Vicious Death and State of PVP

Therium104 · April 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

As I'm on my phone and can't type much, but regardless of class, etc...this game is so stupidly broken.

The nerf to every form of mobility has buffed snares beyond the realm of reason, everywhere you go is AOE snare spamming Bombard, sip an Immovable pot and be triple cc with wrecking blow, fire reach, and meteor back to back.

Survivabity has been nerfed into the ground. The only survivable builds (somewhat tanks) only do well in a group and since escape is gone for all classes now, eso has become a fantasy call of duty.

They have ruined their own game. Trust me folks it won't be fixed anytime soon, they left DK broken for over a year, Stam blades were broken for over a year, Sorcs could be said to be broken as well. Even Templars are broken Zerg surfers.

I hadn't played for a few weeks I played a bit this weekend, and honestly, if that is any indication of this games future,then it has none.

For pvp pop if, well not if, when VE leaves for CU pvp on NA OC will be dead because DC doesn't have the pop numbers to even hope to compete. I watched EP outnumber DC 6-1 at every turn this weekend and AD was fairing no better easily outnumbered 5-1. All the big AD guilds are gone, DC best guild looks like they are on their way out due to a broken game, it will only be a matter of time until DC has no presence left in the game, Atleast not one that can make any map moves which effectively turns it into a 2 faction game that will quickly become just 1

The EP outnumber both AD and DC on TF right now by ridiculous numbers. They were fighting 20 on 20 AD siege on Alessia while still fielding 50+ on glade the other night no way AD let alone DC can even hope to compete that stupidly outnumbered. The only reason we were not gate camped is because EP wants something to do, I'd hardly call that pvp

Scourge server on xbox is fairing no better. When they changed Azura Star a huge group of AD moved to the server. AD typically has three bars most of the 24 hour period with DC at one bar most of the time. It is ridiculous. DC has three bar population a few short hours in the evening vs. AD with a high population 24/7. How exactly is that balanced.

Now add on VD and these big AD zergs decimate everything in their path. I was hit for two VD proc at one time in a keep for around 10k each. 20k damage..... The VD did more damage then the proc det which has an 8 second timer...... Two people dieing in a group and wiped out a huge area of players. It was frigging stupid. The dev who thought up prox det needs to be fired.

If you include the ridiculous out of balance state of the classes with NB so grossly OP it is ridiculous.

The servers are horrible. At most big fights 50% of the group is booted off the game. Most cannot get out of loading screens. It takes multiple tries to even get back into the game and for what.... to have the group of 10 players die in 2 seconds due to a proc det, ultimate, and VD. Forget healing.... forget gear.... forget tactics.

Therium104 · April 2016

AmalgamousPrime wrote: »

@therium104 Try playing a magicka NB, see if you still think low damage, costly abilities are OP. Concealed weapon is a joke against templars heals, sorceror shields, or anyone running annulment. Their kit is weak and the only reason you are saying they are OP is because of proximity det which is available to every class.

Lol... please dont cry on a NB. Stealth is a huge advantage. The burst is real... and needs a nerf.

Try playing a different class where they need to slot 3 abilities to get the effects of one on a NB.... cry me a river.

AmalgamousPrime · April 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

AmalgamousPrime wrote: »

@therium104 Try playing a magicka NB, see if you still think low damage, costly abilities are OP. Concealed weapon is a joke against templars heals, sorceror shields, or anyone running annulment. Their kit is weak and the only reason you are saying they are OP is because of proximity det which is available to every class.

Lol... please dont cry on a NB. Stealth is a huge advantage. The burst is real... and needs a nerf.

Try playing a different class where they need to slot 3 abilities to get the effects of one on a NB.... cry me a river.

Every class can utilize stealth. You want to talk about burst? Go look up Alcast's updated "bullseye" build.

Magicka NB have low damage that they need to cut into further to achieve a high enough regen to sustain cloak. If you are playing a DK and getting bursted down by a magicka NB it means you are having some serious L2P issues. Get some Impen gear and stop stacking on other players. No good magicka NB is going to waste their potion CD and ultimate on a DK unless they know they can kill them with one burst. If that is the case then why are you even playing one? If you aren't going to invest in their survivability, reroll another class better suited for a damage dealing roll.

