Vicious Death and State of PVP

Ariades_swe

Even though the op lack social skills and seems pretty young and inexperienced when it comes to express himself I kind of agree with him.

Resipsa131

I think the set is fine albeit a bit of a power creep. However it is difficult to capture keeps without getting bombed breeching walls got me killed a few times yesterday.

Pallio

Magblade is the bomb

1Grumpy_dunmer1

Pallio wrote: »

Magblade is the bomb

Literally

Minalan

We complained about zergs and group play, and VD is what we get. We didn't just ask for it, we practically begged for it. Now that it's here, we don't like it, like a turd we just laid out that we don't want to roll in.

Because players here for some reason think that every keep siege should be an organized 1v1 dueling tournament or something, and that every emperor needs to have mad elite skills to be worthy of the title (not just someone who has a LOT of friends and allies backing him, just like how you succeed in real life).

If you're not some basement dwelling sociopath or socially stunted teenager, you play this game to chill with friends. Any mechanic that makes it so that I have to stand 20 meters from my FRIENDS so that I don't EXPLODE is asinine.

driosketch

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

croakroach wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Numbers still impact pvp.

If you have 50 players on your side against 10.

You will win still if you're all spread out and not all foaming at the mouth spamming gap closers at the same target which is common for zergs to do as I'm sure you know.

Now Vicious Death gives that group of 10 a fair shot if the zerg all gap closes to the same target and the small group can burst down at least a few of the opposing larger group.

My problem is that in most cases its the group of 50 running VD against small groups of sub 5 players constantly unless the fights at a highly contested siege.

AT NO POINT SHOULD A GROUP OF 10 PLAYERS WIPE 50. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF UNBALANCED. It also favors a few classes and builds that were already grossly OP at the expense of the majority of paying customers.

A small group of well coordinated players with optimal builds and superior tactics should absolutely be able to take out a larger group of players that are not of the same caliber; that's PvP in any game.

The only reason they can is due to a lack of balance my little snowflake. Sure. Stacking 10 OP broken NB might work but it is not balance.

You all confuse skill and "caliber" with a combination of champion points and the unbalanced pacifier ESO keeps shoving in NB mouths. It does not take rocket science to realize PVP is broken. You just need a IQ over 10 and the ability to read numbers.

Okay. So why again should a smaller elite group not be able to take out a larger scrub pug group?

By the way, there is one very easy solution to all your problems:

STOP STACKING.

In my experience, if a group of 10 players take out a group of 50, it's the 10 that are stacked into a ball.

Gan Xing

Therium104 wrote: »

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

croakroach wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Numbers still impact pvp.

If you have 50 players on your side against 10.

You will win still if you're all spread out and not all foaming at the mouth spamming gap closers at the same target which is common for zergs to do as I'm sure you know.

Now Vicious Death gives that group of 10 a fair shot if the zerg all gap closes to the same target and the small group can burst down at least a few of the opposing larger group.

My problem is that in most cases its the group of 50 running VD against small groups of sub 5 players constantly unless the fights at a highly contested siege.

AT NO POINT SHOULD A GROUP OF 10 PLAYERS WIPE 50. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF UNBALANCED. It also favors a few classes and builds that were already grossly OP at the expense of the majority of paying customers.

A small group of well coordinated players with optimal builds and superior tactics should absolutely be able to take out a larger group of players that are not of the same caliber; that's PvP in any game.

The only reason they can is due to a lack of balance my little snowflake. Sure. Stacking 10 OP broken NB might work but it is not balance.

You all confuse skill and "caliber" with a combination of champion points and the unbalanced pacifier ESO keeps shoving in NB mouths. It does not take rocket science to realize PVP is broken. You just need a IQ over 10 and the ability to read numbers.

Okay. So why again should a smaller elite group not be able to take out a larger scrub pug group?

By the way, there is one very easy solution to all your problems:

STOP STACKING.

Dude. The reason you can is because the game is not balanced. A group of 10 NB can be elite while a group of 10 Magic DK cannot because I promise you due to poor game design the NB will be much more successful.

