Is IC a PvP Update?

frozywozy

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

It will be once they make districts capturable and change the spawning mechanics in there.

Etaniel

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

Xsorus wrote: »

Darkness Falls worked the same way as IC...it is a PvP update

Except that to open df you had to capture PvP objectives. So the zone itself was reward for doing PvP. There's only one campaign where that's the case here, and the dungeons can be reached without having access to the zone, so no, it's not a PvP update here. DF was miles ahead of this dlc

Septimus_Magna

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

Its a pve zone with pvp enabled, every single "challenge" is focused towards killing npcs.

You can compare it to a big version of a Cyrodiil public dungeon, which is also pve content with pvp enabled.

Lucky28

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

It is my favorite zone. but it is entirely irrelevant, i really wish ZoS would revisit it.

K4RMA

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

AfkNinja wrote: »

I get the argument of no pvp objectives sure, but....

1. Can you kill enemy players? Yes
2. Is the zone in a pvp zone? Yes
3. Can you loot enemy bodies? Yes (stones)
4. Can you gank weak pve'ers who don't know how to pvp? Yes


If it only counts as pvp when there are objectives then everything I did in Age of Conan wasn't pvp and yet...it was?

They should add pvp objectives, but yes imo it's still a PVP expansion. It's a shame they didn't add objectives tho, on that I agree.

i agree

Septimus_Magna

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

AfkNinja wrote: »

I get the argument of no pvp objectives sure, but....

1. Can you kill enemy players? Yes
2. Is the zone in a pvp zone? Yes
3. Can you loot enemy bodies? Yes (stones)
4. Can you gank weak pve'ers who don't know how to pvp? Yes


If it only counts as pvp when there are objectives then everything I did in Age of Conan wasn't pvp and yet...it was?

They should add pvp objectives, but yes imo it's still a PVP expansion. It's a shame they didn't add objectives tho, on that I agree.

You dont get anything for killing players if they havent directly or indirectly killed NPCs.

If everyone would go into IC and just fight other players the only reward would be a bit of AP and XP.
How can IC be considered pvp content if there isnt even a reward system for killing players?

Also, if ZOS would remove the ability to fight other players in IC the impact of that change would be very small in the current state. You would still have Molag Bal in the middle, sewer/district bosses, trove scamps, NPCs dropping trophies/items etc.

Point 4 is kinda contradicting because you implicate pve players go to IC for the pve content. Quite the opposite of pvp players go to IC to do pvp content and run into the occasional pve player.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yes, any update where you can kill other players constitutes a PvP update.

Wait how can you go to IC to do PVP content when you just said its not a PVP DLC.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

On the EU server at launch all campaigns were pop locked with massive queues, they ended up adding more campaigns to cope with the number of "players" wanting (needing) to play their new DLC.

If these "players" were of an opposing faction you could, and still can, freely attack them and engage in player verses player game play.

Who goes to IC to PvE? What a stupid idea.


The big questions to me is how zos make changes to the IC. Should it be connected in any way to over world Cyrodiil in terms of influence? or should it be it's own entity offering something a little different to the zerg fest going on above?

GRxKnight

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Wait how can you go to IC to do PVP content when you just said its not a PVP DLC.

Just because pvp is enabled doesn't make it a pvp update...at the very least it's both because for the first couple weeks everyone and every guild were in the sewers doing the content in there, grinding stones and occasionally fighting other groups...now though you'll be lucky if you get 3 people in one area

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yes, any update where you can kill other players constitutes a PvP update.

I said at the time they released IC that the whole ganking people for their stones would keep most from bothering with it. Seems like I was right. If they had simply changed that one aspect I think you would see a lot more people there for you to fight.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

Soulac wrote: »

Thnx, I love the Smashing Pumpkins.

Jaronking

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I said at the time they released IC that the whole ganking people for their stones would keep most from bothering with it. Seems like I was right. If they had simply changed that one aspect I think you would see a lot more people there for you to fight.

If they kept their original idea of having IC locked and you being kicked from Imperial City when your faction lost emp after death that wouldn't have been a problem but PVEr like you complained about it and then you opened up the sewers to become a gank fest.So its your fault IC is full of gankers after PVPers told you making it open was a bad idea.

What really kept most people from buying Imperial city is that its not a PvP update and we wanted PVP something we were promised like captureable district and locked If Campaign so their a reason for your faction to push emp.When IC launched And for at least a month afterwards on Xbox Every Campaign was full it goes to show you people wanted something new and Zos ruined it.

So to the OP no its not a PVP update its a update that shows PVPer that's ZOS doesn't give 2 *** about us and instead turn our 1 DLC that we were promised and will every get into a PVE DLC.Am sorry don't put *** on my plate and tell me its a Tbone steak no its still *** on my plate.That is what Zos is tried to sell us and a lot of people saw that and that's why it did not do well.

AfkNinja

Yes, any update where you can kill other players constitutes a PvP update.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

I get the argument of no pvp objectives sure, but....

1. Can you kill enemy players? Yes
2. Is the zone in a pvp zone? Yes
3. Can you loot enemy bodies? Yes (stones)
4. Can you gank weak pve'ers who don't know how to pvp? Yes


If it only counts as pvp when there are objectives then everything I did in Age of Conan wasn't pvp and yet...it was?

They should add pvp objectives, but yes imo it's still a PVP expansion. It's a shame they didn't add objectives tho, on that I agree.

You dont get anything for killing players if they havent directly or indirectly killed NPCs. You get alliance points, a pvp reward.

If everyone would go into IC and just fight other players the only reward would be a bit of AP and XP

Alliance points are pvp rewards. Tel-var stones are as well, doesn't matter if you can get them from pve(in a pvp zone) you can also get them from pvp. Therefore it's a pvp update.

