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Vicious Death and State of PVP

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  • strikeback1247
    strikeback1247
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    Therium104 wrote: »
    strikeback1247 wrote: »
    Therium104 wrote: »
    Sk000tch wrote: »
    Therium104 wrote: »
    Dude. The reason you can is because the game is not balanced. A group of 10 NB can be elite while a group of 10 Magic DK cannot because I promise you due to poor game design the NB will be much more successful.

    Again. You are confusing skill with the easy mode sandwich ESO has given you scrubs for the past year. At what point does killing players by spamming the A and B button in 2 seconds bring up the red flag something is wrong. Oh I forgot it takes skill to spam the A button. My bad.... lol. Now add on VD and your spamming kills 10 people. Balanced!!!

    You really don't know what you're talking about.

    First off, mag DK kicks ass this patch, just seems not many have figured it out yet. NB are what they've always been, l2p... slot radiant and harness, spread out and quit bitching.

    Its true that VD has changed the game, but it succeeded in countering much of what we have been complaining about. And while PvP has changed a lot, its not all due to VD. The siege buff, barrier nerf, rapids nerf, forward camps, and change to CP trees have had equally large effects.

    It was worse before. An elite 24 man group was unstoppable, but the nerfs to mitigation, healing and maneuverability have changed that. You could have a whole faction of PUGs defending a keep and they would be powerless against a tight group with sequential 25k barriers spamming rapids and timed proxies. Now, mobility is totally ***, everyone has proxy, VD drops so frequently that anyone can get it, and any scrub with 1800 AP can set up siege and be a legitimate threat.

    Lol.. you are clueless. Denial is a good thing my little snowflake. Keep sucking the ESO easy mode *** but be kind of honest. At least try? Nah. You can't... can you :(

    Well that was the greatest constructive comment I've seen in a while.

    I like this situation much more than the old situation when the winming faction always consisted of ballgroups. Once upon a time, someone invented ballgroups to bust zergs as an organized team... Then, like with anything else in this game, the ballgroups turned to the dark side and actually became the ones zerging. That *** was so horrendous. Nothing except for another ball group could stop them, but that always turned into a lagfest nightmare when two ballgroups clashed. Now a single player can jump in and wipe 10+ people :D

    Yes, organized and compeitive pvp is a bad thing. Right..... Lets just make it so one class (NB) can spam a few buttons and steam roll teams. It is a great idea!!!

    Organized PvP is fine, but the organized groups that were meant to stop the big bad zergs turned into the big bad zergs. Organized PvP has its dark sides. People stacking on crown, spamming steelnado and BoL, running as a blob through keeps to lag the entire server. This is what had to be stopped and the VD + proxi det combo does a pretty good job at stopping exactly that.
    P.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!
  • Therium104
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    strikeback1247 wrote: »
    Therium104 wrote: »
    strikeback1247 wrote: »
    Therium104 wrote: »
    Sk000tch wrote: »
    Therium104 wrote: »
    Dude. The reason you can is because the game is not balanced. A group of 10 NB can be elite while a group of 10 Magic DK cannot because I promise you due to poor game design the NB will be much more successful.

    Again. You are confusing skill with the easy mode sandwich ESO has given you scrubs for the past year. At what point does killing players by spamming the A and B button in 2 seconds bring up the red flag something is wrong. Oh I forgot it takes skill to spam the A button. My bad.... lol. Now add on VD and your spamming kills 10 people. Balanced!!!

    You really don't know what you're talking about.

    First off, mag DK kicks ass this patch, just seems not many have figured it out yet. NB are what they've always been, l2p... slot radiant and harness, spread out and quit bitching.

    Its true that VD has changed the game, but it succeeded in countering much of what we have been complaining about. And while PvP has changed a lot, its not all due to VD. The siege buff, barrier nerf, rapids nerf, forward camps, and change to CP trees have had equally large effects.

    It was worse before. An elite 24 man group was unstoppable, but the nerfs to mitigation, healing and maneuverability have changed that. You could have a whole faction of PUGs defending a keep and they would be powerless against a tight group with sequential 25k barriers spamming rapids and timed proxies. Now, mobility is totally ***, everyone has proxy, VD drops so frequently that anyone can get it, and any scrub with 1800 AP can set up siege and be a legitimate threat.

