NA PC BWB second attempt

Mjollo

@vamp_emily
The "Unspoken Rule" isn't official but more of a guideline to a healthy campaign. It isn't a requirement to follow but it's considered bad mannered if you don't respect it. It was a term created so that players always have a will to fight. The wisest players already know that the most ap comes from defending inner ring keeps anyways ( not including the farming of resources) since that's when the tension is at it's most.
The Unspoken rule was formed by mature players who had bad experiences in the past and were willing to set their childish feelings behind for one another in order to ensure the maximum amount of AP could be made. Its pure business. I fully support this agreement since I personally know what its like to play in that terrible situation.
My first emperorship on my main character was in Thornblade (May it rest in peace) where I spent 5 days and 4 hours asleep each day in a campaign where it was impossible to even capture a simple resource at farragut before the AD demon emp came running in at god speed to wipe entire zergs by himself. I actually had to call in a few favors from two other major EP guilds at the time to help depose him. That was the most exhausting accomplishment I've ever had to make for a video game and I decided I would make sure no one else would have to go through that hell as long as I have the influence to do so.
So you can ignore that "rule" all you want but when the days come that your faction gets put in this situation, I won't have any sympathy to spare.

ŞσƦѦ

It would be nice if factions actually meant something in this game. Multi-faction guilds, allowing players to create characters on more than 1 faction, etc really screws the pvp part of the game; players simply flip flop to the winning faction.

Adenoma

But it would prevent things like you hopping on your AD alt after your first DC emp to ask if you had broken AD's spirit. I think we deposed you a couple hours later though. But I think it was a daily cycle - you night capped and we prime time deposed after being held at gates all morning.

ŞσƦѦ

Adenoma wrote: »

But it would prevent things like you hopping on your AD alt after your first DC emp to ask if you had broken AD's spirit. I think we deposed you a couple hours later though. But I think it was a daily cycle - you night capped and we prime time deposed after being held at gates all morning.

Would be impossible since I deleted my AD toon when I created my DC toon (think before you make silly allegations, all of my toons except this newest one have had the same name).

Also, I'm not sure why you are proud that you zerged the map to death and dethroned someone... weird. Kinda like you zerg me down 20+ vs 1 then bounce on my character's mid section as if you are riding me (someone needs to teach you zergers how to tbag). I'm not sure if it will ever get through to you but winning based on numbers alone is not an accomplishment.

Thanks for admitting that a few players held you at gate until prime time though. At least you admit that you NEED the zerg to accomplish anything. Also note I'm usually spending time with my girlfriend and children during your "prime time" so I'm not even online. GG though.

Lumsdenml

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

It would be nice to see ZoS do what EverQuest 2 did and disallow players to receive pvp rewards if in a group of more than 6. That goes a long way in discouraging the plague that is zerging.

Capping in-game group size at 12 rather than 24 would help some too. Probably not solve it, as often the pugzergs are made up of several loose groups, but it would help.

Zos DID make some changes to AP gain so that you get more RFTW in a smaller group, as you make more AP, but that mechanism is obscure enough I doubt a lot of people factor it into their playstyle/decision process.

Hopefully the city capture mechanic spreads out the pugzergs a bit.

vamp_emily wrote: »

I think a lot of people on here are missing the problem. It isn't about zerging. It is more about Campaign Balance, flip flopping sides, and changing campaigns.

This certainly doesn't help. I will say, for the first time in a while, after AD crowned we just got hammered. It was pretty awesome. Didn't feel like the normal "Faction X emped, time to log on to faction X" nonsense.

Hey! Nice to be killed by you last night!

Lumsdenml

Adenoma wrote: »

I'm really interested to see all these strong feelings about wedding dresses on the forums. For the record, please holler at me too if anyone in our guild is T bagging or talking trash. I think I'm that bad cop foil to @DeadlyRecluse 's good cop. I've got that willing to kick from guild street cred.

On the note of tower farming - is it our fault you keep coming in? Is it wrong to set up a tactically advantageous scenario in a well-organized fashion? There are ways to move map for your faction that don't necessarily involve touting 1vX or zergs. Plus, we've got to get vigor for our toons somehow.

@Stridig - glad to hear you're enjoying small groups! I think I play best and have the most fun when running with 1-3 other people. Last night (partly because DC was fixated on holding Nikel) we had a small group and 5-manned Ash. It was a blast!

Sorry I'm reaching back on this one a bit, I never got a chance to respond to my "strong feelings" about the wedding dressers. Ultimately, they are mixed. I enjoy playing as part of a faction with faction goals. Take keeps, push for emp, defend keeps, and dethrone if opposing factions have emp. When I first saw the WD (wedding dressers), it seemed they didn't have the same goals on their side, especially when they tower farm. Personally, I hated them because they were annoying and they didn't push the map for their faction and the killed me A LOT!