How can IC be considered pvp content if there isnt even a reward system for killing players? AP is a reward system for killing players. It's pvp.

Also, if ZOS would remove the ability to fight other players in IC the impact of that change would be very small in the current state. You would still have Molag Bal in the middle, sewer/district bosses, trove scamps, NPCs dropping trophies/items etc. If they removed the pvp it would be a PVE zone and you'd be correct.

Point 4 is kinda contradicting because you implicate pve players go to IC for the pve content. Quite the opposite of pvp players go to IC to do pvp content and run into the occasional pve player.

Doesn't matter what your intentions are when you go into a pvp zone (PVE vs PVP). If pvp is enabled it's pvp....PVE'ers also go do pvp to get things like Vigor, they aren't pvping cause they want too. If you can earn pvp rewards in the zone, and you can fight other humans in the zone then clearly it's a PVP zone.

Like my earlier point, I played Age of Conan on a free for all server. I could be attacked while doing pve at any time by other players. Are you claiming that game isn't pvp cause I was doing pve while being attacked by humans? Cause I disagree, it most definitely was PVP. All those people I killed can attest to that.

It's pvp, it's just a bad pvp update.

GRxKnight

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

AfkNinja wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

I get the argument of no pvp objectives sure, but....

1. Can you kill enemy players? Yes
2. Is the zone in a pvp zone? Yes
3. Can you loot enemy bodies? Yes (stones)
4. Can you gank weak pve'ers who don't know how to pvp? Yes


If it only counts as pvp when there are objectives then everything I did in Age of Conan wasn't pvp and yet...it was?

They should add pvp objectives, but yes imo it's still a PVP expansion. It's a shame they didn't add objectives tho, on that I agree.

You dont get anything for killing players if they havent directly or indirectly killed NPCs. You get alliance points, a pvp reward.

If everyone would go into IC and just fight other players the only reward would be a bit of AP and XP

Alliance points are pvp rewards. Tel-var stones are as well, doesn't matter if you can get them from pve(in a pvp zone) you can also get them from pvp. Therefore it's a pvp update.

How can IC be considered pvp content if there isnt even a reward system for killing players? AP is a reward system for killing players. It's pvp.

Also, if ZOS would remove the ability to fight other players in IC the impact of that change would be very small in the current state. You would still have Molag Bal in the middle, sewer/district bosses, trove scamps, NPCs dropping trophies/items etc. If they removed the pvp it would be a PVE zone and you'd be correct.

Point 4 is kinda contradicting because you implicate pve players go to IC for the pve content. Quite the opposite of pvp players go to IC to do pvp content and run into the occasional pve player.

Doesn't matter what your intentions are when you go into a pvp zone (PVE vs PVP). If pvp is enabled it's pvp....PVE'ers also go do pvp to get things like Vigor, they aren't pvping cause they want too. If you can earn pvp rewards in the zone, and you can fight other humans in the zone then clearly it's a PVP zone.

Like my earlier point, I played Age of Conan on a free for all server. I could be attacked while doing pve at any time by other players. Are you claiming that game isn't pvp cause I was doing pve while being attacked by humans? Cause I disagree, it most definitely was PVP. All those people I killed can attest to that.

It's pvp, it's just a bad pvp update.

How do you obtain these rewards in IC? Pvp or pve?

AfkNinja

Yes, any update where you can kill other players constitutes a PvP update.

GRxKnight wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

I get the argument of no pvp objectives sure, but....

1. Can you kill enemy players? Yes
2. Is the zone in a pvp zone? Yes
3. Can you loot enemy bodies? Yes (stones)
4. Can you gank weak pve'ers who don't know how to pvp? Yes


If it only counts as pvp when there are objectives then everything I did in Age of Conan wasn't pvp and yet...it was?

They should add pvp objectives, but yes imo it's still a PVP expansion. It's a shame they didn't add objectives tho, on that I agree.

You dont get anything for killing players if they havent directly or indirectly killed NPCs. You get alliance points, a pvp reward.

If everyone would go into IC and just fight other players the only reward would be a bit of AP and XP

Alliance points are pvp rewards. Tel-var stones are as well, doesn't matter if you can get them from pve(in a pvp zone) you can also get them from pvp. Therefore it's a pvp update.

How can IC be considered pvp content if there isnt even a reward system for killing players? AP is a reward system for killing players. It's pvp.

Also, if ZOS would remove the ability to fight other players in IC the impact of that change would be very small in the current state. You would still have Molag Bal in the middle, sewer/district bosses, trove scamps, NPCs dropping trophies/items etc. If they removed the pvp it would be a PVE zone and you'd be correct.

Point 4 is kinda contradicting because you implicate pve players go to IC for the pve content. Quite the opposite of pvp players go to IC to do pvp content and run into the occasional pve player.

Doesn't matter what your intentions are when you go into a pvp zone (PVE vs PVP). If pvp is enabled it's pvp....PVE'ers also go do pvp to get things like Vigor, they aren't pvping cause they want too. If you can earn pvp rewards in the zone, and you can fight other humans in the zone then clearly it's a PVP zone.

Like my earlier point, I played Age of Conan on a free for all server. I could be attacked while doing pve at any time by other players. Are you claiming that game isn't pvp cause I was doing pve while being attacked by humans? Cause I disagree, it most definitely was PVP. All those people I killed can attest to that.

It's pvp, it's just a bad pvp update.

How do you obtain these rewards in IC? Pvp or pve?

There are two types of rewards available in IC. AP rewards including monster sets obtained by killing players, which you can do in IC.