    Lol.. you are clueless. Denial is a good thing my little snowflake. Keep sucking the ESO easy mode *** but be kind of honest. At least try? Nah. You can't... can you :(

    Well that was the greatest constructive comment I've seen in a while.

    I like this situation much more than the old situation when the winming faction always consisted of ballgroups. Once upon a time, someone invented ballgroups to bust zergs as an organized team... Then, like with anything else in this game, the ballgroups turned to the dark side and actually became the ones zerging. That *** was so horrendous. Nothing except for another ball group could stop them, but that always turned into a lagfest nightmare when two ballgroups clashed. Now a single player can jump in and wipe 10+ people :D

    Yes, organized and compeitive pvp is a bad thing. Right..... Lets just make it so one class (NB) can spam a few buttons and steam roll teams. It is a great idea!!!

    Organized PvP is fine, but the organized groups that were meant to stop the big bad zergs turned into the big bad zergs. Organized PvP has its dark sides. People stacking on crown, spamming steelnado and BoL, running as a blob through keeps to lag the entire server. This is what had to be stopped and the VD + proxi det combo does a pretty good job at stopping exactly that.

    Organized is organized. If you don't like the way people organize and work as a team creating Vicious Death is not the answer.
  • strikeback1247
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    Therium104 wrote: »
    strikeback1247 wrote: »
    Therium104 wrote: »
    strikeback1247 wrote: »
    Therium104 wrote: »
    Sk000tch wrote: »
    Therium104 wrote: »
    Dude. The reason you can is because the game is not balanced. A group of 10 NB can be elite while a group of 10 Magic DK cannot because I promise you due to poor game design the NB will be much more successful.

    Again. You are confusing skill with the easy mode sandwich ESO has given you scrubs for the past year. At what point does killing players by spamming the A and B button in 2 seconds bring up the red flag something is wrong. Oh I forgot it takes skill to spam the A button. My bad.... lol. Now add on VD and your spamming kills 10 people. Balanced!!!

    You really don't know what you're talking about.

    First off, mag DK kicks ass this patch, just seems not many have figured it out yet. NB are what they've always been, l2p... slot radiant and harness, spread out and quit bitching.

    Its true that VD has changed the game, but it succeeded in countering much of what we have been complaining about. And while PvP has changed a lot, its not all due to VD. The siege buff, barrier nerf, rapids nerf, forward camps, and change to CP trees have had equally large effects.

    It was worse before. An elite 24 man group was unstoppable, but the nerfs to mitigation, healing and maneuverability have changed that. You could have a whole faction of PUGs defending a keep and they would be powerless against a tight group with sequential 25k barriers spamming rapids and timed proxies. Now, mobility is totally ***, everyone has proxy, VD drops so frequently that anyone can get it, and any scrub with 1800 AP can set up siege and be a legitimate threat.

    Lol.. you are clueless. Denial is a good thing my little snowflake. Keep sucking the ESO easy mode *** but be kind of honest. At least try? Nah. You can't... can you :(

    Well that was the greatest constructive comment I've seen in a while.

    I like this situation much more than the old situation when the winming faction always consisted of ballgroups. Once upon a time, someone invented ballgroups to bust zergs as an organized team... Then, like with anything else in this game, the ballgroups turned to the dark side and actually became the ones zerging. That *** was so horrendous. Nothing except for another ball group could stop them, but that always turned into a lagfest nightmare when two ballgroups clashed. Now a single player can jump in and wipe 10+ people :D

    Yes, organized and compeitive pvp is a bad thing. Right..... Lets just make it so one class (NB) can spam a few buttons and steam roll teams. It is a great idea!!!

    Organized PvP is fine, but the organized groups that were meant to stop the big bad zergs turned into the big bad zergs. Organized PvP has its dark sides. People stacking on crown, spamming steelnado and BoL, running as a blob through keeps to lag the entire server. This is what had to be stopped and the VD + proxi det combo does a pretty good job at stopping exactly that.

    Organized is organized. If you don't like the way people organize and work as a team creating Vicious Death is not the answer.

