attempts at damaging opponents results in my losing resources while they take no damage. Meanwhile I have to eat every single attack that is thrown at me. I get to streak, but only a couple times. I get a shield, but soon so will everyone else, and mine will be so much shorter with no cost reduction. I get pets, but no healthbar in the UI and still have to slot them on every bar, aside from other ways in which they generally underperform. Our class needs some serious attention. I hope you will release more changes based on community responses and recommendations before DB goes live. I know it's tough to make everyone happy all the time, but certainly many of the concerns that have been raised by others on the forums have merit and are worth consideration.

Of particular note:
- Sorcs need a spamable damage skill (not Mages Wrath or Crystal Frags) so as not to be totally reliant on weapons for that (like Force Pulse or Wrecking Blow), preferably in mag and stam versions.
- Sorc shield duration should be longer than others by a lot. It is one of the things that makes our class unique and is our only means of preventing damage. Specifically important for PVE to have extended duration. Sorcs are expected to keep shields up 100% of the time. If shield stacking is the problem, make shields use the major/minor buff system.
- Pets need healthbars in the UI. They need to have stats that scale off of champ points, etc. They really should be 1 bar only skills. (If not permenantry on after summoning, give them a 5 minute duration or something)
- Bound Armor should act like Inner Light. Give us the option to have it on just 1 bar if we want and add an active effect.
- Overall dps for Sorceres (not using overload) should be compared to the other classes and adjustments made to our base skill values to bring us up to par with the other classes. I am well geared and know my class well, but my normal single target dps is only around 15k in PVE, and much lower in PVP where most of my attacks get dodged. (of course if I land every attack and nuke them with some proxy/curse/wrath combo dps for that second will be high, but I'm talking about sustained battles, in which we woefully fall behind)

Thanks for seriously considering these concerns and suggestions!

Sleep

I think Wrobel is doing great if he's hired by competitors to destroy this game.

Cuyler

Rylana wrote: »

Like dont get me wrong, I am a hardcore PvPer, I only PvE when I need something (undaunted, a drop, some XP, a skillpoint from an undone vet dungeon quest, etc). I may not be a paragon of knowledge of all things Dungeon, but what I do know, is the few times a month I run dungeons, I barely ever have to cast my shields except v bosses and only if healer sucks. Otherwise its just DPS spam and dont stand in stupid (usually overload/curse/procfrag/entropy shenanigans). I really dont see how a six second shield is honestly going to hurt PvE at all. All dem dere pro 30k DPS sorcs just throw hardened ward on their overload bar, hit it in between overloads, no real DPS loss.

It won't hurt, ppl just be scrubs and like to complain. If your in an instance where a shield is actually required ie. solely PvP, vMA, lamia team then you're taking consistent damage and refreshing your shield frequently anyhow. This is a non-issue.