Trait redesign -- what happens to existing items?

Delegator

I like the new trait designs for the most part. However, because some of the traits have completely changed I have to wonder what will happen to existing items with the current traits (or current versions of traits that are being modified instead of added to). For example, many magicka players will have nirnhoned on their dual wield weapons because of the spell penetration and spell resistance. The change to make this a weapon damage trate is worthless in most of those cases because a magicka templar or sorc or even nightblade may never use a single weapon skill. In those cases, that's a pretty hard nerf -- and an expensive proposition to acquire 2 new weapons with the right traits and up to 8 gold tempers a piece. (Not to mention the difficulty of finding the right replacements if you are using a dropped set like Vicious Death instead of a crafted one).

Other changes aren't as difficult to deal with (e.g. most people using Exploration will easily transition to Training). But for traits used on end-game items, I think some questions arise.

Will there be any way for characters to re-trait items under the new system? Or to choose whether they want the new versions of traits that are being modified or even replaced wholesale?

Reorx_Holybeard

Yah...I was thinking the same thing, particularly for my new DK tank. It seems as thought the best "tanking" traits have completely changed which means my 10 gold quality items might need to be remade. We'll see if they amount of change makes it worth while to do so, but still...ouch!

Leandor

I do hope the change to nirnhoned means that the weapon base damage is increased, which will also grant added spell damage.

MissBizz

I'm thinking exactly that same thing as previously magicka abilities that are now "magically" stamina abilities.

Nothing - they just change and you need to foot the bill.

Alcast

I actually must say I like most changes to traits. Actually, I am surprised they got it together like that...

tinythinker

MissBizz wrote: »

I'm thinking exactly that same thing as previously magicka abilities that are now "magically" stamina abilities.

Nothing - they just change and you need to foot the bill.

Probably, though a traveling Arcanist who shows up like the chef did with the cake who can change an item's enchantment would have been nice Something that you could only summon once but use on as many items as possible.

But yeah, people will likely need to re-craft their gear.

code65536

Nirnhoned now grants 11% extra item damage at CP160 gold.

So my nirnhoned staff now has an item damage tooltip of 1481 instead of 1335. I.e., Nirnhoned will add 146 extra weapon/spell damage. In contrast, Sharpened increases penetration by 5160 at CP160 gold.

I'll leave it to @Asayre to determine what the best is, but I have a feeling that Sharpened is now better than Nirnhoned for weapons.

tinythinker

Alcast wrote: »

I actually must say I like most changes to traits. Actually, I am surprised they got it together like that...

New traits are nice, having to craft new gear if you want to change traits in the new system, not so nice...

Tarrin

"Training" is the best for CP grinding now.

Morimizo

Edit: redundant post

Leandor

I'm very interested in the impenetrable changes, since, you know, no durability decrease in PvP and no crits in PvE? Or did I miss something and we will go broke even faster in PvP?

SublimeSparo

Leandor wrote: »

I'm very interested in the impenetrable changes, since, you know, no durability decrease in PvP and no crits in PvE? Or did I miss something and we will go broke even faster in PvP?

Zos logic

SanTii.92

code65536 wrote: »

Nirnhoned now grants 11% extra item damage at CP160 gold.

So my nirnhoned staff now has an item damage tooltip of 1481 instead of 1335. I.e., Nirnhoned will add 146 extra weapon/spell damage. In contrast, Sharpened increases penetration by 5160 at CP160 gold.

I'll leave it to @Asayre to determine what the best is, but I have a feeling that Sharpened is now better than Nirnhoned for weapons.

No, 5160 penetration is for big pieces while the 11% from nirn is for small ones. You have to compare 22% extra spell and weapon dmge vs 5k penetration. Which will result, in my un-tested opinion, fairly even while in some cases it would be better to have nirn and in others sharpened (and maybe even precise).
This rebalance was very much needed.

Leandor

sAnn92 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Nirnhoned now grants 11% extra item damage at CP160 gold.

So my nirnhoned staff now has an item damage tooltip of 1481 instead of 1335. I.e., Nirnhoned will add 146 extra weapon/spell damage. In contrast, Sharpened increases penetration by 5160 at CP160 gold.

I'll leave it to @Asayre to determine what the best is, but I have a feeling that Sharpened is now better than Nirnhoned for weapons.

No, 5160 penetration is for big pieces while the 11% from nirn is for small ones. You have to compare 22% extra spell and weapon dmge vs 5k penetration. Which will result, in my un-tested opinion, fairly even while in some cases it would be better to have nirn and in others sharpened (and maybe even precise).
This rebalance was very much needed.

There are no big/little weapons in this game. Just saying.

phaneub17_ESO

Leandor wrote: »

I'm very interested in the impenetrable changes, since, you know, no durability decrease in PvP and no crits in PvE? Or did I miss something and we will go broke even faster in PvP?

My guess is they want the trait useful globally not just for PvP, that way if you make a set with impen it's not completely useless when you're doing the PvE grinding especially if you're melee and getting hit a lot.

Xsorus

Leandor wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Nirnhoned now grants 11% extra item damage at CP160 gold.

So my nirnhoned staff now has an item damage tooltip of 1481 instead of 1335. I.e., Nirnhoned will add 146 extra weapon/spell damage. In contrast, Sharpened increases penetration by 5160 at CP160 gold.

I'll leave it to @Asayre to determine what the best is, but I have a feeling that Sharpened is now better than Nirnhoned for weapons.

No, 5160 penetration is for big pieces while the 11% from nirn is for small ones. You have to compare 22% extra spell and weapon dmge vs 5k penetration. Which will result, in my un-tested opinion, fairly even while in some cases it would be better to have nirn and in others sharpened (and maybe even precise).
This rebalance was very much needed.