    Yeah "organized is organized", but some types of organization can be really bad for the game. "organized is organized" when groups are purposely lagging the servers to get an advantage. "organized is organized" when people purposely create buff servers and stay up every night to PvDoor. "organized is organized" when guilds emp boost scrub emps that can't even play without 10 healers keeping them alive. All organized teamwork that is, in most people's eyes, killing the game.

    A better answer to ball groups would have been to remove AOE caps and see how that would've worked out. They could also have buffed proxi det against zergs much more and nerfed it against single targets like many people asked. However, VD is a decent solution against those ball groups.

    P.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!
  • Sk000tch
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    strikeback1247 wrote: »

    A better answer to ball groups would have been to remove AOE caps and see how that would've worked out. They could also have buffed proxi det against zergs much more and nerfed it against single targets like many people asked. However, VD is a decent solution against those ball groups.

    I hate the word ball groups. Under previous meta, staying tight with coordinated movement, maximizing mitigation, speed and burst aoe dmg was the most effective way to play - both in terms of ap/hr and accomplishing objectives, particularly when drastically outnumbered.

    That has changed somewhat, but it isn't VD that did it. VD is just one source of damage. But damage is up across the board while mitigation, healing and mobility have been nerfed hard. At least VD can be mitigated significantly, and really only comes into play as punishment after you've already made a mistake.

  • T@rty
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    Sk000tch wrote: »
    strikeback1247 wrote: »

    At least VD can be mitigated significantly, and really only comes into play as punishment after you've already made a mistake.

    What the mistake of of not equipping VD and respeccing to magicka?

    Seriously, stamina in pvp is only viable against a single target and is NOT shield stacking. Magicka is the way forward and stamina is not even worth considering if you want to have an enjoyable pvp experience.
  • Xsorus
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    Don't stack up and you won't have to deal with VD killing you..Its a really simple concept.

    But lets talk about people referring to NBs as being overpowered now after the changes.

    NBs single target after the patch are weaker then before the patch.

    Their Cloak isn't nearly as powerful; VD doesn't work against Single Targets..and the damage is less then before the patch cause Prox Det does less damage now against single targets (its still to much damage for single target..but it is less damage then before)

    I believe someone in here said they can't do arena anymore cause they're dying...Why are they dying? Because they're stacking up....Don't bloody stack up...Its that simple.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
    ESO and GW2 PvP videos
  • Xsorus
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    bicketybam wrote: »
    What makes matters worse is that the 2, 3 and 4 piece bonuses of VD are actually good. You don't sacrifice much at all to put on this OP armor set. And it includes jewelry! I play a stamina DK and have little to no desire to go back into Cyrodiil or IC. I can't even reflect a freakin' comet any more.

    Actually you do sacrifice by running this setup..Because the setup usually requires Alchemist to go along with it.

    The whole idea about the setup is going for the Huge Burst to bring someone down....Now there is one thing you'll notice about VD/WillPower/Alchemist setup...It has no Magicka Recovery...Which means you're sitting at around 800 if you're lucky..You can lower your damage by dropping things like Shadow Mundus for example...But then you're reducing your chance at wiping the groups you're building specifically to kill.

    Now running 800 Magicka Recovery is not fun..Because it means you're going to suffer in any fight where you don't flat out kill your opponent. Classes like Templar and Sorc for example will absolutely wreck your face if you don't out right kill them at the start.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
    ESO and GW2 PvP videos
  • Therium104
    Therium104
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    bicketybam wrote: »
    What makes matters worse is that the 2, 3 and 4 piece bonuses of VD are actually good. You don't sacrifice much at all to put on this OP armor set. And it includes jewelry! I play a stamina DK and have little to no desire to go back into Cyrodiil or IC. I can't even reflect a freakin' comet any more.

    Actually you do sacrifice by running this setup..Because the setup usually requires Alchemist to go along with it.

    The whole idea about the setup is going for the Huge Burst to bring someone down....Now there is one thing you'll notice about VD/WillPower/Alchemist setup...It has no Magicka Recovery...Which means you're sitting at around 800 if you're lucky..You can lower your damage by dropping things like Shadow Mundus for example...But then you're reducing your chance at wiping the groups you're building specifically to kill.

    Now running 800 Magicka Recovery is not fun..Because it means you're going to suffer in any fight where you don't flat out kill your opponent. Classes like Templar and Sorc for example will absolutely wreck your face if you don't out right kill them at the start.

