NA PC BWB second attempt

Lumsdenml

Shall we try this again boys and girls?

Vyle_Byte

Yes! Thank you for making our thread again, saw the other got closed and was totally bummed! Guys, keep it civil we need our thread!!

Valen_Byte

I almost made this thread myself lol

Lets not get this one locked mk?

If there is someone that gets under your skin on the regular...for the love of tamriel...just block them so that you don't see their posts anymore. That's what I did awhile back and my time on the BWB thread has been much better : ))

@zos I think closing the previous thread was a bit uncalled for. All you have to do is slap a ban on the 1 or 2 people that are causing problems. No need to ruin it for the rest of us....

On topic: BWB has just been a mess ever since TG dropped. I have not been able to put my finger on what it is that has affected the gameplay so much. Honestly its just not as fun anymore.

Lumsdenml

Valen_Byte wrote: »

I almost made this thread myself lol

Lets not get this one locked mk?

If there is someone that gets under your skin on the regular...for the love of tamriel...just block them so that you don't see their posts anymore. That's what I did awhile back and my time on the BWB thread has been much better : ))

@zos I think closing the previous thread was a bit uncalled for. All you have to do is slap a ban on the 1 or 2 people that are causing problems. No need to ruin it for the rest of us....

On topic: BWB has just been a mess ever since TG dropped. I have not been able to put my finger on what it is that has affected the gameplay so much. Honestly its just not as fun anymore.

I know what you mean. It was sooooooo much fun that first campaign, but after that....

Gederic

Valen_Byte wrote: »

I almost made this thread myself lol

Lets not get this one locked mk?

If there is someone that gets under your skin on the regular...for the love of tamriel...just block them so that you don't see their posts anymore. That's what I did awhile back and my time on the BWB thread has been much better : ))

@zos I think closing the previous thread was a bit uncalled for. All you have to do is slap a ban on the 1 or 2 people that are causing problems. No need to ruin it for the rest of us....

On topic: BWB has just been a mess ever since TG dropped. I have not been able to put my finger on what it is that has affected the gameplay so much. Honestly its just not as fun anymore.

I think its a combination of things. For one BwB has been wildly inconsistent the past few weeks with one faction dominating at all points and then shifting very quickly to another faction dominating the whole map, not a whole lot of the usual 'equality' so to speak where each faction controls their bit and so on. Of course this has lead to all the stupid drama about the purple or green or orange alliance crap.
As an EP player the population of the campaign has been strange, it will go from several groups to next to nothing for days. Maybe thats just an EP problem lately, but idk.
I think the biggest problem with this patch was what they did with siege. People would rather lay down a ballista then fight a 1v1. The other day a guy saw me and a friend, just me and a friend, and laid down a firepot treb. Wow really? All these open field battles just seem to be two factions lining up siege and firing back and forth. Boring..
Lets not mention the whole new thing where people only roll dodge... and nothing else...

Valen_Byte

Gederic wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

I almost made this thread myself lol

Lets not get this one locked mk?

If there is someone that gets under your skin on the regular...for the love of tamriel...just block them so that you don't see their posts anymore. That's what I did awhile back and my time on the BWB thread has been much better : ))

@zos I think closing the previous thread was a bit uncalled for. All you have to do is slap a ban on the 1 or 2 people that are causing problems. No need to ruin it for the rest of us....

On topic: BWB has just been a mess ever since TG dropped. I have not been able to put my finger on what it is that has affected the gameplay so much. Honestly its just not as fun anymore.

I think its a combination of things. For one BwB has been wildly inconsistent the past few weeks with one faction dominating at all points and then shifting very quickly to another faction dominating the whole map, not a whole lot of the usual 'equality' so to speak where each faction controls their bit and so on. Of course this has lead to all the stupid drama about the purple or green or orange alliance crap.
As an EP player the population of the campaign has been strange, it will go from several groups to next to nothing for days. Maybe thats just an EP problem lately, but idk.
I think the biggest problem with this patch was what they did with siege. People would rather lay down a ballista then fight a 1v1. The other day a guy saw me and a friend, just me and a friend, and laid down a firepot treb. Wow really? All these open field battles just seem to be two factions lining up siege and firing back and forth. Boring..
Lets not mention the whole new thing where people only roll dodge... and nothing else...

