x_Nathan_F wrote: »

Why do you lose 80%? This is way to much you run around with a group and lose pretty much all of them because of gankers, which means time wasted. This isn't a QQ thread it's just that 80% is to much what about 50%?

Originally, it was 100%. As in, "the real Dark Souls starts here," kind of system.

I feel like it should be 100%, but only up to 100% of the stones that the killer is carrying. So for example, if I am carrying 1000 stones and I kill you, I should get all of your stones but only up to 1000.

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

It's even worse when you have multiple adds on you and they gank you its a really unfair system!.

You just gotta outplay the gankers. I have no problems with gankers though, hardly ever see any. Probably cause they too scared to even try

Solariken wrote: »

I feel like it should be 100%, but only up to 100% of the stones that the killer is carrying. So for example, if I am carrying 1000 stones and I kill you, I should get all of your stones but only up to 1000.

I could live with this.

If a Ganker tried to Gank me, he'd have to wager his TV Stones against mine. If I win the fight I get his TV Stones (up to the # I have on me).

Right now it's an "I assume no risk, let's see what you have..." system that is completely whack (IMO).

Solariken wrote: »

I feel like it should be 100%, but only up to 100% of the stones that the killer is carrying. So for example, if I am carrying 1000 stones and I kill you, I should get all of your stones but only up to 1000.

I really like this ideal ^^

I like the system! While it is annoying to lose 80% of your stones sometimes, that is what makes the sewers so exciting to play. Greed is always what bites me in the ass. I get to 1000 stones and then think hey its quite I'll go for 1500 then 2000 and then wham I loose it all. If you want stones I feel you got to pick slower times on the servers. Late night or early morning or role with a group. Sometimes the ganker is who gets greedy and you can get your stones back plus a few. If I find myself at times when the ganker's are rolling heavy in my spots I just leave my stones and start trying to hunt them down. I don't kill very many of them I just enjoy them getting 0 stones from me.

I like the up to how much you're carrying system. It makes sense IMHO.

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I just want to say that I enjoy the system the way it is simply because it works. It Incentivizes' group play, communication, awareness and planning. Without any risk all you would have is what occurs in the arena district during prime time, a cluster f**k.
I also feel the structure would benefit from MORE risk, not less. Hear me out. At the moment the most boring and counter productive thing in the sewers IMO is the cheap and easy suicide option. This effecient means of banking stones means that you never have the option to earn your stones back. If players had to run the stones home to bank them it would give much more excitement, more reason to group up small scale, and a chance to have your stones earned back by cutting them off on their way back to the base.

Get me unstuck and suicide should not be most effecient way to "earn" stones.

You talk about risk, but for who? Almost none of the gankers I actually manage to kill are carrying any stones. Where is the risk for THEM? They just show up and steal from grinders and then *poof* into thin air.

If anything, ZOS needs to makes changes that even the odds for the victims:

1) Make Sigils available for gold at reasonable price.

2) Make Sigils work IMMEDIATELY so that you can't be ganked while using them.

3) Change doors and gates so that they can be used in combat and work immediately.

4) Provide safe spaces in your own faction's sewer system that give PvP immunity, but only to members of that faction.

These changes would only be a START to addressing the massive imbalances that favor gankers over grinders! What we really need is a separate IC campaign just for PvE. They can give the MOBS 80% of my stones in order keep the "risk vs. reward" balance.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I just want to say that I enjoy the system the way it is simply because it works. It Incentivizes' group play, communication, awareness and planning. Without any risk all you would have is what occurs in the arena district during prime time, a cluster f**k.
I also feel the structure would benefit from MORE risk, not less. Hear me out. At the moment the most boring and counter productive thing in the sewers IMO is the cheap and easy suicide option. This effecient means of banking stones means that you never have the option to earn your stones back. If players had to run the stones home to bank them it would give much more excitement, more reason to group up small scale, and a chance to have your stones earned back by cutting them off on their way back to the base.

Get me unstuck and suicide should not be most effecient way to "earn" stones.

