The inability to dodge Radiant Destruction is too extreme

FriedEggSandwich

Destruent wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

Mages Fury (sorc execute) procs when your HP drops to a certain %.
So if u got mages furied, and your still alive but something brought your HP down to that %, you will blow up.

Cant be interrupted or dodged. So why aren't we QQing about that?
You want proof? Play a magplar and see the side effects from speccing everything into "jesus beam 1 shot" builds if you want to call it that.

This is true but the execute threshold of mages wrath is 25%, the execute threshold of RD is 50%. If we're comparing the two. I don't want RD to be dodgeable, I don't want the execute threshold reduced, I just want it to execute only if cast when target was below 50%. All this would do is nerf the skill for those that use it on targets over 50%.

lol...better inform before posting. Mages wrath threshhold is 20%. The threshhold of executioner, poison injection AND radiant is 50%. The treshhold for impale/killers blade is 25%.
peolpe don't spam radiant to execute even when the target is over 50%, they use it bc templars don't have any instant-hitting ranged ability to use. Dark flare usually hits when the targe is already dead (but does way more dmg until ~30%, same with jabs in meelee range).

I don't understand your opening sentence. I assume you mean get informed before posting? 20% actually strengthens my argument, thanks for pointing it out.

3/5 executes have their threshhold at 50%....your point is?

My point is further up the thread if you'd care to look, nothing terribly controversial, I'm a reasonable guy.

rfennell_ESO

The issue with radiant destruction is how it scales per tick.

It shouldn't do that. If they start at 100% it should do it's normal damage @ that health.

It shouldn't auto scale itself based on health % on the fly, at least not when it's basically unavoidable.

Bofrari

Complete L2P issue/working as intended confirmed by ZOS.

Obliterate

Lol, lets just nerf every class.

Or not, things are fine as they are.

Destruent

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The issue with radiant destruction is how it scales per tick.

It shouldn't do that. If they start at 100% it should do it's normal damage @ that health.

It shouldn't auto scale itself based on health % on the fly, at least not when it's basically unavoidable.

But pls don't complain if i start using raidiant at 10% and you got healed

instead of 15k, 4k, 4k 4k it will be 15k, 15k, 15k, 15k. I don't think that's better for you

danno8

Bashev wrote: »

The range should be reduced to a mele range, so it is easy to be interrupted with bash and people who use the skill will be at risk. Risk vs reward.

lol, a melee range 3s channel that can be interrupted?

Question: How popular was Wrecking Blow before they made it uninterruptable? Yah that's right. Nobody used it.

danno8

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The issue with radiant destruction is how it scales per tick.

It shouldn't do that. If they start at 100% it should do it's normal damage @ that health.

It shouldn't auto scale itself based on health % on the fly, at least not when it's basically unavoidable.

What happens if someone heals themselves out of execute range? Will it still do execute damage out of execute range if they started the channel while in execute range?

danno8

Destruent wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The issue with radiant destruction is how it scales per tick.

It shouldn't do that. If they start at 100% it should do it's normal damage @ that health.

It shouldn't auto scale itself based on health % on the fly, at least not when it's basically unavoidable.

But pls don't complain if i start using raidiant at 10% and you got healed

instead of 15k, 4k, 4k 4k it will be 15k, 15k, 15k, 15k. I don't think that's better for you

No one will survive a 15k tick while in execute range.

But it is not out of the ordinary to get 6-7k ticks at around 30% health, which is survivable if they have a pool of around 30k health.

Destruent

danno8 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The issue with radiant destruction is how it scales per tick.

It shouldn't do that. If they start at 100% it should do it's normal damage @ that health.

It shouldn't auto scale itself based on health % on the fly, at least not when it's basically unavoidable.

But pls don't complain if i start using raidiant at 10% and you got healed

instead of 15k, 4k, 4k 4k it will be 15k, 15k, 15k, 15k. I don't think that's better for you

No one will survive a 15k tick while in execute range.