Stop crying about NBs, if your group got wrecked by VD a sorceror or templar can time an ultimate with proxy det just as easily as a NB can to get free AP off you meatballs that rotate each other as human shields while you ride the two button spam train to emperorship, where VD and proxy det lose even more effectiveness.

PhantomSpaceCop · April 2016

croakroach wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Numbers still impact pvp.

If you have 50 players on your side against 10.

You will win still if you're all spread out and not all foaming at the mouth spamming gap closers at the same target which is common for zergs to do as I'm sure you know.

Now Vicious Death gives that group of 10 a fair shot if the zerg all gap closes to the same target and the small group can burst down at least a few of the opposing larger group.

My problem is that in most cases its the group of 50 running VD against small groups of sub 5 players constantly unless the fights at a highly contested siege.

AT NO POINT SHOULD A GROUP OF 10 PLAYERS WIPE 50. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF UNBALANCED. It also favors a few classes and builds that were already grossly OP at the expense of the majority of paying customers.

A small group of well coordinated players with optimal builds and superior tactics should absolutely be able to take out a larger group of players that are not of the same caliber; that's PvP in any game.

Absolutely agree. Skill and coordination trumps mass uncoordinated chaos any day. Doesn't matter if the army has larger numbers—if they don't use strategy, know their roles and communicate with other, they are a useless band subject to being destroyed. (I've witnessed it, god it's embarassing)

jbcrocks · April 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

croakroach wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Numbers still impact pvp.

If you have 50 players on your side against 10.

You will win still if you're all spread out and not all foaming at the mouth spamming gap closers at the same target which is common for zergs to do as I'm sure you know.

Now Vicious Death gives that group of 10 a fair shot if the zerg all gap closes to the same target and the small group can burst down at least a few of the opposing larger group.

My problem is that in most cases its the group of 50 running VD against small groups of sub 5 players constantly unless the fights at a highly contested siege.

AT NO POINT SHOULD A GROUP OF 10 PLAYERS WIPE 50. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF UNBALANCED. It also favors a few classes and builds that were already grossly OP at the expense of the majority of paying customers.

A small group of well coordinated players with optimal builds and superior tactics should absolutely be able to take out a larger group of players that are not of the same caliber; that's PvP in any game.

The only reason they can is due to a lack of balance my little snowflake. Sure. Stacking 10 OP broken NB might work but it is not balance.

You all confuse skill and "caliber" with a combination of champion points and the unbalanced pacifier ESO keeps shoving in NB mouths. It does not take rocket science to realize PVP is broken. You just need a IQ over 10 and the ability to read numbers.

Okay. So why again should a smaller elite group not be able to take out a larger scrub pug group?

By the way, there is one very easy solution to all your problems:

STOP STACKING.

Dude. The reason you can is because the game is not balanced. A group of 10 NB can be elite while a group of 10 Magic DK cannot because I promise you due to poor game design the NB will be much more successful.

Again. You are confusing skill with the easy mode sandwich ESO has given you scrubs for the past year. At what point does killing players by spamming the A and B button in 2 seconds bring up the red flag something is wrong. Oh I forgot it takes skill to spam the A button. My bad.... lol. Now add on VD and your spamming kills 10 people. Balanced!!!

I don't think 10 nb can wreck 10 optimized dk's

Therium104 · April 2016

PhantomSpaceCop wrote: »

croakroach wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Numbers still impact pvp.

If you have 50 players on your side against 10.

You will win still if you're all spread out and not all foaming at the mouth spamming gap closers at the same target which is common for zergs to do as I'm sure you know.

Now Vicious Death gives that group of 10 a fair shot if the zerg all gap closes to the same target and the small group can burst down at least a few of the opposing larger group.

My problem is that in most cases its the group of 50 running VD against small groups of sub 5 players constantly unless the fights at a highly contested siege.

AT NO POINT SHOULD A GROUP OF 10 PLAYERS WIPE 50. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF UNBALANCED. It also favors a few classes and builds that were already grossly OP at the expense of the majority of paying customers.

A small group of well coordinated players with optimal builds and superior tactics should absolutely be able to take out a larger group of players that are not of the same caliber; that's PvP in any game.

Absolutely agree. Skill and coordination trumps mass uncoordinated chaos any day. Doesn't matter if the army has larger numbers—if they don't use strategy, know their roles and communicate with other, they are a useless band subject to being destroyed. (I've witnessed it, god it's embarassing)

This is an MMO with a few skills available on your bar. You all confuse champion points, gear, and OP class builds for skill.