There are rewards with Tel Var stones which can be obtained through PVP in IC OR by PVE.

In both situations you can get pvp rewards by killing people in pvp in IC. It's pvp.


Edit: I understand the frustration here, I clearly agreed it's a BAD PVP UPDATE WITH NO OBJECTIVES. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it's not pvp though.

Morozov

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

Asmael wrote: »

Can you get most of the best gear through PvPing in there? (Kena, Endurance/Willpower/Agility)
Is PvPing anywhere near as rewarding as PvE in IC?
Does PvPing give you anything besides Tel var stones?
Do Tel var stones have any value at all?
Is the core event of IC a PvP one?
Are most dailies in IC PvP related?

More importantly...

Isn't it too late for such a thread?

1: only if you PVP the grind
2: only after you've killed the PVErs and taken all their collected stones
3: immense satisfaction in knowing you made a PVEr cry by taking all their hard earned stones
4: I have yet to sell them for many dollars
5: newp
6: neewwwwwp

7: yyyyyyyyyiip

Morozov

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Wait how can you go to IC to do PVP content when you just said its not a PVP DLC.

what got updated? I could have stayed in Cyrodiil and received the same AP killing folks as in IC.

its basically Cyrodiil renamed Imperial City.....sooooo what got "updated"? What about ESO PVP changed fundamentally when IC was released?

AfkNinja

Yes, any update where you can kill other players constitutes a PvP update.

Morozov wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Wait how can you go to IC to do PVP content when you just said its not a PVP DLC.

what got updated? I could have stayed in Cyrodiil and received the same AP killing folks as in IC.

its basically Cyrodiil renamed Imperial City.....sooooo what got "updated"? What about ESO PVP changed fundamentally when IC was released?

You just admitted it's pvp. It's a bad pvp update I agree. Should we be happy there are no objectives? NO!!!

Still, it's clearly pvp. You just admitted it.

Anywho, no point in beating a dead horse. I'm out.

Cathexis

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

AfkNinja wrote: »

Morozov wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Wait how can you go to IC to do PVP content when you just said its not a PVP DLC.

what got updated? I could have stayed in Cyrodiil and received the same AP killing folks as in IC.

its basically Cyrodiil renamed Imperial City.....sooooo what got "updated"? What about ESO PVP changed fundamentally when IC was released?

You just admitted it's pvp. It's a bad pvp update I agree. Should we be happy there are no objectives? NO!!!

Still, it's clearly pvp. You just admitted it.

Anywho, no point in beating a dead horse. I'm out.

Hah if a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it, does it still make a sound?

The argument whether or not it fundamentally is pvp is not the real argument here.

The argument is whether or not it serves that purpose well, which most will agree, it does not.

Morozov

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

AfkNinja wrote: »

Morozov wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Wait how can you go to IC to do PVP content when you just said its not a PVP DLC.

what got updated? I could have stayed in Cyrodiil and received the same AP killing folks as in IC.

its basically Cyrodiil renamed Imperial City.....sooooo what got "updated"? What about ESO PVP changed fundamentally when IC was released?

You just admitted it's pvp. It's a bad pvp update I agree. Should we be happy there are no objectives? NO!!!

Still, it's clearly pvp. You just admitted it.

Anywho, no point in beating a dead horse. I'm out.

OP's original question: Do you consider the Imperial City to be a PvP Update?

my answer is no. Why? because there is no "update". Updating something would imply a change of some sort in its fundamental workings or maybe adding something additional which changes the stakes. Im not debating if you can or can not PVP in there, because you can group up and run over PVEr's kill players. I will argue that IC is not a PVP "UPDATE" because nothing fundamentally changed about it.

I will not accept that Telvar stones which buy you set items (which ill argue are mostly PVE related) is an "update". Its AP reskinned. Developers could have nixed the TV stones all together and just used AP if it wasn't for the need to make a sales quota. Telling me a moldy doughnut is not a moldy doughnut, rather that it is a fresh one just by simply flipping it over and blowing it off is not updating something.

Molag Kena monster set? Awesome!.....no wait......I have to PVE to get the helmet and shoulders. And buying monster sets with AP wasn't available when IC originally launched.

New dungeons....nope PVE content.

new areas to kill folks? Possibly arguable that its an update, but nothing changed other than scenery. And with no good reason to remain in IC, what was the point? It holds no bearing on Cyrodiil without the capture portion of districts (agreed, bad implementation)

The way I see IC, is its like they made a second Cyrodiil, took away the objectives, reskinned it and turned it into a DLC. So no, nothing was "updated", it was just "rehashed".

Kinda like all the sequels coming out of Hollywood recently; adds nothing to the story overall, just a poopy remake of the first which wasn't nearly as good.

Sallington

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

How can it be considered a PvP UPDATE if literally nothing about PvP changed?

TG was more of a PvP update, since they changed the skill requirements, AP gains, rewards of the worthy bags, new sets, etc.


Calling a IC a PvP update is simply not correct.

CtrlAltDlt

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

Soulac wrote: »

/thread

Lucky28

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

AfkNinja wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

I get the argument of no pvp objectives sure, but....

1. Can you kill enemy players? Yes
2. Is the zone in a pvp zone? Yes
3. Can you loot enemy bodies? Yes (stones)
4. Can you gank weak pve'ers who don't know how to pvp? Yes


If it only counts as pvp when there are objectives then everything I did in Age of Conan wasn't pvp and yet...it was?

They should add pvp objectives, but yes imo it's still a PVP expansion. It's a shame they didn't add objectives tho, on that I agree.

You dont get anything for killing players if they havent directly or indirectly killed NPCs. You get alliance points, a pvp reward.