But it is not out of the ordinary to get 6-7k ticks at around 30% health, which is survivable if they have a pool of around 30k health.

Shields are your friend....

Bashev

Destruent wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The issue with radiant destruction is how it scales per tick.

It shouldn't do that. If they start at 100% it should do it's normal damage @ that health.

It shouldn't auto scale itself based on health % on the fly, at least not when it's basically unavoidable.

But pls don't complain if i start using raidiant at 10% and you got healed

instead of 15k, 4k, 4k 4k it will be 15k, 15k, 15k, 15k. I don't think that's better for you

No one will survive a 15k tick while in execute range.

But it is not out of the ordinary to get 6-7k ticks at around 30% health, which is survivable if they have a pool of around 30k health.

Shields are your friend....

I doubt that you will find any magicka Sorcs or magicka NBs who complain about this skill. Sorcs can shield, NBs can cloak.

Destruent

Bashev wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The issue with radiant destruction is how it scales per tick.

It shouldn't do that. If they start at 100% it should do it's normal damage @ that health.

It shouldn't auto scale itself based on health % on the fly, at least not when it's basically unavoidable.

But pls don't complain if i start using raidiant at 10% and you got healed

instead of 15k, 4k, 4k 4k it will be 15k, 15k, 15k, 15k. I don't think that's better for you

No one will survive a 15k tick while in execute range.

But it is not out of the ordinary to get 6-7k ticks at around 30% health, which is survivable if they have a pool of around 30k health.

Shields are your friend....

I doubt that you will find any magicka Sorcs or magicka NBs who complain about this skill. Sorcs can shield, NBs can cloak.

doesn't change the fast, that the presented idea isn't that good at all...

myrrrorb14_ESO

Bashev wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

you can purge it
you can interrupt it
the templar stands still and has no mobility

other executes you can
animation cancel
have mobility
can't interrupt it

seems like a fair trade off to completely leave yourself open and do good damage.
risk/reward

\\\
though i agree, let people be able to dodge it to stop the qq, nerfing it will still include qq as people will still insta die from it once they hit low health.

The logic behind "you can interrupt it" is a little bit funny cause I ever take the first tick. You cannot interrupt it before the first tick. Sometimes one tick is 4-5k damage on me. If I use a skull to interrupt it then I lose the CD for a heal or shield skill and the templar is casting again jesus beam. The range should be reduced to a mele range, so it is easy to be interrupted with bash and people who use the skill will be at risk. Risk vs reward.

You have a risk using this skill when your enemys actually cares/attacks you....if not, no skill has any risk involved...

If you are smart enough you dont have any risk when the skill range is 36m in Cyro.

At that range you can just walk out of the skills range. Pop a HoT. Walk around a corner.

Well maybe not if you run a glass cannon with no health.

danno8

Destruent wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The issue with radiant destruction is how it scales per tick.

It shouldn't do that. If they start at 100% it should do it's normal damage @ that health.

It shouldn't auto scale itself based on health % on the fly, at least not when it's basically unavoidable.

But pls don't complain if i start using raidiant at 10% and you got healed

instead of 15k, 4k, 4k 4k it will be 15k, 15k, 15k, 15k. I don't think that's better for you

No one will survive a 15k tick while in execute range.

But it is not out of the ordinary to get 6-7k ticks at around 30% health, which is survivable if they have a pool of around 30k health.

Shields are your friend....

What I am saying is if someone is in execute range and takes a 15k tick, then they must be very low health and the 15k tick will (over)kill them.

If they have shield on then I am not sure how low health you have to be to take a 15k non crit (because shields prevent criticals) but the math doesn't add up to anything except an extreme case on both ends of the equation.

Nevertheless a stamina build with a shield is obviously not going to happen, so while I would suggest slotting Purge and running out of range (or getting into melee range) I don't think I would recommend a shield to a stamina build.

Destruent

danno8 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The issue with radiant destruction is how it scales per tick.

It shouldn't do that. If they start at 100% it should do it's normal damage @ that health.

