Tel var stones

The_Great_Maldini

I know this is sort of a novel idea but why don't people use detect pots if they know people are hiding in the shadows waiting to hank them?

Jumper45

ESO Rogue Like.... lol

Sneakyfool

Solariken wrote: »

I feel like it should be 100%, but only up to 100% of the stones that the killer is carrying. So for example, if I am carrying 1000 stones and I kill you, I should get all of your stones but only up to 1000.

^^ This 100%

As someone who comes from Eve online so I'd be happy with 100% loss no matter what since (PvP zone) but even in Eve sometimes you have to gamble it all, atm this game favors the gankers which makes it a bit easy for them. There needs to be a system that brings balance to risk vs reward.

I wish I could put forth my own idea but so far this idea by Solariken is probably the best I've seen.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I just want to say that I enjoy the system the way it is simply because it works. It Incentivizes' group play, communication, awareness and planning. Without any risk all you would have is what occurs in the arena district during prime time, a cluster f**k.
I also feel the structure would benefit from MORE risk, not less. Hear me out. At the moment the most boring and counter productive thing in the sewers IMO is the cheap and easy suicide option. This effecient means of banking stones means that you never have the option to earn your stones back. If players had to run the stones home to bank them it would give much more excitement, more reason to group up small scale, and a chance to have your stones earned back by cutting them off on their way back to the base.

Get me unstuck and suicide should not be most effecient way to "earn" stones.

You talk about risk, but for who? Almost none of the gankers I actually manage to kill are carrying any stones. Where is the risk for THEM? They just show up and steal from grinders and then *poof* into thin air.

If anything, ZOS needs to makes changes that even the odds for the victims:

1) Make Sigils available for gold at reasonable price.

2) Make Sigils work IMMEDIATELY so that you can't be ganked while using them.

3) Change doors and gates so that they can be used in combat and work immediately.

4) Provide safe spaces in your own faction's sewer system that give PvP immunity, but only to members of that faction.

These changes would only be a START to addressing the massive imbalances that favor gankers over grinders! What we really need is a separate IC campaign just for PvE. They can give the MOBS 80% of my stones in order keep the "risk vs. reward" balance.

If one could not simply *poof* from the sewers at least you would have a chance at earning your stones back.

You will have to elaborate on what you refer to as a ganker, because to be ganked you need to be outnumbered as far as I unterstand it.

When I say "poof", I'm referring to the fact that most of these guys are Nightblades who use Cloak to move through the sewers undetected.

Basically, I define a ganker as anybody who goes into another faction's section of the sewer and kills players for their stones. They typically run in groups of 2 to 4, but there are plenty of them who run solo, too. If they are stam builds, they use a lot of gap closers and Wrecking Blows or Surprise attacks. If they are magicka builds, the dangerous ones tend to rely on Detonation and Bats.

If you drop a lot of stones (1000+), they never seem to stick around to see if you come back for revenge. Instead, you see them again 10 or 15 minutes later when you've built up another stash of stones

I hate being ganked as well and trust me I rage hard when losing all my stones to some lowlife hiding in the shadows outside my factions base so I decided that if I cant beat them I will join them. So I am currently leveling a NB so I can make quick escapes and keep all those stones.

Jaronking

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I just want to say that I enjoy the system the way it is simply because it works. It Incentivizes' group play, communication, awareness and planning. Without any risk all you would have is what occurs in the arena district during prime time, a cluster f**k.
I also feel the structure would benefit from MORE risk, not less. Hear me out. At the moment the most boring and counter productive thing in the sewers IMO is the cheap and easy suicide option. This effecient means of banking stones means that you never have the option to earn your stones back. If players had to run the stones home to bank them it would give much more excitement, more reason to group up small scale, and a chance to have your stones earned back by cutting them off on their way back to the base.

Get me unstuck and suicide should not be most effecient way to "earn" stones.

You talk about risk, but for who? Almost none of the gankers I actually manage to kill are carrying any stones. Where is the risk for THEM? They just show up and steal from grinders and then *poof* into thin air.

If anything, ZOS needs to makes changes that even the odds for the victims:

1) Make Sigils available for gold at reasonable price.

2) Make Sigils work IMMEDIATELY so that you can't be ganked while using them.

3) Change doors and gates so that they can be used in combat and work immediately.