Again. You are confusing skill with the easy mode sandwich ESO has given you scrubs for the past year. At what point does killing players by spamming the A and B button in 2 seconds bring up the red flag something is wrong. Oh I forgot it takes skill to spam the A button. My bad.... lol. Now add on VD and your spamming kills 10 people. Balanced!!!

I admit, I'm not a skilled player, but I run with a coordinated group of players who understand each other's weaknesses and are able to properly compensate for that. Even so, we can hold off a group of 30 or so players with just the 9 of us. We are not all NB, but rather mix of the four classes. I run a stam NB and am building a stam DK, and can generally survive most fights.

Coordination and communication is key, and we can eliminate even elite players that would normally take a group of 50 to kill.

Yes, STOP STACKING, spread out and delegate. Plan attacks, and make good choices if you don't want to die. In a general day I could go with even number of KB and deaths. the most elite of my group can go with 1 death and 50 KBs.

If you want to learn how to fight zergs, split them up and eliminate them by small groups. This is a tactic that I have seen DC use to move EP away from Chalman by sending a small group to Arrius. Same idea, gets the job done.

Coordination, tactics, and communication = most success in fighting the zerg and any OP enemy

olivaresdonjuan

Wasn't there a set to counter aoe's? It would also help if you weren't running a glass cannon.

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO

VD even procs when you are solo and also with good PR and always before the actual death, i.e. actually doing the killing

This set is bugged anyone using it is exploiting. PERIOD

Have been soloing a lot lately and even with this one being the only one except these exploiters around, STILL seeing the VD animation - while alive - then dead (more often than not) and not just now and then

FIX this ***

strikeback1247

This thread is still alive?

I'll say it once more:

L2P baby :^)

bowmanz607

I'm curious,

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

VD even procs when you are solo and also with good PR and always before the actual death, i.e. actually doing the killing

This set is bugged anyone using it is exploiting. PERIOD

Have been soloing a lot lately and even with this one being the only one except these exploiters around, STILL seeing the VD animation - while alive - then dead (more often than not) and not just now and then

FIX this ***

until there is some video evidence, the evidence is overwhelming in the other direction. it is not bugged. it is not an exploit. record your fights and slow it down and you will see that it is not procing early. Literally every video posted where someone claims it is procing early, when slowed down shows that it is not procing early. There is not one shred of evidence proving this set to be bugged.

aLi3nZ

I wasn't having much success with my mage bomb and 4K spell damage last night. Too many kills of only 2-3 out of a tightly stacked group of 10+ And sometimes nothing at all because it isn't that easy to time all the buffs and skills and set off the bomb location perfectly. Tonight I have pumped my build to 4.7k spell damage and got some practice in. I look toward to blowing up them dc on the battlefield. You dc are no longer safe just because you have 30 dc within arm distance. Can't blame them for trying to work as a team but this set is going to be a lot of fun. Allah akabar!!

Lettigall

Master_Kas wrote: »

PvP is elder skirts online again just like back at release.

You gimp yourself to much playing stamina build, unless you only want to be used for spamming bombard to *** people off xD

Devs are obsessed with dresses, look how many of them are in crown store.

Digiman

strikeback1247 wrote: »

STOP STACKING.

It's amazing how many people literally group up around the flag instead of maybe 5 while others scout out for any stragglers.

Everyone rushing to the chest to get the loot.

I do agree though I didn't expect the proc from Vicious death to also proc when it kills other players... They may need to put a cap on how many people could explode, 3 seems to be the best.

Devilhand

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I'm curious,

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

VD even procs when you are solo and also with good PR and always before the actual death, i.e. actually doing the killing

This set is bugged anyone using it is exploiting. PERIOD

Have been soloing a lot lately and even with this one being the only one except these exploiters around, STILL seeing the VD animation - while alive - then dead (more often than not) and not just now and then

FIX this ***

until there is some video evidence, the evidence is overwhelming in the other direction. it is not bugged. it is not an exploit. record your fights and slow it down and you will see that it is not procing early. Literally every video posted where someone claims it is procing early, when slowed down shows that it is not procing early. There is not one shred of evidence proving this set to be bugged.

VD does proc even in 1v1.. Just look your damage recount when you die, VD will be there.