Skill is when you compete with THE SAME SET OF TOOLS. The lack of class balance tosses any discussion of skill out the window. Basically we would have to play one class or all the same abilities are equally available to all players. Then build and etc is more meaningful. This is just a game and more balanced the greater fun for the majority of players. The problem is crying little snowflakes do not want balance. You want to maintain an advantage and the devs are to incompetent to balance the game.

Doesn't it get boring slamming your head against the keyboard or controller and killing others in 2 seconds with your NB because it is so broken OP it takes NO SKILL TO PLAY. Or that broken radiant destruction... All VD does is make these broken and skill-less builds more OP than before..... lol.

Resipsa131 · April 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Numbers still impact pvp.

If you have 50 players on your side against 10.

You will win still if you're all spread out and not all foaming at the mouth spamming gap closers at the same target which is common for zergs to do as I'm sure you know.

Now Vicious Death gives that group of 10 a fair shot if the zerg all gap closes to the same target and the small group can burst down at least a few of the opposing larger group.

My problem is that in most cases its the group of 50 running VD against small groups of sub 5 players constantly unless the fights at a highly contested siege.

AT NO POINT SHOULD A GROUP OF 10 PLAYERS WIPE 50. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF UNBALANCED. It also favors a few classes and builds that were already grossly OP at the expense of the majority of paying customers.

There are several examples irl where a 5:1 army was beaten by better tactics and strategy

Therium104 · April 2016

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Numbers still impact pvp.

If you have 50 players on your side against 10.

You will win still if you're all spread out and not all foaming at the mouth spamming gap closers at the same target which is common for zergs to do as I'm sure you know.

Now Vicious Death gives that group of 10 a fair shot if the zerg all gap closes to the same target and the small group can burst down at least a few of the opposing larger group.

My problem is that in most cases its the group of 50 running VD against small groups of sub 5 players constantly unless the fights at a highly contested siege.

AT NO POINT SHOULD A GROUP OF 10 PLAYERS WIPE 50. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF UNBALANCED. It also favors a few classes and builds that were already grossly OP at the expense of the majority of paying customers.

There are several examples irl where a 5:1 army was beaten by better tactics and strategy

OMG dude..... Tactics and strategy will win but that is not what is going on. See my post above.

Resipsa131 · April 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

How to avoid getting rekt bomb: Stop stacking, spread out a bit, and hit block. It's amazing how many people simply don't block.

What you L2P crowd don't understand:

Sure, you can avoid stacking some. But there's no way to stop or even know that the one-shottable wonder resto-staff newbie behind you was too close, or that he even died until you take 16K damage.

This set is kind of terrible, but it's far from the worst or most miserable thing about PVP (lag).

You should get away from these people particularly when they are about to die

Rune_Relic · April 2016

@Therium104
Too many people on the gravy train my friend.
You will be ignored or shouted down.
Seriously, time is almost up.

Sure there is tactics and strategy....and then there is numbers, gear and weaponry.
Either you carry the biggest stick...that hits everyone...with the biggest damage...all at the same time.
...or you die.

With camps the name of the game its not if you die.....but how many people you can kill before you die.
Camp and rez.
Its purely a DPS arms race.

This is an FPS game now.
Hit hardest, hit often, hit first, WIN.
If you can do that as a group.....even better.
No strategy or intelligence involved in that.
It is instagib 1vX skills to go with instagib 1v1 skills.

What gear are you wearing, what skills are you using.....errmmm der!
The IWIN one....
..because balance.

I am winning therefore game is balanced mentality...uhu

L2 exploitbrokencheesgearandskills P

I think we should just take this to its natural conclusion.
Give me a nuke button to wipe cyrodiil off the map.
Then reset.
Who hits 1st wins.
Lets all play god.

mcurley · April 2016

Playing in AS and BwB I have had VD on my death recap only once and magicka det / morph a handful of times. Maybe I'm just lucky... but it seems to me that this "OP" combo just doesn't work out very well without CPs.

If you want to partake in fun, competitive, and actually diverse battles then come and join the lag-free awesomeness of Azura's Star or Blackwater Blade (if you've got some lowbies).

Therium104 · April 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

@Therium104
Too many people on the gravy train my friend.
You will be ignored or shouted down.
Seriously, time is almost up.

