The inability to dodge Radiant Destruction is too extreme

AddictionX

Hymzir wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

[The] video by @Alcast showcases a lot of examples of what is wrong with this ability in combat larger than 1v1.

No, it does not. What it does is showcase what happens in an environment with no soft caps and people being able to stack outrageous amounts of spell damage and have ridiculous Magicka pools. It's an artillery build designed to work in group situations with top gear and CP at cap all aimed at doing burst. The game has plenty of equally ridiculous builds for other classes too. Most Templars do not hit that hard because they are either Healers, build with sustain, or have made concessions with DPS to achieve more utilty. Also it's a best hits real made to serve a point, so of course it highlights situations where RD works.

Burning_Talons wrote: »

The 2nd sentence of this has made this whole reply bias and void

By that logic I am the best person to rate what is OP and what not with Nightblades, since I never played that class past level three, and have no practical experience with any of the limitations of the class. I am only aware of the stuff that gets me killed, which is obviously OP!

If any bias is expressed here, it is done by you, in that you summarily decide my input is worthless, based on the fact that I play a Templar, instead of actually arguing the points I make. Do keep in mind that non Templar players only ever really notice the times RD works. We, who actually use it in combat, are all well familiar with the situations where it doesn't work or misfires or ends up doing 300 point ticks against a tank who is blocking. And yes, there are some Tempalrs who think it's OP but most do not. It's the same with all classes and skills. People do have differing opinions. I for example think that the buff to Dark Flare damage in TG was a bad move, that the skill hits way too hard now and only encourages unconstructive game play. (I would've kept the damage as it was, but introduced more utility to the skill - but ZOS wants more magicka burst, so that's the way it goes...) But others seem to like it. But as far as RD goes, I do not think it is OP. It is strong, but there are ways to counter it, and it has bunch of down sides to make up for its strong points.

And yes, it is the natural enemy of all stambuilds and especially the bane of Nightblades. But then again, their mobility and ability to cloak are the natural banes of Templars. There are counters to every move. Is it perfectly balance - 'prolly not, but ultimately that is really difficult to judge clearly, since the game has so many moving parts and the meta keeps going back and forth. Also note that Thieves Guild introduced lots of buffs to magicka builds in general, so there is that as well to keep in mind. Magicka builds perform better at the moment than stamina ones, so obviously RD is doing better as well.

So to summarize: The problem is not the skill itself, but the various ways you can stack spell damage, and the synergy you can get for magicka burst with gear and potions and CP. They did say that the next DLC will be stamina focused, so who knows how the balance will swing by then.

But arguing about nerfs to single skills will not fix anything. Every build has skills they are weaker against than others, and every build has skills they are stronger against than others. So yes, some builds have it harder with RD than others, but that is the nature of the beast.

Personally I am much more bothered by the proliferation of Vicious Death related deaths. I even got a kill recap with nothing but Vicious Death hits. And it's not like I was running with a zerg or anything when that happened. Just half a dozen or so players running up the stairs from Fort Aleswell to the Aleswell Farm when "BAM!", some random burst took out the people in front of me, and I'm dead from full health, purely due to Vicious Death. Now that crap is broken.

Yep and ZOS says its a visual bug. ZOS also says this is working as intended.... Does ZOS know whats best? Current state of pvp is surely the best.

Refuse2GrowUp

Hymzir wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

[The] video by @Alcast showcases a lot of examples of what is wrong with this ability in combat larger than 1v1.

No, it does not. What it does is showcase what happens in an environment with no soft caps and people being able to stack outrageous amounts of spell damage and have ridiculous Magicka pools. It's an artillery build designed to work in group situations with top gear and CP at cap all aimed at doing burst. The game has plenty of equally ridiculous builds for other classes too. Most Templars do not hit that hard because they are either Healers, build with sustain, or have made concessions with DPS to achieve more utilty. Also it's a best hits real made to serve a point, so of course it highlights situations where RD works.

Burning_Talons wrote: »

The 2nd sentence of this has made this whole reply bias and void

By that logic I am the best person to rate what is OP and what not with Nightblades, since I never played that class past level three, and have no practical experience with any of the limitations of the class. I am only aware of the stuff that gets me killed, which is obviously OP!