It shouldn't auto scale itself based on health % on the fly, at least not when it's basically unavoidable.

But pls don't complain if i start using raidiant at 10% and you got healed

instead of 15k, 4k, 4k 4k it will be 15k, 15k, 15k, 15k. I don't think that's better for you

No one will survive a 15k tick while in execute range.

But it is not out of the ordinary to get 6-7k ticks at around 30% health, which is survivable if they have a pool of around 30k health.

Shields are your friend....

What I am saying is if someone is in execute range and takes a 15k tick, then they must be very low health and the 15k tick will (over)kill them.

If they have shield on then I am not sure how low health you have to be to take a 15k non crit (because shields prevent criticals) but the math doesn't add up to anything except an extreme case on both ends of the equation.

Nevertheless a stamina build with a shield is obviously not going to happen, so while I would suggest slotting Purge and running out of range (or getting into melee range) I don't think I would recommend a shield to a stamina build.

Should be possible...i had some 10k+ ticks on shields yesterday and i have not that much magicka/spelldmg. believe me...you don't want that....

Rawst

reften wrote: »

OMG I DIED TO SOMETHING NERF IT.

just stop

This.

Please leave Radiant Destruction alone, it was said by an admin in a similar topic that it is working as intended. With it, even I have a slight chance of scoring a few kills at pvp with my super-casual Templar. If you want to take this away from me, you are a monster and I will RD-spam you to Oblivion. Go pick on Nightblades or something, 70% of the time I can't even get out of the damn CC before they kill me. And if I can, they're suddenly not visible but the attacks still keep coming and I end up dead anyway. Sometimes I don't even see the attack animations.

blabafat

Leave it undodgeable. Make the execute start at 30%. Reduce range to 15 meters or so

sirrmattus

Alcast wrote: »

Ok here you go boys and girls. People that still think Radiant Destruction is balanced should watch this video.
I do know it is not an issue in 1v1. But it becomes one in open world pvp.

And NO you can NOT INTERRUPT the *** 47m beam. Why? Because you are long dead before you reach the beamer lolololol

https://youtu.be/8Q8v-oTHPio

this is your redguard templar isnt it?? lmao

@Alcast

sirrmattus

Alcast wrote: »

Ok here you go boys and girls. People that still think Radiant Destruction is balanced should watch this video.
I do know it is not an issue in 1v1. But it becomes one in open world pvp.

And NO you can NOT INTERRUPT the *** 47m beam. Why? Because you are long dead before you reach the beamer lolololol

https://youtu.be/8Q8v-oTHPio

fkn ey dude. youre hitting them from a mile away

rfennell_ESO

danno8 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The issue with radiant destruction is how it scales per tick.

It shouldn't do that. If they start at 100% it should do it's normal damage @ that health.

It shouldn't auto scale itself based on health % on the fly, at least not when it's basically unavoidable.

What happens if someone heals themselves out of execute range? Will it still do execute damage out of execute range if they started the channel while in execute range?

Well, I'd say the multiplier on damage could easily scale down, the problem most people seem to have with it is when it scales up.

Anyways, I hate channeled abilities in general... they are so broken most of the time.

Joy_Division

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

Current executes:

2H Executioner: Melee range, can be dodged. Also: is Insta-cast, can be block-casted, doesn't lock you into an 70% snare, can be animation canceled for further damage, cannot be interrupted, full damage is immediate, 50% or less hp to trigger bonus damage.
Nightblade Impale: Melee range, can be dodged. Morph to a short ranged attack, can be dodged.Also: is Insta-cast, can be block-casted, doesn't lock you into an 70% snare, can be animation canceled for further damage, cannot be interrupted, full damage is immediate.
Bow Poison Injection: Ranged, damage over time, can only dodge the initial hit but not the DoT (Not a true execute in my opinion, but it does do 200% extra damage at max). This isn't a proper execute
Sorcerer Mage's Wrath: extremely far Ranged i][b]If RD is "extremely far" then so is this since it's the same distance[/b][/i, can not be dodged (the execute explosion), only procs at 20% or less health, but can be pre-cast before that threshold and yet will still trigger when that condition is met. Also, is Insta-cast, can be block-casted, doesn't lock you into an 70% snare, can be animation canceled for further damage, cannot be interrupted.