Sure there is tactics and strategy....and then there is numbers, gear and weaponry.
Either you carry the biggest stick...that hits everyone...with the biggest damage...all at the same time.
...or you die.

With camps the name of the game its not if you die.....but how many people you can kill before you die.
Camp and rez.
Its purely a DPS arms race.

This is an FPS game now.
Hit hardest, hit often, hit first, WIN.
If you can do that as a group.....even better.
No strategy or intelligence involved in that.
It is instagib 1vX skills to go with instagib 1v1 skills.

What gear are you wearing, what skills are you using.....errmmm der!
The IWIN one....
..because balance.

I am winning therefore game is balanced mentality...uhu
L2 exploitbrokencheesgearandskills P

I agree in a way. My issue is several classes are specifically designed to fit into this play syle better than others. NB is all burst and could be played by a kid with down syndrome and no thumbs but still rekt because it is so OP broken. The devs drank some paint before adjusting Templar so radiant destruction and dark flare hit like trucks. Sorc always had burst. Both Sorc and templar have access to a restro staff and heals because the class abilities are so powerful.

If this is the new meta abd the train has left the station give Magic DK the same level of burst because a DoT class is garbage in high burst pvp. It is worst because magic dk is a low burst dot class with low survivability. Flamelash hits like a wet noodle compared to other spammable melee instants.

You know Sorcs... they are supposed to wear light armor so designed with powerful shields that synergieze with dps and mobility. The annoying damn teleport..... Magic DK was designed for heavy armor but due to poor resource management have to wear light but no heavy shields and no mobility. Yes, they can wear heavy armor but come on... you are so limited with resources what is the point.

JubJub · April 2016

I actually love VD, makin alot of money selling this crap.

Rune_Relic · April 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

@Therium104
Too many people on the gravy train my friend.
You will be ignored or shouted down.
Seriously, time is almost up.

Sure there is tactics and strategy....and then there is numbers, gear and weaponry.
Either you carry the biggest stick...that hits everyone...with the biggest damage...all at the same time.
...or you die.

With camps the name of the game its not if you die.....but how many people you can kill before you die.
Camp and rez.
Its purely a DPS arms race.

This is an FPS game now.
Hit hardest, hit often, hit first, WIN.
If you can do that as a group.....even better.
No strategy or intelligence involved in that.
It is instagib 1vX skills to go with instagib 1v1 skills.

What gear are you wearing, what skills are you using.....errmmm der!
The IWIN one....
..because balance.

I am winning therefore game is balanced mentality...uhu
L2 exploitbrokencheesgearandskills P

I agree in a way. My issue is several classes are specifically designed to fit into this play syle better than others. NB is all burst and could be played by a kid with down syndrome and no thumbs but still rekt because it is so OP broken. The devs drank some paint before adjusting Templar so radiant destruction and dark flare hit like trucks. Sorc always had burst. Both Sorc and templar have access to a restro staff and heals because the class abilities are so powerful.

If this is the new meta abd the train has left the station give Magic DK the same level of burst because a DoT class is garbage in high burst pvp. It is worst because magic dk is a low burst dot class with low survivability. Flamelash hits like a wet noodle compared to other spammable melee instants.

You know Sorcs... they are supposed to wear light armor so designed with powerful shields that synergieze with dps and mobility. The annoying damn teleport..... Magic DK was designed for heavy armor but due to poor resource management have to wear light but no heavy shields and no mobility. Yes, they can wear heavy armor but come on... you are so limited with resources what is the point.

Agreed.
Classes are role biased at the least... if not role specific.
My main gripe though is the lag generated by all the fireworks/hits..and one goto must use FoTM build..regardless.
Its like offering two combatants a gun and a knife.
Guess which one they both want ?
Guess what happens to the guy with the knife ?

Nidwin · April 2016

From what I saw past week-end (resubbed Friday) it's mainly that peeps don't block when they're jumped on. It's impossible for us, healers, to compensate for the amount of burst damage some take if they don't have the reflex to block when jumped on.

Same for activating "purge" after we cleanse or get out of those red circles.

Everytime I died with VD in the recap it was because I messed up, got rolled by an assist train, or a screen freez because of lag/whatever.

Therium104 · April 2016

Nidwin wrote: »

From what I saw past week-end (resubbed Friday) it's mainly that peeps don't block when they're jumped on. It's impossible for us, healers, to compensate for the amount of burst damage some take if they don't have the reflex to block when jumped on.