4) Provide safe spaces in your own faction's sewer system that give PvP immunity, but only to members of that faction.

These changes would only be a START to addressing the massive imbalances that favor gankers over grinders! What we really need is a separate IC campaign just for PvE. They can give the MOBS 80% of my stones in order keep the "risk vs. reward" balance.

How is losing 80% of your stones to mobs any different from losing them to s player?Their no risk in facing a Mob their risk in facing a Player.Also you have to remember even Gankers can get gank. I have to ask why is dying to a player so frightening but dying to a NPC is fine.Is it a a problem admitting someone better then you.

PvE grinders are built to fight PvE mobs, so it's a much more balanced fight. Losing stones to a mob would be annoying, but it wouldn't be nearly as humiliating as knowing that there's a human being out there that is actually PROFITING from your misery... and enjoying it!

Personally, I don't think ganking Tel Var stones should even be possible, but since that's not likely to change, the least ZOS can do is give grinders a chance to escape.

NoMoreChillies

Solariken wrote: »

I feel like it should be 100%, but only up to 100% of the stones that the killer is carrying. So for example, if I am carrying 1000 stones and I kill you, I should get all of your stones but only up to 1000.

perfect balance
risk reward for both players

Farorin

I wish they upped it back to 100%.

Sure it sucks when you lose a bunch, just yesterday I lost over 3k stones total in my play time, despite only dying a few times, but that's just how it goes.

It is literally one of the few really good things about IC, is the excitement generated by the risk/reward.

Artjuh90

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

You talk about risk, but for who? Almost none of the gankers I actually manage to kill are carrying any stones. Where is the risk for THEM? They just show up and steal from grinders and then *poof* into thin air.

This.
There's 0 risks for gankers, even if they die, they wont even need to pay for repairs.
If a pve farmer dies, he basically loses the time he spent on farming. Considering that most of IC gankers are cowardly players who will only land killing blow when the mobs did the most of the job, this is just stupid.
I dont consider IC to be fully-fledged pvp zone, its just weird hybrid that promotes griefing.

If you are being killed by one guy lurking in stealth waiting for an opportunity to kill you, why are you not grouped with players you can communicate with? Did you have a healer near by? IC promotes group play, it even rewards small group play with greater stone multiplayer relative to time it takes to farm.

What is it about the zone that makes you think it's an efficient place to farm solo??

challenge and fun. i like playing IC solo.
so do i like playing solo in craglorn only IC has beter rewards and exp

Borgenaattori

If it is possible, farm telvars quiet times like early mornings, try to find not so popular farming spots. Farm in districts and wipe yourself after you have 1-2k telvars. Thats fast way to save them, in my opinion gankers are not so big problem. Challenge is good in imperial city. I am quite average PvP player but in IC my skills has improved a lot because there is so much one one one matches. I have lost telvars A LOT, but also i have got savings. System is fair and gives same opportunity to all players.

GreenSoup2HoT

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

It's even worse when you have multiple adds on you and they gank you its a really unfair system!.

You can always lay down traps!

SirDopey

Hahah, nah nah. It's working just fine as it is, 100% could work too

Spliffo

It should still be 100%. They gave The PVE community a way to obtain VR16 materials with Orsinium so plz stop trying to eliminate the PvP from our PvP dlc.

Before I get accused of being a ganker, my game hub says Iv gained 300k+ stone and I would have only kept maybe 60-70k of that so Iv lost my fair share to buy would still ask ZOS to revert the system back to 100% lose. This is my favourite dlc and the zone I spend most of my time playing in

Emma_Overload

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I just want to say that I enjoy the system the way it is simply because it works. It Incentivizes' group play, communication, awareness and planning. Without any risk all you would have is what occurs in the arena district during prime time, a cluster f**k.
I also feel the structure would benefit from MORE risk, not less. Hear me out. At the moment the most boring and counter productive thing in the sewers IMO is the cheap and easy suicide option. This effecient means of banking stones means that you never have the option to earn your stones back. If players had to run the stones home to bank them it would give much more excitement, more reason to group up small scale, and a chance to have your stones earned back by cutting them off on their way back to the base.

Get me unstuck and suicide should not be most effecient way to "earn" stones.

You talk about risk, but for who? Almost none of the gankers I actually manage to kill are carrying any stones. Where is the risk for THEM? They just show up and steal from grinders and then *poof* into thin air.