    Lol yea. We were laughing about it tonight. Not only is the premise behind the set utterly and completely stupid but again it favors NB. Is ESO going to take the easy mode *** out of the NB players mouth.

    NB should be ashamed of how OP their class is...
    Edited by Therium104 on April 3, 2016 3:45AM
  • Sk000tch
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    Therium104 wrote: »

    Lol yea. We were laughing about it tonight. Not only is the premise behind the set utterly and completely stupid but again it favors NB. Is ESO going to take the easy mode *** out of the NB players mouth.

    NB should be ashamed of how OP their class is...

    I love you dude. You've got this super funny raging Sam Kinison kind of thing going on. I bet you are fun in guild chat

    I can't even figure out what you are so pissed about? This thread was about viscous death being OP, but it seems more like it's really about NB being OP. Same post you said Templars are broken and OP, and in another sorcs and their shields too. That's 3 of the 4 classes!

    So you can probably imagine my surprise when I clicked that DK thread and there you are complaining about how bad magicka DK suck!

    Which is weird right, because several of the best players I know grind up DK before TG bc they were going to be so good. Even more crazy, my bro nesquikkid posted a vid, mid-grind at lvl 37, wrecking (you're not gonna believe this part) a NB, sorc, and a Templar!

    DK are OP!
    Therium104 wrote: »
    Classes are unbalanced. Ridiculously unbalanced. NB is still extremely overtuned. Templar is jacked up broken now.

    ...

    Look... At no point should numbers no longer impact pvp. The premise behind these changes is frigging stupid and just favors the OP classes ... the classes that are not broken OP could find success working as a team. Think about what these changes mean.

    An OP nightblade should not also be able to wipe out much bigger groups.

    Numbers? All 3 OP classes? Gimped DK 20 levels below them wrecks all 3...

    Why? nesquik don't suck.

    Look man, I get it. Seems like you've had a bad time in pvp lately. It happens to all of us. But forum QQ, calling for nerfs to every class but your own, and bitching about OP gear ain't the answer.

    nesquik is fam, real good dude. I'm sure he'd be willing to help you with your build if you stop trying to get literally every single class but your own nerfed.

    (Ps - don't watch his NB vids)




  • Mojomonkeyman
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    Sk000tch wrote: »
    Therium104 wrote: »

    Lol yea. We were laughing about it tonight. Not only is the premise behind the set utterly and completely stupid but again it favors NB. Is ESO going to take the easy mode *** out of the NB players mouth.

    NB should be ashamed of how OP their class is...

    I love you dude. You've got this super funny raging Sam Kinison kind of thing going on. I bet you are fun in guild chat

    I can't even figure out what you are so pissed about? This thread was about viscous death being OP, but it seems more like it's really about NB being OP. Same post you said Templars are broken and OP, and in another sorcs and their shields too. That's 3 of the 4 classes!

    So you can probably imagine my surprise when I clicked that DK thread and there you are complaining about how bad magicka DK suck!

    Which is weird right, because several of the best players I know grind up DK before TG bc they were going to be so good. Even more crazy, my bro nesquikkid posted a vid, mid-grind at lvl 37, wrecking (you're not gonna believe this part) a NB, sorc, and a Templar!

    DK are OP!
    Therium104 wrote: »
    Classes are unbalanced. Ridiculously unbalanced. NB is still extremely overtuned. Templar is jacked up broken now.

    ...

    Look... At no point should numbers no longer impact pvp. The premise behind these changes is frigging stupid and just favors the OP classes ... the classes that are not broken OP could find success working as a team. Think about what these changes mean.

    An OP nightblade should not also be able to wipe out much bigger groups.

    Numbers? All 3 OP classes? Gimped DK 20 levels below them wrecks all 3...

    Why? nesquik don't suck.

    Look man, I get it. Seems like you've had a bad time in pvp lately. It happens to all of us. But forum QQ, calling for nerfs to every class but your own, and bitching about OP gear ain't the answer.

    nesquik is fam, real good dude. I'm sure he'd be willing to help you with your build if you stop trying to get literally every single class but your own nerfed.

    (Ps - don't watch his NB vids)




    You do know, that mid 30-mid 40 chars can be made stronger than v16, right?