There are no big/little weapons in this game. Just saying.

Technically there is

You see if you have a two hander you will get either 5160 pen or 22% increased weapon damage

11% is for 1 handed weapons which if ya have two you get 22% increase

Leandor

Xsorus wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Nirnhoned now grants 11% extra item damage at CP160 gold.

So my nirnhoned staff now has an item damage tooltip of 1481 instead of 1335. I.e., Nirnhoned will add 146 extra weapon/spell damage. In contrast, Sharpened increases penetration by 5160 at CP160 gold.

I'll leave it to @Asayre to determine what the best is, but I have a feeling that Sharpened is now better than Nirnhoned for weapons.

No, 5160 penetration is for big pieces while the 11% from nirn is for small ones. You have to compare 22% extra spell and weapon dmge vs 5k penetration. Which will result, in my un-tested opinion, fairly even while in some cases it would be better to have nirn and in others sharpened (and maybe even precise).
This rebalance was very much needed.

There are no big/little weapons in this game. Just saying.

Technically there is

You see if you have a two hander you will get either 5160 pen or 22% increased weapon damage

11% is for 1 handed weapons which if ya have two you get 22% increase

So, what is penetration on 1H?

phaneub17_ESO

Leandor wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Nirnhoned now grants 11% extra item damage at CP160 gold.

So my nirnhoned staff now has an item damage tooltip of 1481 instead of 1335. I.e., Nirnhoned will add 146 extra weapon/spell damage. In contrast, Sharpened increases penetration by 5160 at CP160 gold.

I'll leave it to @Asayre to determine what the best is, but I have a feeling that Sharpened is now better than Nirnhoned for weapons.

No, 5160 penetration is for big pieces while the 11% from nirn is for small ones. You have to compare 22% extra spell and weapon dmge vs 5k penetration. Which will result, in my un-tested opinion, fairly even while in some cases it would be better to have nirn and in others sharpened (and maybe even precise).
This rebalance was very much needed.

There are no big/little weapons in this game. Just saying.

Technically there is

You see if you have a two hander you will get either 5160 pen or 22% increased weapon damage

11% is for 1 handed weapons which if ya have two you get 22% increase

So, what is penetration on 1H?

2580

code65536

sAnn92 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Nirnhoned now grants 11% extra item damage at CP160 gold.

So my nirnhoned staff now has an item damage tooltip of 1481 instead of 1335. I.e., Nirnhoned will add 146 extra weapon/spell damage. In contrast, Sharpened increases penetration by 5160 at CP160 gold.

I'll leave it to @Asayre to determine what the best is, but I have a feeling that Sharpened is now better than Nirnhoned for weapons.

No, 5160 penetration is for big pieces while the 11% from nirn is for small ones. You have to compare 22% extra spell and weapon dmge vs 5k penetration. Which will result, in my un-tested opinion, fairly even while in some cases it would be better to have nirn and in others sharpened (and maybe even precise).
This rebalance was very much needed.

I don't know why you keep spreading this 22% misinformation on the forums.

It is always 11% at CP160 gold regardless of what weapon you are using.

The 1H/2H trait distinction matters only for traits that apply character-wide. Precise, sharpened, defending, etc., are traits that apply to your overall character. Nirnhoned increases the tooltip of that weapon.

Yes, for a 1H weapon, the effect of Sharpened is halved. A 2H staff will have 5160, and 2x 1H weapons will also have 5160 total.

In contrast, it's always 11% for nirnhoned, and it is an 11% increase for that weapon's tooltip. It is not an 11% boost to your overall SD/WD. For a staff, that's a mere 146 extra SD.

This isn't a "rebalance". This is far from it. This is one trait (Sharpened) that so overwhelming dominates all other traits (for DPS, at least) that you would be foolish to even consider any other trait.

code65536

Leandor wrote: »

I'm very interested in the impenetrable changes, since, you know, no durability decrease in PvP and no crits in PvE? Or did I miss something and we will go broke even faster in PvP?

On Live, Impen is currently a PvP-only trait, and Sturdy is a PvE-only trait. By combining the two, not only do they eliminate one mostly useless trait, but they make this new combined trait useful in both PvP and PvE (albeit for different reasons, with the PvE usefulness being rather marginal). It makes sense, and I think it's a good idea.

Necrelios

As it stands right now, on PTS it is a max of 11% damage increase from Nirnhoned for both two handed and one handed weapons, so apparently you can only get 22% for duel wielding. If you have a Ninrhoned staff you are only get 11% damage as opposed to 22% so Sharpened is probably the better option for two handed.

Asayre

@Necrelios you still don't get 22% from dual wielding. Dual wielding gives 100% of the main hand and 20% of the off hand. Without any traits you get 1602 (1335*1.2) with two nirnhoned weapons you get 1777 spell/weapon damage which is 1335*1.11*1.2

Necrelios

Asayre wrote: »

@Necrelios you still don't get 22% from dual wielding. Dual wielding gives 100% of the main hand and 20% of the off hand. Without any traits you get 1602 (1335*1.2) with two nirnhoned weapons you get 1777 spell/weapon damage which is 1335*1.11*1.2

Ah, good point. I didn't think about that. Well I'm glad somebody around here is paying attention .

Delegator

MissBizz wrote: »

I'm thinking exactly that same thing as previously magicka abilities that are now "magically" stamina abilities.

Nothing - they just change and you need to foot the bill.

Yeah, that would really suck because the cost of re-crafting gold gear is several multiples more than a complete skill respec (let along a morphs respec)

Xsorus

There is also using Torgs Pact with Infused Trait for fun with Poisons (this seems to be working..but its hard to test without mods)