Same for activating "purge" after we cleanse or get out of those red circles.

Everytime I died with VD in the recap it was because I messed up, got rolled by an assist train, or a screen freez because of lag/whatever.

So the sole and primary reason players die to VD is a lack of blocking.... No offense but this whole discussion flew right over your head. Are you a dev in disguise? LOL

bowmanz607 · April 2016

Spread out, hold block, use magelight, increase your health, don't stand in one place too long.

Therium104 · April 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Spread out, hold block, use magelight, increase your health, don't stand in one place too long.

Everyone getting blown up constantly by VD never thought of that before......

MrTarkanian48 · April 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

@Therium104
Too many people on the gravy train my friend.
You will be ignored or shouted down.
Seriously, time is almost up.

Sure there is tactics and strategy....and then there is numbers, gear and weaponry.
Either you carry the biggest stick...that hits everyone...with the biggest damage...all at the same time.
...or you die.

With camps the name of the game its not if you die.....but how many people you can kill before you die.
Camp and rez.
Its purely a DPS arms race.

This is an FPS game now.
Hit hardest, hit often, hit first, WIN.
If you can do that as a group.....even better.
No strategy or intelligence involved in that.
It is instagib 1vX skills to go with instagib 1v1 skills.

What gear are you wearing, what skills are you using.....errmmm der!
The IWIN one....
..because balance.

I am winning therefore game is balanced mentality...uhu
L2 exploitbrokencheesgearandskills P

I agree in a way. My issue is several classes are specifically designed to fit into this play syle better than others. NB is all burst and could be played by a kid with down syndrome and no thumbs but still rekt because it is so OP broken. The devs drank some paint before adjusting Templar so radiant destruction and dark flare hit like trucks. Sorc always had burst. Both Sorc and templar have access to a restro staff and heals because the class abilities are so powerful.

If this is the new meta abd the train has left the station give Magic DK the same level of burst because a DoT class is garbage in high burst pvp. It is worst because magic dk is a low burst dot class with low survivability. Flamelash hits like a wet noodle compared to other spammable melee instants.

You know Sorcs... they are supposed to wear light armor so designed with powerful shields that synergieze with dps and mobility. The annoying damn teleport..... Magic DK was designed for heavy armor but due to poor resource management have to wear light but no heavy shields and no mobility. Yes, they can wear heavy armor but come on... you are so limited with resources what is the point.

So basically you're saying that NB's have always been strong, Sorcs have always been strong, Templars just got buffed up, but now Mag DK sucks...

Mag DK has been bad for a long time. This whole patch seemed dedicated to buffing DK's, and if it didn't get your class to where you are satisfied with it, then it probably just is not going to happen. If that's the case it's time to Re-Roll or quit just like everybody else.

I have leveled 4 toons to Vet levels and three to Vet 16. I spent alot of time leveling a Stam Sorc, just to find that is arguably one of the most underpowered builds for PVP. And Stam Sorc didnt get a single change this patch, unlike the entire page of DK buffs.I have a vet 10 Imperial DK that I have let sit for awhile because I can tell that it will make a good tank, but it's just not for me.

Nobody is forcing you to play a DK. Its not like Zeni just decides your class and you're stuck with it. Re-Roll whatever you want. Roll a NB, and wreck people if thats what works. Sure , PVP is mostly all NB's and Sorcs already, but what's one more? But if you want to play an underdog class then enjoy the victories when they come, and take it like a man when you lose. And please don't cry for nerfs to all other classes because you can't DoT people do death on your DK in PVP. If anything, ask for more buffs to your class to bring it up to that level. But as stated, you just got a ton of buffs, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

Regarding VD...Was it the right move, probably not. But it is available to all classes and builds. It also at least makes groups consider having to be careful, instead of being 100% infallible due to overwhelming numbers. It has nothing to do with any specific class. Throw it on your DK, and nuke people with siege weapons. Or don't i don't care. The FOTM bomb builds will likely fizzle out eventually, as people adapt to the changes and provide less opportunities for people to make huge plays by just standing around in groups.

Therium104 · April 2016

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

@Therium104
Too many people on the gravy train my friend.
You will be ignored or shouted down.
Seriously, time is almost up.