    If you know, you are a hypocrite. If you dont, you shouldnt act as patronizing as you do.

    Amirite?
    Edited by Mojomonkeyman on April 3, 2016 6:15AM
    Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy
  • Brrrofski
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    Well I've been playing on a campaigning has three bars of red and yellow and no bars for us. We're in a group of 10-20 usually trying to fight reds and yellows who severely outnumber us.

    Funny thing is a lot other yellows are running vicous death. So as an outnumbered group, sticking together is our best chance. Until a yellow nb with vicious death comes along.

    Zergs use these too. How did ZOS not forsee what would happen with it?
  • damtotb16_ESO
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    Until this day it was always possible to adapt to class changes or new powerful items introduced. Those that can not will always complain and ask for 'balancing' to compensate they skill level. There will always be players who will own you so stop complaining and try to bring you game to higher level
  • milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
    milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
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    Cathexis wrote: »
    I'd like to take this time to remember how good the game was when we had soft caps.
    For REAL.

    I have no idea how they're going to balance the nerf-buff yo-yo without bringing them back.

    And I also have no idea how they're going to salvage PvP at all without fixing the lag.

    I'm really starting to think the technology they're currently using simply isn't up to the task of AvAvA.
  • The-Baconator
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    Mojomonkeyman wrote: »
    Sk000tch wrote: »
    Therium104 wrote: »

    Lol yea. We were laughing about it tonight. Not only is the premise behind the set utterly and completely stupid but again it favors NB. Is ESO going to take the easy mode *** out of the NB players mouth.

    NB should be ashamed of how OP their class is...

    I love you dude. You've got this super funny raging Sam Kinison kind of thing going on. I bet you are fun in guild chat

    I can't even figure out what you are so pissed about? This thread was about viscous death being OP, but it seems more like it's really about NB being OP. Same post you said Templars are broken and OP, and in another sorcs and their shields too. That's 3 of the 4 classes!

    So you can probably imagine my surprise when I clicked that DK thread and there you are complaining about how bad magicka DK suck!

    Which is weird right, because several of the best players I know grind up DK before TG bc they were going to be so good. Even more crazy, my bro nesquikkid posted a vid, mid-grind at lvl 37, wrecking (you're not gonna believe this part) a NB, sorc, and a Templar!

    DK are OP!
    Therium104 wrote: »
    Classes are unbalanced. Ridiculously unbalanced. NB is still extremely overtuned. Templar is jacked up broken now.

    ...

    Look... At no point should numbers no longer impact pvp. The premise behind these changes is frigging stupid and just favors the OP classes ... the classes that are not broken OP could find success working as a team. Think about what these changes mean.

    An OP nightblade should not also be able to wipe out much bigger groups.

    Numbers? All 3 OP classes? Gimped DK 20 levels below them wrecks all 3...

    Why? nesquik don't suck.

    Look man, I get it. Seems like you've had a bad time in pvp lately. It happens to all of us. But forum QQ, calling for nerfs to every class but your own, and bitching about OP gear ain't the answer.

    nesquik is fam, real good dude. I'm sure he'd be willing to help you with your build if you stop trying to get literally every single class but your own nerfed.

    (Ps - don't watch his NB vids)




    You do know, that mid 30-mid 40 chars can be made stronger than v16, right?

    If you know, you are a hypocrite. If you dont, you shouldnt act as patronizing as you do.

    Amirite?

    At that time he was running in highly outdated gear, he wasn't a golded out lvl 47 with level appropriate willpower jewelry. The point I think he was trying to make is that Magicka nb works the best with VD out of all possible specs, but each magicka class can use the set effectively.