If anything, ZOS needs to makes changes that even the odds for the victims:

1) Make Sigils available for gold at reasonable price.

2) Make Sigils work IMMEDIATELY so that you can't be ganked while using them.

3) Change doors and gates so that they can be used in combat and work immediately.

4) Provide safe spaces in your own faction's sewer system that give PvP immunity, but only to members of that faction.

These changes would only be a START to addressing the massive imbalances that favor gankers over grinders! What we really need is a separate IC campaign just for PvE. They can give the MOBS 80% of my stones in order keep the "risk vs. reward" balance.

If one could not simply *poof* from the sewers at least you would have a chance at earning your stones back.

You will have to elaborate on what you refer to as a ganker, because to be ganked you need to be outnumbered as far as I unterstand it.

When I say "poof", I'm referring to the fact that most of these guys are Nightblades who use Cloak to move through the sewers undetected.

Basically, I define a ganker as anybody who goes into another faction's section of the sewer and kills players for their stones. They typically run in groups of 2 to 4, but there are plenty of them who run solo, too. If they are stam builds, they use a lot of gap closers and Wrecking Blows or Surprise attacks. If they are magicka builds, the dangerous ones tend to rely on Detonation and Bats.

If you drop a lot of stones (1000+), they never seem to stick around to see if you come back for revenge. Instead, you see them again 10 or 15 minutes later when you've built up another stash of stones

It sounds like you are getting outplayed tbh. Do you play in a group yourself? A well organised group doesn't fear 2-4 nightblades. I'm honestly not trying to sound cocky or condescending, I just really enjoy the gameplay involved in the sewers. And I feel like you and many others would enjoy it a lot more too if you played in an organized group.

P.S I always have my radiant magelight up, I can't count how many times nightblades have tried to run past me and been killed by my group.

No, I almost always play solo. Sometimes I'll join one other guy, but playing in a group larger than that kills your loot and XP gain. Those big groups you see only earn 1000 stones in the same amount of time I can grind 3000, and that's not even counting all the time they spend just standing around in the base camp waiting for whatever.

I use Radiant Magelight from time to time, but I hate losing the 5% max Magicka, so I usually stick with Inner Light. The range is small anyway, and it doesn't really solve the biggest problem in PvP, which is getting perma-stunned by gap closers and WB.

I understand that your advice is meant to be helpful, but a lot of the things PvP players do to be effective just gimps a PvE grinding build. I've struggled for months to build something that can do both, and it's really hard if not impossible.

The other problem is that PvP requires more than just a build, it requires that the player be FOCUSED on finding and fighting other players, not mobs. Even if I became the "perfect" PvP player, I would be miserable because I wouldn't be accomplishing any of my goals in the game. This is why I really think there should be a separate IC campaign for PvE only.

SirDopey

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

You talk about risk, but for who? Almost none of the gankers I actually manage to kill are carrying any stones. Where is the risk for THEM? They just show up and steal from grinders and then *poof* into thin air.

This.
There's 0 risks for gankers, even if they die, they wont even need to pay for repairs.
If a pve farmer dies, he basically loses the time he spent on farming. Considering that most of IC gankers are cowardly players who will only land killing blow when the mobs did the most of the job, this is just stupid.
I dont consider IC to be fully-fledged pvp zone, its just weird hybrid that promotes griefing.

If you are being killed by one guy lurking in stealth waiting for an opportunity to kill you, why are you not grouped with players you can communicate with? Did you have a healer near by? IC promotes group play, it even rewards small group play with greater stone multiplayer relative to time it takes to farm.

What is it about the zone that makes you think it's an efficient place to farm solo??

Hmmm. As a ganker myself, I would like to give a bit of a disclaimer to comments like these to the PVE audience. Don't feel safe just because you are in a group, and don't think for a second that's going to save your hide. My biggest hiests have, without a doubt, come from groups. Someone falls slightly behind, whack them and disappear before the group finds you (its not uncommon to stalk a group for 5 or so minutes figuring out who the weak ones are). While groups can add a safety factor - they are also easier to track, far more careless and are likely to have stones (which means if a solo ganker can't get you, he/she will come back with more).