If everyone would go into IC and just fight other players the only reward would be a bit of AP and XP

Alliance points are pvp rewards. Tel-var stones are as well, doesn't matter if you can get them from pve(in a pvp zone) you can also get them from pvp. Therefore it's a pvp update.

How can IC be considered pvp content if there isnt even a reward system for killing players? AP is a reward system for killing players. It's pvp.

Also, if ZOS would remove the ability to fight other players in IC the impact of that change would be very small in the current state. You would still have Molag Bal in the middle, sewer/district bosses, trove scamps, NPCs dropping trophies/items etc. If they removed the pvp it would be a PVE zone and you'd be correct.

Point 4 is kinda contradicting because you implicate pve players go to IC for the pve content. Quite the opposite of pvp players go to IC to do pvp content and run into the occasional pve player.

Doesn't matter what your intentions are when you go into a pvp zone (PVE vs PVP). If pvp is enabled it's pvp....PVE'ers also go do pvp to get things like Vigor, they aren't pvping cause they want too. If you can earn pvp rewards in the zone, and you can fight other humans in the zone then clearly it's a PVP zone.

Like my earlier point, I played Age of Conan on a free for all server. I could be attacked while doing pve at any time by other players. Are you claiming that game isn't pvp cause I was doing pve while being attacked by humans? Cause I disagree, it most definitely was PVP. All those people I killed can attest to that.

It's pvp, it's just a bad pvp update.

How do you obtain these rewards in IC? Pvp or pve?

There are two types of rewards available in IC. AP rewards including monster sets obtained by killing players, which you can do in IC.

There are rewards with Tel Var stones which can be obtained through PVP in IC OR by PVE.

In both situations you can get pvp rewards by killing people in pvp in IC. It's pvp.


Edit: I understand the frustration here, I clearly agreed it's a BAD PVP UPDATE WITH NO OBJECTIVES. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it's not pvp though.

The devs actually described it as a PvE update with PvP in it. the original concept for IC would have been a real PvP update and a good one. but the devs decided against it, and what we have is basically a PvE grind zone. *shrugs*

GRxKnight

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

Morozov wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Morozov wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Wait how can you go to IC to do PVP content when you just said its not a PVP DLC.

what got updated? I could have stayed in Cyrodiil and received the same AP killing folks as in IC.

its basically Cyrodiil renamed Imperial City.....sooooo what got "updated"? What about ESO PVP changed fundamentally when IC was released?

You just admitted it's pvp. It's a bad pvp update I agree. Should we be happy there are no objectives? NO!!!

Still, it's clearly pvp. You just admitted it.

Anywho, no point in beating a dead horse. I'm out.

OP's original question: Do you consider the Imperial City to be a PvP Update?

my answer is no. Why? because there is no "update". Updating something would imply a change of some sort in its fundamental workings or maybe adding something additional which changes the stakes. Im not debating if you can or can not PVP in there, because you can group up and run over PVEr's kill players. I will argue that IC is not a PVP "UPDATE" because nothing fundamentally changed about it.

I will not accept that Telvar stones which buy you set items (which ill argue are mostly PVE related) is an "update". Its AP reskinned. Developers could have nixed the TV stones all together and just used AP if it wasn't for the need to make a sales quota. Telling me a moldy doughnut is not a moldy doughnut, rather that it is a fresh one just by simply flipping it over and blowing it off is not updating something.

Molag Kena monster set? Awesome!.....no wait......I have to PVE to get the helmet and shoulders. And buying monster sets with AP wasn't available when IC originally launched.

New dungeons....nope PVE content.

new areas to kill folks? Possibly arguable that its an update, but nothing changed other than scenery. And with no good reason to remain in IC, what was the point? It holds no bearing on Cyrodiil without the capture portion of districts (agreed, bad implementation)

The way I see IC, is its like they made a second Cyrodiil, took away the objectives, reskinned it and turned it into a DLC. So no, nothing was "updated", it was just "rehashed".

Kinda like all the sequels coming out of Hollywood recently; adds nothing to the story overall, just a poopy remake of the first which wasn't nearly as good.

Well said Moro...i think that's exactly what everyone saying it's a pvp update needs to hear...there were no ground breaking changes to pvp that were introduced...the only thing, THE ONLY THING, that they gave us was an area infested with NPCs and enabled the pvp system in it...that's it...that's all that was added...it's like if they activated pvp in hews bane and called it a pvp update. You can't call an update where 2 dungeons were added, an area with pve acquired currency was introduced, new gear and items purchasable with that currency only (unless you buy it off someone who spent their own stones) introduced, and let's not forgot that they also increased the vet cap to 16...the end result being that ic became the best place to grind those levels...you should only have one focus in a pvp zone and that is pvp...no one goes down there to pvp...there's no point...non whatsoever...so enough with the arguments that it was a pvp update...that's not what they gave us

AfkNinja wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

I get the argument of no pvp objectives sure, but....

1. Can you kill enemy players? Yes
2. Is the zone in a pvp zone? Yes
3. Can you loot enemy bodies? Yes (stones)
4. Can you gank weak pve'ers who don't know how to pvp? Yes


If it only counts as pvp when there are objectives then everything I did in Age of Conan wasn't pvp and yet...it was?

They should add pvp objectives, but yes imo it's still a PVP expansion. It's a shame they didn't add objectives tho, on that I agree.

You dont get anything for killing players if they havent directly or indirectly killed NPCs. You get alliance points, a pvp reward.

If everyone would go into IC and just fight other players the only reward would be a bit of AP and XP

Alliance points are pvp rewards. Tel-var stones are as well, doesn't matter if you can get them from pve(in a pvp zone) you can also get them from pvp. Therefore it's a pvp update.