As I've had more interaction with them, I feel a bit different. I have seen them pushing keeps, working the map, but still am a bit annoyed with the tower farm... but not nearly as much as before. I do wonder, however, how much the tower farm is a diversion tactic, and how much is it just to purely farm AP... Anyway, I see it more more as a challenge now, and it feels awesome when a group of us can go in and wipe them!

BTW, I still die a lot when we fight...

Lumsdenml

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

But it would prevent things like you hopping on your AD alt after your first DC emp to ask if you had broken AD's spirit. I think we deposed you a couple hours later though. But I think it was a daily cycle - you night capped and we prime time deposed after being held at gates all morning.

Would be impossible since I deleted my AD toon when I created my DC toon (think before you make silly allegations, all of my toons except this newest one have had the same name).

Also, I'm not sure why you are proud that you zerged the map to death and dethroned someone... weird. Kinda like you zerg me down 20+ vs 1 then bounce on my character's mid section as if you are riding me (someone needs to teach you zergers how to tbag). I'm not sure if it will ever get through to you but winning based on numbers alone is not an accomplishment.

Thanks for admitting that a few players held you at gate until prime time though. At least you admit that you NEED the zerg to accomplish anything. Also note I'm usually spending time with my girlfriend and children during your "prime time" so I'm not even online. GG though.

Just another thought on the zerg, but Sora, do you think you are trying to make the game something it is not? Everything I've heard and read from the developers has said that PVP is designed to be large scale battles. Zerg v zerg. There are a lot of people in Cyrodiil and in order to push objectives, you really need a zerg to do that. I truly appreciate that there are people who have the skill to run solo (or in 2-4 man groups) and be able to survive for extended periods of time and win most battles, even at long odds, but I think in the end, just like a real battlefield, numbers will win every time.

I would love to see some sort of 4 man pvp AvA arena, though... that would be a lot of fun... especially if it was located in a place where others running by could watch...

Stridig

The tower farm by the "Wedding Dressers" as they are called is often one of the best things a group of 6-10 can do for their faction. I have watched on more occasions than I can count, DC repeatedly running in to their death as another group of AD takes keep after keep. If DC has 2 bars of pop you can count on 1 of those bars being tied up at a resource getting farmed.

Lumsdenml

Stridig wrote: »

The tower farm by the "Wedding Dressers" as they are called is often one of the best things a group of 6-10 can do for their faction. I have watched on more occasions than I can count, DC repeatedly running in to their death as another group of AD takes keep after keep. If DC has 2 bars of pop you can count on 1 of those bars being tied up at a resource getting farmed.

Yeah... I've come to realize that it is a great tactic for drawing a faction away from defending a keep somewhere else, I'm just wondering how many times they are doing it for that reason and how many times it is purely an AP farm!

W0lf_z13

whether intended as a diversion or not... it def works as one... in the beginning i would charge in and die time after time just to get them out of "our area" now a days ( most of the time ) if i see them go in and a dc takes the flag i check the map, if another keep is flagged i go there instead.... although there are times this wolf gets in a playful mood and decides to go ahead and play their game to say hi to them lol ... i will say though... out of the ad guilds i do enjoy fighting the GoNB's the most... although sometimes bizarre maneuvers people seem to not notice the coordination the group has during the bizarre maneuvers

Adenoma

@Lumsdenml , I've actually been really turned off to tower farming lately. Generally, I only end up in a tower when we are at a resource from which we can flag a keep to cut transit.

Although Sora (can't do his @name while on my phone) says that I roll 24 man zergs, @Stridig is right that there really is a limit to how much a 4-8 man group can do. Numbers often do win out. A lot of the time we try to hold an outpost that we low-manned to prevent reinforcements or we hold the resource to pull numbers away from other conflicts.

Sora, I think many people will back me up when I say that I do not taunt people, nor do I let my guild members taunt people. I know we yelled at someone in guild TS after they T bagged you at Aleswell last night.

kit_sune

All the small groups of ad in bwb still get called servers just for the mere fact they are at a big fight. The group I run with is comprised of usually just 4 people and I have been accused of running zergs by folks on other factions. You have to understand there isn't a lot of small groups to do in this game right now that does not involve bigger groups. Sometimes it's the only place to find ongoing action without just ganking or tower farming

It just a matter of respecting each other and just accepting that zergs are part of the deal with this game until small group pvp instances are created. Until then please stop this measuring contest some folks seem to have.

On the subject of gate farming: not something you should be proud of and it was not just a few players, it was everyone on dc at the time

Lumsdenml

skepticalfox wrote: »

Until then please stop this measuring contest some folks seem to have.