If any bias is expressed here, it is done by you, in that you summarily decide my input is worthless, based on the fact that I play a Templar, instead of actually arguing the points I make. Do keep in mind that non Templar players only ever really notice the times RD works. We, who actually use it in combat, are all well familiar with the situations where it doesn't work or misfires or ends up doing 300 point ticks against a tank who is blocking. And yes, there are some Tempalrs who think it's OP but most do not. It's the same with all classes and skills. People do have differing opinions. I for example think that the buff to Dark Flare damage in TG was a bad move, that the skill hits way too hard now and only encourages unconstructive game play. (I would've kept the damage as it was, but introduced more utility to the skill - but ZOS wants more magicka burst, so that's the way it goes...) But others seem to like it. But as far as RD goes, I do not think it is OP. It is strong, but there are ways to counter it, and it has bunch of down sides to make up for its strong points.

And yes, it is the natural enemy of all stambuilds and especially the bane of Nightblades. But then again, their mobility and ability to cloak are the natural banes of Templars. There are counters to every move. Is it perfectly balance - 'prolly not, but ultimately that is really difficult to judge clearly, since the game has so many moving parts and the meta keeps going back and forth. Also note that Thieves Guild introduced lots of buffs to magicka builds in general, so there is that as well to keep in mind. Magicka builds perform better at the moment than stamina ones, so obviously RD is doing better as well.

So to summarize: The problem is not the skill itself, but the various ways you can stack spell damage, and the synergy you can get for magicka burst with gear and potions and CP. They did say that the next DLC will be stamina focused, so who knows how the balance will swing by then.

But arguing about nerfs to single skills will not fix anything. Every build has skills they are weaker against than others, and every build has skills they are stronger against than others. So yes, some builds have it harder with RD than others, but that is the nature of the beast.

Personally I am much more bothered by the proliferation of Vicious Death related deaths. I even got a kill recap with nothing but Vicious Death hits. And it's not like I was running with a zerg or anything when that happened. Just half a dozen or so players running up the stairs from Fort Aleswell to the Aleswell Farm when "BAM!", some random burst took out the people in front of me, and I'm dead from full health, purely due to Vicious Death. Now that crap is broken.

Damn you are long winded. You may have some valid points, but I'm just not in the mood to read a novel. Got a Readers Digest version?

AddictionX

He will be back momentarily catching his breath from the looks of things. It isnt easy being a templar defending Radiant Destruction for obvious reasons.

Grampa_Smurf

I watch that

Alcast wrote: »

Ok here you go boys and girls. People that still think Radiant Destruction is balanced should watch this video.
I do know it is not an issue in 1v1. But it becomes one in open world pvp.

And NO you can NOT INTERRUPT the *** 47m beam. Why? Because you are long dead before you reach the beamer lolololol

https://youtu.be/8Q8v-oTHPio

But anyone that builds any magicka player with 40k+ magicka and 4.4k spell power is going to do a crap load of damage, no matter if you are Templar-NB-DK-Sorc. With that much power behind the spell a lot of players are going to be killed.

Destruent

Grampa_Smurf wrote: »

I watch that

Alcast wrote: »

Ok here you go boys and girls. People that still think Radiant Destruction is balanced should watch this video.
I do know it is not an issue in 1v1. But it becomes one in open world pvp.

And NO you can NOT INTERRUPT the *** 47m beam. Why? Because you are long dead before you reach the beamer lolololol

https://youtu.be/8Q8v-oTHPio

But anyone that builds any magicka player with 40k+ magicka and 4.4k spell power is going to do a crap load of damage, no matter if you are Templar-NB-DK-Sorc. With that much power behind the spell a lot of players are going to be killed.

exactly this...you guys are complaining about a templar-build, which destroys people with ~3 skills (darkflare-->javelin-->radiant) and don't complain about a similar NB-build which can destroy entire groups. Seems like it's ok to blow up groups but not to kill single enemys with the same effort....

Krist

When you look at the video, the guy was successfully running through his power tray, doing more than just "beaming" people. No one was attacking him which gave him the ability to do more damage and take his time. I PvP solo with a NB and even now templars are not my worst nightmares. DKs and other NBs usually are more difficult for me due to my play style.

Uber Templars...geesh...you HAVE to be just wanting to complain about something.

Sugaroverdose

What do we have in result:
Group killed by proxy-tether night blades - awesome.
Animation cancelling of massive damage+cc+uninteruptable channeling ability - cool skillful player.
Ridiculous shield stacking - no-one cares.
Get executed by templar - nerf it, my awesome build don't need counter for that (purge? haha, i'm way too awesome and skillful roll dodger for that)

Hymzir

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Damn you are long winded. You may have some valid points, but I'm just not in the mood to read a novel. Got a Readers Digest version?