People that say DONT STACK => Well, thats not a solution.
The set its WAY to OP, 23k damage (on tooltip of gold gear). Its almosta ultimate drop every time you kill someone.

VD needs a nerf? Yes, it does. Reduce radius and damage output. (I got hit between 5k to 12k, without blocking)
For those that say, learn to block... hmmm, would you run around the map holding block beacuse a magicka NB can bomb you any time? lol

But the real problem is that Magicka Nightblades can 1 shoot any player with Proxy det + Ultimate, Even in 1v1. (And we know even before the patch was live that was possible. Deltias video in youtube). So, is VD the real problem now? Yes and no.

Proxy det is the real problem, this skill should do non significant damage if there are less then 5 people. Otherwise, Cyrodil will become Magicka NB kamikazes or suicide bombers...

Conclusion:
- Nerf Proxy detonation (less damage when theres less then 5 players...= magicka NB should not be able to one shoot, 1 player in a openwolrd alone with proxy + ult)
- Nerf VD (Reduce radius, SHOULD NOT proc before you die...(broken..), reduce damage)

bowmanz607

Devilhand wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I'm curious,

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

VD even procs when you are solo and also with good PR and always before the actual death, i.e. actually doing the killing

This set is bugged anyone using it is exploiting. PERIOD

Have been soloing a lot lately and even with this one being the only one except these exploiters around, STILL seeing the VD animation - while alive - then dead (more often than not) and not just now and then

FIX this ***

until there is some video evidence, the evidence is overwhelming in the other direction. it is not bugged. it is not an exploit. record your fights and slow it down and you will see that it is not procing early. Literally every video posted where someone claims it is procing early, when slowed down shows that it is not procing early. There is not one shred of evidence proving this set to be bugged.

VD does proc even in 1v1.. Just look your damage recount when you die, VD will be there.

People that say DONT STACK => Well, thats not a solution.
The set its WAY to OP, 23k damage (on tooltip of gold gear). Its almosta ultimate drop every time you kill someone.

VD needs a nerf? Yes, it does. Reduce radius and damage output. (I got hit between 5k to 12k, without blocking)
For those that say, learn to block... hmmm, would you run around the map holding block beacuse a magicka NB can bomb you any time? lol

But the real problem is that Magicka Nightblades can 1 shoot any player with Proxy det + Ultimate, Even in 1v1. (And we know even before the patch was live that was possible. Deltias video in youtube). So, is VD the real problem now? Yes and no.

Proxy det is the real problem, this skill should do non significant damage if there are less then 5 people. Otherwise, Cyrodil will become Magicka NB kamikazes or suicide bombers...

Conclusion:
- Nerf Proxy detonation (less damage when theres less then 5 players...= magicka NB should be able to one shoot, 1 player in a openwolrd alone with proxy + ult)
- Nerf VD (Reduce radius, SHOULD NOT proc before you die...(broken..), reduce damage)

Ya. The ui is bugged. Confirmed. Ya it price 1v1. After you die.

Also, people can complain about nb combo all day, but I can pull that combo off with any aoe ult. I actually prefer daenbreaker. I think your right that the main issue is not that nb combo or vd is op. It is vd combined with proxy.

Adamon2

It's a set designed for a single purpose. Zerg fighting. If your fights are mostly 1v1 that set has a non-valuable 5 piece bonus. It only goes off after you've beat your opponent. I know on the death recap it appears. That's a bug. It goes off after death and show up on the recap (according to ZOS programming)...

If you're fighting an army that's spread out, that set still has a non-valuable 5 piece bonus.

If you're frequently fighting the zerg, use it.

If you're fighting a spread out group or 1v1, you would be better off using a set that has a 5 piece bonus that helps in the fight.

If you're balled up and your Spidey Sense is going off... spread out.

Lotta ifs... 2 cents.

bowmanz607

Adamon2 wrote: »

It's a set designed for a single purpose. Zerg fighting. If your fights are mostly 1v1 that set has a non-valuable 5 piece bonus. It only goes off after you've beat your opponent. I know on the death recap it appears. That's a bug. It goes off after death and show up on the recap (according to ZOS programming)...

If you're fighting an army that's spread out, that set still has a non-valuable 5 piece bonus.

If you're frequently fighting the zerg, use it.