Sure there is tactics and strategy....and then there is numbers, gear and weaponry.
Either you carry the biggest stick...that hits everyone...with the biggest damage...all at the same time.
...or you die.

With camps the name of the game its not if you die.....but how many people you can kill before you die.
Camp and rez.
Its purely a DPS arms race.

This is an FPS game now.
Hit hardest, hit often, hit first, WIN.
If you can do that as a group.....even better.
No strategy or intelligence involved in that.
It is instagib 1vX skills to go with instagib 1v1 skills.

What gear are you wearing, what skills are you using.....errmmm der!
The IWIN one....
..because balance.

I am winning therefore game is balanced mentality...uhu
L2 exploitbrokencheesgearandskills P

I agree in a way. My issue is several classes are specifically designed to fit into this play syle better than others. NB is all burst and could be played by a kid with down syndrome and no thumbs but still rekt because it is so OP broken. The devs drank some paint before adjusting Templar so radiant destruction and dark flare hit like trucks. Sorc always had burst. Both Sorc and templar have access to a restro staff and heals because the class abilities are so powerful.

If this is the new meta abd the train has left the station give Magic DK the same level of burst because a DoT class is garbage in high burst pvp. It is worst because magic dk is a low burst dot class with low survivability. Flamelash hits like a wet noodle compared to other spammable melee instants.

You know Sorcs... they are supposed to wear light armor so designed with powerful shields that synergieze with dps and mobility. The annoying damn teleport..... Magic DK was designed for heavy armor but due to poor resource management have to wear light but no heavy shields and no mobility. Yes, they can wear heavy armor but come on... you are so limited with resources what is the point.

So basically you're saying that NB's have always been strong, Sorcs have always been strong, Templars just got buffed up, but now Mag DK sucks...

Mag DK has been bad for a long time. This whole patch seemed dedicated to buffing DK's, and if it didn't get your class to where you are satisfied with it, then it probably just is not going to happen. If that's the case it's time to Re-Roll or quit just like everybody else.

I have leveled 4 toons to Vet levels and three to Vet 16. I spent alot of time leveling a Stam Sorc, just to find that is arguably one of the most underpowered builds for PVP. And Stam Sorc didnt get a single change this patch, unlike the entire page of DK buffs.I have a vet 10 Imperial DK that I have let sit for awhile because I can tell that it will make a good tank, but it's just not for me.

Nobody is forcing you to play a DK. Its not like Zeni just decides your class and you're stuck with it. Re-Roll whatever you want. Roll a NB, and wreck people if thats what works. Sure , PVP is mostly all NB's and Sorcs already, but what's one more? But if you want to play an underdog class then enjoy the victories when they come, and take it like a man when you lose. And please don't cry for nerfs to all other classes because you can't DoT people do death on your DK in PVP. If anything, ask for more buffs to your class to bring it up to that level. But as stated, you just got a ton of buffs, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

Regarding VD...Was it the right move, probably not. But it is available to all classes and builds. It also at least makes groups consider having to be careful, instead of being 100% infallible due to overwhelming numbers. It has nothing to do with any specific class. Throw it on your DK, and nuke people with siege weapons. Or don't i don't care. The FOTM bomb builds will likely fizzle out eventually, as people adapt to the changes and provide less opportunities for people to make huge plays by just standing around in groups.

NB were relatively bad at the games release but cried so much on the forums the devs buffed them to ridiculous levels. Using your logic they should have kept quit and re-rolled a DK. I want a balanced game. If that requires a nerf to every single NB ability then good. Do it. To state Magic DKs suck and you should just reroll is stupid. Last I checked NB can play both magic and Stam effectively. There is absolutely no excuse for Magic DKs to be in its current state.

Buffs do not always work for overall class balance and just constantly buffing abilities causes major problems. Everything is relative. You can either reduce a class abilities damage by 25% or buff the other class defense by 25%. Other than accounting for the health pool what is the difference.... Pvp damage needs to be toned down so players can actual play it..... lol.

I get it. You play an NB and want to talk about balance only until your abilities get nerfed. Sorry my special snowflake. It does not work that way.

Finally that buff to other classes is a nerf to your class. This typically does not sink in to the OP crying crowd. The first time they lose it is the end of the world and the forums are full of tears. Balance is a bit*h.