    As for the set itself, I think most agree its a sad joke. Yes the strength of ballgroups was an issue, but there are many other changes ZOS could have made that are so much better than making prox-gapclose-ult-profit the main way to zergbust. Watching people you know to be terribad instantly kill +10 on a flag because of vd is something of a sad joke. Yes the obligatory L2P comment is fitting in that scenario, but I don't see why L2P would be less appropriate when bad players are feeding a good player ultimate which said good player then uses to win the fight, rather than a one second instawin combo from stealth. Personally I feel like both parties would prefer the latter.
    First PS4 NA Grand Overlord, Stormproof, and Flawless Conqueror.
    Potato Lord of Atrocity
  • dexylicious
    dexylicious
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    Yeah, I'm boycotting arena now, its total garbage, to farm for hours and lose all your stones to two NBs who wipe your whole group, no thanks.
  • Jackrs04
    Jackrs04
    Soul Shriven
    I really can't figure why all you are saying that the counter to VD is to stop stacking and you are not recognizing that it is a broken and chesy mechanic:

    When do you broke a wall do you have to enter in the keep one by one at time to prevent being bombed?

    In a flag you have to put only one guy to take it and the rest spreading around?

    Do you need to group with your friends to play or play solo to prevent stacking?

    The VD + magicka det is the worst mechanic implemented in a game. In particular for what they are the real intentions of it:

    -prevent stacking(stacking as ever and ever be a group mechanic: the group is stronger than the lone wolf)
    -prevent lag(!!!!!!)

    This is the real problem: zos gave us a chesy mechabic which ruins gameplay by uniforming it only to prevent that their game is lagging! Thisi is absurd and insulting. And we are a bounce of idiots if we are here discussing if VD is balanced or not: it is absurd by its very means of being.
  • timidobserver
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    Therium104 wrote: »
    LBxFinalDeath wrote: »
    Numbers still impact pvp.

    If you have 50 players on your side against 10.

    You will win still if you're all spread out and not all foaming at the mouth spamming gap closers at the same target which is common for zergs to do as I'm sure you know.

    Now Vicious Death gives that group of 10 a fair shot if the zerg all gap closes to the same target and the small group can burst down at least a few of the opposing larger group.

    My problem is that in most cases its the group of 50 running VD against small groups of sub 5 players constantly unless the fights at a highly contested siege.

    AT NO POINT SHOULD A GROUP OF 10 PLAYERS WIPE 50. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF UNBALANCED. It also favors a few classes and builds that were already grossly OP at the expense of the majority of paying customers.

    Zergling mad.
    V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
    V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
    V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
    V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
    V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)

  • Azurya
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    On VD it is true that it bring advantages for those who wear it and can handle it.
    And any class can wear it. Actually my V16StaminaSorc wears it in PvP and have to admit, she kills much more now!

    So in mho it is not about classes you have to complain, you have to complain about gamers who really can handle their characters and make the most out of it.

    Following your idea Therium those people should be banned/nerfed so you can play your char without doing much to gain succes.
    That is not the way it works, get up and change your build going for excellence!

    I was after 1.6 also in such a black hole. The only thing that helps you there is yourself, cause Zeni just don´t changes anything to make you or me happy. That is something we have to work on ourself.

    See you on the battlefield!
  • Sk000tch
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    Mojomonkeyman wrote: »
    You do know, that mid 30-mid 40 chars can be made stronger than v16, right?

    If you know, you are a hypocrite. If you dont, you shouldnt act as patronizing as you do.

    Amirite?

    I understand battle leveling. As bacon said, at the time Nes was in garbage gear. I don't see how that makes me a hypocrite, but I should probably be less condescending. It was just too perfect a clip, given what he was complaining about, not to post.

    These threads are irritating though, and follow a particular formula. OP posts complaint that class/set/skill is OP, other users respond with tips about how to counter it, QQ train jumps in crying for nerf. In this thread, one particular whiney poster was crying for nerfs to basically every single class (other the his own, of course).

    All this vocal minority whining is a contributing factor in why these things get worse in subsequent patches.

    We whined about zergs and zos responded. The zergs aren't better, but because they don't seem to understand their own game, the opposite has happened. VD has made me fear my own factions Zerg more than opposition faction, but it's really the other changes that have made the enemy zerg more problematic. This patch took an axe to balance not a scalpel. Damage is way up, and nerfs to mitigation, healing, mobility and siege, all have made it more difficult for small coordinated groups to take objectives against superior numbers.

    At least VD goes both ways. The stats are mediocre, and cause you to give up damage and sustain for the proc. And, all those blue explosions after Entopy-proxy-dawnbreaker in that Zerg blob are fun, and while seeing it on your recap is irritating, at least it's usually because I (or one of my mates) made a mistake. It's a band aid fix to what is apparently an unsolvable problem for Zos, but at least it's fun and can be countered. I can live with that.