Yeah, that would be a pretty short measure for me!

ŞσƦѦ

This is just a general response to those who keep making claims about how this game was designed for large scale zerg vs zerg pvp:

I don't really feel this game was DESIGNED to cater to players who enjoy zerging everything to death. I think the developers have acknowledged the negative effect zerging has in this game and have tried to combat the plague of zerging by introducing aoe caps, vicious death, etc.

I think there is room for all playstyles in open world pvp (which is sort of what cyrodiil is even though it is "in the box" instanced pvp) but there needs to be less benefits from zerging and more benefits from solo/small groups/normal sized groups. There is a reason that game developers do not allow raids to get credit from group content... why? Cause it's too easy.

Zerging is too easy and if you want to smash 20-50 people into 1 person you should gain rewards based on the difficulty of the challenge like you do in almost every other aspect of the game.

When you out lvl mobs in mmos you generally get no credit for the kill, no xp, no loot, no rewards, etc. When you trivialize group/heroic/raid content in mmos, you generally get no credit for the kill, no xp, no loot, no rewards, etc. When you do the same thing by zerging in pvp, you should also gain no rewards.

vamp_emily

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

This is just a general response to those who keep making claims about how this game was designed for large scale zerg vs zerg pvp:

I don't really feel this game was DESIGNED to cater to players who enjoy zerging everything to death. I think the developers have acknowledged the negative effect zerging has in this game and have tried to combat the plague of zerging by introducing aoe caps, vicious death, etc.

I think there is room for all playstyles in open world pvp (which is sort of what cyrodiil is even though it is "in the box" instanced pvp) but there needs to be less benefits from zerging and more benefits from solo/small groups/normal sized groups. There is a reason that game developers do not allow raids to get credit from group content... why? Cause it's too easy.

Zerging is too easy and if you want to smash 20-50 people into 1 person you should gain rewards based on the difficulty of the challenge like you do in almost every other aspect of the game.

When you out lvl mobs in mmos you generally get no credit for the kill, no xp, no loot, no rewards, etc. When you trivialize group/heroic/raid content in mmos, you generally get no credit for the kill, no xp, no loot, no rewards, etc. When you do the same thing by zerging in pvp, you should also gain no rewards.

Best post I've read on here. +1

Celestial_Rift

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Just another thought on the zerg, but Sora, do you think you are trying to make the game something it is not? Everything I've heard and read from the developers has said that PVP is designed to be large scale battles. Zerg v zerg. There are a lot of people in Cyrodiil and in order to push objectives, you really need a zerg to do that. I truly appreciate that there are people who have the skill to run solo (or in 2-4 man groups) and be able to survive for extended periods of time and win most battles, even at long odds, but I think in the end, just like a real battlefield, numbers will win every time.

@Lumsdenml - I agree with you. I think a lot of time people complain about the zerging but they don't see the big picture of what the game is and how it's advertised.

I've been going solo and small group more, but those large scale battles and the strategy behind it is what lead me to want to be in PVP. It wasn't about having the greatest build, the best armor, and the 1vX, it was about working with a group to accomplish a goal together. As I've "matured" in my PVP, I've started to care more about builds and all, but for the most part, your casual PVPer wants to run in a group, take some keeps, and move on. BWB is the starting point for most, so it's what you are going to see in its player base.

We really spend a lot of time going back and forth on who zergs, the culture of zerging, blah blah blah blah..... But let's be frank, everyone zergs, even the soloers. If you are running solo and you go to a keep defense, offense, bridge farm, whatever, and there's more than just you there, you are now a part of the zerg, regardless of your motives. You can't complain that you got zerged when you tried to one-man a keep/outpost/resource and a group came in response to the fighting. There isn't a notification that Player A is a soloist for people to identify, and in the heat of everything, you're going to get run down, especially if the game is more high stakes at that given moment. It's guilt by association... and people need to just be honest with themselves about that aspect of the game.

And an arena area would be awesome... where people could chose 1v1, 2v2, etc... hell even a 24 v 24 battle. Why not? Then there would be a place where Duelers and soloists could go and earn their own unique rewards and all.

Lumsdenml

Celestial_Rift wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Just another thought on the zerg, but Sora, do you think you are trying to make the game something it is not? Everything I've heard and read from the developers has said that PVP is designed to be large scale battles. Zerg v zerg. There are a lot of people in Cyrodiil and in order to push objectives, you really need a zerg to do that. I truly appreciate that there are people who have the skill to run solo (or in 2-4 man groups) and be able to survive for extended periods of time and win most battles, even at long odds, but I think in the end, just like a real battlefield, numbers will win every time.