If you're fighting a spread out group or 1v1, you would be better off using a set that has a 5 piece bonus that helps in the fight.

If you're balled up and your Spidey Sense is going off... spread out.

Lotta ifs... 2 cents.

It's nice for 1vx too. Since most players just ball up on you and hammer away because they outnumber you. Single target one and the other collapse.

DUTCH_REAPER

No no. Leave VD alone. My Magic DK has purpose in pvp once again. Every time people call for a nerf a puppy dies. There are so many dead puppies Cruela De'vil has a mansion of coats. Stop the madness!!

aLi3nZ

Please leave it alone. Zos doesn't want you to ball up and feel safe in your Zerg that is spamming purge, Bol, rapid regen, healing spring etc. with the kind of aoe spammed heals avalible there needs to be a set an opportunity to bust a Zerg with a well timed and positioned prox det ultimate vd combo.

It's so much fun. I don't feel bad using in cyrodill but in IC that is pretty mean.

RabNebula

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Numbers still impact pvp.

If you have 50 players on your side against 10.

You will win still if you're all spread out and not all foaming at the mouth spamming gap closers at the same target which is common for zergs to do as I'm sure you know.

Now Vicious Death gives that group of 10 a fair shot if the zerg all gap closes to the same target and the small group can burst down at least a few of the opposing larger group.

My problem is that in most cases its the group of 50 running VD against small groups of sub 5 players constantly unless the fights at a highly contested siege.

I can understand the argument for vd to give a group of 10 a boost against 50. But thats the problem! It doesnt just happen in 10 v 50 situations. They should have made it a proper anti zerg piece and not a "Dont stand near 1 other person because then you're apparently a zerg". The trouble right now is that it is triggered by anything that kills you and no matter how many of you there are.

It shouldnt be kicking in from siege kills (this does not kill zergs, it kills defenses).

It should not kick in unless there are 10 or more people around the VD player. Or more than 2 groups. (Too many times I have seen just 2 people and one gets killed by VD. What do Zeni class as a zerg? More than 1 person or something?

It should have a smaller blast to it.

The concept of VD is good but it needed more thought before it was put into the game. It's meant to be anti zerg but 2 people is not a zerg. Also defending a keep is not zerging.

It sometimes even triggers halfway through a 1v1 when the person isn't even dead yet. Currently its buggy and does not work as was intended.

ZoS need to address certain aspects of pvp before the next dlc. Otherwise they'll be letting their pvp just die a gruesome and vicious death before the next dlc drops.

Lokey0024

RabNebula wrote: »

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Numbers still impact pvp.

If you have 50 players on your side against 10.

You will win still if you're all spread out and not all foaming at the mouth spamming gap closers at the same target which is common for zergs to do as I'm sure you know.

Now Vicious Death gives that group of 10 a fair shot if the zerg all gap closes to the same target and the small group can burst down at least a few of the opposing larger group.

My problem is that in most cases its the group of 50 running VD against small groups of sub 5 players constantly unless the fights at a highly contested siege.

I can understand the argument for vd to give a group of 10 a boost against 50. But thats the problem! It doesnt just happen in 10 v 50 situations. They should have made it a proper anti zerg piece and not a "Dont stand near 1 other person because then you're apparently a zerg". The trouble right now is that it is triggered by anything that kills you and no matter how many of you there are.

It shouldnt be kicking in from siege kills (this does not kill zergs, it kills defenses).

It should not kick in unless there are 10 or more people around the VD player. Or more than 2 groups. (Too many times I have seen just 2 people and one gets killed by VD. What do Zeni class as a zerg? More than 1 person or something?

It should have a smaller blast to it.

The concept of VD is good but it needed more thought before it was put into the game. It's meant to be anti zerg but 2 people is not a zerg. Also defending a keep is not zerging.

It sometimes even triggers halfway through a 1v1 when the person isn't even dead yet. Currently its buggy and does not work as was intended.

ZoS need to address certain aspects of pvp before the next dlc. Otherwise they'll be letting their pvp just die a gruesome and vicious death before the next dlc drops.