My best advice, spend a couple of nights ganking other PVE'rs and try escaping, once you figured out how to escape with your heist it becomes much easier to defend you're own stones when you have them

darkashley1

As a pvper and pver most people that farm IC are there to get mats or level pvpers that go there go to steal said players stone and most times harder for people to find a group that's not going to lure you into ambush for your stones.

code65536

Solariken wrote: »

I feel like it should be 100%, but only up to 100% of the stones that the killer is carrying. So for example, if I am carrying 1000 stones and I kill you, I should get all of your stones but only up to 1000.

There is a downside to this, though. A few weeks ago, someone ganked me while I was doing a daily quest in IC. I immediately released and started to hunt him down. I ended up getting all my stones back from him.

"Up to the amount you're carrying" would screw over people who just lost everything and are trying to get it back.

DRXHarbinger

Apex Predators like me are around every corner, but seriously I notice most of the people I gank are always sprinting around, stop rushing, kill the ads and back in stealth, I just wait for your health bar to drop and then ambush combo and you're gone, it doesn't matter if you're in a group or not, if you are then I'll pick off the straggler at the back, he'll be dead before back up arrives and I'm long gone ( or waiting nearby to ambush the res for more stonage)

A better safeguard isn't to carry a healer with you, but a NB friend, someone who cannot be seen so easily and not expected by many of the pro gankers out there, I once had some kid pay me with an Aorc Motif to accompany him round out of group (so he got 100% of the stones ) and just protect him, you'd be amazed how weak some gankers actually are.

x_Nathan_F

Jaronking wrote: »

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

Why do you lose 80%? This is way to much you run around with a group and lose pretty much all of them because of gankers, which means time wasted. This isn't a QQ thread it's just that 80% is to much what about 50%?

Hey it could be way worst so stop crying.At least you keep something from dying.

Read again, I am not crying I am stating facts and its worse not "worst".

Solariken wrote: »

I feel like it should be 100%, but only up to 100% of the stones that the killer is carrying. So for example, if I am carrying 1000 stones and I kill you, I should get all of your stones but only up to 1000.

This
I cannot tell you how many gankers come down with 0 Tel vars, I mean why should we lose tel vars if they can't.

SirDopey

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Apex Predators like me are around every corner, but seriously I notice most of the people I gank are always sprinting around, stop rushing, kill the ads and back in stealth, I just wait for your health bar to drop and then ambush combo and you're gone, it doesn't matter if you're in a group or not, if you are then I'll pick off the straggler at the back, he'll be dead before back up arrives and I'm long gone ( or waiting nearby to ambush the res for more stonage)

A better safeguard isn't to carry a healer with you, but a NB friend, someone who cannot be seen so easily and not expected by many of the pro gankers out there, I once had some kid pay me with an Aorc Motif to accompany him round out of group (so he got 100% of the stones ) and just protect him, you'd be amazed how weak some gankers actually are.

ohhh, I like this. Definite opportunity here.....

EnemyOfDaState

IC is a risk reward system with no worthwhile rewards. I really don't understand the appeal.

x_Nathan_F

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

IC is a risk reward system with no worthwhile rewards. I really don't understand the appeal.

I personally use them for the materials(Repora's, Ancestor silk etc) however you are correct it would be nice to see Design wax, Kutas, Tempering alloys and Perfect Roe's to make it more rewarding.

lathbury

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

Why do you lose 80%? This is way to much you run around with a group and lose pretty much all of them because of gankers, which means time wasted. This isn't a QQ thread it's just that 80% is to much what about 50%?

your looking at this wrong you gain 80% when you kill someone

x_Nathan_F

lathbury wrote: »

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

Why do you lose 80%? This is way to much you run around with a group and lose pretty much all of them because of gankers, which means time wasted. This isn't a QQ thread it's just that 80% is to much what about 50%?

your looking at this wrong you gain 80% when you kill someone

I had exactly 1000 got ganked ended up with 200 you sure?

MishMash

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

It's even worse when you have multiple adds on you and they gank you its a really unfair system!.

I second that

lathbury

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

Why do you lose 80%? This is way to much you run around with a group and lose pretty much all of them because of gankers, which means time wasted. This isn't a QQ thread it's just that 80% is to much what about 50%?

your looking at this wrong you gain 80% when you kill someone

I had exactly 1000 got ganked ended up with 200 you sure?

yep sounds like someone gained 80%. Im all for the 100% of the stones carried idea though the problem being that as someone said it limits the possibility of getting your stones back to only being able to get 20% back if you find them.