No. Serious debate requires serious posting. Snappy and pithy remarks, with vague generalization of facts and offering none of your own argumentation in turn, is meaningless and will not progress the issue. Plus in case ZOS actually bothers to keep tabs on what we are frothing and foaming about on the forums, I want to make it as crystal clear as I can as to where I am coming from and why, so as to do my best to curtail any more hare-brained "balance" moves by ZOS. I do not expect most people to read my posts fully, but I do hope that the people from ZOS do. (in case they pay any attention to the issue at all).

For what's it's worth, some of the posts by the proponents for nerfing RD have made couple of good points about defending against RD as a stamina build that, that have made me re-evaluated some of my stances about RD and how to defend against it. So well argumented posts can and do make a difference.

As this debate has raged across several threads in recent days, I've come to the conclusion that RD and channels in general are a counters against roll dodging, just as CC is the natural counter for magicka builds in general, so it's a matter of give and take when looked though the larger frame .So while magicka builds do have it easier against RD than stamina builds, many of the same defenses used by magicka builds work just as well with stamina.

In fact I, myself, quite often roll dodge my way out of RD. Since I am fairly familiar with it, I can easily estimate it's reach, and if I am hit with RD, say from a keep wall, I often just roll dodge directly away from the caster and thus get out of the range for the skill. That works whether you're stamina or magicka based, and is arguably easier to do as a stamina build. Also roll dodging behind cover is a good way to use that big stamina pool.

The key thing to keep in mind is that if you are at execute range, you will die from any execute anyway, and if you are hit by RD while not in execute, then do something about it! Don't just stand there and eat it. Use that large reservoir of stamina and block your way though it. And if you are outnumbered then... well you are outnumbered and the fight is already stacked against you no matter who you are facing. Even so, some veteran players whose names I've come to recognize can be a real pita to RD down. They know how to dance and weave their way through rocks and trees and the various ruined bits of architecture that litter Cyrodiil - often against several foes at teh same time. Breaking LoS on RD is not impossible and comes naturally after practicing it for a while.

I also forgot to mention, that I too have my fair share of RD killing sprees like the ones Alcast posted in the video - situations where I am running around a large general melee and busting people down left and right with RD. That's when the flow of battle favors my side and things go just right. But I also have just as many, if not even more, times where no-one I RD dies. They always dodge behind cover, get healed by an ally, or just block their way though it, or pop up shields. So I for one can attest that RD is not the mythical surefire single skill answer to burst targets down from full health for easy AP. Or if it is, there is something seriously wrong with my copy of the game and I want to be reimbursed for all that sweet AP I've missed.

But I know that it isn't so,, since, like I mentioned, I've had my fair share of killing sprees. When things go just right and you execute 12 people in row it feels amazing and you and you get all amped up about how awesome you are. But then again, all those moments are counterbalanced by those times, when the healers from the opposing side just keep propping people up no matter how many times you get them to execute range. Hmm... that reminds me of another nerf Templars thing that was trending a few months ago... And all that got us was a fix that didn't even solve the actual issue and only managed to make things harder for people who were not even affected by the actual problem. So be wary about asking for nerfs, ZOS has a bad track record with them (Like the increased cost of consecutive roll dodges - I was a fiercely against that move. It hurt those who did not specialize in roll dodging lot more than it did those who kept rolling all day long.)

Also note that if you go through the various Youtube videos for ESO, you can find tons of similar killing sprees with various other skills. Nobody ever posts their fail videos, only the ones where things flow down perfectly. So they are not really an accurate representation of the reality of things.

I still maintain that most of the RD furor is due to it's flashy nature, and due to the fact that it's not just an instant bam your dead, but a prolonged ordeal which in turns makes it feel much more dangerous than it really is. That and the fact that people got used to just dodge rolling their way out of it and thus generally ignoring Templars all together. Now that they actually have to pay attention to us Templars once more, it feels like we are lot more powerful than we actually are

But enough already, I've said my piece and presented my arguments. You are free to either agree with them or disagree. All I really care about is that ZOS wont make yet another poorly thought out kneejerk reaction and nerf the crap out of it. So far things look good, as they even noted in the last live show, that they have ran the numbers and that RD is withing the parameters they expect it to be. And it is comparable in performance with other hard hitting skills. So take that for what it's worth and perhaps re-evalute your own stance if you feel that RD is hitting you disproportionally hard. Perhaps it is a signal that there is a weakness in your build and that maybe you should work to find a counter for it. All I can say is that it is the least of my worries in Cyrodiil, and I fully believe that it is so because I am well familiar with the skill and thus know it's weaknesses and limitations and thus know how to best counter it. But yeah... I'm off to bed.