@Lumsdenml - I agree with you. I think a lot of time people complain about the zerging but they don't see the big picture of what the game is and how it's advertised.

I've been going solo and small group more, but those large scale battles and the strategy behind it is what lead me to want to be in PVP. It wasn't about having the greatest build, the best armor, and the 1vX, it was about working with a group to accomplish a goal together. As I've "matured" in my PVP, I've started to care more about builds and all, but for the most part, your casual PVPer wants to run in a group, take some keeps, and move on. BWB is the starting point for most, so it's what you are going to see in its player base.

We really spend a lot of time going back and forth on who zergs, the culture of zerging, blah blah blah blah..... But let's be frank, everyone zergs, even the soloers. If you are running solo and you go to a keep defense, offense, bridge farm, whatever, and there's more than just you there, you are now a part of the zerg, regardless of your motives. You can't complain that you got zerged when you tried to one-man a keep/outpost/resource and a group came in response to the fighting. There isn't a notification that Player A is a soloist for people to identify, and in the heat of everything, you're going to get run down, especially if the game is more high stakes at that given moment. It's guilt by association... and people need to just be honest with themselves about that aspect of the game.

And an arena area would be awesome... where people could chose 1v1, 2v2, etc... hell even a 24 v 24 battle. Why not? Then there would be a place where Duelers and soloists could go and earn their own unique rewards and all.

Agreed! Another reason to have an arena where people could be matched up for 1v1, 2v2, etc is so I won't feel quite as bad when my group rolls over a couple of duelers who are dueling within sight of Chal....

kit_sune

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Yeah, that would be a pretty short measure for me!

I'm on the same boat. It's all about how you use it!

kit_sune

AOE caps hurt smaller groups and solo players

kit_sune

Lumsdenml

skepticalfox wrote: »

Hey! Who took my picture!?!

Lumsdenml

Just wondering (and a bit lazy as I suppose I could look this up), but who uses the ESO-Database add on?

https://www.eso-database.com/en/add-data/

ŞσƦѦ

skepticalfox wrote: »

AOE caps hurt smaller groups and solo players

As a solo/duo and sometimes small group player who is at least 90% of the time fighting a zerg against the odds, I can safely say speaking from experience that AOE caps do not hurt me. I benefit from them because it causes players to use their brain and try to focus down priority targets instead of just running in with a swarm of zombies mindlessly spamming AOEs.

Lumsdenml

ŞσƦѦ wrote: »

skepticalfox wrote: »

AOE caps hurt smaller groups and solo players

As a solo/duo and sometimes small group player who is at least 90% of the time fighting a zerg against the odds, I can safely say speaking from experience that AOE caps do not hurt me. I benefit from them because it causes players to use their brain and try to focus down priority targets instead of just running in with a swarm of zombies mindlessly spamming AOEs.

All things being equal, wouldn't the 1 person be taking twice as much damage and die twice as quick therefor not really have anything to do with aoe caps?

Though, I can see why aoe caps would hurt larger groups more.... does anyone know what the aoe cap is?

kit_sune

The aoe cap is 6

Lumsdenml

skepticalfox wrote: »

The aoe cap is 6

So if the aoe cap is 6, you would need to have 7 or more active aoes going at one time in order for the cap to be in effect, right? Could 1 person have that many aoes active at one time?

W0lf_z13

so...random thought for the day..... i have come to the conclusion that i have been spoiled by playing on 3 monitors.... last night just for sh!ts and giggles...before i went to bed i decided to attempt to play eso on my 42" tv ...... going from 3 monitors to 1 monitor SUCKS.... completely hated it... I died within 10 seconds of a fight just mainly because the whole time i couldnt concentrate on the fight itself... instead i was fixated on how bad it looked lol

kit_sune

Lumsdenml wrote: »

So if the aoe cap is 6, you would need to have 7 or more active aoes going at one time in order for the cap to be in effect, right? Could 1 person have that many aoes active at one time?

AOE cap meaning how many people a single AOE can hit at max damage

Celestial_Rift

Someone is spoiled!!! @Wolf_z13

JK!

vamp_emily

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

so...random thought for the day..... i have come to the conclusion that i have been spoiled by playing on 3 monitors.... last night just for sh!ts and giggles...before i went to bed i decided to attempt to play eso on my 42" tv ...... going from 3 monitors to 1 monitor SUCKS.... completely hated it... I died within 10 seconds of a fight just mainly because the whole time i couldnt concentrate on the fight itself... instead i was fixated on how bad it looked lol

So that explains your super wide video creation. I was wondering why your videos turned out wide.

Even though I only play ESO on one monitor, I have to have duel monitors. Usually when I am playing ESO I'm actually playing another social game also. One game on my laptop screen and then ESO on a external monitor.