How can IC be considered pvp content if there isnt even a reward system for killing players? AP is a reward system for killing players. It's pvp.

Also, if ZOS would remove the ability to fight other players in IC the impact of that change would be very small in the current state. You would still have Molag Bal in the middle, sewer/district bosses, trove scamps, NPCs dropping trophies/items etc. If they removed the pvp it would be a PVE zone and you'd be correct.

Point 4 is kinda contradicting because you implicate pve players go to IC for the pve content. Quite the opposite of pvp players go to IC to do pvp content and run into the occasional pve player.

Doesn't matter what your intentions are when you go into a pvp zone (PVE vs PVP). If pvp is enabled it's pvp....PVE'ers also go do pvp to get things like Vigor, they aren't pvping cause they want too. If you can earn pvp rewards in the zone, and you can fight other humans in the zone then clearly it's a PVP zone.

Like my earlier point, I played Age of Conan on a free for all server. I could be attacked while doing pve at any time by other players. Are you claiming that game isn't pvp cause I was doing pve while being attacked by humans? Cause I disagree, it most definitely was PVP. All those people I killed can attest to that.

It's pvp, it's just a bad pvp update.

How do you obtain these rewards in IC? Pvp or pve?

There are two types of rewards available in IC. AP rewards including monster sets obtained by killing players, which you can do in IC.

There are rewards with Tel Var stones which can be obtained through PVP in IC OR by PVE.

In both situations you can get pvp rewards by killing people in pvp in IC. It's pvp.


Edit: I understand the frustration here, I clearly agreed it's a BAD PVP UPDATE WITH NO OBJECTIVES. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it's not pvp though.

I was asking a rhetorical question there and yet it was even answered incorrectly...you got nothing for killing players in terms of monster sets as that was JUST added to the game in TG patch...not ic...so strike one

The only way you acquire stones in IC is rooted all the way back to pve...you can't go down to the sewers or the districts and only pve and expect to gain many, if any at all, stones...so strike two

The pvp rewards you speak of i could have gotten from pvping in actual cyrodill, so there wasn't anything new added to the rewards system if you killed in IC...unless you're referring to the new armor sets and trophy sets in which case you get a big fat LOL because as i said earlier, those stones/trophies (and in the case of trophies the ONLY WAY) are obtained 99% of the time though pve...so strike 3

AfkNinja

Yes, any update where you can kill other players constitutes a PvP update.

GRxKnight wrote: »

Morozov wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Morozov wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Wait how can you go to IC to do PVP content when you just said its not a PVP DLC.

what got updated? I could have stayed in Cyrodiil and received the same AP killing folks as in IC.

its basically Cyrodiil renamed Imperial City.....sooooo what got "updated"? What about ESO PVP changed fundamentally when IC was released?

You just admitted it's pvp. It's a bad pvp update I agree. Should we be happy there are no objectives? NO!!!

Still, it's clearly pvp. You just admitted it.

Anywho, no point in beating a dead horse. I'm out.

OP's original question: Do you consider the Imperial City to be a PvP Update?

my answer is no. Why? because there is no "update". Updating something would imply a change of some sort in its fundamental workings or maybe adding something additional which changes the stakes. Im not debating if you can or can not PVP in there, because you can group up and run over PVEr's kill players. I will argue that IC is not a PVP "UPDATE" because nothing fundamentally changed about it.

I will not accept that Telvar stones which buy you set items (which ill argue are mostly PVE related) is an "update". Its AP reskinned. Developers could have nixed the TV stones all together and just used AP if it wasn't for the need to make a sales quota. Telling me a moldy doughnut is not a moldy doughnut, rather that it is a fresh one just by simply flipping it over and blowing it off is not updating something.

Molag Kena monster set? Awesome!.....no wait......I have to PVE to get the helmet and shoulders. And buying monster sets with AP wasn't available when IC originally launched.

New dungeons....nope PVE content.

new areas to kill folks? Possibly arguable that its an update, but nothing changed other than scenery. And with no good reason to remain in IC, what was the point? It holds no bearing on Cyrodiil without the capture portion of districts (agreed, bad implementation)

The way I see IC, is its like they made a second Cyrodiil, took away the objectives, reskinned it and turned it into a DLC. So no, nothing was "updated", it was just "rehashed".

Kinda like all the sequels coming out of Hollywood recently; adds nothing to the story overall, just a poopy remake of the first which wasn't nearly as good.

Well said Moro...i think that's exactly what everyone saying it's a pvp update needs to hear...there were no ground breaking changes to pvp that were introduced...the only thing, THE ONLY THING, that they gave us was an area infested with NPCs and enabled the pvp system in it...that's it...that's all that was added...it's like if they activated pvp in hews bane and called it a pvp update. You can't call an update where 2 dungeons were added, an area with pve acquired currency was introduced, new gear and items purchasable with that currency only (unless you buy it off someone who spent their own stones) introduced, and let's not forgot that they also increased the vet cap to 16...the end result being that ic became the best place to grind those levels...you should only have one focus in a pvp zone and that is pvp...no one goes down there to pvp...there's no point...non whatsoever...so enough with the arguments that it was a pvp update...that's not what they gave us

AfkNinja wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

I get the argument of no pvp objectives sure, but....

1. Can you kill enemy players? Yes
2. Is the zone in a pvp zone? Yes
3. Can you loot enemy bodies? Yes (stones)
4. Can you gank weak pve'ers who don't know how to pvp? Yes


If it only counts as pvp when there are objectives then everything I did in Age of Conan wasn't pvp and yet...it was?

They should add pvp objectives, but yes imo it's still a PVP expansion. It's a shame they didn't add objectives tho, on that I agree.