DaveMoeDee

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

Why does every execute have to be the same?

Artjuh90

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

I kinda got the feeling, that only glass cannons died from jesus beams in these kind of threads.

actually jesus beam is stronger vs the tankier stamina users then the glass cannons....

Inarre

NBrookus wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Mages wrath explosion can't be dodged but mages wrath itself can be. I don't think rd should be dodgeable cos it's a channel, but I do think it does a bit too much damage from over 50% hp. I like this suggestion best:

notimetocare wrote: »

I dont think its the inability to dodge, the core issue with RD is that is scales while its active and not when cast.

Making the skill scale from when it's cast seems like a reasonable nerf that wouldn't leave the skill useless. It would only execute if cast when target was already in execute range.

Both my sorc and templar agree with this tweak. It won't affect players genuinely using it as an execute. Templars spamming this skill on full health opponents will be better off heavy attacking with resto or lightning staff.

Also agree with this.... As a templar i dont want to see templar nerfs. But even i groan when i see someone spamming jesus beam on anything above 50% hp.

This might make them stop the madness.

Sugaroverdose

Inarre wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Mages wrath explosion can't be dodged but mages wrath itself can be. I don't think rd should be dodgeable cos it's a channel, but I do think it does a bit too much damage from over 50% hp. I like this suggestion best:

notimetocare wrote: »

I dont think its the inability to dodge, the core issue with RD is that is scales while its active and not when cast.

Making the skill scale from when it's cast seems like a reasonable nerf that wouldn't leave the skill useless. It would only execute if cast when target was already in execute range.

Both my sorc and templar agree with this tweak. It won't affect players genuinely using it as an execute. Templars spamming this skill on full health opponents will be better off heavy attacking with resto or lightning staff.

Also agree with this.... As a templar i dont want to see templar nerfs. But even i groan when i see someone spamming jesus beam on anything above 50% hp.

This might make them stop the madness.

Sometimes i call for cast when target have 20% hp and BAM he 100% once more, am i noob? Or everyone forgets that RD doesn't really start cast instantly and cannot be animation canceled?

Before nerfing templars more - make them viable in 1v1 vs people who know what cheap costed not immunable at all roots does do to magplars.

Vangy

NovaShadow wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

What is this dodge exploit I keep hearing about? Yes I use shuffle on my DK and I constantly get pms that accuse me of exploiting... What is shuffle bugged or something?

Yes, the dodge % is far higher than intended which makes a lot of DK's who run it dodge practically every skill. I don't even both with DK's if I see them use it.

As for RD, most of the Temp's I came across spammed only this skill and nothing else from full health. Made me lol but when you have 5 on you spamming RD it get's a little annoying. As for dodging it, it's rather easy, l2p if you can't dodge it.

Ah, I see. Has ZOS acknowledged this? Or is it some theory that is being thrown around? Also from what I understand, one cannot dodge RD yes? We can get out of its range, or interrupt or LOS given the situation yes?

Farorin

Fix templars, make them useful, and only then will I complain about Radiant Destruction.

Until then, let the poor guys have their single truly useful skill.

FriedEggSandwich

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

Mages Fury (sorc execute) procs when your HP drops to a certain %.
So if u got mages furied, and your still alive but something brought your HP down to that %, you will blow up.

Cant be interrupted or dodged. So why aren't we QQing about that?
You want proof? Play a magplar and see the side effects from speccing everything into "jesus beam 1 shot" builds if you want to call it that.

This is true but the execute threshold of mages wrath is 25%, the execute threshold of RD is 50%. If we're comparing the two. I don't want RD to be dodgeable, I don't want the execute threshold reduced, I just want it to execute only if cast when target was below 50%. All this would do is nerf the skill for those that use it on targets over 50%.

Destruent

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

Mages Fury (sorc execute) procs when your HP drops to a certain %.
So if u got mages furied, and your still alive but something brought your HP down to that %, you will blow up.

Cant be interrupted or dodged. So why aren't we QQing about that?
You want proof? Play a magplar and see the side effects from speccing everything into "jesus beam 1 shot" builds if you want to call it that.