I'm not sure why everyone is denying this. Is like children lieing to their parents to get away with something. This is how we got to this stage in game balance.

bowmanz607

RabNebula wrote: »

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Numbers still impact pvp.

If you have 50 players on your side against 10.

You will win still if you're all spread out and not all foaming at the mouth spamming gap closers at the same target which is common for zergs to do as I'm sure you know.

Now Vicious Death gives that group of 10 a fair shot if the zerg all gap closes to the same target and the small group can burst down at least a few of the opposing larger group.

My problem is that in most cases its the group of 50 running VD against small groups of sub 5 players constantly unless the fights at a highly contested siege.

I can understand the argument for vd to give a group of 10 a boost against 50. But thats the problem! It doesnt just happen in 10 v 50 situations. They should have made it a proper anti zerg piece and not a "Dont stand near 1 other person because then you're apparently a zerg". The trouble right now is that it is triggered by anything that kills you and no matter how many of you there are.

It shouldnt be kicking in from siege kills (this does not kill zergs, it kills defenses).

It should not kick in unless there are 10 or more people around the VD player. Or more than 2 groups. (Too many times I have seen just 2 people and one gets killed by VD. What do Zeni class as a zerg? More than 1 person or something?

It should have a smaller blast to it.

The concept of VD is good but it needed more thought before it was put into the game. It's meant to be anti zerg but 2 people is not a zerg. Also defending a keep is not zerging.

It sometimes even triggers halfway through a 1v1 when the person isn't even dead yet. Currently its buggy and does not work as was intended.

ZoS need to address certain aspects of pvp before the next dlc. Otherwise they'll be letting their pvp just die a gruesome and vicious death before the next dlc drops.

Ya sure it helps small group v large group, but that's not the only useful situation. It also helps with 3 v 10. It helps with 1v3. Etc. It is not just to bust up ball groups. It is meant as a set that also helps even smaller scale play styles where someone is outnumbered. Stop simply lumping it into just zerg busting. The issue is people fail to adapt to the new dangers of pvp. Many good players now play spread out. They will come together for buffs and the play loosely.

They are removing the proc from siege. I agree with this point.

The blast radius is not that big. In fact, I believe it is the smallest radius in the game.

The set was meant to spread people out. Whether that be 4 people or 50 people. A ball group of 10 people still adds a bunch of lag. It was not simply a 50 man buster, but a way to get all players to spread out. That said, I do think they should have just removed caps instead of this set to accomplish that.

Wrong, it does not trigger halfway through battle. There is not one shred of evidence to support this claim. It procs after death. Please provide proof to show otherwise. Everything someone says this they are never able to support their argument, but just take it for a truth. In fact, the couple videos that people tried to prove it was pricing early actually undeniably showed that it was procing after death. People rely on the death recap as proof without actually looking at their own fight video to know that the combat log is bugged which is also confirmed by zos. Stop spreading false information without being able to prove it please especially when the evidence is overwhelming in the other direction.

We will see skill line revamps next patch. Fingers crossed they get it right. With dB coming out, this game should finally be out of beta.

Sk000tch

aLi3nZ wrote: »

Please leave it alone. Zos doesn't want you to ball up and feel safe in your Zerg that is spamming purge, Bol, rapid regen, healing spring etc. with the kind of aoe spammed heals avalible there needs to be a set an opportunity to bust a Zerg with a well timed and positioned prox det ultimate vd combo.

It's so much fun. I don't feel bad using in cyrodill but in IC that is pretty mean.

If they didn't want rapid regen, healing springs and purify spam they shouldn't have created a set that a pvp healer set that procs crit resistance on HOT ticks, while at the same time nerfing the best mobile insta heal.

Lokey0024

@bowmanz607

https://youtu.be/DRxxTM2CiDU

bowmanz607

Lokey0024 wrote: »

@bowmanz607

https://youtu.be/DRxxTM2CiDU

this video yet again proves the the set is working. slow the video down. look at all of the red numbers. not counting the VD and det numbers they add up to 17,195 out your 24,994 health. (2,130+4441+1,664+3,328+2424+1,944+452+812=17,195). Now dd in your healing 138+138+138=414. so lets subtract that from damage taken. 17,195 (damage taken) - 414 (healing) = 16,781 (damage taken).

so right before det goes off, you have 8,213 health remaining [24,994 (total health) - 16,781 (damage taken) = 8,213 remaining health.