Molec

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

Why do you lose 80%? This is way to much you run around with a group and lose pretty much all of them because of gankers, which means time wasted. This isn't a QQ thread it's just that 80% is to much what about 50%?

your looking at this wrong you gain 80% when you kill someone

I had exactly 1000 got ganked ended up with 200 you sure?

Its actually 90% TV to the PVP player who killed you if he landed all the killing blows, It drops the more damage you take from mobs. So you taking home 20% shows you was taking some damage from mobs before being killed by the enemy player.

NeillMcAttack

SirDopey wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

You talk about risk, but for who? Almost none of the gankers I actually manage to kill are carrying any stones. Where is the risk for THEM? They just show up and steal from grinders and then *poof* into thin air.

This.
There's 0 risks for gankers, even if they die, they wont even need to pay for repairs.
If a pve farmer dies, he basically loses the time he spent on farming. Considering that most of IC gankers are cowardly players who will only land killing blow when the mobs did the most of the job, this is just stupid.
I dont consider IC to be fully-fledged pvp zone, its just weird hybrid that promotes griefing.

If you are being killed by one guy lurking in stealth waiting for an opportunity to kill you, why are you not grouped with players you can communicate with? Did you have a healer near by? IC promotes group play, it even rewards small group play with greater stone multiplayer relative to time it takes to farm.

What is it about the zone that makes you think it's an efficient place to farm solo??

Hmmm. As a ganker myself, I would like to give a bit of a disclaimer to comments like these to the PVE audience. Don't feel safe just because you are in a group, and don't think for a second that's going to save your hide. My biggest hiests have, without a doubt, come from groups. Someone falls slightly behind, whack them and disappear before the group finds you (its not uncommon to stalk a group for 5 or so minutes figuring out who the weak ones are). While groups can add a safety factor - they are also easier to track, far more careless and are likely to have stones (which means if a solo ganker can't get you, he/she will come back with more).

My best advice, spend a couple of nights ganking other PVE'rs and try escaping, once you figured out how to escape with your heist it becomes much easier to defend you're own stones when you have them

I agree with this to a point actually, except, i'm not a "PvE'r". Laying mines in every tunnel, Caltrops at exits, and Radiant Magelight, Means that smart players, players that look out for each other, and are experienced in the sewers do not get picked off.

MishMash

it is always those that run up ahead of crown or the fat kids in the back that cause our groups trouble. However, those that do not get the bloodlust and can stay on crown we seem to do very well.

Jaronking

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

Why do you lose 80%? This is way to much you run around with a group and lose pretty much all of them because of gankers, which means time wasted. This isn't a QQ thread it's just that 80% is to much what about 50%?

Hey it could be way worse so stop crying.At least you keep something from dying.

Read again, I am not crying I am stating facts and its worse not "worst".

Solariken wrote: »

I feel like it should be 100%, but only up to 100% of the stones that the killer is carrying. So for example, if I am carrying 1000 stones and I kill you, I should get all of your stones but only up to 1000.

This
I cannot tell you how many gankers come down with 0 Tel vars, I mean why should we lose tel vars if they can't.

It sounds like crying to me.Check again I think your mistaken.

Sorry but that's just stupid if they do that they should just allow you to keep your all your stones when you die.Thats what your basically asking for.If we did that most people will barely every lose Stones and their no Risk involved for anyone

x_Nathan_F

Jaronking wrote: »

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

Why do you lose 80%? This is way to much you run around with a group and lose pretty much all of them because of gankers, which means time wasted. This isn't a QQ thread it's just that 80% is to much what about 50%?

Hey it could be way worse so stop crying.At least you keep something from dying.

Read again, I am not crying I am stating facts and its worse not "worst".

Solariken wrote: »

I feel like it should be 100%, but only up to 100% of the stones that the killer is carrying. So for example, if I am carrying 1000 stones and I kill you, I should get all of your stones but only up to 1000.

This
I cannot tell you how many gankers come down with 0 Tel vars, I mean why should we lose tel vars if they can't.

It sounds like crying to me.Check again I think your mistaken.

Sorry but that's just stupid if they do that they should just allow you to keep your all your stones when you die.Thats what your basically asking for.If we did that most people will barely every lose Stones and their no Risk involved for anyone [/quote

I checked again and I wasn't crying and I'm terrible and maths but i suggested a 50% loss which is means you lose 50% not all