This is true but the execute threshold of mages wrath is 25%, the execute threshold of RD is 50%. If we're comparing the two. I don't want RD to be dodgeable, I don't want the execute threshold reduced, I just want it to execute only if cast when target was below 50%. All this would do is nerf the skill for those that use it on targets over 50%.

lol...better inform before posting. Mages wrath threshhold is 20%. The threshhold of executioner, poison injection AND radiant is 50%. The treshhold for impale/killers blade is 25%.
peolpe don't spam radiant to execute even when the target is over 50%, they use it bc templars don't have any instant-hitting ranged ability to use. Dark flare usually hits when the targe is already dead (but does way more dmg until ~30%, same with jabs in meelee range).

ArgoCye

Someone whines about RD and another brings up RD zergs but let's not talk about the Prox Det elephant waving its explody trunk in the room. Now if any skill is being abused it is that - in all forms of the game. I get killed waaaaay more times from that and I'm even seeing stamina builds use it. RD is the least of my worries.

Reykice

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

Radiant Destruction is literally the "counter to all stamina archetypes", and has substantially less counter play options when outnumbered or group vs. group.

• Stamina builds can't atrifically inflate our HP pool with shields, we don't have access to as many healing abilities (Rally and Vigor are really it in PvP), the only benefit is having a larger stamina pool to roll dodge more often which serves as our health pool inflation due to dodged attacks.
• CP passive Thick Skinned doesn't work because the ability scales damage after every tick, reducing a 8k tick to 6k from CP still doesn't help enough when you're at 30% hp.

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

It is a shame so many call for nerfs without trying to figure out counters to their problems. I guess it's easier to cry nerf than to plan or improve your game style.

Krist wrote: »

Basically we should be upset that we cannot beat a 5 on 1 scenario because someone has a skill we cannot counter when there are 4 others attacking us? Does that about sum it up?

Funny.

You would never assume that good pvp players have opinions about reverting the dodge change to Radiant Destruction, do you? You know, players with refined builds that easily do 1v3 or 1v4? Players which actually support their nerf/buff opinions with full detail, unlike you all supporting the change.

These stats are all post-Thieve's Guild and solo play 90% of the time.

Radiant Destruction is a problem in group play, specifically being much stronger than all other ranged abilities when sitting behind allies.

• Someone spamming snipe from behind a group? You can dodge roll it as you retreat or time a block.
• Someone spamming Crystal Fragments from behind a group? You can dodge roll it as you retreat or time a block.
• Someone spamming Swallow Soul from behind a group? You can dodge roll it it as you retreat.
• Someone spamming Wrecking Blow / Critical Rush while you're being chased? You can dodge roll it or time a block.
• Someone spamming Radiant Destruction from behind a group? You can't dodge roll it now, and you can't time blocks because it ticks damage on the zero second cast and then every 1 second afterward for the duration. The only option against Radiant Destruction (not in a 1v1 like all of you keep trying to make your arguments with) is hoping some random person interrupts them.

Hjelmerina wrote: »

@Fat_Cat45 ╭∩╮◕ل͜◕)

╭∩╮◕ل͜◕) @Hjelmerina

Alcast wrote: »

Ok here you go boys and girls. People that still think Radiant Destruction is balanced should watch this video.

I do know it is not an issue in 1v1. But it becomes one in open world pvp.

And NO you can NOT INTERRUPT the 47m beam. Why? Because you are long dead before you reach the beamer lolololol

https://youtu.be/8Q8v-oTHPio

This video by @Alcast showcases a lot of examples of what is wrong with this ability in combat larger than 1v1. The potential of this ability when guarded by a group vs. the potential of other existing abilities when guarded by a group (the comparison I made above).

You are aware the Oh So Op Beam did 2-3k damage when the target was not very low hp. So you are crying over what? Pretty much any spell does more, unless you are in execute range.

Yea if 5 people do it on your that 2k adds up, but if you have 5 people doing any spell on you you should die, i`m fairly sure they don`t want people to win 1v5 engagements.

So unless you think that a 2k tick is somehow OP when the Sorcs and Nb`s can kill you in under a second, you have no point.

You can pop a Rapid Regen and outheal the beam, you will never get low. If other people get you low and you die from it then its basically doing what its designed to do, kill low hp targets. But its only finishing you off, most of the damage won`t be from it.

I think people are just scared because its new(was fixed + more are playing templar now), in time they will adapt but for now its the first instinct "omg omg it killed me nerrrffff itttttttttt!!!111".

FriedEggSandwich

Destruent wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

Mages Fury (sorc execute) procs when your HP drops to a certain %.
So if u got mages furied, and your still alive but something brought your HP down to that %, you will blow up.