You dont get anything for killing players if they havent directly or indirectly killed NPCs. You get alliance points, a pvp reward.

If everyone would go into IC and just fight other players the only reward would be a bit of AP and XP

Alliance points are pvp rewards. Tel-var stones are as well, doesn't matter if you can get them from pve(in a pvp zone) you can also get them from pvp. Therefore it's a pvp update.

How can IC be considered pvp content if there isnt even a reward system for killing players? AP is a reward system for killing players. It's pvp.

Also, if ZOS would remove the ability to fight other players in IC the impact of that change would be very small in the current state. You would still have Molag Bal in the middle, sewer/district bosses, trove scamps, NPCs dropping trophies/items etc. If they removed the pvp it would be a PVE zone and you'd be correct.

Point 4 is kinda contradicting because you implicate pve players go to IC for the pve content. Quite the opposite of pvp players go to IC to do pvp content and run into the occasional pve player.

Doesn't matter what your intentions are when you go into a pvp zone (PVE vs PVP). If pvp is enabled it's pvp....PVE'ers also go do pvp to get things like Vigor, they aren't pvping cause they want too. If you can earn pvp rewards in the zone, and you can fight other humans in the zone then clearly it's a PVP zone.

Like my earlier point, I played Age of Conan on a free for all server. I could be attacked while doing pve at any time by other players. Are you claiming that game isn't pvp cause I was doing pve while being attacked by humans? Cause I disagree, it most definitely was PVP. All those people I killed can attest to that.

It's pvp, it's just a bad pvp update.

How do you obtain these rewards in IC? Pvp or pve?

There are two types of rewards available in IC. AP rewards including monster sets obtained by killing players, which you can do in IC.

There are rewards with Tel Var stones which can be obtained through PVP in IC OR by PVE.

In both situations you can get pvp rewards by killing people in pvp in IC. It's pvp.


Edit: I understand the frustration here, I clearly agreed it's a BAD PVP UPDATE WITH NO OBJECTIVES. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it's not pvp though.

I was asking a rhetorical question there and yet it was even answered incorrectly...you got nothing for killing players in terms of monster sets as that was JUST added to the game in TG patch...not ic...so strike one (OMG you are so right, it was retroactively added to IC my bad. It's still there, people who buy IC now get that option to pvp for monster sets. Are you arguing this is a bad thing?)

The only way you acquire stones in IC is rooted all the way back to pve...you can't go down to the sewers or the districts and only pve and expect to gain many, if any at all, stones...so strike two

This statement is really confusing. You're arguing I have to pvp for decent amounts of stones??? Doesn't that support my argument? All those big pvp fights I get into in IC aren't really happening?

The pvp rewards you speak of i could have gotten from pvping in actual cyrodill (True and you can get them in IC, what's the issue?), so there wasn't anything new added to the rewards system if you killed in IC...unless you're referring to the new armor sets and trophy sets in which case you get a big fat LOL because as i said earlier, those stones/trophies (and in the case of trophies the ONLY WAY) are obtained 99% of the time though pve (or PVP as it's optional lol)...so strike 3 (Who care's how they are acquired? So now if I pvp to get those rewards in IC it doesn't count? LOL It's PVP or PVE they gave you a choice.)

1. The original post was and I quote "Do you consider the Imperial City to be a PvP Update?" I can't be wrong cause he's asking for my opinion. Opinions are not facts, there is no "right" or "wrong".

2. I already agreed it was a bad pvp update. However just cause you don't like what they added doesn't mean it's not pvp. It's a whole zone that's new. Nothing new was added? What? I'm sure ZOS would argue all that work they put into it was definitely something.

3. I'm confused why you're so upset. It's a discussion. He asked my opinion, and I gave it.

4. You're just arguing semantics now. It all comes down to one question for me, can I pvp in that zone and get rewards for it? Yes. Therefore in my OPINION it is a PVP update, just a rather poor one.

5. No one would argue other pvp games aren't pvp just cause they have pve elements in them...

failkiwib16_ESO

Yes, any update where you can kill other players constitutes a PvP update.

IC DLC is not a regular pvp update, nor a pve friendly update. It's gankers economy paradise.

It's the best xp and money farming place since IC DLC launch, we haven't had a single area that have beaten it yet, so there will always be pve'ers struggling to lvl up their chars, or grind tel var stones. You kill another player there, you gain a large portion of their tel var stones.

IC Sewers is designed like this:

• You have a tunnel that leads from your base toward the center, with a few circles of smaller tunnel routes on the sides.
• There are ladders you can take from your base to the City, and drop down fast from the city to ladders in locations close to your enemy bases.
• There is an item "Sigel of Imperial Retreat" that can only be purchased at a vendor for 10k AP only, not by gold or tel var stones, it also drops as loot from chests although it is extremely rare. Pve players do most often not carry sigels.
• If you use the sigil, you get from whereever you are back to your base, without loosing any tel var stones.

This is how it goes in sewers:

• The mobs are insanely strong and have more hp than any other place, so the regular pvp build and gear does not work very well for mob farming. This prohibits a lot of grinders from taking precautions toward the pvp element there.
• Pve'ers rush out of base to grind, ganker drops down from ladders near grindspots or base area, and gank returning players or gank the currently farming players. Gain 80% of their stones, can use a sigil bought for AP to retreat to base, bank stones, return fast to enemy grindspot via ladders, continue and repeat.

---

Basically what I am trying to tell you is, if you are a stalky little ganker then by all means purchase the DLC, you're gonna have the best time of your life there, I mean ....whole groups of miserable v1-v6 players that struggle at a boss, that you can nuke down from stealth with a single AoE because they are already at execute phase hp..