MrTarkanian48 · April 2016

@Therium104

I'm just being realistic. They haven't fixed magic DK since before IC when I started playing the game. This patch was their attempt at doing it, but obviously you don't think you are at an equal level to the competition.

But when you say that the other three classes all have their burst damge, and DK doesn't, do you think its realistic that the developers are going to nerf all other classes burst damage just to make DoT damage relevant? It seems like if 1 out of 4 classes are out of balance, then that one should get buffed instead of everything else being nerfed.

I would like the game to be balanced. If you start a "Buff Flame Lash to be comparable to Concealed Weapon/C-Frags thread" I will gladly give you an "agree".

MisterBastahrd · April 2016

Main problem with ball groups is not the groups. It's the keeps. You need numbers to take and hold keeps and resources in large-scale combat, but the keeps are so small that groups have no choice but to ball up. Sure, you've got your OP nightblade ganker groups (interesting how all the proxy det / batswarm / steel tornado gankers have suddenly become proxy det / soul tether / vicious death gankers... Zenimax completely broke CC and it's allowing for many of these multikills), or magicka groups that are geared to the teeth and do nothing but proxy det and AOE spam, but for the most part, the reason why there are so many people in so little an area is because there's no freaking room to move around.

Therium104 · April 2016

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

@Therium104

I'm just being realistic. They haven't fixed magic DK since before IC when I started playing the game. This patch was their attempt at doing it, but obviously you don't think you are at an equal level to the competition.

But when you say that the other three classes all have their burst damge, and DK doesn't, do you think its realistic that the developers are going to nerf all other classes burst damage just to make DoT damage relevant? It seems like if 1 out of 4 classes are out of balance, then that one should get buffed instead of everything else being nerfed.

I would like the game to be balanced. If you start a "Buff Flame Lash to be comparable to Concealed Weapon/C-Frags thread" I will gladly give you an "agree".

That was why I started a thread to buff flamelash damage to concealed weapon/C frags level and also requested the devs change stone giant to a high damage ranged ability so all magic DKs a class ranged ability that does good damage.

Sk000tch · April 2016

AmalgamousPrime wrote: »

Stop crying about NBs, if your group got wrecked by VD a sorceror or templar can time an ultimate with proxy det just as easily as a NB can to get free AP off you meatballs that rotate each other as human shields while you ride the two button spam train to emperorship, where VD and proxy det lose even more effectiveness.

I am defending NB in this thread and do not support further nerfs to the class but this isn't really true. Sorc/templar have to use either meteor, dawn breaker or bats and try to stay up w shields or repentance, and sorcs do not have a target based gap closer - neither of these combinations combine the CC, mitigation, and speed (most importantly) of the proxy/tether combo.

Its absurd that a mediocre VD/CA NB can insta-wipe 20 pugs standing on a flag but honestly the game has such bigger problems. Its not NB as a class that's the problem, their damage is too high but so is everyone's right now.

Its not just VD either, I don't think VD would have been a problem without the other changes. Its not soul tether, CA set, decreased mobility, or decreased mitigation, heal debuffs, siege buff or forward camps. The problem is Zos seems to lack the foresight to predict the combined effect of A + B + C + D (and E, F, G, etc). As a result, PvP is what it is now. The zerg is stronger than ever.

And because of threads like this, endless youtube bomb vids, and all the subsequent crying, instead of fixing the underlying problem NB will probably get the axe.

kuro-dono · April 2016

is it normal to have 3x vicious death in my kill recap, from same person?

AmalgamousPrime · April 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

@Therium104
Too many people on the gravy train my friend.
You will be ignored or shouted down.
Seriously, time is almost up.

Sure there is tactics and strategy....and then there is numbers, gear and weaponry.
Either you carry the biggest stick...that hits everyone...with the biggest damage...all at the same time.
...or you die.

With camps the name of the game its not if you die.....but how many people you can kill before you die.
Camp and rez.
Its purely a DPS arms race.

This is an FPS game now.
Hit hardest, hit often, hit first, WIN.
If you can do that as a group.....even better.
No strategy or intelligence involved in that.
It is instagib 1vX skills to go with instagib 1v1 skills.

What gear are you wearing, what skills are you using.....errmmm der!
The IWIN one....
..because balance.