    What really sucks is that small coordinated groups can no longer sustain high mobility with damage mitigation and healing, and that is critical in dealing with less coordinated aoe spamming Zergs (partially now that everyone has proxy). The rapids, major expedition, and unreliability of immovable pots have killed mobility. Barrier, BoL, and addition of more heal debuffs have decreased healing. Everything is becoming more stationary. The best remaining heals and mitigation tools are stationary. Siege is stationary. Forward camps are stationary. It's boring, and shifts the advantage to numbers over good group tactics, which is the opposite of what we wanted.
  • americansteel
    americansteel
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    it makes so much sense to come up with ideas why VD was made. the famous "zerg busting" notion! hahahahaha

    ESO PvP was marketed as latge scale battle, VD will do nothing to change server numbers.

    new campaigns would be nice!
    NO LONGER PLAYING ESO

    POOR SERVER PERFORMANCE
    LAG
    LOAD SCREENS
    DONE
  • Therium104
    Therium104
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    r.groenb16_ESO wrote: »
    On VD it is true that it bring advantages for those who wear it and can handle it.
    And any class can wear it. Actually my V16StaminaSorc wears it in PvP and have to admit, she kills much more now!

    So in mho it is not about classes you have to complain, you have to complain about gamers who really can handle their characters and make the most out of it.

    Following your idea Therium those people should be banned/nerfed so you can play your char without doing much to gain succes.
    That is not the way it works, get up and change your build going for excellence!

    I was after 1.6 also in such a black hole. The only thing that helps you there is yourself, cause Zeni just don´t changes anything to make you or me happy. That is something we have to work on ourself.

    See you on the battlefield!

    You have no grasp of logic. VD is stupid because it had a ridiculous high damage proc for a equipment set. The premise behind it is stupid and favors high burst classes over others. I know you want to spam the A button and also be able to wipe a group but for the rest of us that know this is dumb. Well, l2p
  • allstarplayergk
    allstarplayergk
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    VD is just boring really...it's not beating players how
    It was intended, my groups are organized, we don't stack, and we are vigilant around flags, we have adapted everywhere possible. I think baconator caught me sleeping on a flag once, but 100% of my recaps have had VD on it over the last 3 days(when not dueling) and it's never a well thought out a kill. Instead of breaking up zergs its just incentivized being in one that requires everyone to run proxy/VD. How does an elite group of 12 fight a group of 30 scrubs all using the same build. Even in a keep take, everyone's saying "spread out", how much can you spread out in a court yard when the wall comes down and 60+ people run out with the that combo. All the siege, barriers, debuffs in the world won't help. My point is zerging is now worse than it's ever been, and the current meta requires less skill than ever
    Edited by allstarplayergk on April 3, 2016 7:12PM
  • Van_0S
    Van_0S
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    LBxFinalDeath wrote: »
    My problem is that in most cases its the group of 50 running VD against small groups of sub 5 players constantly unless the fights at a highly contested siege.

    ^^ I couldn't have said better to describe VD. This is the major problem.
  • Nutshotz
    Nutshotz
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    @Therium104 let me guess, this is now a nerf nb thread again. ROFLMFAO! Seriously go play a stamina nb than go play a magica nb, than tell me the difference. I play both classes as well as the other 3. Sorc, dk, templar. Reading a lot of noob posts from players that have been in game for 3-6 months no jack *** of what unbalanced is! Or what the remaining few players that are still around since beta/launch will tell you the same thing. Play all the classes, both builds (stam/magic) than make a post on what is op and what isnt.

    Nutz out~
  • strikeback1247
    strikeback1247
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    ✭
    Therium104 wrote: »
    r.groenb16_ESO wrote: »
    On VD it is true that it bring advantages for those who wear it and can handle it.
    And any class can wear it. Actually my V16StaminaSorc wears it in PvP and have to admit, she kills much more now!

    So in mho it is not about classes you have to complain, you have to complain about gamers who really can handle their characters and make the most out of it.

    Following your idea Therium those people should be banned/nerfed so you can play your char without doing much to gain succes.
    That is not the way it works, get up and change your build going for excellence!