Cant be interrupted or dodged. So why aren't we QQing about that?
You want proof? Play a magplar and see the side effects from speccing everything into "jesus beam 1 shot" builds if you want to call it that.

This is true but the execute threshold of mages wrath is 25%, the execute threshold of RD is 50%. If we're comparing the two. I don't want RD to be dodgeable, I don't want the execute threshold reduced, I just want it to execute only if cast when target was below 50%. All this would do is nerf the skill for those that use it on targets over 50%.

lol...better inform before posting. Mages wrath threshhold is 20%. The threshhold of executioner, poison injection AND radiant is 50%. The treshhold for impale/killers blade is 25%.
peolpe don't spam radiant to execute even when the target is over 50%, they use it bc templars don't have any instant-hitting ranged ability to use. Dark flare usually hits when the targe is already dead (but does way more dmg until ~30%, same with jabs in meelee range).

I don't understand your opening sentence. I assume you mean get informed before posting? 20% actually strengthens my argument, thanks for pointing it out.

Destruent

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

Mages Fury (sorc execute) procs when your HP drops to a certain %.
So if u got mages furied, and your still alive but something brought your HP down to that %, you will blow up.

Cant be interrupted or dodged. So why aren't we QQing about that?
You want proof? Play a magplar and see the side effects from speccing everything into "jesus beam 1 shot" builds if you want to call it that.

This is true but the execute threshold of mages wrath is 25%, the execute threshold of RD is 50%. If we're comparing the two. I don't want RD to be dodgeable, I don't want the execute threshold reduced, I just want it to execute only if cast when target was below 50%. All this would do is nerf the skill for those that use it on targets over 50%.

lol...better inform before posting. Mages wrath threshhold is 20%. The threshhold of executioner, poison injection AND radiant is 50%. The treshhold for impale/killers blade is 25%.
peolpe don't spam radiant to execute even when the target is over 50%, they use it bc templars don't have any instant-hitting ranged ability to use. Dark flare usually hits when the targe is already dead (but does way more dmg until ~30%, same with jabs in meelee range).

I don't understand your opening sentence. I assume you mean get informed before posting? 20% actually strengthens my argument, thanks for pointing it out.

3/5 executes have their threshhold at 50%....your point is?

Bashev

Nifty2g wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

you can purge it
you can interrupt it
the templar stands still and has no mobility

other executes you can
animation cancel
have mobility
can't interrupt it

seems like a fair trade off to completely leave yourself open and do good damage.
risk/reward

\\\
though i agree, let people be able to dodge it to stop the qq, nerfing it will still include qq as people will still insta die from it once they hit low health.

The logic behind "you can interrupt it" is a little bit funny cause I ever take the first tick. You cannot interrupt it before the first tick. Sometimes one tick is 4-5k damage on me. If I use a skull to interrupt it then I lose the CD for a heal or shield skill and the templar is casting again jesus beam. The range should be reduced to a mele range, so it is easy to be interrupted with bash and people who use the skill will be at risk. Risk vs reward.

Destruent

Bashev wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

you can purge it
you can interrupt it
the templar stands still and has no mobility

other executes you can
animation cancel
have mobility
can't interrupt it

seems like a fair trade off to completely leave yourself open and do good damage.
risk/reward

\\\
though i agree, let people be able to dodge it to stop the qq, nerfing it will still include qq as people will still insta die from it once they hit low health.

The logic behind "you can interrupt it" is a little bit funny cause I ever take the first tick. You cannot interrupt it before the first tick. Sometimes one tick is 4-5k damage on me. If I use a skull to interrupt it then I lose the CD for a heal or shield skill and the templar is casting again jesus beam. The range should be reduced to a mele range, so it is easy to be interrupted with bash and people who use the skill will be at risk. Risk vs reward.

You have a risk using this skill when your enemys actually cares/attacks you....if not, no skill has any risk involved...

Bashev

Destruent wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

you can purge it
you can interrupt it
the templar stands still and has no mobility

other executes you can
animation cancel
have mobility
can't interrupt it

seems like a fair trade off to completely leave yourself open and do good damage.
risk/reward

\\\
though i agree, let people be able to dodge it to stop the qq, nerfing it will still include qq as people will still insta die from it once they hit low health.

The logic behind "you can interrupt it" is a little bit funny cause I ever take the first tick. You cannot interrupt it before the first tick. Sometimes one tick is 4-5k damage on me. If I use a skull to interrupt it then I lose the CD for a heal or shield skill and the templar is casting again jesus beam. The range should be reduced to a mele range, so it is easy to be interrupted with bash and people who use the skill will be at risk. Risk vs reward.