I am winning therefore game is balanced mentality...uhu
L2 exploitbrokencheesgearandskills P

I agree in a way. My issue is several classes are specifically designed to fit into this play syle better than others. NB is all burst and could be played by a kid with down syndrome and no thumbs but still rekt because it is so OP broken. The devs drank some paint before adjusting Templar so radiant destruction and dark flare hit like trucks. Sorc always had burst. Both Sorc and templar have access to a restro staff and heals because the class abilities are so powerful.

If this is the new meta abd the train has left the station give Magic DK the same level of burst because a DoT class is garbage in high burst pvp. It is worst because magic dk is a low burst dot class with low survivability. Flamelash hits like a wet noodle compared to other spammable melee instants.

You know Sorcs... they are supposed to wear light armor so designed with powerful shields that synergieze with dps and mobility. The annoying damn teleport..... Magic DK was designed for heavy armor but due to poor resource management have to wear light but no heavy shields and no mobility. Yes, they can wear heavy armor but come on... you are so limited with resources what is the point.

You are an extremely ignorant, vile human being. You joke about horrible circumstances like down syndrome and the effects of lead-based paint on cognitive development/function to get a point across because you are upset over a videogame? You are absolutely disgusting. Go outside and ponder what your life is right now..

bowmanz607 · April 2016

I don't want to here this nonsense about this set being op with a nb. What makes it op? Soul tether? Hate to break it to ya but proxy with any ult works just as fine. In fact, on my nb I use dawn breaker and set combo with magelight buff. All available to all classes. 8n fact, I have had more success with dawn breaker than tether.

coolermh · April 2016

I keep reading stuff like it takes no skill to do this...Anyone can 1 shot if your a nightblade...If it is that easy than why dont you do it...make a nightblade...

Its not as easy as you might think. I am guessing most the players doing "bombing" are very expert pvp players who know how to time bombs on groups that are not coordinated or conscious of the fact that when your just standing in a ball group. You should all at least be holding block.

1.) Avoid choke points
2.) Avoid sitting on the pin with more then 5 people and hold block
3.) Spread out as much as possible
4.)Block block and block.

In any mmo game there will always be imbalances. Go check wow forms....There is complaints there I am sure... Check diablo3...complaints.... Things will change everyone needs to chill out.

KundaliniHero · April 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

This is not that hard to comprehend. Some classes are better designed for burst and small group play. Primarily Nightblades. The combo currently being used includes proc det and vicious death to wipe much bigger groups and is essentially ruining pvp. People are currently just quiting cyrodil because it is stupid and pointless.

I have no idea where the devs get information but frankly PVP is a frigging ness. Classes are unbalanced. Ridiculously unbalanced. NB is still extremely overtuned. Templar is jacked up broken now. How can this game be out for this long and so jacked up.

Look... At no point should numbers no longer impact pvp. The premise behind these changes is frigging stupid and just favors the OP classes. At least the lower champion point players could find strength in numbers. Or the classes that are not broken OP could find success working as a team. Think about what these changes mean.

An OP nightblade should not also be able to wipe out much bigger groups. I know. It was unfair they could not take on 10 people at one time. [snip]

[edited for flamming]

There is no doubt Vicious Death is powerful in the right hands but to be honest as a magblade you do give up quit a bit of direct damage to run it, it's a one trick pony if you will. It also requires good timing and situational awareness. I do however have the world's smallest violin for zergs complaining about it's use especially since mobs of skilless as*hats spamming Steel Tornado, Wrecking Blow, Gap Closers etc have been ruining people's day for months, so the pendulum swings yet again. Furthermore those same morons are now running it in their zergs to overkill smaller groups, so there's that. The good news is you can make strategic adjustments to counter it, you'll be surprised how much a well timed block can mitigate alot of damage.

Was it an effective change to combat zergs?

Not even close. The set perfectly represents ZOS's long tradition of approaching balance with band-aid fixes, ie; Shield Breaker etc. anything to avoid the "remove aoe caps" conversation.

Is it ruining PVP?

Just a month ago the consensus was the very opposite, that zergs were ruining PVP. It doesn't ruin PVP for me but then again I dont have a massive ego to nurture. So I suppose it depends ultimately on you, the fact that you can stop playing the game at any time has got to be a liberating realization, its not very difficult, I have witnessed many people do it already. If your not having fun anymore the choice seems pretty clear to me.

Master_Kas · April 2016

PvP is elder skirts online again just like back at release.

You gimp yourself to much playing stamina build, unless you only want to be used for spamming bombard to *** people off xD