You talk about risk, but for who? Almost none of the gankers I actually manage to kill are carrying any stones. Where is the risk for THEM? They just show up and steal from grinders and then *poof* into thin air.

If anything, ZOS needs to makes changes that even the odds for the victims:

1) Make Sigils available for gold at reasonable price.

2) Make Sigils work IMMEDIATELY so that you can't be ganked while using them.

3) Change doors and gates so that they can be used in combat and work immediately.

4) Provide safe spaces in your own faction's sewer system that give PvP immunity, but only to members of that faction.

These changes would only be a START to addressing the massive imbalances that favor gankers over grinders! What we really need is a separate IC campaign just for PvE. They can give the MOBS 80% of my stones in order keep the "risk vs. reward" balance.

If one could not simply *poof* from the sewers at least you would have a chance at earning your stones back.

You will have to elaborate on what you refer to as a ganker, because to be ganked you need to be outnumbered as far as I unterstand it.

^ Me taking all your stones ^

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I just want to say that I enjoy the system the way it is simply because it works. It Incentivizes' group play, communication, awareness and planning. Without any risk all you would have is what occurs in the arena district during prime time, a cluster f**k.
I also feel the structure would benefit from MORE risk, not less. Hear me out. At the moment the most boring and counter productive thing in the sewers IMO is the cheap and easy suicide option. This effecient means of banking stones means that you never have the option to earn your stones back. If players had to run the stones home to bank them it would give much more excitement, more reason to group up small scale, and a chance to have your stones earned back by cutting them off on their way back to the base.

Get me unstuck and suicide should not be most effecient way to "earn" stones.

You talk about risk, but for who? Almost none of the gankers I actually manage to kill are carrying any stones. Where is the risk for THEM? They just show up and steal from grinders and then *poof* into thin air.

If anything, ZOS needs to makes changes that even the odds for the victims:

1) Make Sigils available for gold at reasonable price.

2) Make Sigils work IMMEDIATELY so that you can't be ganked while using them.

3) Change doors and gates so that they can be used in combat and work immediately.

4) Provide safe spaces in your own faction's sewer system that give PvP immunity, but only to members of that faction.

These changes would only be a START to addressing the massive imbalances that favor gankers over grinders! What we really need is a separate IC campaign just for PvE. They can give the MOBS 80% of my stones in order keep the "risk vs. reward" balance.

If one could not simply *poof* from the sewers at least you would have a chance at earning your stones back.

You will have to elaborate on what you refer to as a ganker, because to be ganked you need to be outnumbered as far as I unterstand it.

When I say "poof", I'm referring to the fact that most of these guys are Nightblades who use Cloak to move through the sewers undetected.

Basically, I define a ganker as anybody who goes into another faction's section of the sewer and kills players for their stones. They typically run in groups of 2 to 4, but there are plenty of them who run solo, too. If they are stam builds, they use a lot of gap closers and Wrecking Blows or Surprise attacks. If they are magicka builds, the dangerous ones tend to rely on Detonation and Bats.

If you drop a lot of stones (1000+), they never seem to stick around to see if you come back for revenge. Instead, you see them again 10 or 15 minutes later when you've built up another stash of stones

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

You talk about risk, but for who? Almost none of the gankers I actually manage to kill are carrying any stones. Where is the risk for THEM? They just show up and steal from grinders and then *poof* into thin air.

This.
There's 0 risks for gankers, even if they die, they wont even need to pay for repairs.
If a pve farmer dies, he basically loses the time he spent on farming. Considering that most of IC gankers are cowardly players who will only land killing blow when the mobs did the most of the job, this is just stupid.
I dont consider IC to be fully-fledged pvp zone, its just weird hybrid that promotes griefing.

If you are being killed by one guy lurking in stealth waiting for an opportunity to kill you, why are you not grouped with players you can communicate with? Did you have a healer near by? IC promotes group play, it even rewards small group play with greater stone multiplayer relative to time it takes to farm.