You have a risk using this skill when your enemys actually cares/attacks you....if not, no skill has any risk involved...

If you are smart enough you dont have any risk when the skill range is 36m in Cyro.

Reevster

Poor Templars, just cant get a break, they finally get a decent working skill and all other classes start swinging the nerf threads.

Lol too funny, well not really.

Destruent

Bashev wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

you can purge it
you can interrupt it
the templar stands still and has no mobility

other executes you can
animation cancel
have mobility
can't interrupt it

seems like a fair trade off to completely leave yourself open and do good damage.
risk/reward

\\\
though i agree, let people be able to dodge it to stop the qq, nerfing it will still include qq as people will still insta die from it once they hit low health.

The logic behind "you can interrupt it" is a little bit funny cause I ever take the first tick. You cannot interrupt it before the first tick. Sometimes one tick is 4-5k damage on me. If I use a skull to interrupt it then I lose the CD for a heal or shield skill and the templar is casting again jesus beam. The range should be reduced to a mele range, so it is easy to be interrupted with bash and people who use the skill will be at risk. Risk vs reward.

You have a risk using this skill when your enemys actually cares/attacks you....if not, no skill has any risk involved...

If you are smart enough you dont have any risk when the skill range is 36m in Cyro.

It's the same range as crushing shock/venom arrow. If the templar killed you too fast to react you just got ganked...any NB/SOrc/DK could do this...why not templars?

Bashev

Destruent wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

you can purge it
you can interrupt it
the templar stands still and has no mobility

other executes you can
animation cancel
have mobility
can't interrupt it

seems like a fair trade off to completely leave yourself open and do good damage.
risk/reward

\\\
though i agree, let people be able to dodge it to stop the qq, nerfing it will still include qq as people will still insta die from it once they hit low health.

The logic behind "you can interrupt it" is a little bit funny cause I ever take the first tick. You cannot interrupt it before the first tick. Sometimes one tick is 4-5k damage on me. If I use a skull to interrupt it then I lose the CD for a heal or shield skill and the templar is casting again jesus beam. The range should be reduced to a mele range, so it is easy to be interrupted with bash and people who use the skill will be at risk. Risk vs reward.

You have a risk using this skill when your enemys actually cares/attacks you....if not, no skill has any risk involved...

If you are smart enough you dont have any risk when the skill range is 36m in Cyro.

It's the same range as crushing shock/venom arrow. If the templar killed you too fast to react you just got ganked...any NB/SOrc/DK could do this...why not templars?

You forgot that eso has massive pvp battles. Fighting 10 vs 10 I should use aim bot to pinpoint these Templars who Jesus beam me.

Destruent

Bashev wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

you can purge it
you can interrupt it
the templar stands still and has no mobility

other executes you can
animation cancel
have mobility
can't interrupt it

seems like a fair trade off to completely leave yourself open and do good damage.
risk/reward

\\\
though i agree, let people be able to dodge it to stop the qq, nerfing it will still include qq as people will still insta die from it once they hit low health.

The logic behind "you can interrupt it" is a little bit funny cause I ever take the first tick. You cannot interrupt it before the first tick. Sometimes one tick is 4-5k damage on me. If I use a skull to interrupt it then I lose the CD for a heal or shield skill and the templar is casting again jesus beam. The range should be reduced to a mele range, so it is easy to be interrupted with bash and people who use the skill will be at risk. Risk vs reward.

You have a risk using this skill when your enemys actually cares/attacks you....if not, no skill has any risk involved...

If you are smart enough you dont have any risk when the skill range is 36m in Cyro.

It's the same range as crushing shock/venom arrow. If the templar killed you too fast to react you just got ganked...any NB/SOrc/DK could do this...why not templars?

You forgot that eso has massive pvp battles. Fighting 10 vs 10 I should use aim bot to pinpoint these Templars who Jesus beam me.

Maybe your group should focus them down...they are no healbots anymore...

failkiwib16_ESO

Lately every nerf-RD thread I've read, have been about 1vX templars. Not 1v1, but 1vX....

Lutallo

RD is a channeled ability, therefore it can't be dodged. Same with resto/lightning heavy attacks, puncturing sweeps, etc etc etc. Why should one exception be made to this rule?