Ya, I think siege and the way people have chosen to use it is one of the biggest imbalances in BWB right now. They buffed siege so that it would have an impact on the Vet campaigns, but they failed to consider how it would effect the servers that are No-CP. That, I think has led to the new strategy of day/night capping. People just don't want to have a hour long battle just to fail. If a keep is being defended, its almost a sure wipe for the attacking force. So, everyone just attacks forts that are not defended. That all plays a part in what you mention. The dominating faction is the one who took the map when no one was on, and then the other factions look at the map and decide not to log on. In the end, I believe it all comes back to...siege. Its way out of balance in BWB and needs to be looked at by @zos. The open field battles used to be my favorite. More often than not it turns in to a siege war just like you described. To be honest, EP seems to not do the whole "put down siege any time you see an enemy" as much as the other two factions which is why I prefer to fight EP these days. But, with EP's population problems, I don't push EP very much and that makes for very long very boring fights with DC.

In short, I think you are dead on about the siege damage being the main problem in BwB. IDK, just thinking out loud.

EdmundTowers

I saw the posts before they got deleted and the old thread was closed. It was all just one guy throwing a hissy fit. Don't get why they went and closed the thread because of one guy.

And I disagree with you guys on the siege changes. Battles have been amazing, you guys are missing out. I've had no problem with two armies forming lines of ballistas and shooting at each other. It causes people to spread out and it's easy to avoid the red circles. For the most part the ballistas are shooting at each other and I've been finding tons of opportunities for small skirmishes while there's siege fire raining all around. You'll find small groups of players fighting it out on the edges of those battle lines. Sometimes in the middle of it.

And keeps are a lot harder to take. This is a good thing as the hour long battles have been epic. Before it was too easy. Get one big blob of players to zerg their way down to a keep, ignore resources, brake outer, ignore porch and courtyard, brake inner, and go in. That was basically the only strategy needed. Even with a half ass attempt at sieging by the attackers, there wasn't much the defenders could do about it but to wait inside. Rinse and repeat for the next keep. Doing that still works, but a half ass attempt will get mowed down now.

There's a lot more going on now. Attackers have the option to take a resource and plant a forward camp. Defenders are able to hold on to a gap in the outer now. Attackers have to be really organized to get in, or just brake a second wall down. Also, ignoring the porch and courtyard is dangerous. Defenders can use sieges from that porch to screw attackers over and plant a forward camp next inside. Lastly, taking the inner sometimes requires braking two walls down as well.

So basically, I've been enjoying the changes brought by TG. The night capping is annoying as it is harder to take keeps now but if people would just log on and play this wouldn't be a problem.

Arobain

its because of the Grave Diggers guild, they are large guild, that switch factions and farm for AP by taking over the map/getting emp/ taking scrolls, they have enough numbers to flip a faction to dominate the map, most players you see with ' Death ' in there name, is a part of this guild, hope this sheds light on it

PhatGrimReaper

NICE!!!!

The last thread was productive for soo long which is great!! Most of the Vet Threads have a lifespan of 2-3 hours... Don't be like that.... Keep this one Kewl!!

EdmundTowers

Arobain wrote: »

its because of the Grave Diggers guild, they are large guild, that switch factions and farm for AP by taking over the map/getting emp/ taking scrolls, they have enough numbers to flip a faction to dominate the map, most players you see with ' Death ' in there name, is a part of this guild, hope this sheds light on it

I do remember the "Death by Sap" Emp that DC had during the first few weeks after TG. Pretty much kept the map blue until he vetted out. Is he and his entourage the Grave Diggers guild your referring to?

EdmundTowers

EP Keeps claimed by the following guilds:
The Disenfranchised
Boom Squad
Nurse Joy Is Nice
Anti-Zerg Society
Gank Mob
Make BWB Great Again

Adenoma

And Nurse Joys ERPvP BathHaus owns Bleakers.

DeadlyRecluse

Valen_Byte wrote: »

On topic: BWB has just been a mess ever since TG dropped. I have not been able to put my finger on what it is that has affected the gameplay so much. Honestly its just not as fun anymore.

My guesses:

1. While the removal of CP was necessary, siege damage and NPCs are balanced around CP-equipped players. Nerf siege by 10-25 percent and NPCs by 10 percent in BWB and maybe Azuras.

2. Population has become really inconsistent for some reason. Last night during what is normally a relatively even time (usually 2-3 bars pop across the board), it was 3-1-1. That makes for pretty bad PvP. And this happens at different times favoring different factions.

3. The first campaign after TG hid many of these problems because people wanted to play around with new sets. Now that has died down a bit, and there seems to be a little bit of a pop decrease across the board. When overall population drops, the inconsistencies in population become more apparent--2 bars pop can fight poplock with coordination, but 3 bars rolls 1 bar hard, usually.

Arobain wrote: »

its because of the Grave Diggers guild, they are large guild, that switch factions and farm for AP by taking over the map/getting emp/ taking scrolls, they have enough numbers to flip a faction to dominate the map, most players you see with ' Death ' in there name, is a part of this guild, hope this sheds light on it

I have no particular love for Grave Diggers, but they aren't what is hurting BwB right now. In fact, many of them rolled red to start off that actually balanced campaign we had a week or two.

vamp_emily

Don't banned me I just like to boil the pot when its hot

treborrealb14_ESO

Valen_Byte wrote: »

I almost made this thread myself lol

Lets not get this one locked mk?