If you like to roleplay The Glorious General Siegelover, then do not purchase it. There is no siegefights, there is no glory, no mead, there are unavoidable annoying NPC enemies all over the place... roaming bosses with millions of hp. Zergs of low level newbies on a daily base roaming the sewers for boss slayer achievements and other pve flowerpicker lvl stuff ...such as fishing achievements, and the occasional crazy loners such as players like me who just likes the place..

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yes, any update where you can kill other players constitutes a PvP update.

Jaronking wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I said at the time they released IC that the whole ganking people for their stones would keep most from bothering with it. Seems like I was right. If they had simply changed that one aspect I think you would see a lot more people there for you to fight.

If they kept their original idea of having IC locked and you being kicked from Imperial City when your faction lost emp after death that wouldn't have been a problem but PVEr like you complained about it and then you opened up the sewers to become a gank fest.So its your fault IC is full of gankers after PVPers told you making it open was a bad idea.

What really kept most people from buying Imperial city is that its not a PvP update and we wanted PVP something we were promised like captureable district and locked If Campaign so their a reason for your faction to push emp.When IC launched And for at least a month afterwards on Xbox Every Campaign was full it goes to show you people wanted something new and Zos ruined it.

So to the OP no its not a PVP update its a update that shows PVPer that's ZOS doesn't give 2 *** about us and instead turn our 1 DLC that we were promised and will every get into a PVE DLC.Am sorry don't put *** on my plate and tell me its a Tbone steak no its still *** on my plate.That is what Zos is tried to sell us and a lot of people saw that and that's why it did not do well.

No I didnt complain about that at all. In fact I really had no interest in it at all after I learned they allowed player looting there.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yes, any update where you can kill other players constitutes a PvP update.

Lucky28 wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

I get the argument of no pvp objectives sure, but....

1. Can you kill enemy players? Yes
2. Is the zone in a pvp zone? Yes
3. Can you loot enemy bodies? Yes (stones)
4. Can you gank weak pve'ers who don't know how to pvp? Yes


If it only counts as pvp when there are objectives then everything I did in Age of Conan wasn't pvp and yet...it was?

They should add pvp objectives, but yes imo it's still a PVP expansion. It's a shame they didn't add objectives tho, on that I agree.

You dont get anything for killing players if they havent directly or indirectly killed NPCs. You get alliance points, a pvp reward.

If everyone would go into IC and just fight other players the only reward would be a bit of AP and XP

Alliance points are pvp rewards. Tel-var stones are as well, doesn't matter if you can get them from pve(in a pvp zone) you can also get them from pvp. Therefore it's a pvp update.

How can IC be considered pvp content if there isnt even a reward system for killing players? AP is a reward system for killing players. It's pvp.

Also, if ZOS would remove the ability to fight other players in IC the impact of that change would be very small in the current state. You would still have Molag Bal in the middle, sewer/district bosses, trove scamps, NPCs dropping trophies/items etc. If they removed the pvp it would be a PVE zone and you'd be correct.

Point 4 is kinda contradicting because you implicate pve players go to IC for the pve content. Quite the opposite of pvp players go to IC to do pvp content and run into the occasional pve player.

Doesn't matter what your intentions are when you go into a pvp zone (PVE vs PVP). If pvp is enabled it's pvp....PVE'ers also go do pvp to get things like Vigor, they aren't pvping cause they want too. If you can earn pvp rewards in the zone, and you can fight other humans in the zone then clearly it's a PVP zone.

Like my earlier point, I played Age of Conan on a free for all server. I could be attacked while doing pve at any time by other players. Are you claiming that game isn't pvp cause I was doing pve while being attacked by humans? Cause I disagree, it most definitely was PVP. All those people I killed can attest to that.

It's pvp, it's just a bad pvp update.

How do you obtain these rewards in IC? Pvp or pve?

There are two types of rewards available in IC. AP rewards including monster sets obtained by killing players, which you can do in IC.

There are rewards with Tel Var stones which can be obtained through PVP in IC OR by PVE.

In both situations you can get pvp rewards by killing people in pvp in IC. It's pvp.


Edit: I understand the frustration here, I clearly agreed it's a BAD PVP UPDATE WITH NO OBJECTIVES. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it's not pvp though.

The devs actually described it as a PvE update with PvP in it. the original concept for IC would have been a real PvP update and a good one. but the devs decided against it, and what we have is basically a PvE grind zone. *shrugs*

Where is this quote? The only quote I ever read rich lambert told the PVE community to sit and spin because the PVP community was going to get "some love first". I was told if I didnt like IC or the design I could take a hike basically. So thats what I did. I left stopped paying them until orsinium came out and they added content I actually would purchase. With TG I even renewed my plus subscription.

Sallington

No, an update with no PvP objectives and only PvE objectives can't be considered a PvP Update.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

I get the argument of no pvp objectives sure, but....

1. Can you kill enemy players? Yes
2. Is the zone in a pvp zone? Yes
3. Can you loot enemy bodies? Yes (stones)
4. Can you gank weak pve'ers who don't know how to pvp? Yes


If it only counts as pvp when there are objectives then everything I did in Age of Conan wasn't pvp and yet...it was?

They should add pvp objectives, but yes imo it's still a PVP expansion. It's a shame they didn't add objectives tho, on that I agree.

You dont get anything for killing players if they havent directly or indirectly killed NPCs. You get alliance points, a pvp reward.

If everyone would go into IC and just fight other players the only reward would be a bit of AP and XP

Alliance points are pvp rewards. Tel-var stones are as well, doesn't matter if you can get them from pve(in a pvp zone) you can also get them from pvp. Therefore it's a pvp update.