Also, being a channeled execute means it can be interrupted, unlike any other execute in the entire game.
Yes it's extremely powerful, but it's expensive to cast AND it can be interrupted, unlike other executes.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

Current executes:

2H Executioner: Melee range, can be dodged.
Nightblade Impale: Melee range, can be dodged. Morph to a short ranged attack, can be dodged.
Bow Poison Injection: Ranged, damage over time, can only dodge the initial hit but not the DoT (Not a true execute in my opinion, but it does do 200% extra damage at max).
Sorcerer Mage's Wrath: Ranged, can not be dodged (the execute explosion), only procs at 20% or less health.

And then....

Radiant Destruction: Ranged, can not be dodged, channel, extremely far range, 50% or less hp to trigger bonus damage.

There's another issue with Radiant Destruction too involving line of sight checks. The ability will not consider line of sight unless the entire 1 second interval between damage ticks is blocked by line of sight. So if only the last 0.5 seconds of the 1 second interval before the next tick of damage is cut by line of sight, you will still take damage. So good luck actually using line of sight to try and counter Radiant Destruction.

I have a strong tolerance for any sort of imbalance, bug, or abusing of bugs, but the change to make Radiant Destruction not able to be dodged is the one change I am mad about.

Either bring other executes up to par with Radiant Destruction so they can't be dodged, or allow it to be dodged. It was in a perfectly fine position before this dodge change. It's obviously riskier gameplay to get off a melee range execute than sit behind a few players and have the execute auto-target for you.

This is all from the perspective of a player who only plays stamina of each class. If I were to relate this to a magicka build, think of Radiant Destruction doing damage through shields. Roll dodge is our "temporary health shield" because any attacks that get dodged can be interpreted as "getting absorbed" just like a damage shield.

And putting extra Champion Points into Tick Skinned does nowhere near enough to negate the issue of Radiant Destruction not being able to be dodged

bow users field day or destroy staff has a skill to counter that for magic users... or bash it..... there are a list of skills that stop radiant destruction u should learn them I made a post about it before I could link it here for you just so you can see how easy it is.

EDIT: here they are
Bash
Block
Don't roll
Don't mist form
Stonefist
Crushing Shock
Deepbreath
Flame Reach
WB
Magnum Shot
Javelin
Power Bash
Cloak
Purge
Purify
Crystal Frag
Familiar Explosion
Prison
Silver Shards(if vamp)
Dawnbreaker(if vamp)
Turn Undead(if vamp)
Fear
Meteor
Fire Rune
Drain(vamp)
LOS
Howl(WW)
Dragonleap
Soul Tether
Incapacitating Strike
Agony
Petrify
Any Shield(Hardened, Rock, Blazing, Magic Harness, Healing Ward)
Toppling(when it works)
Luminous Shards
Streak
Venom Arrow

Way to list all the CCs. There is such a thing as CC immunity. You can CC to interrupt the first cast, but they can CC break then get several seconds of immunity to cast RD on you, and in that case only a couple of the skills you listed are actually interrupts vice CCs. And if you haven't noticed, you regularly get several Templars casting Radiant Destruction on you at the same time, from 100% health. It is much like Wrecking Blow...1v1 it is easy to avoid. In the zerg fest that is Cyrodiil, that is not often the case.

Now, I am not calling for a nerf, or supporting one for that matter either. I am mentioning this so that you do not so idly blow off the OP's concern.

yes he listed cc's and there is cc immunity so its an overstatement, but there is no immunity to things that interrupt, so immunity or not: bash, crushing shock, poison arrow, deep breath, topple/explosive charge,( im sure there are more) work 100% of the time as well as purge, cloak, purify work no matter what.
every build has access to at least one thing that will stop radient 100% of the time. dont want to slot it? what a sad story better get to the QQ train.

I can't help but lol. You just argued with me stating exactly the same thing I did..."but they can CC break then get several seconds of immunity to cast RD on you, and in that case only a couple of the skills you listed are actually interrupts vice CCs." I didn't feel I needed to list each skill as I assume most of you are grown adults and don't need a tutorial on how to play.

I am not arguing for a nerf, or supporting one either. My only point was that people should not so idly blow off the OPs concern.

There are a lot of arguments in this thread that you should never die from a beam spam. And for the most part, that is correct. The beam is easy to counter most of the time, especially 1v1. However, in the zerg fest that is upper world Cyrodiil, you often get several Templars spamming RD at you at the same time, from range, and from multiple directions. Not much you can do about that, regardless of what skills you slot.

aside from the fact that purge gets rid of all the rd on you and everyone in your group, ya i guess there is nothing that can be done