Det then hits for 8,717 which kills you.

now the key here is noticing the animations. As has been confirmed by zos and confirmed by the community, the VD proc is bugged in the combat log which displays the VD damage before the final shot although it didnt proc before the final shot. Again, slow do the video and look at the animations. Detonation goes off first and you are dead, and then upon death VD procs. It is clear as day.

Again, this is just another video showing that it is working as intended. Add the numbers, look at the animations, and slow the video down. It is all there.

DHale

VD is the best set ever to be introduced to pvp in.... Forever. I have been in group up of 8 and killed over 30 because they balled up. It was their fault and they paid the price. All you really got to do is kill one and it can chain reaction. I do wished they would fix the bug that shows on your own death recap but we have tested it a lot on our other faction alts it worked better than great. The simple answer is be very careful who you get closer than 5 meters to.... Or else.

bowmanz607

DHale wrote: »

VD is the best set ever to be introduced to pvp in.... Forever. I have been in group up of 8 and killed over 30 because they balled up. It was their fault and they paid the price. All you really got to do is kill one and it can chain reaction. I do wished they would fix the bug that shows on your own death recap but we have tested it a lot on our other faction alts it worked better than great. The simple answer is be very careful who you get closer than 5 meters to.... Or else.

Well remember, the set only pros on a player when you get the killing blow. If another player dies from vd proc and not a killing blow, then they will not proc the set on their death.

Hibbou

BOUUUUHOUUUHOUUUU, NB are so meaaaaaaan!
Correction, Magicka NB, correction again, ALL magicka classes...
what s the difference betwin a Magicka NB, and a sorc or a temp, or a DK with vicious death, none: jump in with det, use ultimate and wait for the rest while casting AOE

stop saying NB are OP, ever tryed a stamblade? oh, you can gank sure, but they are some rules

-is he alone? how much fun it is to find a single player in cyro considering that single players are usually sneaking, and the rest is in a bus
-does he has more than 23-24k health? if he does, than fight too long, other people coming, or lucky as I am, he casts a damage shield, goes full health again while drinking cofee, refreshes damage shield, and than burst the Sh** outta me, you thought he had descent healing, but you should see the damages
-same as the previous point does he has a damge shield or a healing buff going on, If yes, than your first strike (which is the biggest/only asset of the stam NB) will be overhealed or absorbed
-oh, you finally found one! how s your stamina bar, been sneaking a while now, well, next time maybe

but yeah, no, go on, nerf NB, and just in case, give a little more dps/healing, and stronger damage shield to magicka classes

bowmanz607

Hibbou wrote: »

BOUUUUHOUUUHOUUUU, NB are so meaaaaaaan!
Correction, Magicka NB, correction again, ALL magicka classes...
what s the difference betwin a Magicka NB, and a sorc or a temp, or a DK with vicious death, none: jump in with det, use ultimate and wait for the rest while casting AOE

stop saying NB are OP, ever tryed a stamblade? oh, you can gank sure, but they are some rules

-is he alone? how much fun it is to find a single player in cyro considering that single players are usually sneaking, and the rest is in a bus
-does he has more than 23-24k health? if he does, than fight too long, other people coming, or lucky as I am, he procs a damage shield, goes full life again while drinking cofee, refreshes damage shield, and than burst the Sh** outta me, because he has great healing, but you should see the damages
-same as previous point does he has a damge shield or a healing buff going on, If yes, than your first strike (which is the biggest/only asset of the stam NB) will be overhealed or absorbed
-oh, you finally found one! how s your stamina bar, been sneaking a while now, well, next time maybe

but yeah, no, go on, nerf NB, and just in case, give a little more dps/healing, and stronger damage shield to magicka classes

Ya some people don't understand that you can do this with many ults. As I have said before, I have a mag nb, but I use dawnbreaker. I actually think it is more effective for sustain fighting. I get ult quicker and it hits harder which means I am throwing out these combos a ton more and hitting harder. Plus, there are plenty of vamps out their to do more damage too.

People call it a nb issue because, but that's simply because more people run nb.