How can IC be considered pvp content if there isnt even a reward system for killing players? AP is a reward system for killing players. It's pvp.

Also, if ZOS would remove the ability to fight other players in IC the impact of that change would be very small in the current state. You would still have Molag Bal in the middle, sewer/district bosses, trove scamps, NPCs dropping trophies/items etc. If they removed the pvp it would be a PVE zone and you'd be correct.

Point 4 is kinda contradicting because you implicate pve players go to IC for the pve content. Quite the opposite of pvp players go to IC to do pvp content and run into the occasional pve player.

Doesn't matter what your intentions are when you go into a pvp zone (PVE vs PVP). If pvp is enabled it's pvp....PVE'ers also go do pvp to get things like Vigor, they aren't pvping cause they want too. If you can earn pvp rewards in the zone, and you can fight other humans in the zone then clearly it's a PVP zone.

Like my earlier point, I played Age of Conan on a free for all server. I could be attacked while doing pve at any time by other players. Are you claiming that game isn't pvp cause I was doing pve while being attacked by humans? Cause I disagree, it most definitely was PVP. All those people I killed can attest to that.

It's pvp, it's just a bad pvp update.

How do you obtain these rewards in IC? Pvp or pve?

There are two types of rewards available in IC. AP rewards including monster sets obtained by killing players, which you can do in IC.

There are rewards with Tel Var stones which can be obtained through PVP in IC OR by PVE.

In both situations you can get pvp rewards by killing people in pvp in IC. It's pvp.


Edit: I understand the frustration here, I clearly agreed it's a BAD PVP UPDATE WITH NO OBJECTIVES. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it's not pvp though.

The devs actually described it as a PvE update with PvP in it. the original concept for IC would have been a real PvP update and a good one. but the devs decided against it, and what we have is basically a PvE grind zone. *shrugs*

Where is this quote? The only quote I ever read rich lambert told the PVE community to sit and spin because the PVP community was going to get "some love first". I was told if I didnt like IC or the design I could take a hike basically. So thats what I did. I left stopped paying them until orsinium came out and they added content I actually would purchase. With TG I even renewed my plus subscription.

We get that you like PvE way more than PvP. We get it.


We get it.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yes, any update where you can kill other players constitutes a PvP update.

Sallington wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

I get the argument of no pvp objectives sure, but....

1. Can you kill enemy players? Yes
2. Is the zone in a pvp zone? Yes
3. Can you loot enemy bodies? Yes (stones)
4. Can you gank weak pve'ers who don't know how to pvp? Yes


If it only counts as pvp when there are objectives then everything I did in Age of Conan wasn't pvp and yet...it was?

They should add pvp objectives, but yes imo it's still a PVP expansion. It's a shame they didn't add objectives tho, on that I agree.

You dont get anything for killing players if they havent directly or indirectly killed NPCs. You get alliance points, a pvp reward.

If everyone would go into IC and just fight other players the only reward would be a bit of AP and XP

Alliance points are pvp rewards. Tel-var stones are as well, doesn't matter if you can get them from pve(in a pvp zone) you can also get them from pvp. Therefore it's a pvp update.

How can IC be considered pvp content if there isnt even a reward system for killing players? AP is a reward system for killing players. It's pvp.

Also, if ZOS would remove the ability to fight other players in IC the impact of that change would be very small in the current state. You would still have Molag Bal in the middle, sewer/district bosses, trove scamps, NPCs dropping trophies/items etc. If they removed the pvp it would be a PVE zone and you'd be correct.

Point 4 is kinda contradicting because you implicate pve players go to IC for the pve content. Quite the opposite of pvp players go to IC to do pvp content and run into the occasional pve player.

Doesn't matter what your intentions are when you go into a pvp zone (PVE vs PVP). If pvp is enabled it's pvp....PVE'ers also go do pvp to get things like Vigor, they aren't pvping cause they want too. If you can earn pvp rewards in the zone, and you can fight other humans in the zone then clearly it's a PVP zone.

Like my earlier point, I played Age of Conan on a free for all server. I could be attacked while doing pve at any time by other players. Are you claiming that game isn't pvp cause I was doing pve while being attacked by humans? Cause I disagree, it most definitely was PVP. All those people I killed can attest to that.

It's pvp, it's just a bad pvp update.

How do you obtain these rewards in IC? Pvp or pve?

There are two types of rewards available in IC. AP rewards including monster sets obtained by killing players, which you can do in IC.

There are rewards with Tel Var stones which can be obtained through PVP in IC OR by PVE.

In both situations you can get pvp rewards by killing people in pvp in IC. It's pvp.


Edit: I understand the frustration here, I clearly agreed it's a BAD PVP UPDATE WITH NO OBJECTIVES. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it's not pvp though.

The devs actually described it as a PvE update with PvP in it. the original concept for IC would have been a real PvP update and a good one. but the devs decided against it, and what we have is basically a PvE grind zone. *shrugs*

Where is this quote? The only quote I ever read rich lambert told the PVE community to sit and spin because the PVP community was going to get "some love first". I was told if I didnt like IC or the design I could take a hike basically. So thats what I did. I left stopped paying them until orsinium came out and they added content I actually would purchase. With TG I even renewed my plus subscription.

We get that you like PvE way more than PvP. We get it.


We get it.

No I dont think you do. If it had been a PVE update I most certainly would have purchased it. Honestly had it just been where I didnt get looted I would have been fine. I dont mind dying. I understand sometimes you get your butt handed to you by a group I dont cry nerf zergs. Im admittedly not super great at PVP but I would have tried it had I been able to keep the TV stones when I died. Thats all.