What is it about the zone that makes you think it's an efficient place to farm solo??

Could you please stop making assumptions about me?
I dont have any personal interest in IC as I have 7 vr16 chars already (8th is a crafter), and full vr16 sets of gear as well as decent amount of gold. Also I have no interest in pvping here, since ganking pvers =/= pvp, its just griefing. But not having personal interest doesnt mean that I cant point out design flaws.
IC (like some other places in Cyro) is a very good place for leveling (even solo), and the best place for farming materials (just compare easily obtainable tel vars with scarce vr15-16 nodes in Wrothgar). Unfortunately, its the worst designed area of the game, because it encourages griefing and toxic behavior. Why? Its simple, really. Risk vs reward systems only work if they, well, both risky and rewarding for all who participate. In case of IC, gankers do not risk anything, why should they get high rewards? Imo game shoudnt encourage this kind of thing. IC "pvp" mostly has nothing to do with pvp, there's no objectives, no arenas, no nothing, just robbing pvers.
Pve zone with a bit of pvp wouldnt be a bad idea imo if it woudnt include looting other players. In Cyrodiil, for example, pve player can be killed, but they wont lose anything valuable. In IC, developers basically offered pvers the role of cannon fodder.
Imo, IC has 2 main issues:
1) It lacks actual pvp activities, even though it should be a perfect place for "capture a flag" missions or pvp arena.
2) It promotes griefing.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

You talk about risk, but for who? Almost none of the gankers I actually manage to kill are carrying any stones. Where is the risk for THEM? They just show up and steal from grinders and then *poof* into thin air.

This.
There's 0 risks for gankers, even if they die, they wont even need to pay for repairs.
If a pve farmer dies, he basically loses the time he spent on farming. Considering that most of IC gankers are cowardly players who will only land killing blow when the mobs did the most of the job, this is just stupid.
I dont consider IC to be fully-fledged pvp zone, its just weird hybrid that promotes griefing.

If you are being killed by one guy lurking in stealth waiting for an opportunity to kill you, why are you not grouped with players you can communicate with? Did you have a healer near by? IC promotes group play, it even rewards small group play with greater stone multiplayer relative to time it takes to farm.

What is it about the zone that makes you think it's an efficient place to farm solo??

Could you please stop making assumptions about me?
I dont have any personal interest in IC as I have 7 vr16 chars already (8th is a crafter), and full vr16 sets of gear as well as decent amount of gold. Also I have no interest in pvping here, since ganking pvers =/= pvp, its just griefing. But not having personal interest doesnt mean that I cant point out design flaws.
IC (like some other places in Cyro) is a very good place for leveling (even solo), and the best place for farming materials (just compare easily obtainable tel vars with scarce vr15-16 nodes in Wrothgar). Unfortunately, its the worst designed area of the game, because it encourages griefing and toxic behavior. Why? Its simple, really. Risk vs reward systems only work if they, well, both risky and rewarding for all who participate. In case of IC, gankers do not risk anything, why should they get high rewards? Imo game shoudnt encourage this kind of thing. IC "pvp" mostly has nothing to do with pvp, there's no objectives, no arenas, no nothing, just robbing pvers.
Pve zone with a bit of pvp wouldnt be a bad idea imo if it woudnt include looting other players. In Cyrodiil, for example, pve player can be killed, but they wont lose anything valuable. In IC, developers basically offered pvers the role of cannon fodder.
Imo, IC has 2 main issues:
1) It lacks actual pvp activities, even though it should be a perfect place for "capture a flag" missions or pvp arena.
2) It promotes griefing.

What is griefing? Losing at a video game causes grief..... I don't understand. I find it exciting having a lot of stones on me, my Mage light stays up, my senses are heightened, I'm staying close to my team, we are communicating, it's fun. When we acquire a lot of stones sometimes we will choose to run them back to base, why, because it's fun and exciting. And the multiplier is your friend. Do I lose a lot of stones sometimes? Sure, Do I feel grief when It happens. Hardly.