    I was after 1.6 also in such a black hole. The only thing that helps you there is yourself, cause Zeni just don´t changes anything to make you or me happy. That is something we have to work on ourself.

    See you on the battlefield!

    You have no grasp of logic. VD is stupid because it had a ridiculous high damage proc for a equipment set. The premise behind it is stupid and favors high burst classes over others. I know you want to spam the A button and also be able to wipe a group but for the rest of us that know this is dumb. Well, l2p

    You said it boy: "l2p"

    You should really take your own advice.
    P.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!
  • Cryhavoc
    Cryhavoc
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    Agree or Disagree?

    Any set that absolutely everyone should wear in PvP, regardless of build, to maintain an advantage (except in a 1v1 scenario or a duel)....

    Is broken.
  • Therium104
    Therium104
    ✭✭✭
    PeaNutShotz wrote: »
    @Therium104 let me guess, this is now a nerf nb thread again. ROFLMFAO! Seriously go play a stamina nb than go play a magica nb, than tell me the difference. I play both classes as well as the other 3. Sorc, dk, templar. Reading a lot of noob posts from players that have been in game for 3-6 months no jack *** of what unbalanced is! Or what the remaining few players that are still around since beta/launch will tell you the same thing. Play all the classes, both builds (stam/magic) than make a post on what is op and what isnt.

    Nutz out~

    Lol. Stop crying scrub. In order for VD to work you must kill another player. NB are suited to burst and now when a no skill NB kills another player by spamming the A button they wipe out an entire group.

    The premise behind all of this is stupid. You cannot have 5 players wipe out larger groups without breaking the game. You whiners have no limit.

    Finally, if this game is ever going to be balanced NB are going to require substantial nerfs to damage. Bottom line.
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    Cryhavoc wrote: »
    Agree or Disagree?

    Any set that absolutely everyone should wear in PvP, regardless of build, to maintain an advantage (except in a 1v1 scenario or a duel)....

    Is broken.

    Not everyone should wear it.

    Stamina Users shouldn't wear it.

    Anyone who's interesting in 1v1 Ganking Most certainly shouldn't wear it.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
    ESO and GW2 PvP videos
  • RinaldoGandolphi
    RinaldoGandolphi
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    As I'm on my phone and can't type much, but regardless of class, etc...this game is so stupidly broken.

    The nerf to every form of mobility has buffed snares beyond the realm of reason, everywhere you go is AOE snare spamming Bombard, sip an Immovable pot and be triple cc with wrecking blow, fire reach, and meteor back to back.

    Survivabity has been nerfed into the ground. The only survivable builds (somewhat tanks) only do well in a group and since escape is gone for all classes now, eso has become a fantasy call of duty.

    They have ruined their own game. Trust me folks it won't be fixed anytime soon, they left DK broken for over a year, Stam blades were broken for over a year, Sorcs could be said to be broken as well. Even Templars are broken Zerg surfers.

    I hadn't played for a few weeks I played a bit this weekend, and honestly, if that is any indication of this games future,then it has none.

    For pvp pop if, well not if, when VE leaves for CU pvp on NA OC will be dead because DC doesn't have the pop numbers to even hope to compete. I watched EP outnumber DC 6-1 at every turn this weekend and AD was fairing no better easily outnumbered 5-1. All the big AD guilds are gone, DC best guild looks like they are on their way out due to a broken game, it will only be a matter of time until DC has no presence left in the game, Atleast not one that can make any map moves which effectively turns it into a 2 faction game that will quickly become just 1

    The EP outnumber both AD and DC on TF right now by ridiculous numbers. They were fighting 20 on 20 AD siege on Alessia while still fielding 50+ on glade the other night no way AD let alone DC can even hope to compete that stupidly outnumbered. The only reason we were not gate camped is because EP wants something to do, I'd hardly call that pvp

    Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
    Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
    Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
    Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
    RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
    Officer Fire and Ice
    Co-GM - MVP



    Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

    "Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • AmalgamousPrime
    AmalgamousPrime
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    @therium104 Try playing a magicka NB, see if you still think low damage, costly abilities are OP. Concealed weapon is a joke against templars heals, sorceror shields, or anyone running annulment. Their kit is weak and the only reason you are saying they are OP is because of proximity det which is available to every class.
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