And then....

Radiant Destruction: Ranged, can not be dodged, channel which means you are locked into a 70% snare, is interruptible, cannot be animation canceled for additional damage, leave the caster defensless, damage is not immediate, extremely far misleading adjective, it has the standard distance of other ranged attacks range, 50% or less hp to trigger bonus damage again misleading as Executioner shares this exact same mechanic but was not mentioned.

I have a strong tolerance for any sort of imbalance, bug, or abusing of bugs, but the change to make Radiant Destruction not able to be dodged is the one change I have ever been mad about. Apparently not. Channeled attacks being dodgeable was not intended as per ZoS and thus bugged. What you mean to say is you tolerate bugs that favor your playstyle

Either bring other executes up to par with Radiant Destruction so they can't be dodged, or allow it to be dodged. they have different casting mechanics, something you fail to mentioned, and thus different characteristics It was in a perfectly fine position before this dodge change. You mean perfectly fine for your stamina build. It was not "perfectly fine" for templars who were stuck with all the disadvantages of being locked in a channel without any benefits It's obviously riskier gameplay to get off a melee range execute than sit behind a few players and have the execute auto-target for you. Brilliant deduction. RD carries little risk when hiding in a zerg. Because melee players don;t zerg or derive the same benefits when surrounded bu their allies? What is the RD user doesn't have a few players to hide behind?

This is my main issue:
If I were to relate this to a magicka build, think of Radiant Destruction doing damage through shields. Roll dodge is our "temporary health shield" because any attacks that get dodged can be interpreted as "getting absorbed" just like a damage shield.
"Ours"? Well, at least you make no pretense of being objective. But again you make the mistake of comparing apples to oranges. These are two entirely different mechanics. A player with a shield that gets hit with something still suffers the negative effects of that skill. Dodge completely avoids them. If I have a shield up and get hit with a crystal frag, I am stunned. If I dodge it, I am not This makes dodge-rolling a superior means of defense. At the click of a button, dodge will enable a player to completely avoid the damage and corresponding negative effects of every instant-cast single target ability in the game. There are two counters to dodge, AoEs and channeled attacks. RD is a channel. It's not supposed to be dodged. It is supposed to be shielded. Different mechanics, with different functions, and different intents. You can not treat them the same.

And putting extra Champion Points into Tick Skinned does nowhere near enough to negate the issue of Radiant Destruction not being able to be dodged. This one ability is what ruins any fights where I'm outnumbered on my stamina characters. Welcome to the club. Your wrecking blows, fears, ambushes, snipes, surprise attacks, and other high damaging insta-cast abilities all ruin any fights where I'm outnumered on my magicka templar. I have a toolkit that is inadequte to deal with these type of attacks: low armor that is all but penetrated, a gimped class shield, no form of AoE CC, zero mobility, a overly nerfed and impractical reflect-debuff. I have to dodge and blocked these forums of attacks with a whooping 14K stamina ppol which is enough for maybe 3 of these and 1 CC break and then I'm dead. I'd *love* to be able to purge wrecking blow the way you want to dodge RD, but I'm guessing that thought never crossed your mind. Or that maybe there is something to the fact that templars who use RD are ill-suited to deal with the attacks from stamina players while stamina players are ill-suited to deal with the attacks from magicka templars.

sirrmattus

Joy_Division wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

Current executes:

2H Executioner: Melee range, can be dodged. Also: is Insta-cast, can be block-casted, doesn't lock you into an 70% snare, can be animation canceled for further damage, cannot be interrupted, full damage is immediate, 50% or less hp to trigger bonus damage.
Nightblade Impale: Melee range, can be dodged. Morph to a short ranged attack, can be dodged.Also: is Insta-cast, can be block-casted, doesn't lock you into an 70% snare, can be animation canceled for further damage, cannot be interrupted, full damage is immediate.
Bow Poison Injection: Ranged, damage over time, can only dodge the initial hit but not the DoT (Not a true execute in my opinion, but it does do 200% extra damage at max). This isn't a proper execute
Sorcerer Mage's Wrath: extremely far Ranged i][b]If RD is "extremely far" then so is this since it's the same distance[/b][/i, can not be dodged (the execute explosion), only procs at 20% or less health, but can be pre-cast before that threshold and yet will still trigger when that condition is met. Also, is Insta-cast, can be block-casted, doesn't lock you into an 70% snare, can be animation canceled for further damage, cannot be interrupted.

And then....

Radiant Destruction: Ranged, can not be dodged, channel which means you are locked into a 70% snare, is interruptible, cannot be animation canceled for additional damage, leave the caster defensless, damage is not immediate, extremely far misleading adjective, it has the standard distance of other ranged attacks range, 50% or less hp to trigger bonus damage again misleading as Executioner shares this exact same mechanic but was not mentioned.

I have a strong tolerance for any sort of imbalance, bug, or abusing of bugs, but the change to make Radiant Destruction not able to be dodged is the one change I have ever been mad about. Apparently not. Channeled attacks being dodgeable was not intended as per ZoS and thus bugged. What you mean to say is you tolerate bugs that favor your playstyle

Either bring other executes up to par with Radiant Destruction so they can't be dodged, or allow it to be dodged. they have different casting mechanics, something you fail to mentioned, and thus different characteristics It was in a perfectly fine position before this dodge change. You mean perfectly fine for your stamina build. It was not "perfectly fine" for templars who were stuck with all the disadvantages of being locked in a channel without any benefits It's obviously riskier gameplay to get off a melee range execute than sit behind a few players and have the execute auto-target for you. Brilliant deduction. RD carries little risk when hiding in a zerg. Because melee players don;t zerg or derive the same benefits when surrounded bu their allies? What is the RD user doesn't have a few players to hide behind?

This is my main issue:
If I were to relate this to a magicka build, think of Radiant Destruction doing damage through shields. Roll dodge is our "temporary health shield" because any attacks that get dodged can be interpreted as "getting absorbed" just like a damage shield.
"Ours"? Well, at least you make no pretense of being objective. But again you make the mistake of comparing apples to oranges. These are two entirely different mechanics. A player with a shield that gets hit with something still suffers the negative effects of that skill. Dodge completely avoids them. If I have a shield up and get hit with a crystal frag, I am stunned. If I dodge it, I am not This makes dodge-rolling a superior means of defense. At the click of a button, dodge will enable a player to completely avoid the damage and corresponding negative effects of every instant-cast single target ability in the game. There are two counters to dodge, AoEs and channeled attacks. RD is a channel. It's not supposed to be dodged. It is supposed to be shielded. Different mechanics, with different functions, and different intents. You can not treat them the same.

And putting extra Champion Points into Tick Skinned does nowhere near enough to negate the issue of Radiant Destruction not being able to be dodged. This one ability is what ruins any fights where I'm outnumbered on my stamina characters. Welcome to the club. Your wrecking blows, fears, ambushes, snipes, surprise attacks, and other high damaging insta-cast abilities all ruin any fights where I'm outnumered on my magicka templar. I have a toolkit that is inadequte to deal with these type of attacks: low armor that is all but penetrated, a gimped class shield, no form of AoE CC, zero mobility, a overly nerfed and impractical reflect-debuff. I have to dodge and blocked these forums of attacks with a whooping 14K stamina ppol which is enough for maybe 3 of these and 1 CC break and then I'm dead. I'd *love* to be able to purge wrecking blow the way you want to dodge RD, but I'm guessing that thought never crossed your mind. Or that maybe there is something to the fact that templars who use RD are ill-suited to deal with the attacks from stamina players while stamina players are ill-suited to deal with the attacks from magicka templars.

sounds like you need to L2P your templar

Alcast

@sirrmattus its my Altmer.