If there is someone that gets under your skin on the regular...for the love of tamriel...just block them so that you don't see their posts anymore. That's what I did awhile back and my time on the BWB thread has been much better : ))

@zos I think closing the previous thread was a bit uncalled for. All you have to do is slap a ban on the 1 or 2 people that are causing problems. No need to ruin it for the rest of us....

On topic: BWB has just been a mess ever since TG dropped. I have not been able to put my finger on what it is that has affected the gameplay so much. Honestly its just not as fun anymore.

You mean the Faction swapping? Guys logging in with toons near same name on each faction as the time zones change? TBh thats my obeservation.

treborrealb14_ESO

Gederic wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

I almost made this thread myself lol

Lets not get this one locked mk?

If there is someone that gets under your skin on the regular...for the love of tamriel...just block them so that you don't see their posts anymore. That's what I did awhile back and my time on the BWB thread has been much better : ))

@zos I think closing the previous thread was a bit uncalled for. All you have to do is slap a ban on the 1 or 2 people that are causing problems. No need to ruin it for the rest of us....

On topic: BWB has just been a mess ever since TG dropped. I have not been able to put my finger on what it is that has affected the gameplay so much. Honestly its just not as fun anymore.

I think its a combination of things. For one BwB has been wildly inconsistent the past few weeks with one faction dominating at all points and then shifting very quickly to another faction dominating the whole map, not a whole lot of the usual 'equality' so to speak where each faction controls their bit and so on. Of course this has lead to all the stupid drama about the purple or green or orange alliance crap.
As an EP player the population of the campaign has been strange, it will go from several groups to next to nothing for days. Maybe thats just an EP problem lately, but idk.
I think the biggest problem with this patch was what they did with siege. People would rather lay down a ballista then fight a 1v1. The other day a guy saw me and a friend, just me and a friend, and laid down a firepot treb. Wow really? All these open field battles just seem to be two factions lining up siege and firing back and forth. Boring..
Lets not mention the whole new thing where people only roll dodge... and nothing else...

I find no problem with open field combat (civil war) if you have battle lines use siege to equalize I actually enjoy that being used again as a Healer I rather see that lv 10+ on a ballista rather then getting 2 shot by a NB

treborrealb14_ESO

EdmundTowers wrote: »

EP Keeps claimed by the following guilds:
The Disenfranchised
Boom Squad
Nurse Joy Is Nice
Anti-Zerg Society
Gank Mob
Make BWB Great Again

Hey can we name those AD keeps that never change when captured due to the Keep Bug? whats that Booty and? Either way annoying azz bug that you think Zos could have fixed by now

Mjollo

The forums are a public place meant for topics of discussions and arguments. It's a place where ideas and thoughts are to be shared and options should be encouraged from everyone. Arguments and heated debates are what make threads interesting and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them as long as they don't get personal. It's not meant to hurt anyone's feelings but rather open up people's minds to the different ideas users come up with.

With that said, I agree with all of you on the topic of siege. In my opinion, this seems like the strongest trait that really ruins the no CP experience. Its really disheartening to see someone set up 5-6 siege in an open field battle. Especially when I think that's what separated BwB from the vet campaigns. I like BwB because there's typically no lag however it had the same pop (back in the day). It felt what ESO was meant to be. A massive war, not a stack and zerg tactic. Now that people have figured out siege is a primary aspect for winning, it's all I ever see. 10v1? Still set up siege on that poor guy because, "hey! Why not?".

mcurley

The siege change was needed because taking keeps before was just way too easy.

It is ridiculous how often people turn to them for open field battles, though... I get wanting to win but damn how freaking boring is that? "Duuuur it's gonna be 5v5.... I should set up a siege!"

It would be nice if they would have siege lose strength based on proximity to keeps.

treborrealb14_ESO

I think the only ones that really hate the seige are the Vamps. But honestly in a 5 v1 Im guessing the guy though others where in stealth?

and for open field dont forget:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pincer_movement

Lumsdenml

EdmundTowers wrote: »

EP Keeps claimed by the following guilds:
The Disenfranchised
Boom Squad
Nurse Joy Is Nice
Anti-Zerg Society
Gank Mob
Make BWB Great Again

Not sure what the context of this is. What are you saying about these guilds?

W0lf_z13

WOOT!!!! back again!!! this was my fav thread, enjoyed talking with all of the factions on here....

vamp_emily

mcurley wrote: »

The siege change was needed because taking keeps before was just way too easy.