Cesille = Redguard
Cezille = altmer

Confusing I know >.>

sirrmattus

Alcast wrote: »

@sirrmattus its my Altmer.

Cesille = Redguard
Cezille = altmer

Confusing I know >.>

@Alcast

i see. ive always looked for any of your magick builds, but have never seen any

Alcast

sirrmattus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@sirrmattus its my Altmer.

Cesille = Redguard
Cezille = altmer

Confusing I know >.>

@Alcast

i see. ive always looked for any of your magick builds, but have never seen any

Ye because I did not have any haha xD. I only had stam characters kinda. Well my Redguard back in 1.3 was a Healer tho lol.
I will create a Magplar video soon. But first I have to do stam DK

sirrmattus

Alcast wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@sirrmattus its my Altmer.

Cesille = Redguard
Cezille = altmer

Confusing I know >.>

@Alcast

i see. ive always looked for any of your magick builds, but have never seen any

Ye because I did not have any haha xD. I only had stam characters kinda. Well my Redguard back in 1.3 was a Healer tho lol.
I will create a Magplar video soon. But first I have to do stam DK

I created an eu nb so i can find your dk and kill her in pvp. tbh no lie

hammayolettuce

Reduce range to 15m

Make execute start at 30%

Alcast

sirrmattus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@sirrmattus its my Altmer.

Cesille = Redguard
Cezille = altmer

Confusing I know >.>

@Alcast

i see. ive always looked for any of your magick builds, but have never seen any

Ye because I did not have any haha xD. I only had stam characters kinda. Well my Redguard back in 1.3 was a Healer tho lol.
I will create a Magplar video soon. But first I have to do stam DK

I created an eu nb so i can find your dk and kill her in pvp. tbh no lie

NBs are free AP for my DK, just come xD. Went on PVP with Xeloki today, took 5 mins till first person called me cheater lol..

sirrmattus

Alcast wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@sirrmattus its my Altmer.

Cesille = Redguard
Cezille = altmer

Confusing I know >.>

@Alcast

i see. ive always looked for any of your magick builds, but have never seen any

Ye because I did not have any haha xD. I only had stam characters kinda. Well my Redguard back in 1.3 was a Healer tho lol.
I will create a Magplar video soon. But first I have to do stam DK

I created an eu nb so i can find your dk and kill her in pvp. tbh no lie

NBs are free AP for my DK, just come xD. Went on PVP with Xeloki today, took 5 mins till first person called me cheater lol..

@Alcast

well he's only lvl 38 right now. and i dont have any CP

why they call you a cheater? cause of your WB ani-cancel? owell. i hav wb on my back bar specifically for hi resistence dk's and templars.

Alcast

sirrmattus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@sirrmattus its my Altmer.

Cesille = Redguard
Cezille = altmer

Confusing I know >.>

@Alcast

i see. ive always looked for any of your magick builds, but have never seen any

Ye because I did not have any haha xD. I only had stam characters kinda. Well my Redguard back in 1.3 was a Healer tho lol.
I will create a Magplar video soon. But first I have to do stam DK

I created an eu nb so i can find your dk and kill her in pvp. tbh no lie

NBs are free AP for my DK, just come xD. Went on PVP with Xeloki today, took 5 mins till first person called me cheater lol..

@Alcast

well he's only lvl 38 right now. and i dont have any CP

why they call you a cheater? cause of your WB ani-cancel? owell. i hav wb on my back bar specifically for hi resistence dk's and templars.

Because they can not animation cancel lol.

Ye the No CP crap is what keeps me off NA atm...grinding a char no problem but the *** CP man...

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

I would be fine with Radiant Oppression being dodgable if people couldn't infinite dodge roll. Revisit Softcaps in a responsible way and sure you can dodge it. Until then, L2P.

Softcaps is a fundamental issue with the game, not just being able to DR one ability.