It is ridiculous how often people turn to them for open field battles, though... I get wanting to win but damn how freaking boring is that? "Duuuur it's gonna be 5v5.... I should set up a siege!"

It would be nice if they would have siege lose strength based on proximity to keeps.

[ rolls my eyes ]
If you do that then you might as well make it where players lose health/strength when in groups. So I don't die when 2 or more players attack me.

You guys just need to learn how to fight, no matter how players tend to try and kill you. If I put up a siege I am basically saying "Get out of here". No matter if its me sieging from a keep or a me sieging in the open field trying to push forward.

Lumsdenml

I think the change of siege is fine. It does help an outnumbered force even the odds and give them a chance. Helps an outnumbered group defend a keep. It adds a new element to open field battles. Fine and dandy... just adapt. The constant switching of large guilds from one faction to the other, causing 3-1-1, 1-3-1, 1-1-3 population issues is a BIG problem, however.

vamp_emily

This is what you should do when being sieged

Lumsdenml

treborrealb14_ESO wrote: »

EdmundTowers wrote: »

EP Keeps claimed by the following guilds:
The Disenfranchised
Boom Squad
Nurse Joy Is Nice
Anti-Zerg Society
Gank Mob
Make BWB Great Again

Hey can we name those AD keeps that never change when captured due to the Keep Bug? whats that Booty and? Either way annoying azz bug that you think Zos could have fixed by now

The Disenfranchised is an EP guild (ZZ). Nurse Joy is NIce I thought was a joke that was mentioned on the old forum thread? Not sure about the rest...

vamp_emily

hmm .. I was thinking about starting a guild, not sure what a good name would be

Girls Gone Wild
Nurse Killers
Silent But Deadly
Vicious Death

Mjollo

Siege isn't a personal issue for me. If I see someone setting up siege in the back line in an OFB. You can place all bets that that's going to be the first person I kill. The problem is the new cliche of it. It's entirely predictable and easy to flank but you have to think of it on terms of the pug's level of play. If the first thing you do is set up a siege just because you're scared of dying in a field, what are you really teaching people?

Vyle_Byte

vamp_emily wrote: »

You guys just need to learn how to fight, no matter how players tend to try and kill you. If I put up a siege I am basically saying "Get out of here". No matter if its me sieging from a keep or a me sieging in the open field trying to push forward.

LOL! I'm pretty sure that everyone on this thread knows how to fight, they do not need to learn, a lot of us have been here since launch and have had to adapt with each new meta.

The point I think most are trying to get across is that ZOS made these changes with no regard to how it would effect the No-CP servers, the siege numbers are meant to work with CP. Balance, its ALL about balance. And right now, siege is an easy button, it takes no skill whatsoever to aim and shoot. Idk about you but I don't work on my characters skills and build just to use siege at every skirmish.

EdmundTowers

Lumsdenml wrote: »

EdmundTowers wrote: »

EP Keeps claimed by the following guilds:
The Disenfranchised
Boom Squad
Nurse Joy Is Nice
Anti-Zerg Society
Gank Mob
Make BWB Great Again

Not sure what the context of this is. What are you saying about these guilds?

They're actually guilds? I thought some EP were going around claiming keeps and giving them troll names and that it was easy to see by listing the names out lol.

Lumsdenml wrote: »

I think the change of siege is fine. It does help an outnumbered force even the odds and give them a chance. Helps an outnumbered group defend a keep. It adds a new element to open field battles. Fine and dandy... just adapt. The constant switching of large guilds from one faction to the other, causing 3-1-1, 1-3-1, 1-1-3 population issues is a BIG problem, however.

Yup, that's pretty much it. Sometimes its 2-2-2 or 3-2-2 and the map is pretty well balanced. But other times it just goes to like 3-1-1 or 3-2-1 all of a sudden. So one faction increased in numbers and another faction decreases. Hmm, I wonder if they are related..and not only that, I've noticed that in the 3-2-1 situations, the 3 and the 1 gang up on the 2, despite 3 having emp and 1st place on the scoreboard. I'm thinking there's a lot of players who prefer just switching to the winning side instead of having loyalty to one faction.

Lumsdenml

Defialed wrote: »

Siege isn't a personal issue for me. If I see someone setting up siege in the back line in an OFB. You can place all bets that that's going to be the first person I kill. The problem is the new cliche of it. It's entirely predictable and easy to flank but you have to think of it on terms of the pug's level of play. If the first thing you do is set up a siege just because you're scared of dying in a field, what are you really teaching people?

Siege is a tool. In the hands of a well run, organized group that is defending it, it can be deadly. In the hands of pugs, not in TS and not working together, it is a waste of AP and easy to take down.